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Thread: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

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    H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Hasselblad.com has no information about the 31 DB in their website.
    Is this a special product to slowdown the Phase One with P30+ with the very similar product which has no backup in the official product list or what?
    Thanks to GetDPI, that the information is being available from users or agents.

    On the other hand, there is no information on the Phase One site that the
    P30+ becomes a dedicated back once its initialized. Is this correct? This may be my misunderstanding from one of the posts in this forum. If so, how come it is an open design, while H3DII-DB is a dedicated one?

    I'm about to place an order for a camera in a few days, and I will appreciate any information, regarding especially the comment for the P30+

    Best regards,

    Seyhun
    H3DII-31, 5DII, M8, NEX-3 and Camera collection
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    Hasselblad.com has no information about the 31 DB in their website.
    Is this a special product to slowdown the Phase One with P30+ with the very similar product which has no backup in the official product list or what?
    Thanks to GetDPI, that the information is being available from users or agents.

    On the other hand, there is no information on the Phase One site that the
    P30+ becomes a dedicated back once its initialized. Is this correct? This may be my misunderstanding from one of the posts in this forum. If so, how come it is an open design, while H3DII-DB is a dedicated one?

    I'm about to place an order for a camera in a few days, and I will appreciate any information, regarding especially the comment for the P30+

    Best regards,

    Seyhun
    All the technical information for H3D cameras and backs is located under "Downloads" in the Hasselblad top menu:

    Here's a direct link to what you are looking for I think:

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/9...tasheet_uk.pdf

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/926484/uk_h3dii.pdf

    There also full operational manuals for each camera, but you have to register with Hasselblad to get at them. Here's a link to the H3D-II supliment but I am not sure you'll be able to access it:

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/9...plement_v6.pdf

    Hope this helps ...

    -Marc

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Never heard of a P30 plus a dedicated back once its initialized. They come in different mounts if that is the meaning.

    http://www.phaseone.com/upload/p30pl...asheet_005.pdf
    http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1di...y%20chart.aspx
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Seyhun,
    Not sure what you mean by dedicated back once initialized? Phase One backs are made for a specific mount at the factory. You can switch it to other bodies of the same mount with no problems.
    Are you referring to the Hasselbald that is mated to a specific body?
    Lance
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    I must have misinterpreted the following sentence in fotografz's message elsewhere in the forum:

    Quote:
    "BTW: yes, the H3D system is a closed one and dedicated to the H3 camera it comes on, or can be used on a technical camera. However, the CF line of backs is not closed, nor is the H2F camera. If I recall correctly, the Phase One backs are integrated dedicated mounts, and once you make your choice of camera, only work on that specified camera model, or a technical camera ... just like the H3Ds."
    Unquote.

    I was misled possibly by this sentense. I knew that the Phase One backs are fully interchangable (of course using different mounts that you can purchase later on-using camera bodies listed), and Lance's message below confirms that. Just to take my worries away, you may like to reconfirm my statement. As a hobby, I may like to use the DB on many other cameras that are on the list for P30+.

    Coming back to the issue of company websites, I still have to say that the sites do not include much detailed technical information, and even the links given above are not really beyond any sales catalog type of information. Hasselblad gives more information about the body than the DB, and both companies try to write as little as possible, IMO. Even a Canon 450D site has more information than both regarding their CCD.

    Thanks for your replies.

    Best regards,

    Seyhun

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Seyhun,
    Not sure what you mean by dedicated back once initialized? Phase One backs are made for a specific mount at the factory. You can switch it to other bodies of the same mount with no problems.
    H3DII-31, 5DII, M8, NEX-3 and Camera collection
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Lance,

    Thanks for your reply. This means that I may have 2 ..say... AFDII cameras, and I can use the back with eiether of these. BUT, I can't use it wirh a RB67, is that correct? (I have the RB67 lenses as well, but don't see any advantage except for a hobby, to get thre DB back for that)

    In the case of Hasselblad, I can't use it even with my second H3D body (I can't afford it anyway) let alone other brands..

    What happens with the Sinar alternative? (I can't afford it also, but just to clarify the technical things a little bit more?). Of course you don't need to reply about the Sinar, but Thierry may be interested to reply for this one.

    Best regards,

    Seyhun



    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Seyhun,
    Not sure what you mean by dedicated back once initialized? Phase One backs are made for a specific mount at the factory. You can switch it to other bodies of the same mount with no problems.
    Are you referring to the Hasselbald that is mated to a specific body?
    Lance
    Lance Schad
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    305-394-3196 cell | 305-534-5702 office
    Capture Integration
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    H3DII-31, 5DII, M8, NEX-3 and Camera collection
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Seyhun,
    You may also use the PhaseOne P sereis backs on specialty cameras such as ALPA's,Cambo's,Horsemans and use the battery that is attached to the digital back(standard canon type battery)to power it.
    On the H3D digital backs you must use their imagebank with battery attached since it the digital back gets its power from the grip on the camera body while it is attached.
    Just another thing to keep in mind if you plan to use the back on other cameras.
    Lance

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    Lance,

    Thanks for your reply. This means that I may have 2 ..say... AFDII cameras, and I can use the back with eiether of these. BUT, I can't use it wirh a RB67, is that correct? (I have the RB67 lenses as well, but don't see any advantage except for a hobby, to get thre DB back for that)

    In the case of Hasselblad, I can't use it even with my second H3D body (I can't afford it anyway) let alone other brands..

    What happens with the Sinar alternative? (I can't afford it also, but just to clarify the technical things a little bit more?). Of course you don't need to reply about the Sinar, but Thierry may be interested to reply for this one.

    Best regards,

    Seyhun

    Seyhun:

    Just a few clarifications -

    You can indeed use the digital magazine from one H3D on another "H3" body. It will work, and if you like, you can have Hasselblad calibrate the bodies so that sensor aware placement position is identical (this allows for Ultra Focus technology to work on each). The cost of a backup H3 body is $3,250 versus $4,450 for a backup Mamiya 645AFDIII body (I am also a Mamiya dealer).

    Also, while the H3DII does draw power from the H grip (which is actually quite nice, as it leaves one less battery to have to keep up with), for view camera work the ImageBank performs well, and will hold between 1,000 and 2,000 images (depending on sensor resolution). I even have a wedding shooter who captures with an H3D-31 that uses the ImageBank because he doesn't wish to mess with CF cards continuously filling up.

    You mention you can't afford Hasselblad or Sinar, and yet their products cost no more than than Phase One or Leaf. I'm curious why you feel that way.

    For the ultimate in flexibility, Sinar/Hasselblad cannot be matched. Both systems offer user changeable interface kits. While it is true you can change the mount with Phase One and Leaf, you can't have two mounts at the same time, with the exception of a few camera adapters (RZ, Fuji 680, etc).

    Steve Hendrix
    www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    I must have misinterpreted the following sentence in fotografz's message elsewhere in the forum:

    Quote:
    "BTW: yes, the H3D system is a closed one and dedicated to the H3 camera it comes on, or can be used on a technical camera. However, the CF line of backs is not closed, nor is the H2F camera. If I recall correctly, the Phase One backs are integrated dedicated mounts, and once you make your choice of camera, only work on that specified camera model, or a technical camera ... just like the H3Ds."
    Unquote.

    I was misled possibly by this sentense. I knew that the Phase One backs are fully interchangable (of course using different mounts that you can purchase later on-using camera bodies listed), and Lance's message below confirms that. Just to take my worries away, you may like to reconfirm my statement. As a hobby, I may like to use the DB on many other cameras that are on the list for P30+.

    Coming back to the issue of company websites, I still have to say that the sites do not include much detailed technical information, and even the links given above are not really beyond any sales catalog type of information. Hasselblad gives more information about the body than the DB, and both companies try to write as little as possible, IMO. Even a Canon 450D site has more information than both regarding their CCD.

    Thanks for your replies.

    Best regards,

    Seyhun
    Yes, you did misinterpret ... The mount on a Phase One is an integrated "MOUNT", not a system of different adapters like used for a Hasselblad CF or Sinar digital back. You cannot use a Phase One on a Mamiya and then turn around and instantly put it on a Hasselbald 503CW for example.

    As stated by Steve, backs on the H3D backs can be swapped out to different H3 bodies, but to maximize all the integrated features that the H3D camera/back offers, it's better to have them calibrated to one standard.

    If you want to use one digital back on many different Medium Format cameras then there are the CF backs from Hasselblad using a system of iAdapters ... OR the Sinar backs
    which also use different adapters to fit an array of Medium Format cameras.

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Thanks for your clarifications. These were very helpful indeed, which are actually the detailed information MISSING in most company websites, and I was complaining about these.

    Despite my great respect to all camera and DB manufacturers, I can't resist asking a few questions like:

    - How come and why a 36x48 mm sensor is called FF? In my film days, it was closer to 45X60 mm.
    - If Hasselblad H3DII-XX has a dedicated DB, then why don't we call PhaseOne camera a dedicated one also? It sure is. Once you buy it!
    - Is an (app) 750 EU adaptor that Hasselblad offers to use the existing V lenses may be truly called a backwards compatibility? Or is it more like using a M42/EOS adaptor on Canon cameras?

    There are so many other points not clear on the websites, and I think the competitive MFDB era is just beginning, (and that times have changed since the 1970's, regarding policies, and points like these.).

    Fortunately, this forum is possibly the best on the whole web, since actual users and agents co-exist here. That's how at least was able to make a decision. I was planning to buy a Mamiya ZD at first, and see now the point where I was able to come. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante). I could have done it with only USD 9,500.-!! But I'm much happier now despite the fact that the budget is twice that amount.

    I'm sure that a lot of professionals and hobbyists, will switch back to MF. all of the products in the MF are superior in many ways (except for the size and weight).

    Thanks to you all. Sincerely.
    I was like this.. And still is, even after making the decision.

    Best regards, Seyhun






    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, you did misinterpret ... The mount on a Phase One is an integrated "MOUNT", not a system of different adapters like used for a Hasselblad CF or Sinar digital back. You cannot use a Phase One on a Mamiya and then turn around and instantly put it on a Hasselbald 503CW for example.

    As stated by Steve, backs on the H3D backs can be swapped out to different H3 bodies, but to maximize all the integrated features that the H3D camera/back offers, it's better to have them calibrated to one standard.

    If you want to use one digital back on many different Medium Format cameras then there are the CF backs from Hasselblad using a system of iAdapters ... OR the Sinar backs
    which also use different adapters to fit an array of Medium Format cameras.
    H3DII-31, 5DII, M8, NEX-3 and Camera collection
    http://seyhun.com
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    Thanks for your clarifications. These were very helpful indeed, which are actually the detailed information MISSING in most company websites, and I was complaining about these.

    Despite my great respect to all camera and DB manufacturers, I can't resist asking a few questions like:

    - How come and why a 36x48 mm sensor is called FF? In my film days, it was closer to 45X60 mm.
    - If Hasselblad H3DII-XX has a dedicated DB, then why don't we call PhaseOne camera a dedicated one also? It sure is. Once you buy it!
    - Is an (app) 750 EU adaptor that Hasselblad offers to use the existing V lenses may be truly called a backwards compatibility? Or is it more like using a M42/EOS adaptor on Canon cameras?

    There are so many other points not clear on the websites, and I think the competitive MFDB era is just beginning, (and that times have changed since the 1970's, regarding policies, and points like these.).

    Fortunately, this forum is possibly the best on the whole web, since actual users and agents co-exist here. That's how at least was able to make a decision. I was planning to buy a Mamiya ZD at first, and see now the point where I was able to come. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante). I could have done it with only USD 9,500.-!! But I'm much happier now despite the fact that the budget is twice that amount.

    I'm sure that a lot of professionals and hobbyists, will switch back to MF. all of the products in the MF are superior in many ways (except for the size and weight).

    Thanks to you all. Sincerely.
    I was like this.. And still is, even after making the decision.

    Best regards, Seyhun
    Seyhun

    Number one I think the whole issue of calling something FF is just a hangover to the past sizes of the 135mm format i.e. 24 x 36mm. It is totally arbitrary but in the 135 world people can now use their legacy lenses at the field of view which was available for film and folks are more comfortable with that.

    Number 2 I believe that, for a fee, owners of Phase One backs can have a new mount put on if they change their minds about which camera body system they are going to use. I am not sure of this as I shoot with the H3DII-39 where the back works only with the H3 bodies or technical cameras.

    I have quite a kit of legacy V lenses and all of them work perfectly with the V Adapter for the H3 body. Of course it requires a cable between the H3 body and the lens but that is no big deal at all. Obviously there is no auto focus and you have to set both the aperture and shutter speed on the lens. But focus confirmation is available and accurate making manual focus a snap. And the metering works perfectly so at least you know how to set up the lens for your desired situation. The adapter is very expensive but isn't that the way for all things Medium Format!!! LOL

    Woody

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    If you buy a value added warranty with a Phase One Back you get a free swap to a different system within your three year warranty. If you start say with Mamiya and decide to switch to Hassy you can have that done within your three year warranty. There are other benefits also to this value added warranty besides this and will let the Phase folks describe all that if needed
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Dear Seyhun,

    let me answer this one.

    First of all I believe that there is some confusion about "dedicated" mount and interchangeable adapters.

    - a back with a dedicated mount can be called a back with a dedicated adapter. This adapter is fixed and cannot be taken away by the customer. In consequence, if you wish e.g. to use your PO with a Mamiya 645 mount on a Hasselblad V, or on a Hasselblad H1/H1, or on a Contax 645, or on any other camera platform which does not have the same attachment as your Mamiya 645, you HAVE TO change this back against another one with the right mount, let's say for a Contax 645: this means you have to send it to factory for a swap, since you cannot do it yourself. In case of PO you can buy an added value warranty which allows to swap for another back with another mount one time within 3 years from purchase date. From there you have again a back which will fit only one camera platform, in this case the Contax.

    - a back with interchangeable adapters is the exact opposite: the user can take away the adapters by means of 3 or 4 screws to open, and replace it by the adapter of his choice for the camera of its choice. It is a matter of a couple of minutes to change this adapter. Thus you can buy adapters for all common MF platforms and use the very same back on any of these cameras, any time you wish it. The Sinar adapters for the eMotion backs costs from Euro 365.- (adapter for the Sinar Hy6) to Euro 1'130.- (adapter for the Rolleiflex 6008).

    Finally, you mention that you cannot afford it: I would suggest you to check the back prices. You shall notice that Sinar is not more expensive, in most cases. If you find a price quote where it is significantly more expensive it has usually to do with the warranty period: Sinar is offering a standard 3-year warranty on all its digital backs (and cameras or lenses and accessories), ALWAYS included in your purchase price.

    If you have any other question, don't hesitate.

    Best regards,
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post

    What happens with the Sinar alternative? (I can't afford it also, but just to clarify the technical things a little bit more?). Of course you don't need to reply about the Sinar, but Thierry may be interested to reply for this one.

    Best regards,

    Seyhun

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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Yes prices are not as bad as they look too. Check with your dealers on any one of your choice and get a quote. Seems to be some promotions going on all the time. BTW check the commercial vendor area also. Dealers are allowed to post there promotional items in there.

    Side note dealers that was not a request , get in there and post your items. LOL
    Seriously hoping you guys can post that stuff , we put it there so make use of the space.
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    Re: H3DII-31- and Phase One P30+ DB information

    Quote Originally Posted by s.agar View Post
    Thanks for your clarifications. These were very helpful indeed, which are actually the detailed information MISSING in most company websites, and I was complaining about these.

    Despite my great respect to all camera and DB manufacturers, I can't resist asking a few questions like:

    - How come and why a 36x48 mm sensor is called FF? In my film days, it was closer to 45X60 mm.
    - If Hasselblad H3DII-XX has a dedicated DB, then why don't we call PhaseOne camera a dedicated one also? It sure is. Once you buy it!
    - Is an (app) 750 EU adaptor that Hasselblad offers to use the existing V lenses may be truly called a backwards compatibility? Or is it more like using a M42/EOS adaptor on Canon cameras?

    There are so many other points not clear on the websites, and I think the competitive MFDB era is just beginning, (and that times have changed since the 1970's, regarding policies, and points like these.).

    Fortunately, this forum is possibly the best on the whole web, since actual users and agents co-exist here. That's how at least was able to make a decision. I was planning to buy a Mamiya ZD at first, and see now the point where I was able to come. "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante). I could have done it with only USD 9,500.-!! But I'm much happier now despite the fact that the budget is twice that amount.

    I'm sure that a lot of professionals and hobbyists, will switch back to MF. all of the products in the MF are superior in many ways (except for the size and weight).

    Thanks to you all. Sincerely.
    I was like this.. And still is, even after making the decision.

    Best regards, Seyhun
    Some of these questions have already been answered, but the one about the CF Adapter wasn't.

    The CF Adapter allows use of all C, CF ,CFi and CFE Zeiss leaf shutter lenses on a Hasselblad 645 H body. You cannot use F or FE lenses designed for the 200 series Hasselblad cameras ... the H camera is a Leaf Shutter camera and the shutter is in the lens ... the 200 series cameras are Focal Plane shutter cameras, and the shutter is in the camera ... lenses for these cameras do not have shutters in the lenses ... the F designation on these lenses stands for Focal Plane.

    The CF Adapter allows true backwards compatibility with legacy Zeiss optics because it is fully automatic in operation. Unlike most adapters which are "dumb", the CF provides fully automatic stop down metering and shooting. It provides a thumb lever to re-cock the Zeiss C lens internal leaf shutter after shooting. Ingenious actually.

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