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Thread: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

  1. #101
    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Jim,
    If you are thinking Pentax 645D go look at theses images on this thread over at the pentad forum:

    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...ghts-645d.html

    The camera is very capable, in the right hands of course, the biggest challenge is finding lenses for it. Mostly used eBay stuff, some new "old stock"
    But... if you are willing to go this route, you can save a lot of money, and even though there are very few 645D shooters here on GETDPI, I don't think anyone here can say that the body is not an excellent camera for 10K.
    Nothing can touch it at that price in MF. A used P30+ back with warranty is 8-9K I believe, and then you have to get the DF body, another 5700 or so..

    Steven.
    ps. Signing up for one of Guy and Jacks workshop is an excellent idea, They have all the "toys" and you can see for yourself if MF is something you even want to venture into at any price point

    Also keep in mind I am sure Canon and Nikon have some higher MP cameras coming out soon, that maybe in the hi 30MP range, though then I think you would be forced to buy all manual focus zeiss glass that can deliver the resolution for so many pixels.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    Maybe I should go check out Pentax 645D vs Phaseone P40+ threads. Maybe for a hobbyist, a Pentax 645D is good enough, gives me the pleasure of taking photos and ability to print big-ish, either way, a significant step up in quality from 1ds3........... and at $15-$20K (with lenses) - relatively a pocket change compared to P40+, rm3di and lenses (28K). I guess I need to think through the lenses combinations here.

    The advantage of pentax being its weather sealing, great battery life, hand holdability, a lot less 'surprises'/unknowns (to me) than Phase system. Except that I'll have to use auto focus instead of manual focusing that I'm used to. eeek!

    .....still thinking...............
    Steven Kornreich
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  2. #102
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    On reflection, I think the answer is much like the response given a customer who asked the price in a Ferrari dealership, "If you have to ask the question, you shouldn't buy the car."
    LOL probably!

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I am shopping for a new fun car at the moment - I use a VW Golf to go shopping with so it collects all the bumps and scrapes and dirt and it does its job. If I want to go for a really slow ride through the country I am thinking that a Lambo in burnt orange will do the trick - if you go for the 12 cylinder version you also get the neat upwards openning doors and if you hang on whilst it is openning you will probably be able to actually get out ofthe car..I know a bloke who can modify the door motors so that they poewrful enough to accomplish this task..

    I can't use the Lambo for touring though as there is no luggage capacity - this is a cool feature as it will limit the blonde sitting in the pasenger seat to a purse - her lap will be my camera gear storage compartment - if I am feeling generous I will pack an M9 and coupel of lenses and if not she can hold a tripod with cube on it and nestle a large camera hard case between her legs.

    Oh you say - there goes
    Pete with one of his left field comments..

    and I say ..you think cameras arent the same as above?

    that mousetrap pick Marc put up is a tellling analogy - how many ways can one photograph a mouse trap?

    I really enjoy marc's sense of humour too - one canread his image in all sorts of ways - he gives you guys the lo - down on using some tech capability - whilst at teh same time pointing out he could have just made pretty much teh same shot from a distance..and used teh megapixel count to crop exactly the same effect..

    The dollar cost of these new high megapixel cameras is really high - or irrelevant - depending on the individual - do you 'need' the 80 megapixels is much like asking "do you need a sub 4 second 0-60mph" capability...

    lets not kid ourselves with 'rationalising' these types of decisions - although they are fun to read!

  4. #104
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I recently got myself a 645d along with DFA 55/2.8. My budget was around 15K, and with many great advices I received from members here, I considered every option and combo available within my budget, both new and used.

    In the end, 645d won out for 2 main reasons. One was the cost to performance ratio. I just did not think that aspect of this camera can be beat. Second was the weather sealing.

    I have had it for about a month now, and I have not looked back ever since.

    I have been only shooting seriously for about 4 years, and by any means I am an expert, and I am even somewhat embarrassed to post a link to my flicked site when there must be so many fantastic photographers here, but for what it's worth, I will post it here for your inspection and amusement. I feel like I am finally now starting to get a taste of what MF photography is all about, so please look at my site with a grain of salt.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/nubimd/

    Currently, I have been on a road trip for the last 10 days or so, covering southern Oregon coast down to SF, where I am at now. I plan to post many more shots taken with my 645d when I get back to southern Cal in a few days.

    Good luck!

  5. #105
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I am shopping for a new fun car at the moment - I use a VW Golf to go shopping with so it collects all the bumps and scrapes and dirt and it does its job. If I want to go for a really slow ride through the country I am thinking that a Lambo in burnt orange will do the trick - if you go for the 12 cylinder version you also get the neat upwards openning doors and if you hang on whilst it is openning you will probably be able to actually get out ofthe car..I know a bloke who can modify the door motors so that they poewrful enough to accomplish this task..

    I can't use the Lambo for touring though as there is no luggage capacity - this is a cool feature as it will limit the blonde sitting in the pasenger seat to a purse - her lap will be my camera gear storage compartment - if I am feeling generous I will pack an M9 and coupel of lenses and if not she can hold a tripod with cube on it and nestle a large camera hard case between her legs.
    In a way though Pete, it's much easier to 'understand' the usability of a lambo / ferrari than a tech camera. At least in my mind. A camera is much more complicated to me

    With a car, the purchase decision is simply: can I afford it, and is it not too ostentatious. Period. My purchase decision of a car was much much easier than this even when the car was much more expensive.

  6. #106
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    ....I can't use the Lambo for touring though as there is no luggage capacity - this is a cool feature as it will limit the blonde sitting in the pasenger seat to a purse - her lap will be my camera gear storage compartment - if I am feeling generous I will pack an M9 and coupel of lenses and if not she can hold a tripod with cube on it and nestle a large camera hard case between her legs.
    Oh Peter, I am not worthy...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    In a way though Pete, it's much easier to 'understand' the usability of a lambo / ferrari than a tech camera. At least in my mind. A camera is much more complicated to me

    ....
    Are you kidding? The blonde accessory that comes with the Lambo/Ferrari is much much more complicated....always has been, always will.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Certainly will cost more than 55k. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Just like saying what was justifiable in the wee hours can turn into coyote ugly real fast.
    Don Libby
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  9. #109
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Certainly will cost more than 55k. LOL
    But it will probably give more tactile experience than just swiping and pinching the back of an IQ180. I don't know how to focus with it though. Maybe using Hyper Vocal?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    "In a way though Pete, it's much easier to 'understand' the usability of a lambo / ferrari than a tech camera. At least in my mind. A camera is much more complicated to me."

    Really? I live in Southern California, and regularly pass Ferraris and Lamborginis in my Honda as their wanker owners cruise down the street at a little under the speed limit. These cars are most often bought by bench racers who want to brag about how fast their cars will go, but never really drive them. And really can't: there are other cars in the way, not to mention police officers who insist on enforcing traffic laws.

    I've had a different reaction to the new Phase backs than most posters here: I'd love one, but would be embarrassed to spend so much for what is (for me) essentially a toy. If I got one, I wouldn't want to tell anyone about it.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    While I'd like to get an IQ180 or 160 I'm still stuck in the mindset that my P45+ still is the best back for what I do with my WRS. I can do long shutter and at the same time I can check the focus on the screen - maybe not as fast and as elegant as the IQ but it gets the job done nevertheless. I'll also say that I have the IQ on the long term list so the answer is while I might not get one immediately I will have one within the next couple years. All I need to do is get over the idea I can't do long shutters with the IQ. It follows my thinking of it's nice to have it and not need it than to not have it and need it (the ability of longer shutter activation). I'm off next week to Bluff UT where I hope to get in some star trails in Valley of the Gods and the P45+ should shine very well there.
    Don Libby
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    ....
    I've had a different reaction to the new Phase backs than most posters here: I'd love one, but would be embarrassed to spend so much for what is (for me) essentially a toy. If I got one, I wouldn't want to tell anyone about it.
    But Stephen, you own Alpa gear if I'm not mistaken - so must have had to deal with this before. Seriously, I feel the same as you. I have the IQ140 on order, and my wife knows how much it is (and understands), but I'm not telling any friends. "You paid how much for a camera??!!" .....

    Cheers, -Peter

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Marc can I borrow that C note to ad to my o' **** upgrade piggy bank
    No can do ... it is the wifey's cash not mine ... I don't have two dimes to rub together anymore ... I suppose I could rub a couple of cameras together

    -Marc

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Just read through the whole thread again.

    On reflection, I think the answer is much like the response given a customer who asked the price in a Ferrari dealership, "If you have to ask the question, you shouldn't buy the car."
    As in ... "If you don't have the chedda you can't buy betta" ... oh, wait, I just said that

    -Marc

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No can do ... it is the wifey's cash not mine ... I don't have two dimes to rub together anymore ... I suppose I could rub a couple of cameras together

    -Marc
    Not sure my Sony and Phase would blend well. At least you have dimes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    But Stephen, you own Alpa gear if I'm not mistaken - so must have had to deal with this before. Seriously, I feel the same as you. I have the IQ140 on order, and my wife knows how much it is (and understands), but I'm not telling any friends. "You paid how much for a camera??!!" .....

    Cheers, -Peter
    I just put my helmet on and give her a bat to take the swing. Just easier that way. Saves me from her buying shoes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I just put my helmet on and give her a bat to take the swing. Just easier that way. Saves me from her buying shoes.
    I recently updated my photo equipment list (for insurance) and SWMBO gasped - because it was less than she's been spending on her horse

  18. #118
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I recently updated my photo equipment list (for insurance) and SWMBO gasped - because it was less than she's been spending on her horse
    what is SWMBO?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Jim, if you are married, go for.

    Why? well let say you die, you have nice looking wife, she will find another man, in he will spend all your cash.

    So now you look from hell what you had done, in nothing you can do about, while he spending your cash, So do like Guy he is changing camera every other months. So go for it. Its only cash, in if you get poor oh well, to bad.

    BlasR

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlasR View Post
    Jim, if you are married, go for.

    Why? well let say you die, you have nice looking wife, she will find another man, in he will spend all your cash.

    So now you look from hell what you had done, in nothing you can do about, while he spending your cash, So do like Guy he is changing camera every other months. So go for it. Its only cash, in if you get poor oh well, to bad.

    BlasR
    This is the best justification to date ... and I speak from experience ... BTW, you don't have to die for it to happen ... just a divorce will do it.

    -Marc

  21. #121
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Strictly commercially, for commercial, this gear is overpriced. For almost the same amount you can get an Arri Alexa!!! (and quite frankly it's another peice of electronic...)

    and Red gear, by margin!

    I could get much more money in return (I mean much more) with the Arri investment than with any of these backs, past present and future.

    But this is not rational. If you are hobbyist or art photographer and print big for galleries, this is IMO a logical investment.

    Go for it. Without hobbyists we would not have MF alternative today.

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    arri alternative

    if you don't like Arri here is another option you could go for instead

  23. #123
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by GASC View Post
    Go for it. Without hobbyists we would not have MF alternative today.
    Well.... a lot of people are saying this... but the problem is that even with the (presumably) 'increased' demands due to the hobbyists, Phase One gear prices aren't getting any cheaper... in fact it seems to get more expensive (IQ180 being more expensive than P65+, although depending on how you look at it... IQ160 is cheaper than P65+ used to be).

  24. #124
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    Re: arri alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    if you don't like Arri here is another option you could go for instead
    That's the funniest thing I've seen lately!

    I can't imagine hiking up a mountain for 6 hours carrying the Arri in my backpack!

  25. #125
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    Re: arri alternative

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    That's the funniest thing I've seen lately!

    I can't imagine hiking up a mountain for 6 hours carrying the Arri in my backpack!
    That's where you do a wrong calculation Jim.

    With the money earned with the Arri, you won't have to carry it, an assistant would do it for you.

    About the i.phone tele...they really don't know what more silly gadgetery to invent nowdays...

  26. #126
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    Well.... a lot of people are saying this... but the problem is that even with the (presumably) 'increased' demands due to the hobbyists, Phase One gear prices aren't getting any cheaper... in fact it seems to get more expensive (IQ180 being more expensive than P65+, although depending on how you look at it... IQ160 is cheaper than P65+ used to be).
    I would not expect that to change. Not going to get into details here but talking to dealers and Phase themselves they enjoying very high sales numbers on the IQ and have already surpassed there projected numbers. That will not bring prices down. So no matter what we think is expensive if sales are acting more like these things are sale bargains and having large sales that are going with them than I guess the price is correct for the market. Yea i know does not make it cheaper for us the end users and does not give us any bargain pricing. In the end though we will benefit from a company that keeps moving forward and bringing us new product which they have a lot on there roadmaps. You always want to invest in a healthy financial company. So yes there is some good news in all of this. Obviously Phase can use a new body and more lenses so this gives them the revenue to push forward on all of that. I know that sounds like a marketing tool but not meant to be. It's just reality
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #127
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I would not expect that to change. Not going to get into details here but talking to dealers and Phase themselves they enjoying very high sales numbers on the IQ and have already surpassed there projected numbers. That will not bring prices down. So no matter what we think is expensive if sales are acting more like these things are sale bargains and having large sales that are going with them than I guess the price is correct for the market. Yea i know does not make it cheaper for us the end users and does not give us any bargain pricing. In the end though we will benefit from a company that keeps moving forward and bringing us new product which they have a lot on there roadmaps. You always want to invest in a healthy financial company. So yes there is some good news in all of this. Obviously Phase can use a new body and more lenses so this gives them the revenue to push forward on all of that. I know that sounds like a marketing tool but not meant to be. It's just reality
    I think you hit the point Guy. Those are the market price and there is a demand and everybody is cuying.

    I understand the MF manufacturers. They had to go chasing the largest format film resolution and I will never complain about more megapixels on the plate. We all benefit from it.

    I'm not sure all the chain involved is at the level expected for making those backs really workflow-fast but it will be the case very soon we know it.

    As a working tool, it is totally overpriced. Don't get me wrong, for a pro structure it's okay. It's overpriced in the context of what the clients-market needs evolve. I pointed the Arri example because it is unbeleivable that a high-end back is priced the same as the Arri body when we all know that the relation investment-incomes is largely in favor of the Red or Arri kind of gear. If I'm talking about those in the context of MF stills is not a mistake. For most of us it is now part of the equation.

    Now, if MF manufacturers are earning money with those backs, and they need incomes, it is a good news, whatever are the target, hobbyists, pros, collectors etc...We want them to be part of the game.

    But soon or later, they will have to bring on the table something more than megapixel and top still quality at top price.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I agree the backs are 1st class. Now lets see a first class body to go with it and I know many Phase shooters want the same thing as i do. That is not a negative comment either it is more to get there checks and balances in place with the complete system package. I did not buy bits and pieces nor did anyone else. We came into buying systems and as a working Pro I don't mind spending the money but I do want precision instruments to help me make money. But irregardless of Pro or Hobbyist we are all searching for the holy grail. It may never ever get there but I would like to be damn close. With the new Schneiders and the new IQ's I say a great start now get us close to the finish line. I have been through so many systems and so much wasted energy, time and money getting here and I may add many others as well that we really want to be blown away on whats next and obtainable. We certainly do NOT need more than 80 mpx tops. Trust me it is amazing the detail and the human eye shooting can't see any of it but the back can but after that we are done. 80 is enough and maybe too much for many so lets move on somewhere else in the technology.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  29. #129
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    We agree Guy. I think that with 80 they reached maturity in terms of resolution and probably pushed to whatever was possible with CCD. It seems that moiré is well under control.

    Maybe they will go to 120MP, but indeed, from there we need their engineers now working on different tech. Hope Raw video will show-up and less computer dependence. I'd really love to be able to control those backs with a Marshall monitor in live view. There, they could sell them 60K it would be completly justified because it would be profit-making.

  30. #130
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    what is SWMBO?
    She Who Must Be Obeyed.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    We certainly do NOT need more than 80 mpx tops. Trust me it is amazing the detail and the human eye shooting can't see any of it but the back can but after that we are done. 80 is enough and maybe too much for many so lets move on somewhere else in the technology.
    5 * 4 film was enough for most people most of the time, but there were a few photographers who needed 10 * 8 for more detail... I think that I will make do with 60Mpx or 50 MS... but at the garden center I was at today there were some really awful 8ft * 15ft (garden) photographs that looked awful from 15 feet, and were crying out for a high-res camera.

    Maybe the 200Mpx cameras will be expensive, professional, specialist cameras that you might do without?

    ...but will "they" make anything they cannot sell in volume? ...and what the MF industry calls volume is not the same as what CaNikon calls volume.

  32. #132
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    You can stitch 3 shots or so as well with the 180 back. Not sure I want to say that out loud with my computer listening. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You can stitch 3 shots or so as well with the 180 back. Not sure I want to say that out loud with my computer listening. LOL
    What image circle would you need for 3 * 180?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    What image circle would you need for 3 * 180?
    Schneider 43mm XL, 47mm XL or 120mm would fit three horizontal IQ180 frames stacked vertically (for a tall vertical pano strip). It would also fit three vertical IQ180 images stacked horizontally (for a wide landscape pano) but it would require 30mm of movement of shift left/right to do the wide-pano which only a few of the tech cameras have.



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  35. #135
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You can stitch 3 shots or so as well with the 180 back. Not sure I want to say that out loud with my computer listening. LOL
    LOL time to upgrade your computer Guy! What do you use right now?

    6 or 12 core mac pro, 32-64GB RAM, 3xSATA3 (or SAS) RAID0 would probably help there...

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    FYI an IQ180 three-image stitch with 10mm of frame overlap using a Schneider 43mm XL would be the same field of view as a 17mm on a 5DII or other full frame dSLR.

  37. #137
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Schneider 43mm XL, 47mm XL or 120mm would fit three horizontal IQ180 frames stacked vertically (for a tall vertical pano strip). It would also fit three vertical IQ180 images stacked horizontally (for a wide landscape pano) but it would require 30mm of movement of shift left/right to do the wide-pano which only a few of the tech cameras have.
    Doug, thanks for this diagram! It's great! For landscape photography, scenarios:

    - If I were to pick just 2 lenses which would you recommend
    - If I were to pick just 3 lenses which would you recommend (this is getting on the heavy side - prefer to get away with just 2 lenses for hiking)

    My idea would be:
    - for 2 lenses: 43mm xl (if I need wider, I will stitch)
    - 120mm (also stitch if needed)

    For 3 lens combo:
    - 43, 120, 210

    Comments?

    Oh do you have the data on the weights of these lenses?
    I downloaded a pdf of apo-digitar lenses and it doesn't list 43mm - only 47mm which is 300 grams
    120mm = 255g
    210mm/6.8 = 420g

  38. #138
    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You can stitch 3 shots or so as well with the 180 back. Not sure I want to say that out loud with my computer listening. LOL
    Guy, from the looks of this Death Valley 5-image "focus stitch" you did, your machine loves to exercise her SDRAM...


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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    If you're working with us on your gear selection one of things our salesmen can do is show you how wide each lens would be with a single shot or 2/3/4/9 frame stitching so that you know how many effective focal lengths and what total range of effective lengths you'd have based on that selection. We can also generate custom diagrams like the one you see above for your specific back and lenses, including limitations for any given camera body. These are tools we've invested a lot of time to create, refine, and understand (both in theory and in practice).

    My favorite lens is the 47XL or 43XL (being very similar lenses). If I were to pick two lenses it would be the 47mm and a backup 47mm :-).

    In all seriousness the 47XL covers a LOT of needs. A Schneider 120mm or Schneider 90mm would make an excellent companion with a Rodenstock 23mm HR (large but better) or Schneider 24XL being a third lens if needed.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Duffin View Post
    Guy, from the looks of this Death Valley 5-image "focus stitch" you did, your machine loves to exercise her SDRAM...

    Hi David

    FYI David was with me last week when I was the instructor at PODAS Death Valley. David shoots with Alpa and currently a P65+ which will change to the IQ 180. He also owns a Arca RM2D but prefers the Alpa more. Anyway not to go to far off topic here but it is important to point out processing the IQ 180 files is not bad at all as C1 has really improved there raw processing speed in the latest version.

    Case in point I do NOT have a Mac Pro. Believe it or not my main machine is a 2011 MacBook Pro Quad core 2.3 with two SSD drives one running at Sata 3 speeds and 8gb of ram.

    Now this machine is actually twice as fast as the dual core when it comes to C1 and processing. C1 is a core sucking pig. LOL

    Seriously it loves cores and the more you can throw at it the better but just getting to Quad Cores is amazingly fast. So I can process a IQ 180 file in about 10 -14 seconds depending on what is applied. Obviously faster with my P40+ but still very good with the big backs. My only real limitation is Ram at 8gb so that will be upgraded to 16gb on a laptop if you can believe it.

    Now CS5 needs and loves Ram so that is where more my issues are with the big IQ 180 files pushing them around.

    Helicon focus with this 5 shot focus stack with the 180 just blows right through it in less than 2 minutes which is very fast putting that together.

    Bottom line here folks you can get by with a good laptop and sure a MacPro will blow through this stuff but it is not as critical as it once was.

    Now don't get me wrong a 2011 quad core with a sata 3 SSD and 16gb of ram is not McDonalds pricing at all but it will get the job done. Total to really max out the new MBP quads about 4500-5k. But it is portable. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    BTW I loved that 47mm XL Schneider Doug is talking about. Maybe the best focal length to have on the FF sensors.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post


    My idea would be:
    - for 2 lenses: 43mm xl (if I need wider, I will stitch)
    - 120mm (also stitch if needed)

    For 3 lens combo:
    - 43, 120, 210

    Comments?
    Does the term FISH OR CUT BAIT apply here?

    Normally one has an either or question that has an end point...all of us have entered at some point and either stayed there or moved on a bit.

    As the saying goes...come on in, the water's fine.

    Any of the above will smoke technically the captures of HCB, AA anf EdW...
    all we need is vision and talent.

    Just an observation,

    Bob

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I've been using Schneider 35, 72 and 120mm lenses with my WRS for several years now and very pleased with the range and results. I've been tempted going longer to a 150. I've also thought about the 47mm but just like the 35 too much.
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    >I can't imagine hiking up a mountain for 6 hours carrying the Arri in my backpack!

    Not a problem, you have a crew :-)
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    And btw where did we get 55 k. I think 42k for a back, must have added the Alpa gear.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  46. #146
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    And btw where did we get 55 k. I think 42k for a back, must have added the Alpa gear.
    Actually my latest calculation (keeping this all in a spreadsheet, prices, weight of individual components etc) adds up to 58K++

    Each system includes camera body and 3 lenses.

    I haven't added any taxes and duties for when I'm bringing this into Australia - it'll be another 10% on top.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Doug's advice is excellent as always. I would just add that you can download the Alpa calculator (here) and do these calculations yourself.

    I think the weight numbers you mention must be without lens mount/board or maybe shutter. The 120mm Digitar is about 600g in Alpa mount, the 210mm about 1kg. The 47mmXL is 370g and 43mmXL 382g.

    I've chosen the 47mmXL and 100mm Digitars on an Alpa.

    Cheers, -Peter

  48. #148
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterL View Post
    Doug's advice is excellent as always. I would just add that you can download the Alpa calculator (here) and do these calculations yourself.

    I think the weight numbers you mention must be without lens mount/board or maybe shutter. The 120mm Digitar is about 600g in Alpa mount, the 210mm about 1kg. The 47mmXL is 370g and 43mmXL 382g.

    I've chosen the 47mmXL and 100mm Digitars on an Alpa.

    Cheers, -Peter
    Wow, huge difference in weight for 120 and 210 compared to what I thought they were! Thanks!

    I think the alpa mount is slightly heavier because of the square plate vs on Arca they are just some kind of bayonet / thread. Nevertheless, you're right that the weight I listed were just the lens without the mount.

    This brings the total camera weight of Phase back + rm3di + 3 lenses to about 4kg!

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Schneider 43mm XL, 47mm XL or 120mm would fit three horizontal IQ180 frames stacked vertically (for a tall vertical pano strip). It would also fit three vertical IQ180 images stacked horizontally (for a wide landscape pano) but it would require 30mm of movement of shift left/right to do the wide-pano which only a few of the tech cameras have.



    Doug Peterson
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    BTW I loved that 47mm XL Schneider Doug is talking about. Maybe the best focal length to have on the FF sensors.
    My Sinar P3 has plenty of movement, even more than the standard P3, as I converted it from a P2.

    The Hasselblad H4D-60 has the same sensor dimensions as the P65+.

    The Schneider Apo-Digitar 150 and 210 also have large enough image circles.

    I think that the MF tech lenses shorter than the 43 are not worth gadget bag room, and they tend to need special WA pancake cameras.

  50. #150
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Pardon the interruption but which technical cameras allow enough movement to use the full image circle of the 47XL?

    Thanks,
    Ed

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Schneider 43mm XL, 47mm XL or 120mm would fit three horizontal IQ180 frames stacked vertically (for a tall vertical pano strip). It would also fit three vertical IQ180 images stacked horizontally (for a wide landscape pano) but it would require 30mm of movement of shift left/right to do the wide-pano which only a few of the tech cameras have.



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