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Thread: Phase P25 or P25+?

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    Phase P25 or P25+?

    Yesterday I found on ebay that the recent sales of the P25 have been at prices around 25-30% less than a new P21+ that I was seriously planning on buying. This, of course, has gotten my attention. Refurb P25 units, as recently posted by Lance, are a few thousand dollars less than the newer plus models.

    Now, having moved myself to the real possibility of changing my mind toward the purchase of the P25 or P25+ rather than the P21+, the question is whether the newer generation P25+ offers enough "improvement" in capture performance or output over the non-plus model to justify purchasing it instead of the P25. Yes, a warranty is important, and I will give this lots of consideration, but I'm wondering if the P25+ model is that much of an improvement to justify it instead of the non-plus model. Any thoughts? Thanks.

  2. #2
    dlew308
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Good question, all these model #'s are starting to confuse me. no plus, + , etc

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    All the specs for all the models are explained in detail on the PhaseOne site: http://www.phaseone.com/
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Probably the best person to answer this question would be Guy. He had the opportunity to use the P25 and now owns and uses the P25+.

    The P21/+ is an excellent system, but if you want a fuller-frame you can't beat the P25/+ .

    Remember you can always step up to a plus via an upgrade after you have had an opportunity to use the system.

    Lance Schad
    Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Well there both really nice the P25 and the Plus. The Plus gives you some advantages over the non -plus . For all the backs the LCD is better on the plus It is brighter and has sharper reviews also. The files look great but Phase has worked on some things to improve the plus series. Here is what Phase says from Lance

    Screen the non-plus is reflective LCD (better outdoors) and the plus backlight LCD @ about 2x the resolution approx 240,000 pixels.
    -ISO non plus 50-400 (on P20,P21,P25,P45) and 100-800 (p30) vs 50-800 (on P20+,P21+,P25+,P45+) and 100-1600 (P30+)
    -longer exposures on the plus series
    -unlimited burst lengths tethered or untethered.
    -Live preview standard on all Plus series, most refurbs come with it except P25's .
    -Plus series has OptiColor+,Dynamic+, and Xpose+ which all mean improvements in image quality.


    Now the biggies are the LCD and the ISO improvements . I get pretty clean ISO 800's and you will see a ton of them next week from the runway. The non Plus is good at ISO 400 and slower for the P25 and if you don't need the higher stop than a really good deal . For landscape and outdoor shooters the plus is not going to really buy you that much . Better LCD but you will still run for shade to see the LCD anyway. I used the P25 for about 3 days in San Juan along with the P30 plus and honestly you could not tell much of a difference. I think the P25 is a nice stepping stone into the MF world. i started with the ZD and although good I should have just went for it with Phase instead. Now the P25 does do a pretty darn clean ISO 400 and that maybe all someone truly needs. Now I just looked at the price of the P25 refrub. with new body and lens for 13k that is a steal. The body and lens on the street when Mamiya brings it out will be over 4k alone. BTW for the P21 plus new with body and lens there is a Phase promotion of 9900 euros which is more like 12k or something like that but the P21 is a crop sensor like the P30 Plus and 18 mpx. A lot of this depends on what you plan to shoot also.

    To me I tried the P25, P30 plus and the P45 plus. I liked them all but I went for the universal performer and cost savings from the P45 and got the p25 plus and there is something about the 9 micron sensors i really like and that has to do with the artist side, just has a nice look to it. Now you have to decide between the P25 and p25 plus than you have to see if the 6 to 8 k difference is worth it to you from a refrub. to a new setup of the P25 plus because trying to find a used p25 plus is a little tough to do. I figured I would go the Plus because i actually plan to hold on to this for a little while. I know very strange words coming out of my mouth but the is not a world of difference between them but a big step up the ladder from 35mm.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Thanks all, this is exactly what I needed. Now to weight the benefits and costs! Ray

  7. #7
    Samuel Axelsson
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Guy, just a little correction: the P20's ISO is 50-800, the P21 100-800. Both non plus.

  8. #8
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Really I did not know the non plus went to 800. I thought they were 400
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Okay all the plus series backs go to ISO 800 except the P30 plus goes to 1600. If the P21 went to 1600 i would buy it in a second as backup.

    http://www.phaseone.com/Content/p1di...TechSpecs.aspx
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Yup my bad sorry folks.

    The P21 shoots at 16 megapixels, with a 12-stop range and ISO 100 to 800. It captures up to 60 images per minute (two frames per second for 35mm-like performance). The P21 can write data up to 20 mb per second to internal media.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yup my bad sorry folks.

    The P21 shoots at 16 megapixels, with a 12-stop range and ISO 100 to 800. It captures up to 60 images per minute (two frames per second for 35mm-like performance). The P21 can write data up to 20 mb per second to internal media.
    It's not my product, but I believe the P21 captures 18 megapixels.

    Steve Hendrix
    www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    It is Steve , I copied that data from a website, should have fixed it. Thanks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Really I did not know the non plus went to 800. I thought they were 400
    The original P25 did 800 but used pixel binning. So the resulting file was about 18-20mb's I believe.
    Did not do that bad of a job.
    Lance Schad
    Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
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  14. #14
    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    another minor correction p20 non plus goes 50-800... at iso 800 it does not bin pixels like the p25 (either that or I don't know how to make it do it).

  15. #15
    Samuel Axelsson
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    That's correct, P21 is 18 Mpx. ISO 100-800 (very clean by the way)
    P20 is 16 Mpx with ISO 50-800.

    I've had both. The P21 is cleaner at 400-800, but I almost never used those anyway. On the contrary, the P20 looks much more like film.
    I'll post a copuple of examples later today...

    /Samuel

  16. #16
    Samuel Axelsson
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    Re: Phase P25 or P25+?

    Hi again, here's a couple of ISO 800 crops. Just a bit of NR in C1. I did this a bit fast so it colud be better with a little more time...

    P20:



    P21:



    /Samuel

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