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Thread: Leaf Q's for repro work

  1. #51
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    What is the best form of compression for a tiff?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  2. #52
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Simply spoken: None.
    Compressed tifs (LZW) are unsupported by most database image engines and incompatible to be opened in Webbrowsers and if they open they are SLOOOOOOW. Add this to the shere size and then just forget about. Given the fact that a fullresolution jpg with best quality also will be up to 80-90 % of the tiff (try yourself- if you have a full structure, full detail pergament page with paper structure and lots of details the JPG will be very big) and still looses Color information and exactness (which is also essential for scientific analysis of the images) you should simply go with tiffs. There is a whitepaper about the definitions for digital image acquisition for documents made by the DFG (and in part by the BSB) available as PDF :

    http://www.dfg.de/download/pdf/foerd...sierung_en.pdf

    Regards
    Stefan

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    That document is a wealth of information in its own right Stefan, I will be studying it intently!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    I think the question which I will be asking the organisation (they are hugely vague in their objectives, I have to be somewhat honest in that I'm pushing this project on them, they were interested but quite happy to procrastinate, as it's a private collection their interests are relatively narrow). You mention scientific analysis, to be honest if I gave them the files in B&W I don't think they would care that much. The main aspect seems to be the ability to transcribe and translate these works to be able to provide access to the public domain of the literature contained. Exact museum level digital preservation is not high on their priorities as far as I understand though I intend to lecture them on the subject very soon!

    They have been transcribing the material but due to the delicate nature of the books and scrolls it has been hard and painstaking. The scripts and writing methodology vary wildely as you can imagine with a single language being written over hundreds of years in locations varying from the far east to Europe and everything inbetween. I myself can read and write some 4 hebrew scripts ranging from ancient to medieval to modern but deciphering this stuff is way beyond me. I can recognise some letters but that is about it. Until now the transcription has involved a table, lamp, magnifying glass and a computer. Oh and a lot of time! The main goal as it was presented to me was the ability for a book to be sent to multiple experts where they could view it in some 5-10X it's original size with the utmost clarity, contrast, etc.

    But I do wish they would be a bit clearer in their objectives to me or indeed wish not to be uneasily certain that if I hadn't pushed the project it would have been (and might yet still be) buried...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    What an incredible wealth of information that document is!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  6. #56
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben

    this document represents about 10 years of results, trial and error and daily work of several of the largest german libraries and museums.
    There were numerous symposions and discussions about every sentence in that document, hence the sometimes a bit "political" formulation.
    But this is like the standard "paris meter" a base for further consens in international digitization work.
    If you google that phrases used in there as well as the links and the sources named you will find everything needed to proceed with your project.

    Regards
    Stefan

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben

    another very important link (it´s also mentioned in the first document):

    http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/

    will answer your questions about format in detail

    Regards
    Stefan

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    OK been doing some research:

    I have to work on the following premises: Most of my work will be books of sizes up to A3. I will have documents to photograph up to A3. Some of those documents will be rolled and as such will need flattening to photograph.

    There are 4 solutions that I can see.

    1. Kaiser Repro Copy Repro stand. 5500 Euro. Perfect for flat work but unsuitible for books due to no book cradle solution which will hold a book open at any angle other than a damaging 180 degrees.

    2. Meyer Traveller system. 8270 Euro. A nice solution for books and documents up to A3 but does not have a system to hold books flat or a solution for larger rolled documents (any suggestions?).

    3. Kaiser suggested the Annagram CamCradle (http://www.anagramm.com/produkte/cam.../index_cc.html). 12340 Euro. This does seem to have a vacuum system suitable for holding pages flat while photographing them but there does not seem to be any solution at all for anything which isn't a book. It's also very expensive and does not include lights and camera attachment like the Traveller above.

    4. This is an interesting one that I discovered. Atiz Bookdrive Pro (http://www.allied-images.com/pdf/Bookdrive%20Pro.pdf). 10600 Euro. An all in one solution inclusive of workflow software. Very automated, you don't have to do much of anything to work it. It has what looks like an elegant solution to keeping pages flat gently and an automatic moving base to compensate for differing spine positioning. Main catch, it's set up for using Canon DSLR's, all the shooting and cataloguing workflow is based on that. That said with 5DII's for example you will be getting 42 megapixels per spread and I would have been happy with 28 megapixels from a MFDB. Where it goes bad is when photographing documents you use only one camera and you now have only 21 megapixels and DSLR megapixels at that. They do tell me however that you can use any camera you like including MF just without the workflow automation and software and the British Museum were inquiring after doing just that with their P1 backs using this setup. There is still the same problem with rolled documents larger than A3 of course. Using DSLR's this is a solution which is by far the cheapest. Hugely, significantly the cheapest. Even using a MFDB solution it's not that much more than the Mayer system.

    I've emailed Mr Mayer to ask if the Traveller solution includes a method for holding pages flat for photography.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Mr Mayer has replied that curved acrylic sheets are supplied to hold the page down and a foot pedal used to fire the shutter. A laser positioning system keeps the focal plane and the geometry a constant albeit manually adjusted. Clever though somewhat work intensive compared to the (albeit more costly) Atiz system.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 7th June 2011 at 04:04.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  10. #60
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben

    automated systems are only working on comparable flat books. The one that you showed here as examples are so fragile, you will need to trea them very carefully, means manually anyway. The samples on the Atiz site do confirm this IMHO as they show mostly standard newer documents.

    regards
    Stefan

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    The Mayer Traveller system from the videos Mr Mayer kindly sent me does seem to be very slow to work with and the lighting he confirmed is not sufficient for books which would take up the whole plate. The Atiz system is larger, A2 rather than A3, and although they don't show usage with older books the system should work just as well if used appropriately. The automated stuff is for Canon DSLR's, I'd be using an RZ with that system on one side only.

    I've asked Mr Mayer for details of his bigger unit.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 8th June 2011 at 15:03.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Okedokey!

    Firstly I had a long conversation with Mr Mayer today. He can make the Traveller in A2 size and with all the movements automated using a remote. The price is just a bit more than the Atiz and to be honest it's a better system. The Atiz people sent me sample pictures with bad skewing of the pages, when I asked them why their system allowed that to happen they mumbled about software corrections. That isn't acceptable with a system of this size. Not for $16500 + shipping and tax for what is a metal frame with a acrylic glass plate (which they want $1000 to replace when it gets scratched).

    I have to really thank Stefan for putting me in touch with Mr Mayer, it's not just me now but the National Library here in Jerusalem who are interested in the Traveller (I showed it to them when I went there to look at their Hasselblad) and we hope to go to the University in Be'er Sheva next week together to have a look at the one they have installed there.

    In any case I make my presentation on Saturday night where we see if the organisation likes my findings and will spare the budget to make this happen...

    Wish me luck!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Much Luck Ben!!!!

    However, you've done your homework and have a lot of great info and insights to share, so luck may have less to do with it than you may think.

    What's that saying ... " Luck favors the prepared".

    -Marc

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Best of luck Ben... and let us know how you make out.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben,

    Sorry I am a little late in getting around to contributing some information to the thread.

    We have a division of our company that is headed byPeter Siegel, that specializes in working with many of the top institutions around the world with their digitization needs. It is called Division of Cultural Heritage (DCH).

    We have developed three main products that are part of the solutions we offer:

    1) DT RCam Reprographic Camera -


    Key Features:
    Features & Benefits
    Built to .005 tolerances to ensure image and focal plane are in perfect alignment
    Extremely accurate helical focusing system
    Compatible with a wide variety of digital backs
    Built with the industry’s leading components
    Mechanical or electronic lens options
    Ability to stitch images together for maximum resolution
    Perfect integration with the DT RG3040 Reprographic System
    More Info

    2) DT's RG3040 Reprographic System


    Key Features:
    Designed, manufactured, and installed to exacting tolerances, the DT RG3040 creates the highest quality images. It includes:
    A 30” x 40” reprographic table with a heavy duty, moveable electronically controlled column.
    Fully aligned components CNC (Computer Numerical Controlled) machined to .005” to ensure even focus across image plane.
    A utility shelf to hold lighting generator and camera accessories.
    Four casters with adjustable and retractable dampeners for mobility, work surface alignment, and elimination of table vibration. This ensures the highest quality reproduction.
    More Info

    3) BC100 Book Capture System (NEW)


    Key Features:
    Dual Camera Book Capture System with incredible rate of capture.
    Capable of shooting bound and loose materials, including works on paper, serials, loose manuscripts, photos, and drawings, etc.
    Digital Camera Heads meet preservation grade imaging criteria including the FAGDI standard guidelines.
    Software delivers preservation grade TIFFs, JPEGs, and PDFSs in RGB, grayscale, and CMYK modes. Open Source Raw and DNG also supported.
    The BC100 is the only true 48 bit system on the market.
    Its open platform design allows the camera and capture device to be upgraded.
    Cross platform compatibility with our DT RCam Reprographic Camera for increased versatility.
    Variable resolution options available.
    The 100° glass platten enables the digitization of A2 materials per side.
    Durable design for years of uninterrupted, reliable use.
    Easy to operate.


    All of these products were designed and manufactured by us to meet the demands of the institutions we work with. We have listened to the Cultural Heritage Community and have had their involvement during the design and development processes so that we can provide best of breed solutions.

    Here is a new brochure that we are just finishing up that for our Division Of Cultural Heritage.

    Again for more info Peter Siegel is the person who heads up this division @ Digital Transitions. Shoot him an email , he would be happy to assist you.

    Hope these products may be able to assist you with your project or give you some ideas.
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Hi Lance,

    Yair Shahar actually pointed me towards your BC100 system but the information on your site is very limited, no photos even and to be honest I didn't linger long. I see now from your pdf that it's a bigger and better made solution than the Atiz while using the same design principle which most seem to use these days, heck there's a big DIY movement using the same concept.

    I have to be honest in that I'm scared to ask the price of that unit, even the shipping of something that weight (1225lbs) to Jerusalem would be scary!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Email sent to Peter. If he gets me a quote and more details by tomorrow I'll include the unit in my presentation.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    We just posted a new video demonstrating the BC100.

    Pictures do not do it justice, you have to see it in action.

    BC100 Book Capture System

    I know we have a few of these placed already at some major institutions with success, and we will be showing it at the ALA Annual in New Orleans later this month.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    That BC 100 is really impressive... Thanks for the link to the video Lance.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Impressive but for a few things. Firstly you're still using glass on the page (bad idea I'm informed for old books), secondly it's a very big and heavy monster if you need to ship it, thirdly it's wooooooooow expensive relative to other options (albeit the price is justified by build and quality, use of 40 megapixel backs on each side, etc). If you're looking at digitalizing books then buying a scanner such as the Treventus machines that Stefan mentioned (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOQuuLYavY) makes more sense, this is a lot more work in comparison to an automatic scanner, a lot slower and still more expensive. Admittedly you will have more resolution and a true 16 bit workflow using the BC-100 with medium format backs but at some point you have to ask yourself just how much resolution do I need for a book page? A question I'll be discussing at this meeting tonight.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Had the meeting, they want 40 megapixels as a minimum which I'm rather suprised at. Whether they go for it I don't know, it's apparently me and this gear or an outside contractor who has wowed them with his experience (http://www.ardonbarhama.com) but would cost a fortune for the 2000+ books they say they have (about 10 times the amount and that's without metadata entry).
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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  22. #72
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben, if you need 40MP and are on a budget, a Pentax 645D, Pentax 120mm macro, and a Pentax Refconverter (90 degree-angle viewfinder attachment) might be an option. If you get the Pentax IR remote, you can fire the body remotely, even with mirror lock up. (jeez, I feel like a Pentax rep this weekend.) You should be able to get that for under $11K USD. The lens and Refconverter will be used. With an EyeFi card, you can send the RAW images to a computer wirelessly as you shoot.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Sorry but eyefi is not a pro solution for a heavy workflow. What were Pentax thinking when they didn't make the 645D with tethering?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben, you seem a bit scattered in your considerations based on saving a few shekels ... where your competitor is 10X your price range based on experience ... (did that include you in the total 10X pricing difference?)

    The client wants at least 40 meg. But they really don't know the criteria when they say that. IMO, stay away from the 40 meg backs for this type of work. While 40 meg, they are all 44X33 crop frame 1.3X sensors. Avoid the Pentax 645D especially. Not only is it missing the tether option, it is 14 bit with a 11.5 DR and its base ISO is 200 (push to 100 which cuts DR even more). Nice camera for many applications with slightly lower specs and no tethering in order to keep the price down, but not really suitable for the work you need to do here.

    I'd go for at least a 50 or 60 meg back which are a full 16 bit, and near FF 645 with a base ISO of 50, higher DR ... and is supported by powerful software like C1 or Phocus (which is especially important when shooting tethered).

    However ...

    after reading the link to your competitor that you provided, it became apparent that the higher the fidelity of capture, the more valuable the data is for scholars and researchers ... not to mention what may be needed in the future. Of particular note was the ability to zoom in on individual letters in a manuscript ... being a history fan, I've seen intense scholarly debates over the meaning of a single word, or even the form of an individual letter in an ancient document. So it is no wonder that such micro fidelity is desired ... or even empirically required.

    So, were it me I'd figure some way to get an IQ 80 or even better: the H4D/200MS ... and use either on a tech camera. The 200 can be used single shot 50, 4 shot 50MS or for larger documents 6 shot 200MS.

    I'd then sell the crap out of this latest technology and it's empirical ability to capture every bit of detail to produce as close to the original as technically feasible. This material is priceless and the secrets contained in even single words or letters could be of historical importance for generations to come.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Budget it not as much of a problem as I'd imagined (I hope!) but the guy in the link I showed was using a 33 megapixel Aptus 75 until a year or so ago or so when he bought an Aptus II-10 which he now boasts allows him to shoot a full spread rather than page by page. The work you see there which allows zooming in to individual words, etc (which incidentally is their benchmark too) is the work of 33 megapixels or less per page. 40 should be more than sufficient then for our needs, that gives 80 megapixels per spread, and the fact that it's a crop sensor is insignificant when used on a copy stand to be honest. I've been offered a deal on a H3D-50 which is very good but if only the dealer here gave more confidence....
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Budget it not as much of a problem as I'd imagined (I hope!) but the guy in the link I showed was using a 33 megapixel Aptus 75 until a year or so ago or so when he bought an Aptus II-10 which he now boasts allows him to shoot a full spread rather than page by page. The work you see there which allows zooming in to individual words, etc (which incidentally is their benchmark too) is the work of 33 megapixels or less per page. 40 should be more than sufficient then for our needs, that gives 80 megapixels per spread, and the fact that it's a crop sensor is insignificant when used on a copy stand to be honest. I've been offered a deal on a H3D-50 which is very good but if only the dealer here gave more confidence....
    Okay Ben, you are the expert

    Keep in mind that most of the 40s are smaller sensors and ISO 100 base ... the Aptus 33 is a larger sensor and ISO 50 base. I've shot extensively with both and would select the Aptus 75s over the H 40 meg for this type work every time. ISO base and sensor size is more important than 7 more meg.

    The exception to this is the Phase One P40+ and IQ140 which are ISO 50 base (I assume without pulling), but still crop frame.

    While I do not shoot ancient documents, I do a ton of fine detail macro fabric shots each year, and found my H4D/40 lacking as did I the H3D-II/39. Only after getting a H2F/39/Multi-Shot did I get there. I then extensively tested the H4D/60 to make sure it was up to the task ... which is was. If I had more of this work, I'd have waited for the H4D/200MS.

    Best of luck on the project.

    -Marc

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    It's a base ISO of 80 on the Leaf 40 back actually.

    Can I ask why it makes a difference (1/3 of a stop)?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    It's a base ISO of 80 on the Leaf 40 back actually.

    Can I ask why it makes a difference (1/3 of a stop)?
    I presume you are talking about the Aptus-II 8 ... which indeed is ISO 80 base and not much different than 50 ... but a little. It is still a crop frame sensor. The 8 is a speed machine for fast shooting which I don't think you need. IMO, that back is more for fashion and stuff like that.

    Your competitor seems to have the right idea ... the Leaf pano 54 meg back. Shoot both pages at once rather than having to recenter the camera for left then right pages. Or a H4D/60, H3D-II50MS, P65+, or IQ160/180 and do the same thing.

    Horses for courses

    -Marc

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Data points
    P40 and P65 at ISO 50 Base as well as the IQ 140 and IQ 160
    The IQ 180 is ISO 35 base

    In all the backs above mentioned the base ISO gives you the maximum DR at base level.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Sorry but eyefi is not a pro solution for a heavy workflow. What were Pentax thinking when they didn't make the 645D with tethering?
    They probably thought a cable hanging off a camera in a studio was a pain in the neck, which it is. Even for repro work. I am sorry your experience with the EyeFi has been so poor. From the demos I have seen with it in a 645D, the transfer rate is not much slower than a cable.

    It was just a suggestion. Peace.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Marc, the Aptus II-7, 40 megapixels, has a base iso of 80.

    Shooting a full spread in one go only works if you can lay the book down flat, we can't, the books fall apart if you do that so we have to shoot page by page anyway.
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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    They probably thought a cable hanging off a camera in a studio was a pain in the neck, which it is. Even for repro work. I am sorry your experience with the EyeFi has been so poor. From the demos I have seen with it in a 645D, the transfer rate is not much slower than a cable.

    It was just a suggestion. Peace.
    Hi,

    If they didn't want to provide a cable tethering solution then that would be one thing but they didn't provide any tethering solution at all such as a wifi transmitter, etc. It's cut them out of practically the entire studio/fashion industry who are the majority of pro MFDB users. Just strange as although the main market for it is landscape shooters, it wouldn't have cost much to net another large market.

    The problem with eyefi although I've never used it and I'm hoping some of the other pros here will chime in on this one, it's a workaround. I've spent too much money and endured too much fustration to consider workarounds as a pro solution anymore as a photographer. It's why I told them in the meeting last night that my suggestions for equipment choices are not what is the coolest, most modern or slickest but the tools that I would like to use day in day out without tearing my hair out. It's why I'm looking at the Mayer book cradle rather than the Atiz, why we are looking at Profoto for lighting and not Einsteins, why the computer will be a mac and not a homebuild PC. When you are working with gear you don't want to have to think about it, it should switch on and work, every single time over the course of years.

    Does that make any sense?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Ben, I understand. However, it seems the biggest hurdle my be your clients. If they are worried that a 10% difference in resolving power is going to be a problem, you may have your work cutout (that is the difference between 33MP and 40MP). Sometimes the hardest part of photography is the people you work for--you sometime wonder, since they know so much about it, why they don't do it themselves.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    I get the feeling that they don't mind paying the resolution difference but I don't know how far I can push it, the most fustrating thing about this whole exercise is that I've never been given more than a hint of the actual working budget, everytime I say it might go over what I had imagined was the budget they tell me not to worry but I don't know where the cuttoff point is where I lose the job to an outside consultant. Fustrating.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Hasselblad CF39-MS and a pancake cam with a 72mm Apo Digitar is a great combo. I am selling my pancake cam. It's in the "Gear FS or WTB" section in the getdpi forum. Just do a search for fine art reproduction and my pancake cam will come up. I will consider selling the rig for $2750. And, I will sell my Hasselblad CF39-MS for $11,800. All and all, this is a terrific set and will give you astonishing quality.
    Bob Rosinsky
    Lakeland, Florida
    www.topdogimaging.net

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    I can suggest a wonderful and accurate copystand system for under $1K that will give you macro capailities and has an 8.5' column. Give me a shout if you want to hear more.
    Bob Rosinsky
    Lakeland, Florida
    www.topdogimaging.net

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Bob, PM sent, thanks!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Just a quick update, presented the data, they had a meeting on the subject yesterday and the project is approved in theory pending funding. I had assumed they had the funding already but they wanted figures so that they could start the funding with a specific figure in mind.

    Rather fustrating for me personally but what can we do, I wait again...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    UPDATE!

    The project is a go!

    I have to get a final quote for approval and then we go to ordering. 40 megapixel back with a DF camera (they want fast work so I'm going AF to speed things up). A Meyer Traveller book stand, a Kaiser RSX book stand for flat copy and Kaiser continuous lighting banks.

    Still not 100% sure on the lens selection yet as I only decided today to go with the DF as they're pushing hard on the speed issue (mistakenly in my opinion, better slow and perfect than fast and less precise). Probably a 55LS, 80LS and 120mm Macro as I need at least one lens with macro capability for all that I'll lose AF. I just have to work out a budget for what is a huge leap in lens prices over the RZ system I was considering.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    for the repro stand, i've converted a polaroid MP4 STAND... bought for 50 bucks...
    Rigid, well built !

    I've used D1, but i ad pyrex domes -600... to color temp. was way too cool without it !

    maybe an Arca RM2D or Alpa STC could be the good option with a schneider 72 or rodenstock 70... i'm using rodenstock 55 and 90.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Orders have already gone out, the Mayer Traveller, especially the custom design we've ordered will take till mid January so most of the stuff won't be ordered until about a month before then. Exception is the 24TB of drives which we've ordered now to try and beat the price hikes due to most of the HD factories being under water in Thailand.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    What file format? Saving proprietory RAWs uses up a huge amount of storage space and to be honest, is not hugely [emphasis mine] archival.
    Honesty aside, why not? Ones and zeros are used in all file formats. And storage is getting cheaper all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Tiffs are 4 times the size.
    With or without compression, Ben? If you look at the history of the Tagged Image File Format, it was designed for pre-press use where maintaining maximum quality was the goal (TIFF was developed by Aldus, a company later inhaled by Adobe Systems). Lossless compression by LZW or other means makes for smaller file sizes with zero loss of pixel information (some folk, such as me, were not enthralled when Adobe introduced JPEG compression to the TIFF specification—not in the spirit!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Jpgs are small, small enough to be able to use cloud backup as secondry backup and to be honest with files which are mainly black text on white pages should not have a lack of information if they are the final result of proper processing, they are just text, they will not ever need further processing. However they are jpgs!
    Hmmm; a lot of old works have stains, patina, wear etc. that would be lost if contrast and sharpening were to make them “black text on white pages”. Mosquito noise can still loom on contrasty edges if compression is too great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    One of the museums here has taken a radical approach of using jpgs as a file format for long term storage, what would your opinion be?
    Radical? Expediency over quality is my guess.

    JPEG is a delivery format; it is lossy and not ideal for storage as a master. The main justification for keeping RAW files is that they are true originals; anything rendered out, whether it be TIFF, PSD, PNG or [erk] JPEG is an interpretation of the unbiased original.

    I think a viable option is to employ PSD, Photoshop’s native format; it has non-lossy compression and is optimised for use with Photoshop for fast opening and saving. But there is still the interpretation scenario to consider. RAWs can often be compressed further by using ZIP or other technologies.

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    Re: Leaf Q's for repro work

    Hi,

    We're sticking to RAW's for archival at present,

    Thanks!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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