Shashin
Well-known member
Did your (camera) body break in Alaska?
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Talk Me Off the Ledge
- Thread starter JPlomley
- Start date
Don Libby
Well-known member
No and I slept like a baby...
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Maybe you missed the part where you can with a MF system like a Phase or Hassy that you can have a backup body ONLY on hand at a very low cost as low as maybe 600 dollars. So if your body goes down it is not tied into the back. These are separate items Pentax like yours you would need too have another Pentax at 10k for a body backup. Just happens you have a sensor tied to it.Guy, I don't think people are questioning your method. It is a good way of doing things, but not the only and not always the practical way. And I am having a hard time following you as well. You say if your back goes down, you can get another the next day. I am sure you can do that for the body. So it does not look like it is actually a big deal that you have a backup, apparently I can get a whole new camera sent to me--BTW, with all the problems you have with Phase/Mamiya bodies, I am glad I did not go that route.
But you also do a form of commercial photography that cannot be applied across the board. I have known a lot of LF landscape photographers that never carried a second body in the field. The weight and size just does not make it practical and a smaller backup system does not solve the weight problem nor address the quality issue. Commercial photographers have the luxury of packing heavy. You also have clients on the set/location looking at watches so time is really important. Not every form of photography has those constraints nor budgets.
Also in this discussion we are forgetting equipment cost. I could get two Pentax bodies and a lens or two for a Phase IQ140 back. We can argue which is better to use, but if a backup is really important, I could have my cake and eat it too. The S2 changes that equation. There are all sorts of ways to add up to a solution.
It is possible for me to agree and disagree with you at the same time. I am just not sure there is a black and white answer to this problem. The OP is going to have to figure out a solution for him.
Separate item if my back goes down which is so rare i never heard of it unless someone dropped it . There are no moving part here so very very rare they go belly up but if they did than just like anyone else i would be screwed and would have to resort to a completely different system like a Sony or so which I have.
With a S2, Pentax you just don't have that body option and be able to stay with your system of glass. Either you buy a second one or again turn to a completely different system.
Nice thing about that body option small , cheap and you could stash it in your car or bag. If your a landscape shooter and things go south on your body than just walk to your car and get the backup body. Your still in business.
Now on the back and being domestic here in the states I could get a back by 10 am the next morning which is great for inside the US but lets remember this gentleman is traveling so he can't get anything shipped to Cuba at all. So whatever he takes down there has to get him through on his own. In this case for me I would rent a back and have a extra body too and maybe forget the second system as your covered for both back and body. If all fails just stick a rope around your neck and let it swing. LOL
The point here was he could keep his M9's which he really likes and instead of coming up with 35 k for a S2 and two lenses he could get a Phase which frankly is just as good if not better ( I did the review remember) for use at 20k with body,back, 3 or 4 lenses. The ability to save 15k keeps his M9 kit in tact. Thats what Don and I have been saying.
Okay he still wants the S2 okay than put your money up and sell everything and buy it. So he gets a S2 and two lenses, now what. Does he not still need a backup solution for leaving the country. Of course he does, so borrowing a M9 kit is at least a solution or at the very worst go buy a Prosumer Canon with a 24-70. At least he is taking some risk without a total failure this way.
My only problem I ever had with a Phase body is it went down on a older AFDII and had a backup body on hand at home which i got to save the day( forgot to pack it). Never had a issue with my backs going down and I'm on my 4th one going on 5. Can't believe I went through this many backs . I'm a slut. Can't do that with a S2 or Pentax is upgrade. LOL Okay had to tease there
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Now honestly after all that does that not just sound logical money and gear wise. I know he wants a S2 get one but think about that backup. Okay back to work
The one thing maybe not clear is many folks have backup bodies like Canon and Nikon. The part here is they are cheap to buy so having 2 canon 5dMKii is really no big deal and everyone does that. When you jump to the Pentax at 10k or the S2 at 26k for a body most mortals cannot afford that luxury. So the whole game plan takes a change in thinking.
The one thing maybe not clear is many folks have backup bodies like Canon and Nikon. The part here is they are cheap to buy so having 2 canon 5dMKii is really no big deal and everyone does that. When you jump to the Pentax at 10k or the S2 at 26k for a body most mortals cannot afford that luxury. So the whole game plan takes a change in thinking.
Shashin
Well-known member
The last time I was in the mountains, it was a two-day journey in and a two-day journey out. That would be fours days round trip. And no, you do not have room for the luxury of a second body you "may" use to save a walk back to the car.
We just have two ways at looking at this. I have no problem with how you frame it, I am not sure you are getting my points. I think I am reaching the dead horse limit...
:deadhorse:
R
richard.L
Guest
praxis:
If the backup is good enough to serve as the primary, it can be the primary.
-::-If the backup is an M9, then the M9 can be the primary...
// aside. skip because the above is all the advice-comment I have.
this from someone who did that commercial thing. in two different incarnations. In greene street, I had plunked down BIG dollars... Sold my house, moved to cot in studio to buy 1 camera (8x10 Sinar) with 3 lenses, and the kicker, a monster strobe from England. The Z shaped tubes in the big bank looked like fluorescent tubes from a sci-fi. It all popped, would sometimes smoke, BUT ADs and VPMarketing types loved the "scene"....
Made the money back... without ANY backup of anything that cost more than $100.
But please, I do grant that there are many people who prefer or need galoshes over their boots along with an umbrella, just not me
// end
If the backup is good enough to serve as the primary, it can be the primary.
-::-If the backup is an M9, then the M9 can be the primary...
// aside. skip because the above is all the advice-comment I have.
this from someone who did that commercial thing. in two different incarnations. In greene street, I had plunked down BIG dollars... Sold my house, moved to cot in studio to buy 1 camera (8x10 Sinar) with 3 lenses, and the kicker, a monster strobe from England. The Z shaped tubes in the big bank looked like fluorescent tubes from a sci-fi. It all popped, would sometimes smoke, BUT ADs and VPMarketing types loved the "scene"....
Made the money back... without ANY backup of anything that cost more than $100.
But please, I do grant that there are many people who prefer or need galoshes over their boots along with an umbrella, just not me
// end
Interesting thread, so I'll add my 2 cents: I'm not a professional, still I would not embark on a major trip without a back-up. I have 645D. My back-up: a 645N, total cost about $400, no additional lens purchase required and it's better for long exposures.
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Don Libby
Well-known member
Anyone happen to catch the Peter Lik episode (US Weather Channel) where while in the Death Valley he missed getting an assume if not gallery shot due to a cracked lens? He fussed and fumed then pack it in and hiked back out. Without the shot. Why didn't he think it necessary to carry another lens? Any focal length would have been better than none.
Redundancy. I'm a belt braces type of guy and that's why I will carry the M9 as a backup to my gear. While it might not be as good it sure beats nothing.
All in all an interesting thread. Not sure if it's helping all that much only JPlomley can say.
Redundancy. I'm a belt braces type of guy and that's why I will carry the M9 as a backup to my gear. While it might not be as good it sure beats nothing.
All in all an interesting thread. Not sure if it's helping all that much only JPlomley can say.
I think the whole point here is folks work differently. Like Guy and Don, I have back-up, ALWAYS, even if it's just a simple Panny GH2 and one lens. However, I also appreciate/understand the minimalist's philosophy.
Guy's point is if the OP can only afford a single S2 and a few lenses, he might be better off considering a different system where he can also include an extra body of some sort -- any sort. Don's point is similar.
A few of the other's PoV is that go for the S2 if that's what you want because the form factor suits you and it is cool. That's a relevant comment too -- but only *IF* the OP understands and is willing to accept the consequences of a malfunction. If he is willing to accept that to get the form factor he wants, then by all means I say GO FOR IT! Just be sure to post the images here!!!
Guy's point is if the OP can only afford a single S2 and a few lenses, he might be better off considering a different system where he can also include an extra body of some sort -- any sort. Don's point is similar.
A few of the other's PoV is that go for the S2 if that's what you want because the form factor suits you and it is cool. That's a relevant comment too -- but only *IF* the OP understands and is willing to accept the consequences of a malfunction. If he is willing to accept that to get the form factor he wants, then by all means I say GO FOR IT! Just be sure to post the images here!!!
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
Well to be fair he only had to hike it back to the truck
The double irony of course was that you know that he's not carrying all his gear anyway as there's a team of at least two or three with him, as witnessed by the mysteriously appearing and disappearing tripods as he travels. However, your point is well made. ALWAYS have a back up even if it's a quality P&S.
Those who know me probably consider me the poster child for backup gear because I've broken a MFDB in the Tetons, had a Gitzo lose a leg in Yosemite, dropped a DF & lens in Sedona, plus other minor lens & body incidents over the years. In every case though I've had a backup and the inconvenience of having a breakdown has only ever been temporary. In fact the worst failure I've ever had was a Nikon battery charger that failed on me on a trip - that was the hardest one to handle because all my gear used the same sized pro batteries from that charger!
This is a discussion in which almost everyone has a relevant point. But I cannot imagine someone wanting to ditch that much M equipment for a MFDB system. If I had an M9 and lenses, I do not think I'd be so anxious to get rid of it for any MF system. Having owned MF gear since the 70's that's a pretty radical statement coming from me. But after lugging my Hassy digital equipment around Hawaii, I was longing for an M9. Having shared the load, I am sure my wife would agree. And for the life of me, I cannot imagine anyone wanting any system with such a limited lens lineup. However, everyone has different needs and tastes. Only the OP can make the final decision, but he may have answered his own question in his title for the post.
Greg
Greg
dchew
Well-known member
Regarding the backup, I'm with Shashin on this one based on his, "Last time I was in the mountains" comment. His reality is more like mine and less like Guy's, Graham's or even Peter Lik's.
There is no way I am taking a backup on a 100 mile canoe trip, week-long backpacking excursion or mountaineering. If my tent fails, I improvise or go home. If I lose my ice axe, I tun around. If my camera breaks I stop taking pictures or borrow my partner's. That's just how it is with some types of adventures. I know for sure that is not the reality Guy is thinking of. His is a photography first, other things second view. Mine is get home first, adventure second and photography third. Depends on what you are doing and how you make a living.
Only the OP can place a value on the back-up question.
Dave
There is no way I am taking a backup on a 100 mile canoe trip, week-long backpacking excursion or mountaineering. If my tent fails, I improvise or go home. If I lose my ice axe, I tun around. If my camera breaks I stop taking pictures or borrow my partner's. That's just how it is with some types of adventures. I know for sure that is not the reality Guy is thinking of. His is a photography first, other things second view. Mine is get home first, adventure second and photography third. Depends on what you are doing and how you make a living.
Only the OP can place a value on the back-up question.
Dave
It's interesting that this has turned into a discussion about back-ups. Camera gear always goes down and it's not an "if" but a "when."
Maybe backups are a matter of percentages and what's smart in one situation isn't necessarily smart in another. One of the things to think about is that if a camera goes down for a hobbyist or self-financed photographer then he loses the shoot. But if a camera goes down for a professional then he loses the shoot and the client! One lost shoot for a professional might really be 100 lost shoots depending on what it does to his reputation! That kind of a loss is not a risk worth taking and no professional should ever book a shoot without having access to a backup that is equivalent to the main system. By equivalent, I mean that if the main system is an S2 then the back-up should be an S2 or something in a similar vein (hasselblad or phase) If the client is expecting a DMF file then he'd better get a DMF file, not a Nikon file.
A hobbyist only has to worry about losing one shoot, or one outing, with the loss of a camera. This means that he has a lot more freedom to weigh the risks of not having a back-up with other factors. If he has to make a choice between owning a lower-cost and un-inspirational system with back-up or a high-cost inspirational system without a back-up, then he has the freedom to pick between the two systems based solely on inspiration. Is it really worth working with an un-inspiring system 100% of the time in order to alleviate the fear of a potential gear breakdown that might only happen 1% of the time?
Gear is not usually what kills a shoot anyway. The most common causes for shoot failure are usually due to bad weather, transportation issues or health. Some of the bigger photographers are fortunate enough to book multiple days for a single shoot in order to back them up if/when something goes wrong. For example, as an assistant I remember an auto photographer booking 3 days for a shoot at Lake Mead, NV. The weather was perfect and he was able to get the shots on the first day so the entire crew got to spend the remaining 2 days running around Las Vegas
Maybe backups are a matter of percentages and what's smart in one situation isn't necessarily smart in another. One of the things to think about is that if a camera goes down for a hobbyist or self-financed photographer then he loses the shoot. But if a camera goes down for a professional then he loses the shoot and the client! One lost shoot for a professional might really be 100 lost shoots depending on what it does to his reputation! That kind of a loss is not a risk worth taking and no professional should ever book a shoot without having access to a backup that is equivalent to the main system. By equivalent, I mean that if the main system is an S2 then the back-up should be an S2 or something in a similar vein (hasselblad or phase) If the client is expecting a DMF file then he'd better get a DMF file, not a Nikon file.
A hobbyist only has to worry about losing one shoot, or one outing, with the loss of a camera. This means that he has a lot more freedom to weigh the risks of not having a back-up with other factors. If he has to make a choice between owning a lower-cost and un-inspirational system with back-up or a high-cost inspirational system without a back-up, then he has the freedom to pick between the two systems based solely on inspiration. Is it really worth working with an un-inspiring system 100% of the time in order to alleviate the fear of a potential gear breakdown that might only happen 1% of the time?
Gear is not usually what kills a shoot anyway. The most common causes for shoot failure are usually due to bad weather, transportation issues or health. Some of the bigger photographers are fortunate enough to book multiple days for a single shoot in order to back them up if/when something goes wrong. For example, as an assistant I remember an auto photographer booking 3 days for a shoot at Lake Mead, NV. The weather was perfect and he was able to get the shots on the first day so the entire crew got to spend the remaining 2 days running around Las Vegas
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That happened in post no. 7 and sadly it's drawn attention away from the OP's original questions which I think are yet to be answered. They were about high ISO performance and model replacement.
Back-ups can be completely unnecessary. What's needed is a Clear Path To Recovery. It's not a wedding, or a fashion shoot, he's embarking on, it's a personal project. In the event of a calamity, maybe a day or two out of action would be disappointing and inconvenient, maybe an old Rolleiflex would suffice (not a recommendation here). He has to decide his way out of any problem possible, including lost baggage on his outbound trip.
In his opening, the OP describes the S2 as 'the perfect tool" (for him). That's what he should go with and make sure that his adventure trips won't be ruined. The S2 could be far more rewarding than the M9, so why should he compromise if his bases are covered ?
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Ben Rubinstein
Active member
You people are funny. No it isn't a wedding but if you set aside a month from work, travel to another country for an important personal project and find you can't do it then suddenly backups become very important again because you can't do your project, you've wasted a fortune in travel and accomodation and it may take a year or years until you can do it again.
I wouldn't go to do a project like those with no wide angle, apparently neither would the OP. I can't understand why anyone would recommend a camera which is unsuited for the job due to the limited lens choice, especially as it means selling every other camera he owns and all he needs is one theft or one breakage and it's the most unsuitible camera for the job possible.
I wouldn't go to do a project like those with no wide angle, apparently neither would the OP. I can't understand why anyone would recommend a camera which is unsuited for the job due to the limited lens choice, especially as it means selling every other camera he owns and all he needs is one theft or one breakage and it's the most unsuitible camera for the job possible.
It's pretty clear to me that the OP has made up his mind about what equipment he'd like to have. With all this talk about the importance of backups I've been wondering why nobody has mentioned Leica's Platinum Service package. If I were the OP I'd get in touch with Leica and find out if they offer it in Cuba.
"The customer is entitled to loan a similar replacement unit for the duration of repairs. Leica has set up and manages a pool of replacement cameras available for loan. These are spread geographically across the regions. After having verified that the customer is entitled to loan equipment, the dispatch is organised by Leica Solms or individual local agencies in Europe and Africa and by Leica USA in America and by the individual local agencies in Asia and Australia. The Leica S-System dealers manage the loan. The loan process does not take place directly between Leica and the customer.
The replacement unit is generally available on the following working day. Leica strives to offer a “next day” service together with its logistics service provider, subject to the loan request being submitted by 4 p.m.. This service depends on the country-specific import and customs regulations and can therefore not be guaranteed worldwide. This Platinum service feature can not be offered in Central and South American countries and India. Leica strives to make the replacement unit available as quickly as possible."
"The customer is entitled to loan a similar replacement unit for the duration of repairs. Leica has set up and manages a pool of replacement cameras available for loan. These are spread geographically across the regions. After having verified that the customer is entitled to loan equipment, the dispatch is organised by Leica Solms or individual local agencies in Europe and Africa and by Leica USA in America and by the individual local agencies in Asia and Australia. The Leica S-System dealers manage the loan. The loan process does not take place directly between Leica and the customer.
The replacement unit is generally available on the following working day. Leica strives to offer a “next day” service together with its logistics service provider, subject to the loan request being submitted by 4 p.m.. This service depends on the country-specific import and customs regulations and can therefore not be guaranteed worldwide. This Platinum service feature can not be offered in Central and South American countries and India. Leica strives to make the replacement unit available as quickly as possible."
Stop confusing the issue with facts :ROTFL:
I had a S2 replacement in 24 hours. However it was here in the USA, so the OPs destinations would have to be checked for availability ... or the dealer would have to make arrangements in advance for a possible back-up if the need arises.
(Not endorsing anything here, just stating my experience).
-Marc
Just a thought...mild heresy but here goes.
Let's assume that Jeff buys an S2(-P) and needs a backup.
Pentax P67 Body
P67 55
P67 105 or 100 Macro
Adapter
All for half the price of a second lens.....they are giving these things away right now. Not fast aperatures but pretty bulletproof stuff....might work in a pinch.
Bob
Let's assume that Jeff buys an S2(-P) and needs a backup.
Pentax P67 Body
P67 55
P67 105 or 100 Macro
Adapter
All for half the price of a second lens.....they are giving these things away right now. Not fast aperatures but pretty bulletproof stuff....might work in a pinch.
Bob
PeterA
Well-known member
I would say that the S2 is no more suitable for street photography than your typical MF camera. Lets be honest here - it is a bazooka compared to an M9. Its lenses are just as confronting to people as the bazooka lenses on other MF cameras and CaNikons - all these cameras are big boys with big glass hanging off them.
I would also say that the M9 is a far better travel weapon of choice than any of these bazookas - but the M9 is not the easiest camera to get the most out of itself - you are using a rangefinder and 18 megapixels with no AF or focus confirmation - typically with fast glass wide open you exaggerate the difficulties. I get more keepers out of my old M8 than my M9 because of this fact - but no one talks about real world and everyone is a hero when it comes to megapixel wars.
All that being said - everyone knows that the best camera you have is the one in your hand - an the camera one should have in their hand is the camera that one enjoys using the most. This fun factor typically works wonders for the photographer.
So my 2cents is buy and use what turns you on. Hey my favourite walk around camera is an Alpa and it doesn't have auto anything - except what I bring to the party between my ears.
Good luck with your decision making and photo adventures - have fun and in good health.
Pete
I would also say that the M9 is a far better travel weapon of choice than any of these bazookas - but the M9 is not the easiest camera to get the most out of itself - you are using a rangefinder and 18 megapixels with no AF or focus confirmation - typically with fast glass wide open you exaggerate the difficulties. I get more keepers out of my old M8 than my M9 because of this fact - but no one talks about real world and everyone is a hero when it comes to megapixel wars.
All that being said - everyone knows that the best camera you have is the one in your hand - an the camera one should have in their hand is the camera that one enjoys using the most. This fun factor typically works wonders for the photographer.
So my 2cents is buy and use what turns you on. Hey my favourite walk around camera is an Alpa and it doesn't have auto anything - except what I bring to the party between my ears.
Good luck with your decision making and photo adventures - have fun and in good health.
Pete