IQ180 vs. Leaf Aptus II 12?

[coulombic]

All right. . .after seeing the sample shots from the IQ180, I've started considering the replacement of my venerable P65+. My question is this -- is there ultimately any difference at all between the IQ of the 180 and the Leaf? They're using identical sensors with no AA filters, and 16-bit color-depth, so I am under the impression that the files, themselves, will be identical.

Now, I do realize that the IQ180 has all sorts of whiz-bang features, and the most awesomest LCD ever made, and such, but aside from these features, is there really anything to justify the extra $14k price premium?

Has anyone directly compared an IQ180 with the APTUS-II 12? Are there actually any differences in DR, noise, sharpness, and or color rendition?

Thoughts?

 

[stephengilbert]

Is the price difference so great if you're trading in a P65+?

 

[coulombic]

The price difference is quite substantial. To trade in my P65+ for an APTUS II 12, it's less than $6k. For the IQ180, I'm looking at closer to $15k. To me, this is a pretty substantial difference.

 

[stephengilbert]

By "so great," I was referring to your originally mention difference of $14k; I wasn't suggesting that the cost of either upgrade wasn't a lot of money.

 

[Jack]

I think it's safe to assume that Phase is keeping three distinct product lines; one line without all the bells and whistles but with the current sensors in the Leaf backs; and then another line with some bells and whistles, but not all of the latest sensors in the P series backs; then a more top line with bells and whistles and current sensors in the IQ backs. My guess is longer term the P series will drop out when the 80MP sensor becomes the entry-level chip, leaving the basic Leaf line and the bells and whistles IQ line as your choices.

 

[stephengilbert]

So Jack, will that make the P45+ a collector's item?

 

[Audii-Dudii]

So Jack, will that make the P45+ a collector's item?

If the long-exposure capability in the upcoming and future generations of backs continues to be limited to a minute or so, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if this does happen...

Although a birdie has told me there is new firmware being tested that may extend this out to several minutes, and if it works, then who knows?

 

[coulombic]

I think it's safe to assume that Phase is keeping three distinct product lines; one line without all the bells and whistles but with the current sensors in the Leaf backs; and then another line with some bells and whistles, but not all of the latest sensors in the P series backs; then a more top line with bells and whistles and current sensors in the IQ backs. My guess is longer term the P series will drop out when the 80MP sensor becomes the entry-level chip, leaving the basic Leaf line and the bells and whistles IQ line as your choices.

So, you're inferring, as well, that the Aptus II 12 is, by image quality standards, the same as the IQ180, due to the fact that it has the same sensor?

Has anyone had any experience with the 80Mp Aptus?

 

[Jack]

So, you're inferring, as well, that the Aptus II 12 is, by image quality standards, the same as the IQ180, due to the fact that it has the same sensor?

I'm not implying anything about image quality and won't until I have a chance to compare production versions of both backs side-by-side. At that point in time, I'll gladly report my findings along with supporting images to back them up

 

[Jack]

So Jack, will that make the P45+ a collector's item?

Go ahead and laugh, but I think the P45+ is still a very viable back --- in fact, I'd love to have one as my second... Heck, I wouldn't mind a P25+ as my second!

 

[coulombic]

Go ahead and laugh, but I think the P45+ is still a very viable back --- in fact, I'd love to have one as my second... Heck, I wouldn't mind a P25+ as my second!

Agreed -- the P45+ would make for an awesome second back. If for no other reason than the long-exposure capabilities.

 

[Anders_HK]

I think it's safe to assume that Phase is keeping three distinct product lines; one line without all the bells and whistles but with the current sensors in the Leaf backs; and then another line with some bells and whistles, but not all of the latest sensors in the P series backs; then a more top line with bells and whistles and current sensors in the IQ backs. My guess is longer term the P series will drop out when the 80MP sensor becomes the entry-level chip, leaving the basic Leaf line and the bells and whistles IQ line as your choices.

Would it not make sense from a sales point for Phase One to release Aptus-III with similar to IQ technology but implemented in Leaf's way... say within a year or two??? ... and lower price than IQ series.

 

[gazwas]

Would it not make sense from a sales point for Phase One to release Aptus-III with similar to IQ technology but implemented in Leaf's way... say within a year or two??? ... and lower price than IQ series.

As Phase own Leaf, it would make sense for Phase to make the IQ series the Porsche 911 of the digi back market and the Aptus III the Cayman/Boxster. Both would share many similar parts and are equally brilliant but one ever so limited by its engineering to be never quite as quick/technologically advanced.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

It's pretty simple Phase has 3 lines of products Mamiya, Leaf and Phase. The Phase will be there top end feature set even though they share the same sensor with Leaf on the IQ180 and Aptus 12 they also support different and the same platforms also. On the Phase IQ since Jack and I did test it you are paying for the tech over and above the Leaf. The feature sets are in a class on there own and for me worth the extra tech costs. Not that the Leaf is bad in anyway shape or form it just does not have the IQ feature sets and some shooters may not want that as well. The idea here is to serve the market as best it can to us the end user. By spreading out the 3 lines it fills all the gaps in the price category. Also the P series will not share the IQ series either it will remain in the lower feature set of the IQ. Hate the analogy but just like buying a Mercedes or Porsche and BMW. You will have a 3 series a 5 series and a 7 series BMW type line. Mamiya will be the VW. LOL Hey I own a VW so don't laugh. The real question of the day is simply are the feature sets worth that extra cost, if you ask me it is a big YES but that is me. I'm most likely doing a lateral to the IQ 140 and only reason is for the feature sets . I get nothing else from the sensor. Like anything else you have to justify the costs to the end use for you the shooter. It will make you no more money but for me this is a want that boarders on the need as it does help my shooting life with the features. I justified this to myself since I feel the tech will actually help me the shooter an in turn that will make my life a better place to be. Like anything else price or costs take a secondary place to what is more important to you.

 

[Anders_HK]

Now come on folks I really do not believe your logics fly...

... as a Leaf user I much want an updated similar to IQ interface and technology BUT implemented LEAF;s way, not Phase One. And for less $$ than an IQ back

I am certain there must be more folks in market...

Read larger screen and different feature set. A tad slower is fine, but live view for tech cameras, live exposure stops info, e.g. highlight and shadow etc... and the lovely Leaf histogram... :thumbs:

 

[gazwas]

I think that would be fabulous but can't help the feeling that Phase wants to position themselves as the cream (most expensive) of the digi back world. AKA Hasselblad during the 80's.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Bingo

 

[lance_schad]

The way I am experiencing this while doing a quite a few demonstrations on the IQ180 (prototype) and the Aptus II 12 this week is, that there are simply those who want the resolution , but don't need all the bells and whistles.

I have met with a variety of types of photographers and I can sum it up simply like this.

The studio professionals who soot tethered the majority of the time who were really excited about the IQ when walking through the door loved it, but then when we put the Aptus II 12 on the tripod and took the same shot, they saw virtually the same file @ $12k, less and most said "I really don't need the display because I shoot tethered, I don't really need USB3 and some of the other great features, but were torn with Sensor+". Sensor+ on this large of a sensor is very useful because the files are humungous! They also experienced the tethered live preview was a little better on the Leaf in Capture One, and also more of an improvement in Leaf Capture.

The location shooters (Architectural, Landscape, Social) felt the opposite in most instances the were all over the IQ even with the the price premium because they loved the all the features especially the display. Being able to check focus at 100%, the tilt sensors and the concept of live view on the back itself.

Heck they both shoot to Capture One , so the shooting part was seamless,a s well as the processing and editing between the two systems. Of course with Leaf you have the added benefit of using their excellent legacy Leaf Capture Software.

They are both supported by PhaseOne as a company and us as a reseller which handles both lines is a big plus since they could compare them side by side. So either way they were feeling very comfortable and impressed with the both systems overall. There is also huge support network out and installed base of both Leaf and Phase worldwide.

From what I saw the file quality (mind you the IQ is a prototype) looked virtually identical , but the color was different. That is because Leaf and Phase One used different color tables. It was not that one of them had better color. It is like what has been discussed here before Leaf and Phase have their own characteristic looks.

I feel that this is great time for the photo industry because there are more options available at a variety of pricing levels.

Just like Guy mentioned its similar to the auto industry, you can get a Toyota or a Lexus , they may both share the same engine and get you from point a to point b , but it is the amenities that are different. So options are good.

Lance

 

[jlm]

could someone clarify:

does the aptus 12, 80 mp have the rotating LCD?
does it have the zoom/focus check feature, and if so how well does it work using the LCD?

 

[yaya]

could someone clarify:

does the aptus 12, 80 mp have the rotating LCD?
does it have the zoom/focus check feature, and if so how well does it work using the LCD?

The AFi-II/ Hy6 version has both the tilt screen and the rotating sensor. The R version (V mount) has the rotating sensor only (no tilt screen)

The Contax, H and Phase/ Mamiya backs have neither a tilt screen nor a rotating sensor

All models offer 1:1 zoom (AFAIK the only camera in the world that does it on the actual RAW file with/ without sharpening)

IMBO on a tech camera (or on AFi/ Hy6) the AFi-II 12 is the most advanced DB money can buy these days, and the sales figures so far seem to support this

Yair