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Thread: My Reality

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    My Reality

    I'm back to thinking a P65+. Feel like a yo yo on this. Several reasons
    I give up the Sony's for more sensor plus 15 mpx which is obviously better for me
    Full Frame viewing more than anything else. Having a crop sensor is not the problem it is the viewing on the DF
    My 35mm becomes a 22mm and the rest of my lenses like the 55mm becomes wider which i would like
    I feel a little weak in the knees with 40 mpx and this is after shooting all three backs for a week and many other times as well. The 60 is the balance point as the best all around file. The 180 is totally out so not going there in any thinking process.
    Ideally the 160 is the answer but 18k or more outlay is not.

    One other HUGE reason is upgradability . I can certainly get more value upgrading from the 65 given the history of Phase upgrades which I have been watching very closely for a long time.


    So I am really torn here . I want the tech badly but I gain no IQ

    Well have to see the new back tonight. I'm scared for my family. LOL

    Here is the other bottom line. Today and for the last year or so owning the P40+ i have never missed shots because the back did not give me the data I needed to start with. I have always nailed every situation and shoot. Its not like I absolutely need the tech at all, i'm to damn good a photographer to start with and no tech is REALLY going to help me. I say that in all honesty not modesty

    I will not get a IQ 140 for maybe 3 months and the deals on the P65 are soon as the 180 hits your doors. Another words i could be shooting a P65 in two weeks if not sooner.

    Next year I can always upgrade to the IQ but I will have more buying power.

    Better print this e-mail and post it above my desk as a reminder after I work the 180 tech tonight. LOL I sent this to Jack,Bob and Terry ALL IQ 180 owners or soon to be

    Other reason if I shot a tech cam it would be a no brainer a IQ is the answer but my chance at buying a tech cam are pretty frigging remote to start with. It honestly would be a bad business decision given what I shoot today. Architecture than it would be a different ball game and even so i could always rent , borrow or steal a tech cam on a project big enough.

    This is just too ****ing logical and scaring me. Back to dreaming. LOL

    Taking donations for a shrink.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  2. #2
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    See you think you have trouble making these kinds of decisions and after 35 years you would think this would be a no brainer for me. NOT

    This is the kind of homework I pound in you folks to do.

    Than I read my quote below and scratch my head.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Hey Guy, that sound like a massive rationalization not to get an IQ

    Seriously, I am a bit in a similar situation - got the P65+, and would love the IQ features without needing necessarily all these extra MP; however, side-grading to the IQ160 is probably the worse possible move: 10+ euro-K for a screen and a couple other features, while adding a couple of euro-grand would bring me to the IQ180... Of course, the best solution is to stay with the P65+ which is great to begin with...

    ...I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180, I don't need an IQ 180...
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Yea but if i had a P65+ than that damn IQ 180 would be begging me to buy it. I know in my heart the P65+ would be a stop gap to the IQ 180. This just sucks.

    The bottom line is the side grading for me and not sure it makes sense to get the IQ 140 as it buys me nothing in IQ. I know everyone else thinking side grading is going through the same torture.

    I know I try to be the best damn shrink around here for everyone else but this situation I have no real answer for OR reality is I know the answer is the P65+ and make this a two step process to the IQ but I refuse to buy into it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  5. #5
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yea but if i had a P65+ than that damn IQ 180 would be begging me to buy it. I know in my heart the P65+ would be a stop gap to the IQ 180. This just sucks.

    The bottom line is the side grading for me and not sure it makes sense to get the IQ 140 as it buys me nothing in IQ. I know everyone else thinking side grading is going through the same torture.
    I sure am Yep, I agree that side grading is the less smart way out of the problem IMHO - no gain in IQ, a lot of money to get what, a nice shell, screen (which should have been in the Pxx+ series already!), and a few more feature, the best of which are for IQ180 buyers only, too... no, that IQ180 has my name on it, resistance is futile!

    (now, can you lend me one of your old sky masks?)
    Vieri Bottazzini
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  6. #6
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: My Reality

    And to think I'm still totally jazzed with my 28mp sensor...

    I refuse to look closely at any files from these higher tier products for fear that the magical smile I get when opening up 28mp (after only shooting 35mm digital my whole career) will disappear.

    I think the 65+ makes total sense for you as a photographer. You get a similar product to what you have now (which you use to great affect), only with a bit better IQ and more access to wide angle. BUT (TBH), unless you need those things... that 40+ sure works well for you.

  7. #7
    Super Duper
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    Re: My Reality

    Guy - very good thoughts.

    I too have thought about the P65's that will soon be hitting the streets especially Ken's after he gets his IQ180. I too don't think an IQ will make me a better photographer; it would make my life a little easier but at what cost?

    I can see stepping up to the P65 now that the deals will be out there versus upgrading into one a year ago. The P65 will offer a better resolution than my P45+ yet be less expensive than jumping into an IQ. I've figured I can keep doing what I've been doing when checking the focus - instead of a tap on the screen I've been clicking the magnifier a couple times and moving it around.

    While live view would be nice to have it isn't necessary for what I do and like you I could always upgrade later on.

    While I'm looking forward to seeing what that IQ180 can do tonight I'm sacred that I might like it too much and have to explain to Sandy what I did.

    I think we're in deep do-do here!
    Don Libby
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Yep your right Shelby, I'm still hitting them out of the park with the P40+ and that is the other brain fart going on in my head.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: My Reality

    Go for the H4D-60 ..or better just save the cash, you never know what will be next..

    its every 6 months something come up.

    BlasR

  10. #10
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Guy - very good thoughts.

    I too have thought about the P65's that will soon be hitting the streets especially Ken's after he gets his IQ180. I too don't think an IQ will make me a better photographer; it would make my life a little easier but at what cost?

    I can see stepping up to the P65 now that the deals will be out there versus upgrading into one a year ago. The P65 will offer a better resolution than my P45+ yet be less expensive than jumping into an IQ. I've figured I can keep doing what I've been doing when checking the focus - instead of a tap on the screen I've been clicking the magnifier a couple times and moving it around.

    While live view would be nice to have it isn't necessary for what I do and like you I could always upgrade later on.

    While I'm looking forward to seeing what that IQ180 can do tonight I'm sacred that I might like it too much and have to explain to Sandy what I did.

    I think we're in deep do-do here!
    I think some serious drinking is in order here. For you though I do think the P65+ is the better answer over your P45+ today as i like this sensor better in many ways . More DR , more tonal range and more neutral color tone for you which i think would fit you better plus you can get some ISO when you need the speed in landscape to stop some wind action. I know the 1 minute exposure is in your crawl space but I think you can get by. BTW it will go 90 seconds too as I have done it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #11
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    Re: My Reality

    Guy, if you can't afford the IQ180 at present and the P40+ is still hitting the mark IMO a P65+ would be a waist of money. If your going to a tech camera a P65+ would be a worthy move but just to use on the DF you'll only really gain a few more MP. Also to buy a P65+ now with the sole intention to upgrade in 12 months is just daft.

    IMO, keep the money and save for the next gen when I have a feeling we'll see new camera and new chip technology and having the cash saved you'll be first in the que.

  12. #12
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Yup also a very good point. I don't mind putting out some money and have to really look at my bottom line pricing on this . But yea the P40 is doing me no harm at all. It's a great back and highly recommend over almost anything else.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #13
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Hmmm,
    I am about 20% considering whether to cancel my 180 and get out of MF altogether, at which point I'll be selling the p65+ at a very good price if to someone I know and trust (that's you, Guy!) and also a DF body, Phase 80 and 28mm lenses and Schneider 110 ls, cambo wide rs with Schneider 35 xl.

    The only thing I'd keep is the cube...

    Hmmmm...

  14. #14
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hmmm,
    I am about 20% considering whether to cancel my 180 and get out of MF altogether, at which point I'll be selling the p65+ at a very good price if to someone I know and trust (that's you, Guy!) and also a DF body, Phase 80 and 28mm lenses and Schneider 110 ls, cambo wide rs with Schneider 35 xl.

    The only thing I'd keep is the cube...

    Hmmmm...
    Tim, that's a surprise - would you care to expand on your reasoning behind such (possible) decision? Thanks!
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Yea like to hear that as well. I'm off to a shoot, check in later folks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  16. #16
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Tim, that's a surprise - would you care to expand on your reasoning behind such (possible) decision? Thanks!
    The reason is a bit of a jumble but...

    1) I've been in MF for a while now and very few of the shots I have taken have made it into my personal 'hall of fame' of shots I really like.
    2) My fine art print sales in limited editions have taken off and are at much higher prices than before, and it really doesn't matter to the buyers what they were shot on. 5dII, M9, Ricoh GRD, whatever...
    3) MF is such a hassle. I hate LCCs and all that. If there was reliable, zoomable, daylight live view with no LCCs I'd be more excited. Even then, I sigh when I hoik the bag up onto my shoulder and schlep off into the field with all that stuff. It weighs down my body and my mind and it makes my work too formal. I personally am passionately anti the traditional MF landscape look (graduated sky, foreground interest, lead in lines, blah blah blah) and increasingly favour a more fluid and purposely less 'technical' look.
    4) I have too much gear and it's getting in the way of my photography. I really mean Waaaay too much gear.

    Hmmmm..

  17. #17
    Garcia
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    Re: My Reality

    If isn't going to be an IQ, why not a Leaf 10 or 12?

    Same Dalsa manufactured CCD, same C1 software, same company, but a huge step forward in LCD screen and GUI compared to any pXX+ series.

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    Re: My Reality

    Guy -
    I guess clears up your note a week ago on LL that you were going after an IQ 140.

    FWIW, what about the Leaf with the rotating back? Its the cats meow... although by now, you must know the Phase user-interface well...

    Best not to look at the IQ180 again.... it'll suck the bank account dry!

    Best.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Good question, Garcia.

    I also have to wonder how many more prints you might sell using an IQ180 over a P65+. My guess is none, actually. I doubt that the IQ back would bring you any more clients for commissioned work either. On the other hand, that price difference could be used to buy a lot of other useful gear, or flights to fantastic locations which would really give you something to shoot.

    Time to join Gearaholics Anonymous! (I'm kidding - I know you were a founding member)

  20. #20
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Guy, am I right that you before thought of moving sideways from P40+ to IQ140? Is the actual image quality superior or was it more of other bonuses, like focus confirmation, faster etc etc?
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    My Reality

    although I am very new to the game (I recently entered into it with a P40+), after reviewing the options and expenses of upgrading, I think any additional money spent right now is better spent on glass. Reading about what is coming down the line in the Schneider part of the world tells me that is where I am headed.

    Just saying, bang for the buck?

  22. #22
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Jacks reports are killing me. Will see it tonight. Bottom line I want it all with my sugarless cake no less. GetDPI is hiring a shrink. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  24. #24
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Guy, am I right that you before thought of moving sideways from P40+ to IQ140? Is the actual image quality superior or was it more of other bonuses, like focus confirmation, faster etc etc?
    same sensor just all new tech that is very very nice. I'm not losing here and I am gaining convenience and easier shooting. Now there maybe some firmware , features benefits not sure. Have to see when they release the 140 what's in the tank.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Here is the other bottom line. Today and for the last year or so owning the P40+ i have never missed shots because the back did not give me the data I needed to start with. I have always nailed every situation and shoot. Its not like I absolutely need the tech at all, i'm to damn good a photographer to start with and no tech is REALLY going to help me. I say that in all honesty not modesty
    Okay, been shooting the IQ180 a lot of today. Here's my take on the new tech: You're correct, we don't *need* it. But now that I've used it for a day, that's like saying we don't need a histogram -- I mean we both started in the days before histograms and did okay, but life would be different today without it... Seriously, the tech on this new back compared to the old one is like comparing your iPhone to a 12-button land-line desk phone!

    And that's me helping
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    The reason is a bit of a jumble but...

    2) My fine art print sales in limited editions have taken off and are at much higher prices than before, and it really doesn't matter to the buyers what they were shot on. 5dII, M9, Ricoh GRD, whatever...
    May be a jumble, but that answers it ---- and CONGRATULATIONS!!!

    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Angry Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Okay, been shooting the IQ180 a lot of today. Here's my take on the new tech: You're correct, we don't *need* it. But now that I've used it for a day, that's like saying we don't need a histogram -- I mean we both started in the days before histograms and did okay, but life would be different today without it... Seriously, the tech on this new back compared to the old one is like comparing your iPhone to a 12-button land-line desk phone!

    And that's me helping
    This comes under the category of "cruel & unnecessary suffering/punishment" ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  28. #28
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    This comes under the category of "cruel & unnecessary suffering/punishment" ...
    I know. But you were there in Grand Canyon with us when we both stated we really didn't need the new tech, but if we had tech cameras we'd definitely be going for it. The reality for me after just one day of having it on my DF camera is I can't go back
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Well, that's definitely a good sign. When you instantly know things are so much better it's normally a good sign.

    The rest of us will have to just put up with living vicariously through you fortunate early IQ180 owners until our backs ripple through to production. I feel Guy's dilemma but I suspect that more hands on with an IQ will sort it out pretty quickly - I know how incredibly patient he is
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: My Reality

    I have gone back to first love- fast cars.

  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I know. But you were there in Grand Canyon with us when we both stated we really didn't need the new tech, but if we had tech cameras we'd definitely be going for it. The reality for me after just one day of having it on my DF camera is I can't go back
    Your just a **** load of help. Okay looked at it and nothing like the prototype. My family maybe in trouble. LOl
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I have gone back to first love- fast cars.
    Hmm, been there, done that, this is MUCH less expensive!!! (not to say that fast cars don't have their appeal any more )
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  33. #33
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Guy, you're a skilled pro, my friend—let me put the equation the other way around:

    In what way does your present P40+ back stop you from doing what you need to do, photographically?

    I'm probably not much help either, but (and I am echoing tashley here, but putting it a different way) which of your customers are asking for more MP?

    Sorry! Cheers and look forward to hooking up later in the year. Cheers, Kit

  34. #34
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by kit laughlin View Post
    I'm probably not much help either, but (and I am echoing tashley here, but putting it a different way) which of your customers are asking for more MP?
    The one sitting on his shoulder, whispering in his ear........

  35. #35
    Member erick.boileau's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    why do you want to make your life more complicated with 80 mp ?
    only for a good LCD and 2 or 3 unnecessaries options
    Last edited by erick.boileau; 12th May 2011 at 03:46.

  36. #36
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    The reason is a bit of a jumble but...

    1) I've been in MF for a while now and very few of the shots I have taken have made it into my personal 'hall of fame' of shots I really like.
    2) My fine art print sales in limited editions have taken off and are at much higher prices than before, and it really doesn't matter to the buyers what they were shot on. 5dII, M9, Ricoh GRD, whatever...
    3) MF is such a hassle. I hate LCCs and all that. If there was reliable, zoomable, daylight live view with no LCCs I'd be more excited. Even then, I sigh when I hoik the bag up onto my shoulder and schlep off into the field with all that stuff. It weighs down my body and my mind and it makes my work too formal. I personally am passionately anti the traditional MF landscape look (graduated sky, foreground interest, lead in lines, blah blah blah) and increasingly favour a more fluid and purposely less 'technical' look.
    4) I have too much gear and it's getting in the way of my photography. I really mean Waaaay too much gear.

    Hmmmm..
    Tim, thank you for your answer - all your points make sense of course, and except nr. 3 and partially nr. 2 they are all very personal to you and what your imagine-creating process is, so let me just play the devil's advocate for nr. 2 and 3.
    Nr. 2: first of all, CONGRATS! I am very happy for you, well deserved. More into the point though, while is true that no customer really care about the gear you used, I am pretty sure that they all care about your images' IQ - so if you don't mind, I am very interested in a couple of more detailed points here, of course if you were willing to share this with us: first, what is the largest size you print your images at? Second, what kind of gear allows you to both feel free in your image-creating while at the same time providing you with the IQ you and your customers need? Or to put it differently, what gear are you instinctively reaching out to first when you go out?
    Nr. 3: Agreed on the first part, I am pretty sure nobody loves LCC and we all would do without if at all possible - however, once you created your profiles for the different lenses that need them, it is a pretty straightforward process, just one more step in the digital workflow; as much as I don't like to hassle with them, to me personally LCC use wouldn't be enough of a reason to give up to the IQ that a tech cam with the P65+ and Rodenstock/Schneider lenses provides.
    Gear size and weight, of course that is a major concern; while the Phase kit is definitely too big and heavy, a tech camera with 3 lenses and a back is way smaller and comparable in size & weight to a DSLR, or even lighter. It is not comparable of course to a compact camera, or to a m4/3-based or M9-based system, so am I right in assuming that these are the solutions you are thinking about to replace MF?
    The last part of your Nr. 3 point is in fact the most interesting for me under a philosophical point of view, however IMO it is very difficult for me to define it as a "traditional MF landscape look": I'd rather describe it more generally as a "traditional landscape look", having seen it done by everyone with any kind of equipment. To me, what using a tech cam (or MF) does is forcing one to spend more time for each frame, more so for a tech cam of course; this is not related to achieving a particular look, 'cause obviously you can spend more time searching for all kinds of composition and looks: I'd see it more related to a spontaneous approach to shooting versus a more analytical one, if that makes sense, and of course here personal preferences and shooting styles are all that count.

    Looking forward to hearing from you on the above, and thanks again for sharing your thoughts
    Vieri Bottazzini
    Leica Ambassador | Formatt-Hitech Ambassador | ABIPP EP
    VIERI BOTTAZZINI PHOTOGRAPHER | VIERI BOTTAZZINI WORKSHOPS | VIERI BOTTAZZINI FINE ART

  37. #37
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Hmm, been there, done that, this is MUCH less expensive!!! (not to say that fast cars don't have their appeal any more )
    Yes they are more expensive - but they depreciate less than MF digital backs do in percentage terms ...

    My original thought on Guy's open letter was along the lines of " I wonder to what extent we witness a type of group psychosis in here regarding gear.."

    Then I realized that for Guy this is his bread and butter and a serious decision as in his tools of trade..

    As a silly hobbyist I am happy to have arrived at a point with gear probably closer to Tashley above- I have waaaaay too much gear and it is all mostly collecting dust....

    So I am now justifying a stupid car by telling myself I will go on weekend drives and take some camera gear with me.. fortunately i am married to a low maintenance type wife who encourages me to buy whatever I feel like - cos she thinks it is all very funny boys toys stuff - her greatest fear is me becoming a boring middle aged grumpy too soon

    Maybe I need to do some spring cleaning and get rid of all the gear I don't use...now that is a thought..

  38. #38
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Morning guys got to see the back last night and yes on a sex meter it is certainly a 10. No question and Don Libby are going out this morning to play with it with his Cambo and the DF just to see it in action. Than tonight with Daves request I hired a model for us to shoot.

    But i wanted to clear up a few comments. First I am not after buying a IQ 180 as it is simply to much money going from a P40+. If you look at the promotions or upgrade paths about 90 percent of the upgrades to the IQ 180 are coming from current P65+ shooters as doing a cross grade to a IQ 160 for them is only a couple grand less so for a few thousand those folks are far better off just going for the IQ 180 80 mpx back plus it is the first back out as well. So in short it is a buy decision for them to just get the 180 as it is the better deal forget the amount of mpx that is not really what they after.

    The simple fact for me is the difference between buying a used P65+ and a new IQ 140 is almost the same money and that is why my ears perked up on what to do.

    Problem is i don't really even need 60 mpx be nice but not a NEED but I would like to have the bump in Sensor Plus going from 10 mpx to 15 mpx as that eliminates the 35m DSLR completely for me. So that is one reason I want the P65. The other is what i think many did not grasp in my opening comments was my man issue today with the crop sensor

    "Full Frame viewing more than anything else. Having a crop sensor is not the problem it is the viewing on the DF"

    This is and has been a bone of contention for me with the P40+ and would continue with a IQ 140 is the crop line in the finder that I have to deal with and I shoot many fast ongoing things and the crop causes more strain on me to STAY WITHIN THE LINES. LOL

    This is why the P65+ is really on my radar screen not the mpx but my viewing and have to admit a lot of times I would rather shoot the full frame than the crop. I can deal with it as i have for quite a awhile but if I can switch for money that is pretty close it does become a serious option for a P65+ plus a few other things as well like more buying power later and such. So no i do Not need more than 40MPX but certainly would not kill me either.

    What needs to be done is the New body whenever that comes is eliminate the crop in the finder with a device that you can set your sensor size and the finder ONLY shows you that size by means of magnifying it. I cant count on that being a feature on the new body coming. The crop sensor itself is meaningless to me it is the viewing that is something that is in my crawl space.

    So my dilemma or real solution which solves everything is the IQ 160 as I get the tech and I get the Full Frame and I am basically done for a long time. I just cant pull that rabbit out of my hat but I can afford a IQ 140 upgrade or a used P65+. Hence my yo yo status
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  39. #39
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Yes they are more expensive - but they depreciate less than MF digital backs do in percentage terms ...

    My original thought on Guy's open letter was along the lines of " I wonder to what extent we witness a type of group psychosis in here regarding gear.."

    Then I realized that for Guy this is his bread and butter and a serious decision as in his tools of trade..

    As a silly hobbyist I am happy to have arrived at a point with gear probably closer to Tashley above- I have waaaaay too much gear and it is all mostly collecting dust....

    So I am now justifying a stupid car by telling myself I will go on weekend drives and take some camera gear with me.. fortunately i am married to a low maintenance type wife who encourages me to buy whatever I feel like - cos she thinks it is all very funny boys toys stuff - her greatest fear is me becoming a boring middle aged grumpy too soon

    Maybe I need to do some spring cleaning and get rid of all the gear I don't use...now that is a thought..
    Yes and I can see that too but for the hobbyist I say why the hell not. If it is what you enjoy and can comfortable afford than go for it.

    I said something last night to some friends . Go down to Miami and go to the harbor side and count the boats as far as your bloody eye can see than count the money from maybe 150 k to a couple Million per copy than whatever gear your buying is a freaking bargain. LOL

    Seriously photography is a damn cheap hobby. Enjoy the time on earth with it.

    For me it is a business so I need to make responsible business decisions or at least I am supposed to. So my struggles here are fun for you folks to laugh at but I know you do see them and relate but you folks don't have to follow my logic and just go have fun. Seriously when I am on these workshops and these folks have all the fun stuff i get a real kick out of seeing them have a blast with it. Believe me it brings me a lot of joy.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  40. #40
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    Re: My Reality

    I spend some of my days helping folks that spend tons on compute systems and software to make those decisions. ROI/out sourcing vs in sourcing/how much power/ new AC?

    Way way too much work for my hobby.

    Now to Guys issues: These are business decisions: period! [full stop as they say on the other side of the pond]

    Spent way to long having it beat into my head, the only way to make them correctly is to look at your return on investment. Will it give you a better product that you clients will BUY. If not, ROI sucks, don't do it. Did you loose X jobs to OTHER GUY because he had a P65+ and could deliver the goods where the P40 didn't, how many jobs? How much money lost? Will owning a tech camera open a new market to sell something? How will you market that, how much will that cost vs revenue over time. Does our tax regime have a weird loophole that makes this more viable than it seems at first blush? Is there some kind of efficiency gain that is going to let you squeak in three extra shoots a year?

    Those types of questions are part of my day job. For my hobby, I just buy the wife an iThingy for her birthday and don't really go into how much I spend on my gear other than to point out it's less expensive than an Italian car, American motorcycle, and way cheaper than a Bass Boat!

    JMHO/YMMV

    Dave

  41. #41
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Guy, I get the WYSIWYG in the finder thing totally. That (for me) would be reason enough to go the P65+, and why I needed to go FF (135) as soon as the 5D, then D3, was released. Good luck with the P65+. FF is the way to go in any format, IMHO, for many reasons.

  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Honestly Kit this is what is driving me more than anything. My problem or asset depending how you look at things is i am a very visual person as i should be being a photographer as well as many here and when you start impeding the visual aspects when you shoot it becomes a issue. Its not the sensor at all it is the viewing and man I wish the new body could solve that. I mean i could black it out too and tried it but for some reason bugs me. What I know is going to kill me is this LCD integration on the IQ backs is honestly folks a major game changer and i will call it right now the absolute best integrated LCD layout in ALL of photography. There simply is nothing like it and it completely smokes the prototype I used for quite a bit of shooting too already. Anyone going into MF now or existing shooters takes one look at this thing and you head is going to spin it is that nice and i am very hard to impress when it comes to this stuff. I know Jack is working hard on his review and Jack besides being my business partner here is also my best friend and when he gets excited than I know something is up.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  43. #43
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    Re: My Reality

    I don't have time to read all these replies, but as a P65+ owner, who is upgrading, I can tell you that someone is going to get a damn fine used back with mine. The DR is amazing.

    If you work with a DF, there really is little to justify the extra features on an IQ. I've taken tens of thousands of images this way, and been very happy.

    I'm only upgrading as I can never get enough pixels (my prints are b-i-g) but otherwise some lucky so and so is getting a very good P65+ Dalsa sensor with terrific DR and best in class color.

  44. #44
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So my dilemma or real solution which solves everything is the IQ 160 as I get the tech and I get the Full Frame and I am basically done for a long time.
    Don't think you could every say that.

    Hypothetically, what happens if in 2 years Phase release a brilliant new camera with GPS, wireless and removeable finders that smokes the Blad H cameras and a 100MP CMOS IQ back with all the current features plus real live view, 13 stops DR and video?

    I know I'd sell a kidney for all that in MFD and 35mm can go for good!

  45. #45
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    I know, I know never ever ever say never. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #46
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So my dilemma or real solution which solves everything is the IQ 160
    I agree totally , with the 160 you get all what you need, enough pixels , FF and new sexy features
    and your computer (Mac I guess) will love the IQ160 much more than the 180

  47. #47
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    Re: My Reality

    Yup I may just have to go visit a lender. See my real solution is right there in the 160
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #48
    richard.L
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    Re: My Reality

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hmmm,
    ---
    The only thing I'd keep is the cube...

    Hmmmm...
    only because I read thread to here and felt compelled to jump in.
    Often I consider buying equipment, then find that I am "sharpening the pencil" -- a phrase a writer gave me for what "he" does when he can't write. He meant that instead of writing he would sharpen his pencil, arrange his desk, etc... --

    I talk now as someone not with any client other than myself, but I do think you may have the answer...

    Richard, thinking that we buy pencils and paper when what we really want is to make poetry.

  49. #49
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    Re: My Reality

    My wife is the one who convinced me to order the 180 Guy. I have no clients, and all of my shooting is for myself, but my legacy will be in the files I produce between now and when I quit shooting, and she said that I might as well capture the very best that I can do with whatever tools are available right now since most of what I shoot can never be repeated. What is "too many" mps now will be peanuts in the future. Made perfect sense to me (which is also why I got a medium-format digital system in the first place several years ago). I can't take any cash with me when I go, but my images hopefully will be around for a long time to be printed and viewed and I want them to be the very best it was possible for me to make...

  50. #50
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: My Reality

    Well I did find one wart last night, so hold onto your wallet!!!

    If you over-sharpen and add clarity to an ISO 35 file and peer deep into the lowest levels of the image with your monitor brightness cranked up, you get visible NOISE! Of course you also get image detail in that noise where my P65+ would have only given me black LOLOLOLOL!!!

    Full image:



    Here's the crop -- if you look deep into the shadows you can see some noise. If you crank the brightness up on your display, you can read the sign on the inside wall in the deepest shadow between the fence rails. At normal monitor brightness (around 140 lumens) we only have a hint the sign is even there:



    To save you all the trouble of adjusting your monitor, here is a similar crop from the same file reprocessed in C1 with exposure bumped to C1's 2.5 stop max, but without the added clarity and sharpening. Note the noise is there, but for all intents and purposes it is trivial even at this extreme shadow push:



    Guy, does this help you feel better about passing on it?

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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