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Thread: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    As a predominately tech camera shooter using a P40+ today I've been enticed by the new review features and superior LCD of the IQ series backs with the IQ140 being the one that's within my budget at this time. However, I've noticed that there seem to be some attractive used P65+ backs showing up at about the same cost as the IQ140, plus new/used Aptus II 10's for the same or less.

    This introduces a new dynamic into the decision process for me as there are advantages with the larger sensor backs in so far I could avoid some lens purchases that I've been budgeting for at the wide end (Alpa SK 28mm and/or Mamiya/Phase One 28D) which get very expensive as super wides. Sticking with a 35mm at the wide end (which I already have) with a full frame sensor back gives me the same FoV as a 28mm with my current P40+ or pending IQ140. The extra resolution isn't that important to me vs the larger coverage, although it is a nice benefit. Costs for me look very similar, and even attractive when the lenses are added into the equation.

    I'm sure I can't be alone as a crop sensor user looking at the IQ upgrades. Thoughts on the relative upgrade merits?
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 7th April 2011 at 08:03.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    I was in a similar quandary to you for use on a tech camera.

    New IQ 140 or as new, very low actuations with warranty dealer ex-demo P65+.

    Was a no brainer to me..... P65+. I looked at P40/P65 12 months ago and decided I didn't want to live with a crop sensor especially as I was going down the tech cameras route. Couldn't afford a P65+ as they were 27,000 + VAT (UK 17.5%) so gave up.

    Thanks to the IQ's that, over night rendered the P+ backs useless, I just go myself a P65+ for cheaper than the price on an new IQ140. The difference 12 months makes, BRILLIANT!

    While the screen would be amazing the other tech in the IQ's sound a bit flakey at present in conjunction with a CCD chip (live view). You also got to remember P65+ puts out the identical file info as an IQ160..... Bargain.

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I was in a similar quandary to you for use on a tech camera.

    New IQ 140 or as new, very low actuations with warranty dealer ex-demo P65+.

    Was a no brainer to me..... P65+. I looked at P40/P65 12 months ago and decided I didn't want to live with a crop sensor especially as I was going down the tech cameras route. Couldn't afford a P65+ as they were 27,000 + VAT (UK 17.5%) so gave up.

    Thanks to the IQ's that, over night rendered the P+ backs useless, I just go myself a P65+ for cheaper than the price on an new IQ140. The difference 12 months makes, BRILLIANT!

    While the screen would be amazing the other tech in the IQ's sound a bit flakey at present in conjunction with a CCD chip (live view). You also got to remember P65+ puts out the identical file info as an IQ160..... Bargain.
    While I completely agree with your choice, as far as the P65+, I think it's too soon to tell if the files from the IQ160 will be the same as the P65+. Certainly, it's the "same" sensor, but same treatment in-camera? This remains to be seen.

    Regardless, I think it's a no-brainer to go with the P65+. It's a fantastic camera; sure, the LCD sucks, but the images more than compensate for it.

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by coulombic View Post
    Certainly, it's the "same" sensor, but same treatment in-camera? This remains to be seen.
    Well I judged it by all the updates C1 got specifically for the P65+ when it came out that most of the magic is done in Capture One. So, considering the P65+ and IQ160 are identical Dalsa chips if there are any differences its nothing a firmware update to the P+ backs (still selling and supporting them) won't fix.

    I would argue its a bit much to assume a change in chassis would have any effect on the quality of the output at all but who knows......

    We're all winners IMO with P's or IQ's!

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I was in a similar quandary to you for use on a tech camera.

    New IQ 140 or as new, very low actuations with warranty dealer ex-demo P65+.

    Was a no brainer to me..... P65+. I looked at P40/P65 12 months ago and decided I didn't want to live with a crop sensor especially as I was going down the tech cameras route. Couldn't afford a P65+ as they were 27,000 + VAT (UK 17.5%) so gave up.

    Thanks to the IQ's that, over night rendered the P+ backs useless, I just go myself a P65+ for cheaper than the price on an new IQ140. The difference 12 months makes, BRILLIANT!
    That's what I'm seeing also. A new P65+ was completely beyond what I'm prepared to spend and well outside my comfort zone. However, the better deals appearing make it within grasp used and in fact a new Aptus II 10 is also doable, and in some ways possibly more attractive. I haven't seen an ex-demo deal like yours yet but that sounded like a killer deal.

    The other considerations for me are the 4:3 vs 3:2 aspect ratios of the Aptus vs P65+, Sensor+ with the P65+ and the superior ergonomics (IMHO) of the Leaf platform vs P+. Now of course the IQ160 is the best of all worlds but it's out of reach for my budget plus if it were in budget then I'd be having the IQ160 vs Aptus II 12 discussion instead of the IQ140 vs P65+/II 10!

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    While the screen would be amazing the other tech in the IQ's sound a bit flakey at present in conjunction with a CCD chip (live view). You also got to remember P65+ puts out the identical file info as an IQ160..... Bargain.
    I'm actually very happy with my P40+ image quality-wise although I have no love for the LCD. However, as much as I don't think it's great, it really isn't a problem either! The Aptus II 10's LCD does have a strong appeal as I do also use an Aptus 65 and I like that a lot, particularly on the Alpa.

    Hmm.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    We're all winners IMO with P's or IQ's!
    I knew there was a reason my parents told me to mind my P's & (I)Q's.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Graham,
    I'm in exactly the same situation as you, Alpa and IQ140 on order. I currently use a P40+ loaner. I understand exactly what you're saying about the P65+ and Aptus-II 10. A difficult choice. At the moment I'm sticking with the IQ140 and hoping it's all it's supposed to be. Also note that while it's the same sensor as the P40+ everything inside is new, all the electronics is a redesign. We will see if it matters of course. If the new features of the IQ140 fail to persuade me, I figure I can sell it early on and get into a used P65+. At least I hope so.

    I'm already feeling the "weight" of the P40+ files on my MacBook Pro, especially when stitching and using Helicon. I know it will be a lot worse with the P65+, and I'm not sure I need that problem at this point.

    Cheers, -Peter

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    It is really i difficult decision, i am looking for to get into Phase One as well, but i have H4D-60, so i feel maybe i will go with IQ140 + tech camera, if i have too much money i may think about IQ180, but having both backs at same mp will not give me more options, so either getting less mp with features like maybe longer exposure and higher ISO or getting more mp even not much with ISO and SS, getting another 60mp back making me to think that i bought 2 same backs.
    Tareq

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    My choice no question going for the tech in the IQ. Yes the 60 mpx is better but the P40 sensor is nothing to sneeze at. In practice which the IQ is with me all week it is just a world of difference finally seeing and confirming what you are doing. From my seat as a Pro the confirmation of I got it is just more important than shear mpx. But I would still no question love to have the bigger sensor because there is a detail difference too. Again the NEED question mark is a big call on the decision and I can certainly see folks having a split decision here.

    I'm actually sitting here waiting to hear my pricing on upgrade or lateral as we speak. So yes I will be looking in the mirror as well. Face lift or Complete new face. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Guy - it'll be interesting to get your full feedback after using the back for another week. You'll have to update the review with your more extended experiences. The tech upgrades on the IQ are definitely the kicker for me for my tech cam use and that's why I decided to join the upgrade queue for the IQ140, especially since I'm very happy with 40mpx actually and don't feel challenged in that regard. Having a big bright accurate 100% view of what I've shot with focus confirmation and potentially some form of limited live view for composition without add on viewfinders are definitely the biggest things I'm looking for from the upgrade. It's a little easier for me to cross-grade since I have my Aptus as the trade in and so I know what my upgrade price is, regardless of what I do with my P40+.

    The bigger sensor benefit though is at the wide end of my glass, although there are definitely advantages with the crop sensor staying in the sweet spot of the lenses plus offering more movements for shift/rise on the Alpa. If I'm honest with myself I'd end up adding the 28mm for the 645DF regardless of whether I used a crop sensor or full frame sensor. With the Alpa it's more of a case of just deciding when to man up to getting something wider than my 47mm and how wide that should be given that movements pretty much go out the window at that point.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Having a big bright accurate 100% view of what I've shot with focus confirmation and potentially some form of limited live view for composition without add on viewfinders are definitely the biggest things I'm looking for from the upgrade.
    I can fully appreciate the screen for 100% focus check but if the focus conformation works like in C1 (contrast) I can't see it being much good for anything outside people shots. For my interiors (so I guess that would apply to landscape) the focus check just doesn't work that great and picks up random items in the scene depending on their contrast. Also if the live view is just like the C1 version, unless your in ideal controlled studio lighting the live view is rubbish. I imaging in bright outdoor lighting there would be no way to bring down the brightness without stoping down (pointless for focus check) or using an ND filter.

    It will be interesting to see all this tech when it finally launches and see if it works as we all want....... Sure Hope so

    For me the bigger sensor with slightly more detail was more important than the sexy features but would have liked both...... Maybe next time.

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    For me the bigger sensor with slightly more detail was more important than the sexy features but would have liked both...... Maybe next time.
    This is the area where the Aptus II 10 has some appeal. The LCD isn't super bright but there is a decent shade solution available. This renders the preview from raw and so does a better job than the phase one mushy display.

    So, give us Leaf display and UI capabilities on a back with sensor+ and faster processing and ... damn, there's that IQ again.

    I hear you about the focus check/live view. I definitely need to see how well they work before getting too excited about them. As you say, the focus check can be hit & miss in C1 depending upon scene content. I tweak the threshold to get a slightly better view but it isn't definitive by any means. The live view capability usefulness will also be heavily dependent upon the impact on battery life too.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: IQ series upgrade choice vs larger sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    This is the area where the Aptus II 10 has some appeal. The LCD isn't super bright but there is a decent shade solution available. This renders the preview from raw and so does a better job than the phase one mushy display.
    Yep, the Leaf does look like a really nice solution but the 10's aspect ratio was a bit wierd to me and like you the 12 was way out of my comfort zone price wise.

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