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Thread: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

  1. #51
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    I'm not sure if DAC could deal with colour shifts as it does vignetting, I guess that's what custom colour is for (enabled in Phocus 1.1).
    Nick-T

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I wonder if the elves will include corrections for use of the HTS with the H3D-II/31 Nick? It seems you could plot color shift for key lenses and include it in automatic software corrections also. Maybe a bit much to ask, but it does seem possible doesn't it? Or are there to many variables?

    BTW, someone should tell Hasselblad to try nicely finished metel knobs instead of plastic ... at least make it look like the price it will cost
    Why would you get colour shifts? It is not a view camera and you'll be using retrofocus lenses...
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Why would you get colour shifts? It is not a view camera and you'll be using retrofocus lenses...
    Not an issue with 22 meg, 39 meg, and I assume 50 meg backs ... but the 31 meg back employs micro lenses similar to the Phase One counterpart ... and are not optimal for T/S work on a Tech camera due to color shifts with more extreme shifts or tilts. I assume this would be true here also ... but maybe not. That is a good question actually.

    If it is true, the question then is, could a software solution be formulated, since the specific lens data is tranmitted to the file when using the HTS? Not the DAC already available, but another software option to correct the color shifts with the H3D/31 micro lens backs.

    I guess we'll see. I know Mark K is very interested in this possible solution for his H3D-II/31.

  4. #54
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Why would you get colour shifts? It is not a view camera and you'll be using retrofocus lenses...
    Yair

    When will the AFI 10 be available to play with in ny?

    thanks!

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Not an issue with 22 meg, 39 meg, and I assume 50 meg backs ... but the 31 meg back employs micro lenses similar to the Phase One counterpart ... and are not optimal for T/S work on a Tech camera due to color shifts with more extreme shifts or tilts. I assume this would be true here also ... but maybe not. That is a good question actually.

    If it is true, the question then is, could a software solution be formulated, since the specific lens data is tranmitted to the file when using the HTS? Not the DAC already available, but another software option to correct the color shifts with the H3D/31 micro lens backs.

    I guess we'll see. I know Mark K is very interested in this possible solution for his H3D-II/31.
    When used on a view camera with a non-retrofocal lens, 22, 39 and probably 50 will produce colour shifts that can be corrected by using a diffuser filter and doing a calibration (each manufacturer has a different name for it with a different procedure).

    The 31MP Kodak, because of the microlenses, may have shifts that cannot be corrected in this situation.

    But the HTS makes your retrofocus lenses sit even farther away from the sensor so there should not be any problems. I don't know of anyone who's got problems with a Canon or a Nikon and T/S lenses...same thing...

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickr View Post
    Yair

    When will the AFI 10 be available to play with in ny?

    thanks!
    PhotoPlus 23-25 October on the Leaf stand.

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  7. #57
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    When used on a view camera with a non-retrofocal lens, 22, 39 and probably 50 will produce colour shifts that can be corrected by using a diffuser filter and doing a calibration (each manufacturer has a different name for it with a different procedure).

    The 31MP Kodak, because of the microlenses, may have shifts that cannot be corrected in this situation.

    But the HTS makes your retrofocus lenses sit even farther away from the sensor so there should not be any problems. I don't know of anyone who's got problems with a Canon or a Nikon and T/S lenses...same thing...

    Yair
    Okay, but I thought the original comment was that the HTS 1.5 on an H1 body would be a problem because the H1 lacks connective features that the H3 has? It seems to me the HTS was made for the new H3, not the H1 and that was my original question. Of course, no one has done this test yet, so it's all theory right now, correct?

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickr View Post
    Okay, but I thought the original comment was that the HTS 1.5 on an H1 body would be a problem because the H1 lacks connective features that the H3 has? It seems to me the HTS was made for the new H3, not the H1 and that was my original question. Of course, no one has done this test yet, so it's all theory right now, correct?
    It'll only be a problem on the H1 if its optics are poorly designed, but we don't know that yet...

    The comment was about the 31MP Vs the others with regards to performing with movements since it's got problems on view cameras...but the HTS is not a view camera...

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickr View Post
    Okay, but I thought the original comment was that the HTS 1.5 on an H1 body would be a problem because the H1 lacks connective features that the H3 has? It seems to me the HTS was made for the new H3, not the H1 and that was my original question. Of course, no one has done this test yet, so it's all theory right now, correct?
    It's not a problem any more than any tech camera would be. I use the H backs on a Rollei Xact2 which has zero connectivity. It sounds like the connectivity of the HTS is similar to that of the H3 cameras which provides added DAC benefits available in the software.

    What Yair proposes is that the HTS may not produce the color shifts with the microlens backs that happens on tech cameras. That is remains to be seen.

  10. #60
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It's not a problem any more than any tech camera would be. I use the H backs on a Rollei Xact2 which has zero connectivity. It sounds like the connectivity of the HTS is similar to that of the H3 cameras which provides added DAC benefits available in the software.

    What Yair proposes is that the HTS may not produce the color shifts with the microlens backs that happens on tech cameras. That is remains to be seen.
    I suspect the HTS will not work with the H1 body. For one, Hblad says nothing about this on their site, and two, they've already shown they care little about component continuity as evidenced by the H1 and H2 bodies not being compatible with the new 28mm lens. They want to sell H3's with their digital back and no one elses, that's obvious.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nickr View Post
    I suspect the HTS will not work with the H1 body. For one, Hblad says nothing about this on their site, and two, they've already shown they care little about component continuity as evidenced by the H1 and H2 bodies not being compatible with the new 28mm lens. They want to sell H3's with their digital back and no one elses, that's obvious.
    You "suspect" incorrectly. Hasselblad says it WILL WORK with all H cameras right on their site:

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/news/ha...t-adapter.aspx

    "The HTS 1.5 uses optical elements, which enlarge the image circle of the lens by a factor 1.5 to allow for the +/- 18 mm range of shift movement. Focal length is also magnified by 1.5. Tilt can be set between -10° and +10° and the adapter can rotate +/- 90 degrees, maximizing the flexibility of using the plane of sharpness for various technical or creative uses. The HTS 1.5 adapter is compatible with all H system cameras for basic mechanical use. Access to automatic digital lens corrections and focusing requires that the HTS 1.5 adapter be used together with a Hasselblad digital capture product."

    It also appears integrated automation will make it easier to use than a standard tech camera:

    "The HTS 1.5 is equipped with integral sensors on all axes that tell the camera exactly where the lens is positioned and what its optical axis point is, so that correct perspective and lens alignment are obtained automatically within the camera. The sensors also communicate key data to the camera in order to enable Hasselblad’s digital lens correction for optimal image quality. Certain lens movements require that the image be refocused, and with the HTS 1.5 solution, this occurs automatically too. These superior results are achieved by integrating superior digital technology with the benefits of superior optic movements."

    The refocusing is one of the biggest "pain-in-the-***" of using a T/S camera ... so automation of this is a welcome feature IMO.
    Last edited by fotografz; 6th August 2008 at 09:55.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    The guys that design software corrections for this stuff must be geniuses. I can barely understand what the issues are and these guys have fixes for it. Hat's off to Hassy if they pull this off well, and no reason to suspect they won't.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Man, it seems like a lot of trouble and expense to build the HTS and DAC corrections. You would think there would be a better way...like making a T/S lens with superior optics and movements from the get go.

  14. #64
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Regarding the use of the HTS 1.5, what does this mean if you are using a Leaf chip on a Hassy H1 body:

    "Access to automatic digital lens corrections and focusing requires that the HTS 1.5 adapter be used together with a Hasselblad digital capture product."

    Does it mean you need a Hassy chip back in order to focus? Or are they speaking of auto focus only, and you actually can focus with a non "Hasselblad digital capture product"?
    Or, are they considering an H1 body "a Hasselblad digital product" even if it's another companies chip attached to it?

    thanks if you know.
    Last edited by nickr; 6th August 2008 at 14:46.

  15. #65
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    You "suspect" incorrectly. Hasselblad says it WILL WORK with all H cameras right on their site:

    The HTS 1.5 adapter is compatible with all H system cameras for basic mechanical use.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] Access to automatic digital lens corrections and focusing requires that the HTS 1.5 adapter be used together with a Hasselblad digital capture product."
    I saw that spec page previously and it didn't mention the H1 body and the wording is vague regarding the specific question, that is, an H1 with other non Hassy backs using the HTS, and what "basic mechanical use" means. I'm not the only one who is questioning performance with an H1, a lot of people are unclear, and thus I still suspect performance on an H1 at this point:

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...H3DII-50.shtml

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Man, it seems like a lot of trouble and expense to build the HTS and DAC corrections. You would think there would be a better way...like making a T/S lens with superior optics and movements from the get go.
    The HTS works with four different existing focal lengths ... not one. 28, 35, 50 and 80mm. What would four medium format T/S lenses cost?

    The DAC correction software already exists.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    I found this interesting expression in the Urban dictionary:

    turd polishing - The act of trying to make something hopelessly weak and unattractive appear strong and appealing. An impossible process that usually results in a larger, uglier turd.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    The data sheet on the HTS has an image on it of the H3DII-31...
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    The data sheet on the HTS has an image on it of the H3DII-31...
    They should show it on a H1, which is a discontinued model?

    Hasselblad says it'll work on any H camera ... mechanically. Which makes sense because you can use their backs on any viewcamera.

    Since the older models do not have the connectivity communications of the later model H3D or H2F, the software enhancements won't be available to H1 or H2 cameras.

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    They should show it on a H1, which is a discontinued model?

    Hasselblad says it'll work on any H camera ... mechanically. Which makes sense because you can use their backs on any viewcamera.

    Since the older models do not have the connectivity communications of the later model H3D or H2F, the software enhancements won't be available to H1 or H2 cameras.
    There was a question about its compatibility with the 31...
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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Leaf AFi 10 (with more to follow)

    Either something works or it doesn't .

    I suspect that the thing will work - I am encouraged by the value and the potential of DAC correction technology - by just looking at the quality of the file I get from my HC28 processed in Phocus using same.

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