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Thread: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    similar with the cambo (shifts on the back), but you get both T and S on the lens.
    John, that is a big advantage of the Cambo system -- tilts AND swings together on the lens for total control over the PoF. The downside is it's design requires more room so only lenses with longer flange-focal lengths can be mounted for TS. With the Arca, you can theoretically tilt (or swing) even the 23mm lens, but you cannot tilt and swing together with any lens.

    I have spent months analyzing the different features and trade-offs on all of the tech cam choices, and the reality is the main line offerings all have their places depending on an individual shooter's preferences.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Is there subtle horizontal banding around the "shifted cross" mag view?

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    By 10% I meant 10% of the total IC -- so if a lens has a 100mm IC, you can probably safely shift 10mm in any direction with little resolution loss and limited light falloff. As you get further out, resolution falloff AND light falloff AND distortions AND curvature of field all go downhill geometrically, so massive shifts can become problematic for some images. However, I maintain that it is very often not crucial to the image integrity that corners be "perfect", so this gives significantly more shift freedom for artistic purposes, at least IMHO... On the other side of this coin is with 80MP available in a single cpature, and even more if we stitch, it is probably advisable when in doubt, to shoot a little loose and crop.



    No, at least not as far as I'm concerned! One of the main reasons I like the Acra RM design is the fact that both Rise/Fall and Shift movements are on the REAR standard so planar stitching, and even multi-row planar capture is a breeze. Then combined with the way it imparts tilt (or swing) I can do a horizontal planar capture WITH TILTS enabled, or a Vertical planar stitch with swing enabled. Obviously we cannot cross tilt/swing and shift/rise axis when doing a planar capture.
    Interesting - a number of the mid-wide Schneiders might be quite usable at 12mm - planar stitch for a nice 4x5 aspect ratio. For multi row you'll obviously be going to longer focal lengths.

    I'd love to see how the Schneider 72 works out - with a 90mm image circle 12mm of shift would be pressing it a bit under your formula.

    By the way with the Max all rises and shifts are done with the back if you buy the doodad that attaches the front standard to the tripod. Tilts are limited to focal lengths of 80mm and longer and can be done in the front or the back, depending on where you put the tilt adapter.

  4. #254
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe View Post
    Is there subtle horizontal banding around the "shifted cross" mag view?
    Yes. One of the issues with the Hasselblad back.

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    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Woody,

    Thanks so much for going to the time and trouble to post those examples! A super exposition.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    When i was shooting the blad 40mm was used more than my 28
    So i got the 43 for the cambo; that and i will be going full frame, figure i can shift or pano for really wide
    Horses for courses

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Interesting - a number of the mid-wide Schneiders might be quite usable at 12mm - planar stitch for a nice 4x5 aspect ratio. For multi row you'll obviously be going to longer focal lengths.

    I'd love to see how the Schneider 72 works out - with a 90mm image circle 12mm of shift would be pressing it a bit under your formula.
    Please keep in mind that my 10% is a general guide only, so it may vary significantly between lenses and is not offered as anything other than a rough guideline to set expectations.

    By the way with the Max all rises and shifts are done with the back if you buy the doodad that attaches the front standard to the tripod. Tilts are limited to focal lengths of 80mm and longer and can be done in the front or the back, depending on where you put the tilt adapter.
    I was aware of that, but that doodad compromises the net portability of the package a bit, doesn't it? The real killer for me on Alpa was the tilts being limited to longer lenses only.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    When i was shooting the blad 40mm was used more than my 28
    So i got the 43 for the cambo; that and i will be going full frame, figure i can shift or pano for really wide
    Horses for courses
    My thinking as well
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post

    ... that doodad compromises the net portability of the package a bit, doesn't it? The real killer for me on Alpa was the tilts being limited to longer lenses only.
    Jack, actually the stitching adapter foot doesn't really affect the portability of the Max much at all. Once you've figured on having a big plate camera body the front mounted foot doesn't really make a lot of difference overall in my experience. If necessary you can also store the body in the bag with the front rise set to it's highest position which minimizes the additional space taken by the foot. Now if we were talking about portability with the viewfinder attached then it's a different matter.

    The ability to tilt wides on the Arca is a nice feature and probably my only complaint about the Alpa actually.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Thanks for the clarification Graham -- makes total sense. And finders on any of these cameras definitely add size...
    Jack
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Woody, thanks for the comparison. Very instructive. I look forward to hearing your decision.

    My use of a 10% shift limit accords with Jack's. I seem to get OK results with10% in any direction - with Rodenstocks. My targets are often 30-50 feet away from the camera. I wonder if focusing before infinity helps a bit with casts. My worst case would be combined XY movements (eg 2 rows x 2 columns) with a bright sky, looking for casts and compression artefacts in the corners. Lots to experiment with on the new back.

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    Woody, thanks for the comparison. Very instructive. I look forward to hearing your decision.

    My use of a 10% shift limit accords with Jack's. I seem to get OK results with10% in any direction - with Rodenstocks. My targets are often 30-50 feet away from the camera. I wonder if focusing before infinity helps a bit with casts. My worst case would be combined XY movements (eg 2 rows x 2 columns) with a bright sky, looking for casts and compression artefacts in the corners. Lots to experiment with on the new back.
    keep us informed - 10% in both x and y to make a four panel stitch starts to get interesting.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    keep us informed - 10% in both x and y to make a four panel stitch starts to get interesting.
    Woody - on post 171 Jack shows 12.5mm shift in each direction with the 43mm and then he stitched them together.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=171





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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    @ Woody

    I read that you tested the hr32 with 17mm shift both left and right for a stitch. The sharpness shifted this much seems quite impressive. Did you try even further shift, or was the 17mm the maximum you tried?

    I am not interested in stitching, but vertical shots with lots of rise for architectual shots so it would be interesting to know the absolute limit of rise for this lens. I am hoping 20mm with a 37x49 sensor

    I suppose/hope that the Alpa correction software can deal with the distortion in a good way with single shots.
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    @ Woody

    I read that you tested the hr32 with 17mm shift both left and right for a stitch. The sharpness shifted this much seems quite impressive. Did you try even further shift, or was the 17mm the maximum you tried?

    I am not interested in stitching, but vertical shots with lots of rise for architectual shots so it would be interesting to know the absolute limit of rise for this lens. I am hoping 20mm with a 37x49 sensor

    I suppose/hope that the Alpa correction software can deal with the distortion in a good way with single shots.
    If you page up to the third page of this thread you will see crops from the 17mm shift (along the short axis) - they are amazingly good. This was 17mm with a 40x54 back - 17mm is the maximum shift with my Alpa Max. If I'm doing the math correctly this lens should provide the shift that you need with smaller sensor. Somewhere in this thread I tried the Alpa correction software with this lens and in worked perfectly. Note that in CS 5 it only works on 32 bit mode.

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Great - thanks! Then I would say that IF the Alpa correction software can deal with the distortion issue, then this lens must be it for wides and movements.

    The suggestion is that the hr40 gives about the same amount/type of distortion as the hr32, does anyone know if that goes for the hr50 as well?

    I am so back and forth on a pair of wides for architecture, I've been all over the place, but as it is right now, I am leaning towards the hr32 and hr50 with a 37x49 sensor.
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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