Then it may be perfect for your needs.
Not sure if it smokes the H4D 40 overall....but Phase seems to have the best upgrade program.
Bob
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Would you buy a P45+ now?
- Thread starter Jeffg53
- Start date
Not sure if it smokes the H4D 40 overall....but Phase seems to have the best upgrade program.
Bob
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Almost every camera I've ever used produces moderate noise at it's longest possible exposure. In fact that's the point. The longest possible exposure is determined by asking the question "when will the noise pass the 'acceptable' mark". In fact, if a system were to have no meaningful noise at it's longest allowed exposure length my first question would be "why not allow the user to expose longer??".
I have not yet myself tested long exposures using the new firmware on our S2, but as a rule of thumb I would encourage anyone who needs long exposure to do their own testing and rely on nothing else. "no noise" in capital letters for the longest allowed exposure is a statement I would be extremely skeptical of for any camera and furthermore comes with no (very important) information about detail-retention and noise-reduction (whether applied by the user or in the camera) or about temperature.
Anyway, thats more of a quibble of words/phrasing than anything substantial ("no noise" vs. "very good noise/detail characteristics" or whatever), and Leica extending the long exposure capability of the S2 is great news.
Also, for someone commenting about it earlier at the bottom of this link is a temperature-versus-exposure-length guide for the P45+.
http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/phase-one-tech-specs/
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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Last edited:
Well I just did for my Hassy V system and it's terrific:
http://www.rgaphoto.com/2011Yosemite/content/Yosemite_2011_CF055757BW_Master2_large.html
Couldn't be happier. Selling my film, scanner, jobo whatever. Digital is different, but I can create my vision with it now. No doubts...
So I guess I voted with my wallet.
Bob
http://www.rgaphoto.com/2011Yosemite/content/Yosemite_2011_CF055757BW_Master2_large.html
Couldn't be happier. Selling my film, scanner, jobo whatever. Digital is different, but I can create my vision with it now. No doubts...
So I guess I voted with my wallet.
Bob
2jbourret
New member
I'm new here, but have been watching (lurking) from the wings, and am struggling with more or less the same question as the OP. I've recently added a Cambo WDS to my kit, almost entirely for landscape work (a small portion of my work is architecture) and I use the Cambo with a P30, which is less than ideal due to the limitations on shifts and tilt.
I'd been thinking that the P45+ would be the ideal upgrade, but along comes the IQ series back, and now I'm in a quandary:
P45+: long exposure capability (which I'd never really felt I needed shooting with a Phamiya), and larger frame.
IQ40: 40 - 60 sec. Exposure limit, frame (slightly) smaller than the P30, but with a phenomenal screen for gauging focus, exposure, composition, and w/ live view.
I doubt I'll ever want to use a ground glass for focusing/composition, so the display features of the IQ are really, really appealing. But on the other hand, the large frame and long exposure features of the P45+ have made it the standard for landscape/arch work.
Opinions?
I'd been thinking that the P45+ would be the ideal upgrade, but along comes the IQ series back, and now I'm in a quandary:
P45+: long exposure capability (which I'd never really felt I needed shooting with a Phamiya), and larger frame.
IQ40: 40 - 60 sec. Exposure limit, frame (slightly) smaller than the P30, but with a phenomenal screen for gauging focus, exposure, composition, and w/ live view.
I doubt I'll ever want to use a ground glass for focusing/composition, so the display features of the IQ are really, really appealing. But on the other hand, the large frame and long exposure features of the P45+ have made it the standard for landscape/arch work.
Opinions?
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
In my opinion the frame size of the P30 and P40 are effectively identical.
The horizontal direction of the P40+ is 0.13mm less on the left and 0.13mm less on the right, or in other words is 99.4% the size of, the P30.
Or put differently on a very large four foot print above an architect's desk it would be an eighth of an inch less on the left, and an eighth of an inch less on the right.
Trust me I understand that in your line of work that even a very small crop could mean that, with your back up against a (literal) wall you can't get the shot you need. But this isn't even a "very small" crop - its a mathematically non-zero, but completely insignificant amount.
I would put that difference completely out of your head and think about the other points you mentioned which will have a significant impact on your workflow.
For instance the jump from a P30 to a P45 frame size is not huge, but for sure can make the difference on a tight interior or restricted-access exterior (e.g. where backing up 2 more feet would put you in the middle of the air).
On the other hand with a P40+ you could stitch with lenses like the Rodenstock 28mm, Schneider 35mm*, Schneider 43mm, and Schneider 47mm to get far wider fields of view than a single frame. We have a stitching calculator we use for our customers to help us easily calculate lens equivalence with and without stitching.
Hard choices you have ahead of you!
*Note the Schneider 35mm and a P40 are not 100% friends and with larger movements you can get banding in continous tone areas.
Phase One Tech Specs (for easy reference). Note the sensor dimensions are rounded to three significant figures.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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Agree with Doug with a couple of added thoughts:
1. These days if you REALLY find your back up against the wall, you can stitch. With major overlap in 2 frames you can certainly increase your coverage significantly.
2. You stated you'll never use a focusing screen. So you will either shoot tethered, have your lenses extremely well calibrated, focus/aperture bracket or have an LCD that you can use to check fine focus detail. To me this requirement demands the IQ screen if you don't/can't use the other options and makes your decision pretty simple (if money is not a variable in your decision).
I went through the same agonizing, except it was a little easier because money was a variable. Good luck!
Bob
1. These days if you REALLY find your back up against the wall, you can stitch. With major overlap in 2 frames you can certainly increase your coverage significantly.
2. You stated you'll never use a focusing screen. So you will either shoot tethered, have your lenses extremely well calibrated, focus/aperture bracket or have an LCD that you can use to check fine focus detail. To me this requirement demands the IQ screen if you don't/can't use the other options and makes your decision pretty simple (if money is not a variable in your decision).
I went through the same agonizing, except it was a little easier because money was a variable. Good luck!
Bob
2jbourret
New member
Thanks Doug, Bob,
So the P/IQ40 will have effectively the same frame size as the P30, and I'm not unhappy with the frame crop of the P30, so I'm OK w/ that, especially w/ stitching. I'm currently using the 47 xl, so w/ either P45 or the IQ40, I'll have much greater shift range than w/ the P30, with which I find I can successfully shift to about 7mm right and left using LCC's.
Bob, I'd never say never, but I'm really uncomfortable with removing and switching out the back in the field to use a ground glass, and obviously tethering while out on long hikes is not an option. Do you use a GG, and does it work out for you while in variable conditions in the field? I can see from your images that you like bad weather as much as I do, and having to take a back off and find a safe place for it while focusing seems to me to be a formula for disaster.
As for long exposures, I'm not a night shooter, but I do work into deep twilight, and I do like creamy whitewater. I certainly use ND and GND filters, but with the 47xl (no center filter), I've not yet exceeded a 10 sec. Exposure. I'd like to know what other's experiences are on this. With wider lenses, shifts, and tilts, using a center filter, are 30+ sec. exposures at twilight common?
Thanks!
So the P/IQ40 will have effectively the same frame size as the P30, and I'm not unhappy with the frame crop of the P30, so I'm OK w/ that, especially w/ stitching. I'm currently using the 47 xl, so w/ either P45 or the IQ40, I'll have much greater shift range than w/ the P30, with which I find I can successfully shift to about 7mm right and left using LCC's.
Bob, I'd never say never, but I'm really uncomfortable with removing and switching out the back in the field to use a ground glass, and obviously tethering while out on long hikes is not an option. Do you use a GG, and does it work out for you while in variable conditions in the field? I can see from your images that you like bad weather as much as I do, and having to take a back off and find a safe place for it while focusing seems to me to be a formula for disaster.
As for long exposures, I'm not a night shooter, but I do work into deep twilight, and I do like creamy whitewater. I certainly use ND and GND filters, but with the 47xl (no center filter), I've not yet exceeded a 10 sec. Exposure. I'd like to know what other's experiences are on this. With wider lenses, shifts, and tilts, using a center filter, are 30+ sec. exposures at twilight common?
Thanks!
Jeff,
I do use ground glass.
With the Hassy 500 series I don't have to take the back on and off unless I change from landscape to portrait modes.
With the Hassy Flexbody, which uses GG, I do have to take the back off each time I move to a different venue.
On the Linhof 4x5 same as the Flexbody; the back comes off and on at each different venue.
I did not use the back in the middle of the snowstorm in Yosemite. I wouldn't use it even if I didn't have to take it on and off. Neither the Hassy nor the back are described as weather resistant. I used my Canon 1DsMk III which is wonderfully weather resistant. I also attach a golf umbrella to my tripod and put my camera bag under the legs of the tripod. Even this was somewhat ineffective with wet snow blowing sideways!
But I have absolutely no qualms about using the back in the field. I have a blow bulb and, if really necessary, a cleaning brush if the dust is visible to my naked eye. And using LCC in the field and in Capture 1/6 helps a lot with dust.
Bottom line, even if I had an IQ I think I would be taking the back on and off just as much. But it would be REALLY nice to be able to check critical focus which I cannot do until I'm back at my computer. No matter how good the GG is calibrated, focusing is difficult. I would love to have an IQ screen just for that.
Hope this helps,
Bob
I do use ground glass.
With the Hassy 500 series I don't have to take the back on and off unless I change from landscape to portrait modes.
With the Hassy Flexbody, which uses GG, I do have to take the back off each time I move to a different venue.
On the Linhof 4x5 same as the Flexbody; the back comes off and on at each different venue.
I did not use the back in the middle of the snowstorm in Yosemite. I wouldn't use it even if I didn't have to take it on and off. Neither the Hassy nor the back are described as weather resistant. I used my Canon 1DsMk III which is wonderfully weather resistant. I also attach a golf umbrella to my tripod and put my camera bag under the legs of the tripod. Even this was somewhat ineffective with wet snow blowing sideways!
But I have absolutely no qualms about using the back in the field. I have a blow bulb and, if really necessary, a cleaning brush if the dust is visible to my naked eye. And using LCC in the field and in Capture 1/6 helps a lot with dust.
Bottom line, even if I had an IQ I think I would be taking the back on and off just as much. But it would be REALLY nice to be able to check critical focus which I cannot do until I'm back at my computer. No matter how good the GG is calibrated, focusing is difficult. I would love to have an IQ screen just for that.
Hope this helps,
Bob