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Ultimate Landscape kit

dick

New member
The Sinar P3 is good, but heavy for back packing - what about an F3?

The Hasselblad H4D-60 is good for situations where there is too much movement for multi-shot. (You can use it hand-held too). ...looking forward to the battery pack for the H4D-60,

Sinar is probably the ultimate (trans)portable system, as it has daylight live view, Multi-shot, electronic eShutters. ¿86H?

Remote operation helps for use on a 10m tripod to eliminate unsuitable foregrounds.

Is the 80Mpx any better?

...and Schneider Apo-Digitar or Sinar lenses?

Is the Hasselblad 50 MS any good?
 

goesbang

Member
The Sinar P3 is good, but heavy for back packing - what about an F3?

The Hasselblad H4D-60 is good for situations where there is too much movement for multi-shot. (You can use it hand-held too). ...looking forward to the battery pack for the H4D-60,

Sinar is probably the ultimate (trans)portable system, as it has daylight live view, Multi-shot, electronic eShutters. ¿86H?

Remote operation helps for use on a 10m tripod to eliminate unsuitable foregrounds.

Is the 80Mpx any better?

...and Schneider Apo-Digitar or Sinar lenses?

Is the Hasselblad 50 MS any good?
I'm guessing you haven't noticed how many people here are shooting with technical cameras like the RM3d and the ALPA STC.......
 

dick

New member
I'm guessing you haven't noticed how many people here are shooting with technical cameras like the RM3d and the ALPA STC.......
I find it difficult to understand why such limiting pieces of kit are so popular...

I can understand that it would be nice to have a simple light weight camera that is adequate most of the time, but only if you also have a "proper" camera that takes the same set of mounted lenses.

I think that the Sinar P3 and F3 is about the only option?
 

vieri

Well-known member
Linhof Techno - small and light enough while offering all the movement you might ever need for landscape shooting and then some, support lenses from 23mm to 240mm and all digital backs around plus some film backs as well. It has a sliding back adapter for perfect stitching too. Or, it's lesser brother the Silvestri Bicam with sliding adapter and Flexibellows kit - slightly heavier, slightly less elegant, slightly less movements, quite a bit less expensive and still perfect for landscape.
 

dick

New member
Linhof Techno - small and light enough while offering all the movement you might ever need for landscape shooting and then some, support lenses from 23mm to 240mm and all digital backs around plus some film backs as well. It has a sliding back adapter for perfect stitching too. Or, it's lesser brother the Silvestri Bicam with sliding adapter and Flexibellows kit - slightly heavier, slightly less elegant, slightly less movements, quite a bit less expensive and still perfect for landscape.
I saw a techno at Paula's Linhoff Studio, but it did not seem a patch on a Sinar.

I have a Silvestri sliding adapter, and it will not focus, and it drops the digiback.
 

yatlee

Member
I have no experience with Cambo or Alpa. Here is my Techno with Kapture group three way stitching back. I used an ebony SW45 before this. I'm very happy with the rather quick setup, movement and rotating the back quickly. I even tried to use it with a 300mm lens (with extension tube).
 

vieri

Well-known member
I saw a techno at Paula's Linhoff Studio, but it did not seem a patch on a Sinar.

I have a Silvestri sliding adapter, and it will not focus, and it drops the digiback.
I have a Techno and it's a great camera, incredibly well built and working perfectly and precisely.

I had a Silvestri before that, I used it for all my USA pictures you can see here on the forum or

here

it did focus perfectly and of course didn't drop the digiback :ROTFL: sounds to me like user error on both counts...
 

dick

New member
I have no experience with Cambo or Alpa. Here is my Techno with Kapture group three way stitching back. I used an ebony SW45 before this. I'm very happy with the rather quick setup, movement and rotating the back quickly. I even tried to use it with a 300mm lens (with extension tube).
I thought about getting a Kapture Group sliding back, but they are horrendously expensive, and the Sinar has so much movement you do not need one.

The infinite extendability of the Sinar is great, especially for Macro. The P3 bellows is short, but I have two P3 to P2 conversion bellows, so I can put a meter or two of P2 in the middle of my P3!
 

dick

New member
I have a Techno and it's a great camera, incredibly well built and working perfectly and precisely.

I had a Silvestri before that, I used it for all my USA pictures you can see here on the forum or

here

it did focus perfectly and of course didn't drop the digiback :ROTFL: sounds to me like user error on both counts...
I am sure that the techno is perfectly adequate, most of the time, for shots for which you hardly need a tech cam.

I tried the Silvestri sliding back before we got live view... but it was sharp on the ground glass and blurred in the file.

The attachment catch for the Hasselblad digiback is very badly engineered and made... and I am a qualified and experienced engineer.

I have been ill for some considerable time - I need my head fixed and I am waiting for a head scan, and I find it no laughing matter being accused of incompetence.
 

vieri

Well-known member
I am sure that the techno is perfectly adequate, most of the time, for shots for which you hardly need a tech cam.

I tried the Silvestri sliding back before we got live view... but it was sharp on the ground glass and blurred in the file.

The attachment catch for the Hasselblad digiback is very badly engineered and made... and I am a qualified and experienced engineer.

I have been ill for some considerable time - I need my head fixed and I am waiting for a head scan, and I find it no laughing matter being accused of incompetence.
First of all, let me say that I am very sorry to hear about your health problems and wish you a prompt recovery.

Back to the matter at hand, to tell you the truth I found your snappy comments to which I first replied not quite conducive to a serene discussion, but I still tried to answer your points through my personal experience; I also find your opening comment in your last reply pretty sarcastic and - again - not conducive to a serene discussion but here I am again trying to answer your points:

- The Techno is perfectly adequate for taking shots where you need its features: it is not a full-fledged Tech camera nor pretend to be one, obviously doesn't have all the movement of one, but it offers way more than TS lenses could on any camera system out there and satisfies the need of the market for which it has been designed (landscape & architectural are the first coming to mind) - I hope this answers your belittling & sarcastic comment;

- The Silvestri: I never had a (Phase) back falling, and didn't find the catch poorly engineered, so that's what I can comment on, and did. I never had any problem in focussing with the Silvestri, so I shared my findings on that as well. From the new info you provided, it seems to me possible that there was a problem with your Hassy back adapter causing both focussing distance being off and the back not to be properly fixed to the camera; it is also possible that something went wrong in the production and assembly of the contraption, or while assembling it on the camera, that caused the problems - tolerances are so minimal that any of the above could have been the cause of both your problems.

- User error is hardly the same as incompetence, especially when talking about complex devices with such fine adjustments & tolerances such as these, and as you can easily see with a search is something that happens frequently in all of the fora and one of the main reasons for the fora's existence itself: helping each other through the sharing of experience and knowledge.
 

Don Libby

Well-known member
The answer to "Ultimate Landscape Kit" is really the $64,000 question. What will ultimately turn out to be your "ultimate kit" will in all likelihood differ from others.

Some people are content to shoot with a 35mm camera while others prefer medium format then there are the folks that shoot large format. There's simply is no winning answer here. What you'll receive are thoughts of others perspective as they searched for their own "ultimate kit".

I was very happy shooting landscape with a 35mm camera until I returned from Glacier National Park several years ago and "felt" I could do better with a different system. That feeling was my perspective of what I was able to achieve and felt I was limiting myself; I shortly fell into the abyss of medium format imagery.

My path has taken me to use a Mamiya AFDII and Kodak back (thanks Ken :D) which quickly lead me to a Phase One P30+ (again, thanks Ken :rolleyes:). The back stayed while the bodies changed and an accumulation of glass began. Then I took a trip to Alaska.

Returning from Alaska I suddenly felt the need for improvement; I was mainly looking at a better capture method for flat stitching. My next step was to acquire a tech camera and back to support it. I sold all my Mamiya gear within 5-months of getting the Cambo WRS/P45+ and haven't looked back.

I thought my own "pie in the sky ultimate landscape kit" would be the Cambo Ultima coupled with either a IQ180 or 160. The only reason I don't have this is that after trying it I quickly found the overall weight of the beast would be very limiting on how I'd use it. I quickly found that my "ultimate landscape kit" is exactly what I currently have; Cambo WRS/P45+ and a companion Leica M9.

I really don't believe there's a bad system out there - all you have to do is find the one that's right for you. I still remember an old car commercial where the spokeswoman asked "when you turn your car on does it return the favor?" The same hold true for our camera gear. My answer is hell yes!

You need to visit a reputable dealer in medium format as that'll give you best chance of answering your own question.

Good luck!

Don
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Bottom line all that really really counts is lens and sensor. How you get there is meaningless in IQ. Obviously good technique ( focused, movement and such) and processing are keys as well . But really the reality is the frame or body to get there is really just connecting the two dots.
 

dick

New member
First of all, let me say that I am very sorry to hear about your health problems and wish you a prompt recovery.
Thanks - I have a CT head scan booked for next week.
The Techno is perfectly adequate for taking shots where you need its features: it is not a full-fledged Tech camera nor pretend to be one, obviously doesn't have all the movement of one, but it offers way more than TS lenses could on any camera system out there and satisfies the need of the market for which it has been designed (landscape & architectural are the first coming to mind)
I chose the topic title, but versatility helps, and "Landscape photography" covers situations where you can get a car to within feet of the camera position to back-packing up a mountain... what I really want is a fully-fledged technical camera for close-to-car photography (and studio/arch etc) and a lightweight system that can use the same set of mounted lenses.
The Silvestri: I never had a (Phase) back falling, and didn't find the catch poorly engineered, so that's what I can comment on, and did. I never had any problem in focussing with the Silvestri, so I shared my findings on that as well. From the new info you provided, it seems to me possible that there was a problem with your Hassy back adapter causing both focussing distance being off and the back not to be properly fixed to the camera; it is also possible that something went wrong in the production and assembly of the contraption, or while assembling it on the camera, that caused the problems - tolerances are so minimal that any of the above could have been the cause of both your problems.
I think, as you say, it might be all to do with the Hassy adapter. Sinar do not use adapters - you buy another whole sliding back for another type of back!
Bottom line all that really really counts is lens and sensor. How you get there is meaningless in IQ. Obviously good technique ( focused, movement and such) and processing are keys as well . But really the reality is the frame or body to get there is really just connecting the two dots.
Yes, Guy, but if you have not got the movements (or the extension, etc.) you need for a shot you have to compromise... but the 2kg camera you have with you takes a better picture than the 7kg camera you left behind!
 

dick

New member
Does anybody make adapter boards - so that you can use the lightweight camera of your choice and then mount the lensboards in e.g. a standard 5*4 lensboard on an all-bells-and-whistles studio technical camera?
 

vieri

Well-known member
...

what I really want is a fully-fledged technical camera for close-to-car photography (and studio/arch etc) and a lightweight system that can use the same set of mounted lenses.

...
Well, I am afraid there isn't one single camera that cover all that including weight concerns; you might need to get two camera bodies part of the same system - to be used with the same set of lenses, same sliding adapter, back etc. A Techno (if you stay in the Linhof camp) for your portable need, a 679 for the studio ones or close-to-car ones. In the Silvestri camp, a Bicam and a S5 - other brands, I am not as familiar with so I'd rather not get into model-specific suggestions...
 

jonoslack

Active member
I thought my own "pie in the sky ultimate landscape kit" would be the Cambo Ultima coupled with either a IQ180 or 160. The only reason I don't have this is that after trying it I quickly found the overall weight of the beast would be very limiting on how I'd use it. I quickly found that my "ultimate landscape kit" is exactly what I currently have; Cambo WRS/P45+ and a companion Leica M9.
Hi Don
Nice post - My ultimate landscape kit is the same as yours . . . . without the Cambo - I just use an M9, I stitch if I need to, and I don't use a tripod. Of course there are IQ compromises, but people seem to like the images, and I like the simplicity.

all the best
 

dick

New member
what I really want is a fully-fledged technical camera for close-to-car photography (and studio/arch etc) and a lightweight system that can use the same set of mounted lenses.
Well, I am afraid there isn't one single camera that cover all that including weight concerns; you might need to get two camera bodies part of the same system - to be used with the same set of lenses, same sliding adapter, back etc. A Techno (if you stay in the Linhof camp) for your portable need, a 679 for the studio ones or close-to-car ones. In the Silvestri camp, a Bicam and a S5 - other brands, I am not as familiar with so I'd rather not get into model-specific suggestions...
Yes, thanks ...that is the type of system I had in mind...

Would a Sinar P3/P2/F3 system not achieve this?

The F3 is a lightweight camera with a full range of movements (but without the weight of the fully-geared movements) ... but I think it is not compatible with quite all of the P3 bits?

For remote use on my 10m tripod, the Sinar daylight live view with the LCD shutter, without ND filters would be very useful... does any other MF system give good daylight live view?

My Manfrotto Agnoscope 10m tripod comes with a CCTV system for viewing the focusing screen of a V sys Hasselblad!
 
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timwier

Member
I agree with Don. The best camera setup I have ever used for landscape is a technical camera (I use a CAMBO RS system) with a digital back. It is light, modular and very easy to use. Additionally, the shift/lift and stitching capabilities surpass anything I have used before. A 9 panel stitch with a P45+ produces usable detail that is sharp at 200%-300% crop.

The lens (Rodenstock and Schneider) are at a totally different level compared to Hasselblad, Leica (comes close), Nikon or Canon lens I have used. Throw on a 40, 50 or 60mp digital back and you can produce images that are not even imaginable with the very best 35mm or medium format camera.

Just my thoughts...

Have fun
 
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