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Thread: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

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    Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I don't want to start a war or anything I just wanted to post some of my feelings. I will write a very focused review about Schneider and Rodenstock lenses.

    I just came back today from snapping a few very quick test images with both the Schneider 43 and Rodenstock 40. While in a lot of aspects the Schneider lens might be the better choice for the P65 and so on, I'm not so sure about the IQ180. I don't want to scare people, but that is just my early feeling.

    I mean the Schneider is a lot smaller, is cheaper, has less distortion and is a great lens. However the color cast was very stong. (As can be seen in Guy's post somewhere here) Sure LCC works, but right now not perfectly. The finished files looks quite nice, but there is still to much red in the corners.

    I will come back to this topic after more testing and reviewing. Sorry could take a little, I'm quite busy preparing for a trip in June.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Ughhh,
    I've been asking about this for a while. I was told the new version of C1 got rid of the banding problems and was better with LCC's. Are the color problems happening with no shifts? I waited as long as possible before ordering and finally bought the 43mm. How much better are your shots with the 40mm?

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Ahh, just noticed I kinda left out a few parts I wanted to write. What I'm talking about is with shifts. Without it is fine. Or at least more or less. However, once you are shifting the color cast is really strong. I really DON'T want to comment on the banding, yet. I can say C1 does a very good job now. 100 times better than before. I won't say if the problem is really gone before I have more time to test. EDIT: A note which should be clear, but just wanted to add it: As far as I know one has to use the new LCC option to get rid of any banding. I don't even now it the normal one corrects it as well.


    EDIT2: To Phase One: Please give us the possibility to use to DIFFERENT LCC files for each raw file !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why ? Because there is so much DR in the raw files, that one nearly has to use the LCC (HDR) Method for getting all possible detail. Or really make the Highlight and Shadow slider useful. For now to really bring up the shadows they just make the whole image muddy.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I wish I had more time to test the 43 when I had the chance and not to scare anyone but I have a feeling the 47 will be less a problem. I did not like the fact you need a LCC on a straight shot on the 43. I shot the 47 on the P65 on other occasions and it was clean as can be. I know hate to make any call without further testing so just a feeling right now.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Well I've got the 43XL and use it on the P65+ and have been thinking of swapping it for the Rodie 40HRW. Looking at the illumination charts, the fall off of each lens is about the same but after purchasing the SK I was surprised by the colour casts without any movements. See my post on SK 43 sharpness: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25510

    The one thing that has held me back is the distortion of the Rodenstock as it seems quite a lot but if colour cast is worse on the newer backs then thats not good.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I think what will become pretty much standard knowledge in a little while is that the 'older' 25 and 33-39 megapixel backs from Phase One, Leaf, Hasselblad and Sinar in many ways deliver more flexibility in lens choice as well as fewer processing issues - on a tech camera.

    The only caveat to the above is already well known and that is backs like P30+ and Hasselblad equivalent are not suited/recommended for tech camera useage at all..

    On a 645 body go for as many megapixels as you like - no problemo!

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I heard from a very reliable source that the colour cast issues and banding is a particular problem with the 80mp backs. This was expressed to me a couple of weeks back when the IQ demos and first dealer drop backs arrived and were tested. A concern for tech shooters with Schneider certainly. I'm certain we'll be hearing more about this soon. Unfortunately it's basic physics/optics so I'm not sure that there's an easy answer for this other than lens redesign or possibly image processing techniques that might drop real resolution (like AA filters do) to counteract the issue.

    I didn't mention anything before because essentially this needs to come from the parties involved vs 2nd hand, but since Christopher mentioned it ...

    Note: I don't know if the latest 6.2 of C1 does a better job or not. I'm sure we'll know soon enough.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I could kick myself for not running more tests when I had everything in my hands last week. Wish I was able to spend the time doing it. Sorry folks it was a busy day as it was. But what I did get without the LCC on the 43 did raise a red flag and I did bring it up on another thread
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I will post that image again for clarity . The 43mm on the 180 back with no LCC. When I posted this we questioned the bottom right magenta cast but sometimes here asphalt can actually look like that due to heat. But even the sides don't look exactly normal. I never did shift this lens and shoot it shifted.


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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Ughhh,
    I've been asking about this for a while. I was told the new version of C1 got rid of the banding problems and was better with LCC's.
    Is there any confirmation on this? I swapped my 35xl for a rod. 32 and the 24 for a 23. With the p65+ I have been very pleased with the results. My iq180 arrives Monday and my fingers are crossed.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    So, if you are a tech shooter then it actually is a safer choice to go with iq160/aptus ii 10 ? would that be a fair assumption?
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    So, if you are a tech shooter then it actually is a safer choice to go with iq160/aptus ii 10 ? would that be a fair assumption?
    Almost certainly not that simple. Even those size sensors have some drawbacks in terms of lens coverage/movements/potential wide angle lens banding/LCC but obviously there are also significant benefits too!!

    If you are pondering a big investment in this area then it probably makes sense to wait a little and see. The IQ180s are only just getting into people's hands and so it is inevitable that there will be more and more empirical feedback from them in the coming weeks and months as they get used. Personally, I certainly wouldn't make a knee jerk decision based on the little tidbits of feedback available at the moment.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 22nd May 2011 at 00:43.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Christopher,
    What back did you use with the 43xl before you got the IQ180? I'm curious what your reference point is with the 43xl. On the P65 there is certainly color cast even in un-shifted images. IMO the LCC corrects for those color casts quite nicely. If you upgraded from a P65, do you think the IQ180 is significantly worse? Or did you upgrade from another back?

    Also, regarding Guy's image. It really looks like this was shifted because the magenta cast is in the bottom not the top. Maybe Guy mentioned somewhere that it was and I missed it. The center tree is definitely different colors at the top vs. the bottom.

    I'd love to help out with this analysis but I don't have my IQ180 yet. Patience...

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    The finished files looks quite nice, but there is still to much red in the corners.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    i shot some images today, will give some feedback soon. Just can't post to much from the road.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Rod from Arca was the operator on my shots . I played assistant and director roles. LOL
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I played assistant and director roles. LOL
    THAT is funny! Always nice to have three art directors on a job: the art director, the photographer, and the assistant. Makes for a fun filled day.

    Dave

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    wouldn't a blank white frame with and without shifts clear this up?

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Here is a short roundup:

    Shooting today with the IQ180 and my P65. ( 43mm vs 40mm ) Have done some side to side tests.
    43mm:
    - The colorcast and banding is certainly stronger on the IQ180.
    - Unshifted the difference is small and not very important. C1 does a great job.
    - On the IQ the banding is visible when the lens is unshifted. Corrects fine in C1 6.2
    - Once shifted the CC and Banding is getting really strong on the IQ. The P65 holds much better.
    40mm:
    - More CC on the IQ180, but a lot less than the 43mm
    - I can finally find banding. I have nearly never seen any banding on the 40. Now it certainly can be seen when shifting 1cm is getting quite stong when shifitng 1,5cm. Still a lot less compared to the 43mm

    Other notes:
    - When the camera is in landscape mode and shifted to the side, the color cast and banding is stronger on the right end then on the left. Especially the banding. On all lenses. So now I could say that Arca mounts all lenses wrong ? Or the sensor is not in the middle ? Or whatever. Same goes for the P65, but a little less.

    - When the camera is in portrait mode and I shifting down (more into the sky) I have a problem. Well when shifting 1 cm it's fine. However, once I approach 1,8 cm I'm getting some kind of centerfold/sensor/banding/light fall off, which looks like a line/spot or whatever it is. I'm noting it, because I think it has nothing to do with my IQ sensor, but with a general problem. I think it is visible on the P65 but only when shifted more and a lot weaker. Will have to check again.

    I DON'T want to create any panic. I bet most people won't see it and it is only really visible when it is somewhere with a smooth surface like blue sky.

    I hope to be able to post some images later today, which show some of the stuff I am talking about.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Great info Christopher. Thank you for the effort!

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    There is some good information here and I have an APLA STC and if you use Capture One latest version and do an LCC using Analyze Technical Wide Angle you should see the banding and color shift go away. I won’t get into the technical reasons that cause banding but it is usually seen in areas like blue sky when shifting and using the LCC Technical Wide Angle will fix it. Or, at least it does on my system. I have also seen a few cases where a customer called me and I had them go back and do this and problem solved. If you can try using this setting in LCC and see what happens. Make sure you have latest version of C1.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I'd be very interested in a straight answer on these issues on an IQ 180 back. I prefer the look and size of Schneiders. I've got a Schneider APO Switar 36mm and an APO Helvatar 48. Both used on my Alpa TC and Alpa Max. I tend to be a wide shooter so these are workhorse lenses for me.

    Moderate color shifts are in my view inevitable with these lenses - even shooting unshifted - and are entirely acceptable. The color shifts theoretically change with changes in f-stop and focus but these changes are minor in practice so a single well-made lcc shot for each lens at infinity and the most likely working f-stop is all that is needed (particularly if you're correcting only for color shift - not for vignetting). Corrections can be applied by default in Capture One or Phocus, as the case may be. The "moderate" part of the topic sentence of this paragraph is important - correcting strong color shifts eats up dynamic range and contrast and can result in color channel clipping.

    Banding is another issue entirely. It's not acceptable.

    So does the IQ 180 exhibit banding (or any other artifacts) in wide tech camera applications, shifted or unshifted? This isn't a tough issue to spot - post an uncorrected lcc image and then an image of it corrected with itself.

    My Hasselbald 60meg back is fine unshifted (actually outstanding) with these lenses. But it exhibits centerfolding when shifted with either of these lenses, which is why my Alpa Max is gathering dust, and a major irritant - enough so that I'm considering a move to Phase - but only if the Phase can tolerate 15mm or so of shift in either direction with the 48mm Schneider.

    If there is a an IQ 180 owner in NYC PM me - I'd be happy to get together to run a test with my Alpa max.

    Kevin and Christopher - thanks - your posts came up while I was writing this. I look forward to samples. I'm particularly interested in the centerfolding issue. With the hasselblad I would describe it as follows. Put the back in portrait orientation and shift on the horizontal axis. With both lenses centerfolding is evident. It's very subtle at small shifts (the 48 is "usable" at 4mm of shift or so) depending on the subject. It becomes more evident at large shifts. It's not evident or is barely visible in the cluttered parts of images, it's painfully evident in blue skies. The Phocus scene correction tool definitively does not correct it. I'll post a sample scene correction image when I get back to my computer in NYC.

    BTW I haven't seen any banding with the H 60 back shifted or unshifted.

    I'm going to experiment with the following workflow with my H 60 back: Hasselblad native files to DMG in Phocus; Kevin's suggested processing in C1.
    Last edited by Woody Campbell; 22nd May 2011 at 06:00.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I asked questions about banding and CC with tech camera lenses when buying my back a few monhs ago and it fell on deaf ears.

    Glad this topic has come up and I can't wait for the IQ/P65 samples.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I asked questions about banding and CC with tech camera lenses when buying my back a few monhs ago and it fell on deaf ears.

    Glad this topic has come up and I can't wait for the IQ/P65 samples.

    Gareth this exact topic came up on LL back in March and I've posted samples from the Aptus-II 12 that I've made with the 40mm HR and the 43mm XL

    The new C1 6.2 does a good job in handling the banding. In general Rodestock are better in terms of colour cast and you pay for that in distortion, image cicrle and size. They are also sharper at wider apertures albeit with increased falloff

    Each of these lenses has an official and a useable image circle and as a user you just have to find the right balance. I use the 43mm XL a lot and as long as I don't push it beyond ~15mm shift (at f8) it works fine. With the 40mm HR you can't really go beyond 11-12mm so again there's a trade-off there

    I'm very sensitive to colour casts and can spot it from a mile, I therefore use LCC (or equivalent process) with ALL these lenses.

    I have a ton of test images with all the sensors/ lenses/ cameras combinations, pushing them to the extremes and beyond. You can make all of them work as long as you know the limits and how to handle these "effects"

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    update coming in a few minutes, if I don't die from hunger first.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    update coming in a few minutes, if I don't die from hunger first.
    Under no circumstances should you miss a meal to post to this forum!

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Here we go:

    Please don't judge anything general. No editing was done so color can be off. (no WB)

    General things:

    Schneider 43:
    P65 left IQ180 right

    0 Rise/Fall


    7,5mm Rise/Fall


    15mm Rise/Fall


    22,5mm Rise/Fall


    Now: Full 1:1 small top section from LCC at 7,5mm shift (IQ180 43mm)
    uncorrected

    corrected

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    As one can see banding is gone and it with little shift it looks great.
    However I did not buy a lens with a 120mm circle to only shift 7mm. Here are 1,5cm shift: The banding is once again gone so I won't post it again.
    uncrrected/corrected:


    While there was't much blue sky, the Sky wasn't that gray. So while the banding is nor problem the huge color cast is.

    Other place: IQ180, 1cm rise/fall: Schneider 43 / Rodenstock 40
    uncorrected:


    corrected:


    Rodenstock Dist. uncorrected:

    corrected:

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Centerfold/Banding issue:

    Ok, this is a hard one. I take one example, because I don't have to much time.

    IQ180 43mm:

    A 10mm shift is fine. Just the normal banding and CC

    We Problem starts here: Let's say you shoot a tall building and want to have some sky in the shot. So you choose 18mm shift.

    Here is what you get:
    Full:

    Crop



    LLC: (larger file 3000xsomething)
    http://www.chauser.ch/IQ/IQ180-180-LCC-F.jpg



    So there is the problem. The centerfold/banding is so low that it makes the image unusable. Or in other words from now on it is very important to shift only as much as you exactly need. Before that it was easier to make to 15mm shifts and than just to crop of the stuff one doesn't need-


    EDIT: Just saw that the second centerfold is the normal one, which can be seen under VERY VERY havy editing. Otherwise it won't be visible. So forget that one. The one on the top can only be seen when shifted.

    And here is the same on the P65, however much larger shift. 30mm (banding comes from JPG comp)

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Personal Problems, or why the back probably will go back to Dealer/Phase One on Monday:

    - Corrupted files when saving to CF card. I had this error around 20-30 times while shooting 250 images today. I used quite a few cards ProSpec 8Gb, SanDisk Extreme III and IV with 2-16GB. It only happened sometimes and I couldn't really find a pattern.
    - A large color band on the right side of the image. OK LARGE is not really the right word and in most images it would not be seen. I attache here a LCC file with Color boosted to 100

    I mean the yelllowish/greenish band. It is on every LLC file I shot with my arca and when the normal file is pushed without LCC it can be seen as well.

    Now for a Tech camera it wouldn't be a problem, but I haven't tested it, but would expect it to see it on my Phase 645AF as well. Because it is the same on all lenses.

    - corrupted images. This could be a CF card problem, but all of these cards work fine with my P65, 5DMk2, 1DsMk3. First a shot of the problem:


    I see this image on the back, so right after shooting it. Mostly it is only going away when turning off the back and removing the battery. I had such a frame or thhe light version (below) around 10-15 times in 250 frames.


    For now the END.


    I wanted to talk about the 32 and some more stuff, but I first want to get some dinner, get some sleep and talk to my dealer tomorrow, about some of the problems, before testing some more stuff.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    OK, NOW I have to write more. Because it sounds a little negative. So here more general stuff.

    I love the new Display and how it works. I mean I shot with both backs today and really can't imagine going back to a old screen forever. I mean everytime I took the P65 I was thinking, HELL, why can't I see what I just shoot?

    It is so much fun to work with the IQ back. Dynamic range is amazing. Especially ISO 35 is really nice. There is so much more great stuff and I would do the upgrade again anytime. Now I just have to figure out some of the problems I'm having.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Christopher,

    Thank you for taking the time to share these --- very informative and please keep us posted on anything else you learn.
    Jack
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Thanks for sharing Christopher!

    Three thoughts to bring up quickly while on the road...
    1) IMO the ONLY meaningful comparison is between the LCC corrected files. If you're going to shoot a tech camera you should be IMO using an LCC on every shot, including on lenses like the 40mm. So what the images look like before LCC is applied is nearly irrelevant. The only purpose of comparing the uncorrected LCC is to gauge what level of the deserve dynic range will be taken up by the LCC algorithm. Guy was kind enough to post a 43mm with the iq180 which was uncorrected which seems to have created undue stress; I could give two hoots whether the lens shows cast or not when unshifted - I care about the real world end result which should IMO always include an LCC. The 24XL on a 45+ shows tremendous color cast unshifted and is still a great lens for that back assuming you are doing the LCC. Even the lenses you think don't have cast unshifted do in fact have shift - just small enough you don't notice it until you do an LCC and see the corrected version.
    2) The banding issue scared the crap out of me when I first heard of it and it started popping up with guys like Ed Cooley. I've personally tested the fix in 6.2 with the Aptus-12 (same sensor as iq80) and have confirmed that 6.2 handles banding out to tue edge of the image circle. You can thank leaf for the math as they ha it handled in leaf capture before phase was able to implement it in c1. I'm no longer scared.
    3) The 43mmXL has a much larger image circle than the 40mmHR so bear that in mind when comparing the lenses with shift. So even if the iq180 cuts a few mm of useful image circle from the 43xl (which bares testing) compared to say with use of a 45+ then it's still got plenty left compared to the 40hr.

    Well that was a lot to type on an iPhone.

    Christopher I hope you can comment more on comparing the two lenses AFTER LCC (must be in 6.2 with the wide angle tech camera LCC setting).

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Christopher - on the corrected shot of the grey sky where it is clearly darker was your LCC shot with the same parameters as the original shot or did you give it more light? I was told 2 stops More light using the LCC's.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Well I think where the sky is falling on some folks is maybe on the P65 they could do a uncorrected LCC straight shot and it would be fine and with the IQ 180 you may need it on every shot with the 43mm. Lets admit that is more work for some.
    But i agree it is part of the life using a tech cam to begin with. Also if it clears out nicely after the LCC corrections who really cares as long as the image is good in final.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Christopher - on the corrected shot of the grey sky where it is clearly darker was your LCC shot with the same parameters as the original shot or did you give it more light? I was told 2 stops More light using the LCC's.
    Just so everyone is clear, the key to the optimal LCC is using same aperture used as the original capture, and a nice, centered histogram -- be it 2 stops or 4 stops or 1 stop different than the original capture.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Ok a few quick notes. I never shot a single frame on a tech camera without a LCC correction.

    The 43mm always has quite a strong color shift even on the P65. However, I posted enough which showed that the problem with the IQ180, IS a LOT worse than before. This limits the lens usage. Sure phase one can correct some of it, but not ALL. As seen a both.

    I certainly don't want to spend time retouching images just to get the colors right again.

    Note to 40vs43, generally you are correct that the 43mm has the larger image circle, but on the IQ180 the color cast gets quickly so strong, that you can't use it. I would say that you get a larger view from the 40 even though the image ciclre is a lot smaller.

    I'm also not surprised that nobody commented on the shift/centerfold issue. I know it's there with 32,40,43 and gotten a LOT worse on the IQ180. Looks like one has to check exactly every lens now and how much can be shifted, before using the lens.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Christopher - on the corrected shot of the grey sky where it is clearly darker was your LCC shot with the same parameters as the original shot or did you give it more light? I was told 2 stops More light using the LCC's.
    No, the normal one was f11 1/60 the LCC was f11 1/15

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    At anyone with a tech camera, or who shot some images with the IQ180 and a tech camera. Is the expsoure shown correct in C1 or on the back? I have only 1/1000 on all shots, which isn't correct

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    No, the normal one was f11 1/60 the LCC was f11 1/15
    Perfect. Thanks for responding.

    On the centerfold issue, I'm only shooting a P40+ right now and haven't run into an issue so I guess I don't really understand the centerfold problem and what the root cause is from.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Any thoughts on when to use "LCC - Technical Wide Angle" vs normal LCC correction in v6.2 C1 Pro? The wide angle version takes significantly longer although that's not a big issue really in the bigger scheme of things. Is there a rule of thumb as to when it's recommended to use this vs std LCC? i.e. 47mm & wider? shifts > xx mm? etc etc.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    As far as I understand it. Only the technical wide angle corrects the banding issue.

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    Michael Reichmann
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Yes, the IQ180 is definitely more sensitive to LCC issues than previous Phase backs. But if you use the new Analyse Technical Wide Angle function in C1 6.2.1 it can mostly be corrected.

    I have just published an article on this on LuLa.

    Cheers,

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Thx, Michael. Well I have the very bad feeling I got a bad IQ, but will have to talk to my dealer and do some more testing first.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I did not want to post more, because I think I must have a bad IQ180, or I have a huge problem with my sight. However, because some were talking about only corrected files count. Here you go:


    Rodenstock 40W: (left 0 rise/fall, 19mm rise/fall) all corrected in C1 6.2


    Color Shift ???? It's not huge, but the light did certainly not change that much. For stitching this would be a pain in the a** Now before somebody asks, YES the settings between the one with and without movment are exactly the same in C1. Same WB, Same settings only difference is each has it's one LCC file.

    Left image 0 rise/fall right 19mm



    Centerfold (not really center, upper fold) And YES it is visible when printing such an image on A3. Could be hard to see in the JPG.


    Schneider 43mm (left 0 rise/fall, 19mm rise/fall) all corrected in C1 6.2


    Again, before somebody asks, YES the settings between the one with and without movment are exactly the same in C1. Same WB, Same settings only difference is each has it's one LCC file.

    I don't know will have to look at more tests tomorrow, but from what I shot today I would call the 43mm schneider unusable with shifts. At least on my current IQ back.

  45. #45
    Michael Reichmann
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    As I wrote, my finding is that anything beyond 10mm of shift with the 43mm is highly problematic. 19mm is way too much.

    Michael

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I know and I'm really happy that I have the Rodenstock. However, I have to be fair to everyone and note that I have more problems with the IQ than the P65. A lot more. I have some great images with 20-25mm with the rodenstock without anyproblems. Well expect that I run out of image circle. So far I can't say that from the IQ180.

    Here I would (as you noted) say for all my lenses. 32,40,43 a max shift of 15 best only 10 or so.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Its hard to tell from the small web images but the uncorrected colour from both lenses seems very similar but change a lot after LCC. Also the Schneider seems a higher contrast lens which may boost the CC effect?

    Interesting to see the like for like views between the 40 and 43. Surprisingly, the Rodenstock is quite a bit wider and although offering less shift will probably match the useable IC shift/view of the Schneider.

    Also, out of interest Christopher what Arca are you using. I'd be really interested if the projected image on the GG if your using one between these two lenses. Does the retrofocus design of the Rodenstock offer a more evenly illuminated view as the Schneider rear element gets very close to the GG and the illumination falls off a lot?

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Thatis the funny thing. I bought the Schneider to get more viewing angle compared to the Rodenstock. However, with the IQ it looks like it won't work as I imagined.

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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Personal Problems, or why the back probably will go back to Dealer/Phase One on Monday:

    - Corrupted files when saving to CF card. I had this error around 20-30 times while shooting 250 images today. I used quite a few cards ProSpec 8Gb, SanDisk Extreme III and IV with 2-16GB. It only happened sometimes and I couldn't really find a pattern.
    - A large color band on the right side of the image. OK LARGE is not really the right word and in most images it would not be seen. I attache here a LCC file with Color boosted to 100

    I mean the yelllowish/greenish band. It is on every LLC file I shot with my arca and when the normal file is pushed without LCC it can be seen as well.

    Now for a Tech camera it wouldn't be a problem, but I haven't tested it, but would expect it to see it on my Phase 645AF as well. Because it is the same on all lenses.

    - corrupted images. This could be a CF card problem, but all of these cards work fine with my P65, 5DMk2, 1DsMk3. First a shot of the problem:


    I see this image on the back, so right after shooting it. Mostly it is only going away when turning off the back and removing the battery. I had such a frame or thhe light version (below) around 10-15 times in 250 frames.


    For now the END.


    I wanted to talk about the 32 and some more stuff, but I first want to get some dinner, get some sleep and talk to my dealer tomorrow, about some of the problems, before testing some more stuff.


    Chris not to stray to far OT but you may have a bad card reader or went bad. I have seen this happen before myself. Do you have another reader handy to test to see if the corruption are still on the cards.
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    Re: Is the IQ180 the end for Schneider lenses ? compared to Rodenstock

    I tried to explain it, but perhaps wasn't clear enough. This is how they already look on the back itself. So it is not only when transferred to the PC, but on the back itself. And I got it on three different card, so it is a little strange.

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