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Thread: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

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    Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    what exactly will happen, besides the potential color shift that can't be corrected using the LCC tool? Better still, can anybody point me to / send me a photo illustrating exactly what untoward effects I can expect to occur?

    The reason I'm asking is because I want to add a tech camera to my arsenal, but I can't afford to do so and upgrade to a P45+ at the same time. I've had some success using a Mamiya 50mm PC lens on my Contax (via a Hasselblad adapter), but I want a wider FoV than it provides. And because most of my photography is done at night and converted to B&W, I'm wondering if the color-shift issue will really matter that much for my purposes, especially since the only movement I need is a bit of rise/fall so I can crop foregrounds...

    Any input will be greatly appreciated!

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    P30+ & Schneider 35XL - falloff:

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    Thanks, Thomas! To be honest, though, that isn't necessarily a problem for me, as the skies in my photos are always dark, if not black or very nearly so, hence a bit of vignetting may not matter very much...

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm strongly against trying to use a P30+ with a tech camera. Even moderate movements with even moderately wide angle lenses will result in severe fall off (or just pure black depending on the extent), possible image artifacts (waviness in areas of continuous tone), and severe color cast.

    Lenses designed for a medium format body (such as the Mamiya 50mm shift or Hartblei 45mm) are far less probleatic since they are mounted away from the back. Of course such lenses cannot compare in optical quality to the Schneider/Rodenstock lenses.

    Applications like tabletop/still-life usually use longer lenses with bellows draw (closer focus brings the lens further from the back) and are therefore also less problematic.

    But for wide angle work with movements the P30+ is just not the right tool.

    Maybe your dealer could find a way to change you to a P45 or P45+ for a reasonable cost. You'd lose a bit on shot-to-shot speed and a stop of ISO, but you'd gain in resolution, FOV (larger sensor) and would have no concerns about using any view camera, tech camera, or other movement based system.

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    Thanks, Thomas! To be honest, though, that isn't necessarily a problem for me, as the skies in my photos are always dark, if not black or very nearly so, hence a bit of vignetting may not matter very much...
    well, then you can as well use your 645 camera without movements and just add some black in the sky area in Photoshop :-)

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm strongly against trying to use a P30+ with a tech camera. Even moderate movements with even moderately wide angle lenses will result in severe fall off (or just pure black depending on the extent), possible image artifacts (waviness in areas of continuous tone), and severe color cast.
    I understand what light fall off and color casts look like, but I'm curious as to how "waviness in areas of continuous tone" might affect an image ... is there an example of this you can point me to?

    Lenses designed for a medium format body (such as the Mamiya 50mm shift or Hartblei 45mm) are far less probleatic since they are mounted away from the back. Of course such lenses cannot compare in optical quality to the Schneider/Rodenstock lenses.
    I understand this, too, and as you suggest, my experience with them has not been as problematic as I had been lead to believe would be the case. Ditto for the various lenses I use with my medium-format Toyo 23G view camera, which although non-retrofocus designs, were likewise sourced from various older medium-format cameras (Hasselblad SWC, Polaroid 600SE, Graflex XL), and while maybe not the last word in resolution, actually work surprisingly well. Unfortunately, the Toyo 23G isn't rigid enough to work with a digital back in the field, which is why I've been considering various tech camera alternatives, and I have no experience with the modern-day Schneider/Rodenstock lenses that go hand-in-hand with them, so I do appreciate your perspective on this...

    But for wide angle work with movements the P30+ is just not the right tool.
    Got it.

    Maybe your dealer could find a way to change you to a P45 or P45+ for a reasonable cost. You'd lose a bit on shot-to-shot speed and a stop of ISO, but you'd gain in resolution, FOV (larger sensor) and would have no concerns about using any view camera, tech camera, or other movement based system.
    Well, Steve is working on this for me, as my plan was to upgrade to a P45+ first and then eventually acquire a tech camera. It's just that the little bit of experimentation I've done recently with my P30+ mounted on my Toyo 23G has caused me to ponder whether I can get away with reversing this order. Apparently not, though ... at least not if I plan to use modern lenses with it.

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    well, then you can as well use your 645 camera without movements and just add some black in the sky area in Photoshop :-)
    Doh! Why didn't I think of that?

    (Actually, I have done it with a few images, although I much prefer to do so in-camera, where I can judge the effect pre-exposure, than in post-processing.)

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    Re: Okay, I've read all the warnings about using a P30+ with movements, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by thomas View Post
    well, then you can as well use your 645 camera without movements and just add some black in the sky area in Photoshop :-)
    T...h...o...m...a...s... :={)

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