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Thread: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

  1. #1
    Jim2
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    Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I am soooo tempted to get a Phase One IQ180 + Arca + Lenses which would total up to 55K - 60K. The thing is - this is just a hobby for me. I am not a 'great' photographer by any stretch of the imagination, but I love photography and want to learn and get better. Am I "worthy" of using IQ180?

    I just love taking landscape photos and currently use 1ds3. It works well for me but I am thinking that maybe I want to print an odd huge print i.e. in the 50-60" size every now and then - and I'd imagine that this will only come up throughout my life less than 10 images.... (so optimistic aren't I) unless if I pick up more skills and come up with lots of nice photos and can then sell them. That's my 'justification' for getting an IQ180. A very weak one I know!

    Most of the time I'd print at 24"x30" or smaller.... and occasionally some slightly bigger say 30"x40". I think 1ds3 or d3x (or maybe even Pentax 645D) would be ok for these (or under these sizes would an IQ180 still beat the others?)

    Then there's the issue of "money". is it wise to spend 55K on a hobby, even when the money is available and I won't be cash strapped afterwards? I don't want to be irresponsible with my money!

    On the other hand, spending it on a car would probably be the same in terms of whether that is 'wise'.

    Sorry for the rambling.... I wonder if there are other people in the same predicament, who have decided one way or the other?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    ....is it wise to spend 55K on a hobby, even when the money is available and I won't be cash strapped afterwards? I don't want to be irresponsible with my money!

    ....

    Sorry for the rambling.... I wonder if there are other people in the same predicament, who have decided one way or the other?
    I'm not in that predicament since I don't have the cash

    A hobby is a hobby. That means there is no reason behind it since it's an emotional thing. You don't pick up a hobby because you sat down and rationalize what you should do. You do it because you love it.

    Even though you have the money, the fact that you posted the question here, it makes you wonder if it's "wise". If you have reservations, you shouldn't do it. Or maybe start smaller: IQ 140. While it will not make a huge difference in price, it's still a substantial difference.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Did you have to go and add it all up?

    If it makes you feel any better, you are not the only one struggling with the same question.

    Clearly there is a rational easy answer that is a NO.
    But then you can think of other things that get rather pricey (like boats, collecting cars, etc).

    No simple answer.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    To be in the predicament of deciding upon an unfettered $55,000 purchase for your personal pleasure is the envy of many around the world.

    If you have plenty of cash in the bank (an 8-10 month emergency fund that will pay all your living expenses in the case of some catastrophe), have $4 Million in your retirement fund, have no credit card debt, have given enough to charity that feels you've done your bit for the world, are not starving your dog or your kids, and still have $60K to lavish on your entertainment ... why not? That's being responsible with your money.

    That money spent on your entertainment is money in the general economy that will foster others to live well and aspire to your wealth.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    I am soooo tempted to get a Phase One IQ180 + Arca + Lenses which would total up to 55K - 60K.
    Just a question: have you ever used a Phase One or another MF and taked some shoots or always the 1ds3?

  6. #6
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    If it makes you feel any better, you are not the only one struggling with the same question.
    It does kinda make me feel a bit better... but are you also doing it just as a hobby?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Bottom line you only are here for a short time why not do what you want . That is what hobbies are for is to enjoy yourself and have fun. I teach this on the workshops all the time folks show up with much better gear than me and rightfully so. They have no ROI to think about and they just want the best images the cam can do. I just shot the IQ 180 prototype all week again in Death Valley. The image quality and amount of detail is smoking hot. I would love to have one no question about it. My issue is I DON'T have the money but if I could justify it as a working Pro I would be all over it. BTW you don't have to worthy of anything it's your money and there are no rules on being worthy enough to have one. If it is a little too much than consider the IQ 160 which is still amazing. But I will say this after shooting this thing twice now and i say it without reservations GET ONE in any flavor.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    Just a question: have you ever used a Phase One or another MF and taked some shoots or always the 1ds3?
    I went on a PODAS "workshop" once (in which, what I enjoyed the most was the food) and had a chance to play with P65+ on the Phase One DF body for a week. To be honest I am not that "WOW" impressed but I do recognise that the resolution is there to support printing at larger sizes. I also had a chance to touch and play with Alpa.

    I wouldn't want to get / use the DF body - hence why I'm going to Arca.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Did you have to go and add it all up?

    If it makes you feel any better, you are not the only one struggling with the same question.

    Clearly there is a rational easy answer that is a NO.
    But then you can think of other things that get rather pricey (like boats, collecting cars, etc).

    No simple answer.
    You dont have any options. Your getting one so I can use it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    I went on a PODAS "workshop" once (in which, what I enjoyed the most was the food) and had a chance to play with P65+ on the Phase One DF body for a week. To be honest I am not that "WOW" impressed but I do recognise that the resolution is there to support printing at larger sizes. I also had a chance to touch and play with Alpa.

    I wouldn't want to get / use the DF body - hence why I'm going to Arca.
    I just was a instructor at PODAS last week. Nice workshops but it really is not enough time to get used to the system in that short amount of time. A lot of folks are just trying to understand the system for the 3 or 4 days there which is totally understandable. MF is different and I spent a lot of time side by side with folks just helping them get through there shooting. So for them it is more a introduction into it and see if they like it. Frankly it takes a good month to get these systems under your control. Than the magic happens and this goes with any MF system.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post

    I wouldn't want to get / use the DF body - hence why I'm going to Arca.
    I only use a technical camera and sold my DF body/lenses.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I've wrestled with the same issue myself and in the end, I simply couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money even though I (sort of, barely) could afford it. Instead, I compromised and bought used equipment that was a few years and few generations old (i.e., Contax 645/P30+) for a fraction of the cost ... problem solved!

    For the moment, anyway...
    Last edited by Audii-Dudii; 10th April 2011 at 08:08.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?
    Yes, go for it.

    The used MFD market - actually the MFD market in general - would be all the poorer were it not for the "gentleman photographers" on this list.

    Please be sure to upgrade in a year or two

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    It's all relative. There will always be some that poorer and some that are richer. It doesn't matter how you "look" to others. Just do what you feel is right for you. When I bought my M8, it seemed extravagant and when i carried it around I got a range of reactions from people who knew what it was. Compared to the system you're contemplating, it was a budget buy.

    But I think the bigger question (assuming all your financial ducks are in a row) is whether it will enhance the enjoyment of your hobby. My sense that it is a lot more work than what you might be used to and might even change the way you shoot. Which might turn out to be a tremendous learning experience that deepens your enjoyment and elevates your craft. Or, it could be a frustrating pain in the a%$.

    Good luck with it!
    Tim

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post

    ... I don't want to be irresponsible with my money ...
    Jim, "responsibility" is a moral question. What you really seem to be asking here is "Have I done enough with my life in terms of enriching the lives of others, so that I may now enrich myself?" If you believe that you can answer "yes" to this question, then by all means you have a right to satisfy your "love" of photography with such expense.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Just be aware that the most top-end system will have the highest depreciation. Why not go for a nice compromise? Say an Aptus 10 that you get by tradin-in? Since you were talking about responsibility. I'm sure you can save about 20k if you buy 2nd hand and smartly.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    A hobby is about pure enjoyment. You don't have to make "business rational decisions" necessarily, though your hobby may produce some income.

    Life is short. As long as the cash is there, I wouldn't compromise much. I'd be checking out all the camera platforms possible, (arca, cambo, alpa, et al). In the end, I want to say, "damn, I really had a great time" rather than wondering "what if I had bought that camera..."

    ken

    p.s. Since we're all spending your money--- I vote no less than an IQ160 on a tech camera platform.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Buy 8x10 Large Format, and Drum Scanner and you will print even larger than 50x60".

    I bought my 60mp camera for hobby only and i have 7 Canon DSLRs including that 1Ds3, all for hobby, i gained about only 1% of the total price and this never make me to regret, i love the resolution out of digital MF over my 35mm DSLR, but i still didn't use that MF on what it should be used for, hope next time i travel for landscapes i will carry my digiMF.
    Tareq

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I tend to let equipment get ahead of me, and then feel depressed being unable to justify the purchase. Not justify in the financial sense, as I'm not trying to make money from photography, but in the sense of getting results from the equipment that I'm at all happy with. For instance, I never took a single exposure from a 4x5 or 8x10 camera that wasn't awful.

    Where am I going with this? I just finished a 10 week course on Portraiture and Landscape. Doing the assignments - thinking about what I was trying to achieve, failure, experimentation, success - made the equipment my friend. Suddenly it wasn't "I just spent a zillion dollars on Leica glass; better use it." It was: "I need macro here, get out the Canon" or "This would look good on B+W film." or "Natural light portrait: Summilux time!"

    To sum up, get training to go with your equipment, and you'll feel happy and secure with your choices.

    Best,

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    (OK, I lied. I'm still agonizing about a 645D to go with all this Pentax glass...)

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    It's a hobby for me too, although I sell enough big prints to justify it. I use a 1DSIII, Sony A900, and wanted to go bigger. May I suggest a Pentax 645D? That's the way I went, and do not regret it. A lot cheaper, and you can see if that's the route you want to take.
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    In my opinion if you will get the most enjoyment out of spending your money on it then go for it.... There are people who spend 100k on there car engine to make a lot of power and to me that's a waste of money but not to them! spend your money on what makes you happy at the end of the day its only money
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Will it allow you to take better pictures?

    55K is a lot to spend out of lust. Something that often fades as quickly as it arrived.

    I'd hate to be in your position and fully understand your doubts....... Good luck!

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    These are very refreshing comments in response to a post that would be easy to criticize. We all have economic decisions to make, but different circumstances in life (whether earned or luck); life and good health are short and to find a passion for the beauty of photography and have that passion be a pursuit to be the best one can be with the equipment one can afford is a precious thing. I know people who can take no passion from life and only know "work" without anything to breath life into their existence. Those who can afford it have often learned the hard way that one can buy 4 or 5 times or get the best available at the time they are ready. I say go for it with all your passion for enjoyment and pleasure that your circumstances safely permit; if you find yourself looking back....there will be those who will be happy to purchase from you at a great discount; there is a vital difference between justifying something and earning the chance to fulfull your passion. Charles

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Ophuis View Post
    In my opinion if you will get the most enjoyment out of spending your money on it then go for it.... There are people who spend 100k on there car engine to make a lot of power and to me that's a waste of money but not to them! spend your money on what makes you happy at the end of the day its only money
    I go with this philosophy, as i saw many people wasted money on buying cars and lands and they don't need that many things, i have one car, i have friends have 2-3 cars and they always drive one car changing overtime, so i think if they buy cars or houses for joy and not for need then why i can't buy cameras for joy as well?
    I am planning to spend another $50k+ in the future to buy another MF system, this time with a tech camera and Schneider lenses, not sure if i will think about Phase One or just try to use my H4D-60 back on that tech camera as someone did here.
    Money is money, if not wasted today it will be wasted tomorrow.
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I mentioned this to a gentleman last week on a workshop see if this makes sense as he was agonizing over the same thing. Here are my comments. I said regardless of how much you spend as a hobbyist or a pro there is truly something special about getting your first image published or selling that first print to someone that actually thinks your good enough to have hanging on there wall. When that happens than whatever you spent is justified because there is NO better feeling than being recognized as a good shooter by someone. No amount of money can buy that feeling. Just buy a tool that can get you there, if you think this is it why not buy it. I certainly want to say in my last gasps of breath that I led a great life and whatever that means to you than go for it. The word regret is not in my vocabulary. Its all a life experience.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Jim: You only live once.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    A lot of people spend a heck of a lot more on their hobbies, on bikes, boats, etc...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    It's your money - why even ask?

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Donate this money on me, i will start a business and i will give you $100k back, it will take a bit time but it will happen, so instead you spend that $55k and get nothing or no much even if you sell prints better give me that money and i can start i good business here where i can increase that amount of money and then i will give you back double of what you spend, you will never find a better deal anywhere
    Tareq

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    My first thoughts on this was to say go ahead and do it - if that's what you really want to do. Some people spend that much on a single vacation so why not spend it on something that will give you continual pleasure.

    The I read your other response.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    I went on a PODAS "workshop" once (in which, what I enjoyed the most was the food) and had a chance to play with P65+ on the Phase One DF body for a week. To be honest I am not that "WOW" impressed but I do recognise that the resolution is there to support printing at larger sizes. I also had a chance to touch and play with Alpa.

    I wouldn't want to get / use the DF body - hence why I'm going to Arca.

    Based on that response I'm having second thoughts as it seems you weren't impressed with MF. I am glad you enjoyed the food. Then again it appears you're jumping right into a tech camera so what the heck - if you can afford it do it. If you find you don't like it then there's always the Buy/Sell part of this forum.

    Remember - it isn't just about changing your camera gear as more than likely you'll also need better computing and processing software to go along with all this. Then there's the likelihood of a better/stronger tripod and don't forget about the Cube...
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I saw you use a 1ds3, but didn't say if you have experience with digital mf. There certainly is a learning curve going from dslr to mfd. My suggestion would be to start with some lower priced mfd, one you expect would be easy to sell after you spend a reasonable amount of time learning on it, making some large prints, etc. Then go to whatever is top of the line back and technical camera in a year or so. I'm not sure going from crawling to the Olympic finals of the 100 meter dash without an intermediate step is good. Sometimes the journey is as important as the destination.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    But I think the bigger question (assuming all your financial ducks are in a row) is whether it will enhance the enjoyment of your hobby. My sense that it is a lot more work than what you might be used to and might even change the way you shoot. Which might turn out to be a tremendous learning experience that deepens your enjoyment and elevates your craft. Or, it could be a frustrating pain in the a%$.

    Good luck with it!
    Tim
    Tim: I'd agree 100% with this!!

    For the OP, make sure that you know what you are getting yourself into when moving from the 1DS3 because high resolution MF with it's more restricted depth of field, brutal punishment for anything less than technical excellence when shooting, and much cruder overall systems than you've been used to, will all add up to either make the experience more enjoyable or frustrating as hell. I'd definitely get a decent dealer on board and get them to allow you try this stuff first.

    As regards whether you should spend the cash - well, you're only here once so do what you enjoy. As I've mentioned here before, it's much cheaper than trophy wives, ex-wives, McMansions, exotic cars, boats, kids in college, etc etc. If you can afford it then why the hell not if it brings you pleasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I only use a technical camera and sold my DF body/lenses.
    I was THAT close to dumping all of my DF/glass and then decided that my problem was lack of all out commitment to the platform for my landscape shooting. I just decided to keep with my Alpa system as my primary and dump my Nikon gear - that's a painful decision that feels like a divorce ... but I think better in the long run. Now adding the missing glass to the DF & Alpa and contemplating whether it's the IQ140 I originally planned to upgrade to or whether to go further up the IQ mountain of $$$.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    As the fortunate owner of an M9 kit for travel, a Sony a900 for wildlife and a P65+ for landscape, I think you know what my answer is!

    I sell a lot of my photographs and prints but I'm essentially a hobbyist who photographs what he loves - and if others want to pay for the results, then that helps with the budget. But I'd own the gear anyway.

    Go for it.

    Bill

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    If it will make your life more eventful and interesting - go for it.

    Hobby is actually easier to justify , as it all boils down to "gut-happy" feeling.

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Bottom line you only are here for a short time
    As I am already retirment age (and in bad health), this is a problem, as I hope to get back the money I spent... will I be active long enough to get my money back?

    ...you don't have to worthy of anything
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    .. there is NO better feeling than being recognized as a good shooter by someone. No amount of money can buy that feeling.
    ...yes, but you do not want to made to look a fool by people with kit one tenth of the price you paid!

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Let's face it, did you think that anyone, on this the greatest of gearhead forums, would say no?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    In short, three answers:

    1) yes, its your money to do as you wish.
    2) no, that amount is irresponsible
    3) take some small steps to test the waters, and see if this path makes sense.

    Then you can see if the $:results are working. If so, perhaps keep going, perhaps not. If not, do something else with the money. If a lesser kit will give you equal satisfaction, then its all to the good.

    My vote for #3.

  38. #38
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    No different than buying a $55K car to run to get groceries at 55-65mph (for we unfortunate N.A.'s). Actually it's better - at least you'd be creating something with it as it depreciated vs. simply watching it depreciate in the driveway.

    As many have said, (depending on your religion or lack thereof), you only live once and if you have the $$ - buy used to minimize that 'driving it off the lot' $$ haircut (you can always be a bit 'practical'...) and go for it.

  39. #39
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Only YOU can gauge your passion ... and your personal practicality / sense of responsibility is what tempers that passion, not someone else's. Personally I sure the hell don't have 3 million in my retirement account, and tend to live with less other stuff so I can have more photographic stuff... perverting the notion of "Less is More"

    It seems to me that you need to think through the passion part ... is the motivation weighted toward materialistically having the best, or aesthetically doing the best? Big difference. ("weighted" being the operative word, since it is bound to be both to some degree).

    What you are considering is without a doubt the best there is ... and even if surpassed in 2 or 3 years, will remain a milestone of photographic excellence for many, many years to come. This isn't the same as even 5 years ago ... MFD is now in the stratosphere when considering a 60 or 80 meg large sensor DB ... and a tech camera with the latest optics is most certainly up to the resolution of these backs. If truly considering work primarily with a tech camera, then there is no other choice compared to the IQ backs ... the unique operational advantages significantly increases your chances of mastery IMHO.

    However, the other part of the equation is determining your personal threshold for technical mastery ... which does involve some level of mechanical aptitude and attention to detail on a far greater level than you've experienced to date with your current gear. You need a head for this type of discipline ... and many who think they do, find they do not ... in the end deciding it is just to fussy and tedious. One man's ecstasy is another man's PITA

    Good luck!

    -Marc

  40. #40
    Senior Member stngoldberg's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Buy a Hasselblad-they have more lenses available that give you more pleasure. Try the 300mm with the 1.7 extender-510mm on a 60 megapixel sensor-or put two 1.7 extenders on for 840mm and still get amazing image quality

  41. #41
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    However, the other part of the equation is determining your personal threshold for technical mastery ... which does involve some level of mechanical aptitude and attention to detail on a far greater level than you've experienced to date with your current gear. You need a head for this type of discipline ... and many who think they do, find they do not ... in the end deciding it is just to fussy and tedious. One man's ecstasy is another man's PITA
    -Marc
    This is advice that we all would do well to consider. I do not think I am alone in having made the wrong choice of systems along the MF path. The features that I initially thought I wanted/needed turned out, after some time using them, to be things I didn't want to deal with, e.g. the ability to shoot multiple platforms with the same back. It's taken me many years, multiple systems and a lot of cash to figure out what's really important for me. While the cost of entry may be high... it's getting out of a wrong system that's painfully expensive. I'd encourage you to rent the system for a week or two. Many (if not most) dealers will allow you to apply the rental charge to the purchase price if you decide to buy it.

  42. #42
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    I don't have $3M in my retirement fund either, which is why financially it's wiser to put this money into an investment, and that's what I'm struggling with. If only I have a crystal ball!

    I am turning 34 this month. In a year, I would probably get about 5-10 photos that I would consider OK to print. I am still happy with my 1ds3 - and the only reason to go bigger is for better detail and the remote 'possibility' of doing bigger prints.

    I have never sold my prints, maybe if I can sell them this whole thing would be a whole lot easier to justify. Do landscape photographers 'build up' their portfolio first as a hobby and one day decided they'd sell them and turn it into a serious business, opening galleries etc?

    It would be a different story if I am doing this to derive an income, then it would be a no brainer to get the best possible - whether it is a phase or an 8x10 film.

  43. #43
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Than nothing wrong with a IQ 140 on a tech cam. I shoot the P40+ daily and I am not lacking for much. Sure a 60 mpx with a 15 mpx sensor plus back would fit me better but the 40 mpx backs are in the park and produce great images. Its about 22k for the IQ 140 than you can always upgrade later. Hell been thinking lately of selling my P40+ and getting a used P65+ than upgrade next year to the IQ. The IQ 180 is awesome but so will be the IQ 160 too. I shot every back they have including the 180 and they are all very good image wise. If you want new and want to save a few dollars than the IQ 160 is going to serve anyone very well. Something to think about.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  44. #44
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    I don't have $3M in my retirement fund either, which is why financially it's wiser to put this money into an investment, and that's what I'm struggling with. If only I have a crystal ball!

    I am turning 34 this month. In a year, I would probably get about 5-10 photos that I would consider OK to print. I am still happy with my 1ds3 - and the only reason to go bigger is for better detail and the remote 'possibility' of doing bigger prints.

    I have never sold my prints, maybe if I can sell them this whole thing would be a whole lot easier to justify. Do landscape photographers 'build up' their portfolio first as a hobby and one day decided they'd sell them and turn it into a serious business, opening galleries etc?

    It would be a different story if I am doing this to derive an income, then it would be a no brainer to get the best possible - whether it is a phase or an 8x10 film.
    In this situation, I think the "voice of reason" would be to test your passion. (Yes, and pretty damn scary if that voice of reason is coming from me ) I would take pause for a moment. Invest a tiny bit and go on some photo excursions---could be a workshop(s) with Jack/Guy, going out with others that have MFDBs, plan a landscape photography trip somewhere with a rental MFDB system. Spend some time to test your passion with different MFDB systems.

    This is the closest you're going to get to having that crystal ball in making the right investment decision...

    ken

  45. #45
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Than nothing wrong with a IQ 140 on a tech cam. I shoot the P40+ daily and I am not lacking for much. Sure a 60 mpx with a 15 mpx sensor plus back would fit me better but the 40 mpx backs are in the park and produce great images. Its about 22k for the IQ 140 than you can always upgrade later. Hell been thinking lately of selling my P40+ and getting a used P65+ than upgrade next year to the IQ. The IQ 180 is awesome but so will be the IQ 160 too. I shot every back they have including the 180 and they are all very good image wise. If you want new and want to save a few dollars than the IQ 160 is going to serve anyone very well. Something to think about.
    Going along this line of thinking for a second....
    - a used P65+ costs the same as IQ140 which would you choose.

    I'm smack in the middle of deciding that now. If I was a tech cam shooter all the time than the IQ in any flavor


    - The difference of either of the above to IQ180 is about $17-20K - a small extra(??) considering the doubling of resolution

    MPX are not everything

    - If I get IQ140 (or P65+) now and upgrade, my then used IQ140 would have depreciated in value, making the upgrade more costly in the future, unless perhaps upgrade to IQ180 when they have a 100MP back - in what.... 3 years?

    Certainly tougher money wise going from the 40 sensors to the bigger ones. Need to remember also upgrade programs are designed to get you to upgrade so the depreciation value on the street is different than the upgrade programs. The upgrade programs always offer less depreciation on your current gear. The basic idea here is keep you in the system.

    Another idea -
    - Wait for the influx of traded up P65+ to 'flood' the market (haha?) and pick them up at a much cheaper (??) price

    How many P65+'s were they selling in 2008-2010?

    A lot don't have those numbers but most backs wind up in education programs and rental houses. Think about this for a second Phase really does not want a lot of used backs on the market since they could lose new sales instead. Not a Phase thing overall but all manufactures do not want to flood the market with used product so they will off load them for other things. This is very normal.

    I'm not sure why people would go with IQ160 over IQ180 when the difference is not that much.

    On the upgrade path no doubt and for resale value the 180 will have more value so yes this is a tough call and Phase as you can see by there pricing are pushing the 180 and that will reflect in there units sold.

    Tough choice!

  46. #46
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim2 View Post
    I'm not sure why people would go with IQ160 over IQ180 when the difference is not that much.

    Tough choice!
    On a tech camera, I would be more biased towards a larger sensor, and that means P65+, IQ160, or IQ180.

    The current upgrade programs make it really really really hard not to get an IQ180 if you are coming from a MFDB like the P65+. The "lateral" upgrade programs are really yet to be seen, and initial squabblings still make you squirm over just grabbing the higher IQ back for a what is a pittance

    It's a different story if you're not upgrading. The IQ160 is a very attractive MFDB. The field is more open as it were. And you do need to take a step back for a moment---this is sixty megapixels, still extremely high resolution beyond what most really need....

  47. #47
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Yes upgrading it really is a no brainer going from the 65+ to the IQ 180 since that upgrade path is pretty low in cost relative to the other upgrades. So most of the current sales and there are a ton is to the IQ 180. Buying fresh from the start adds another dimension on costs.
    Here are some costs posted

    IQ180: $43,990
    IQ160: $36,990
    IQ140: $21,990
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #48
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    So a 7k difference between the 180 and 160. Thats pretty much a Alpa/Arca body and maybe a lens in there.

    Seriously from just jumping into it I would recommend the IQ 160 to start. I also agree with Ken get on a workshop like ours and try this stuff and we will teach you how to use it. Nothing better than being with other Phase shooters and see how this all works. I can pretty much get a demo on any Phase product except the IQ's right now. That was NOT a sales pitch either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  49. #49
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    To invest in MFD is an oxymoron! Whatever system one purchases, the camera will depreciate considerably. I've used a 40MP camera for landscapes that can easily print as big as a billboard! Phase One, offers good choices that allow for future upgrades and very attractive prices on new (40- 60 MP ) DB's. Planned obsolescence in MFD, is loathed, but expected, don't be fooled by pixel envy. It's really up to the lens to squeeze out all that beautiful resolution! Most importantly, enjoy the experience as a hobby because you might evolve as a photographer and dare I say...an artist!

  50. #50
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    Re: Is buying a 55K camera justifiable... in the name of hobby?

    Crap I edited your post by accident reread my comments


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso
    Than nothing wrong with a IQ 140 on a tech cam. I shoot the P40+ daily and I am not lacking for much. Sure a 60 mpx with a 15 mpx sensor plus back would fit me better but the 40 mpx backs are in the park and produce great images. Its about 22k for the IQ 140 than you can always upgrade later. Hell been thinking lately of selling my P40+ and getting a used P65+ than upgrade next year to the IQ. The IQ 180 is awesome but so will be the IQ 160 too. I shot every back they have including the 180 and they are all very good image wise. If you want new and want to save a few dollars than the IQ 160 is going to serve anyone very well. Something to think about.
    Going along this line of thinking for a second....
    - a used P65+ costs the same as IQ140 which would you choose.

    GUY: I'm smack in the middle of deciding that now. If I was a tech cam shooter all the time than the IQ in any flavor


    - The difference of either of the above to IQ180 is about $17-20K - a small extra(??) considering the doubling of resolution

    GUY: MPX are not everything

    - If I get IQ140 (or P65+) now and upgrade, my then used IQ140 would have depreciated in value, making the upgrade more costly in the future, unless perhaps upgrade to IQ180 when they have a 100MP back - in what.... 3 years?

    GUY: Certainly tougher money wise going from the 40 sensors to the bigger ones. Need to remember also upgrade programs are designed to get you to upgrade so the depreciation value on the street is different than the upgrade programs. The upgrade programs always offer less depreciation on your current gear. The basic idea here is keep you in the system.

    Another idea -
    - Wait for the influx of traded up P65+ to 'flood' the market (haha?) and pick them up at a much cheaper (??) price

    How many P65+'s were they selling in 2008-2010?

    GUY: A lot don't have those numbers but most backs wind up in education programs and rental houses. Think about this for a second Phase really does not want a lot of used backs on the market since they could lose new sales instead. Not a Phase thing overall but all manufactures do not want to flood the market with used product so they will off load them for other things. This is very normal.

    I'm not sure why people would go with IQ160 over IQ180 when the difference is not that much.

    GUY: On the upgrade path no doubt and for resale value the 180 will have more value so yes this is a tough call and Phase as you can see by there pricing are pushing the 180 and that will reflect in there units sold.

    Tough choice!

    GUY: Totally agree

    BTW if you think for a second you are alone in going straight to the 180 on a fresh purchase trust me you are not alone. They are enjoying high sales right now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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