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Thread: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

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    Super Duper
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    Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    If you are, what are you using and any sample with and without the filter?

    Thanks

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Schneider doesn't list one (yet): https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecom...y.aspx?CID=182 (Click the PDF link at end of last paragraph.)

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    I was told that Schneider is Working on a CF for both the 43 and the 28XL and should " be released shortly"

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    I find it amazing how long it takes them to work on them... I heard the same phrase a week after the 43mm got realeased...

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Terry, I was told by Cambo a few weeks ago: "Center Filters for the 28XL as well as the 43XL will become available within the next few weeks, so meaning in July ready for sale."

    I have ordered a CF for my 43mm. Not bothering to wait and see the obligatory forum tests.

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Great. I will get an order in for one as well. Thanks for the info.

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Sorry to dig up an old thread but did Schneider ever deliver on the centre filter for the 43XL?

    Before I pester my dealer about them, I would love to see some examples of before and after pics, plus any user experiences if they do actually exist now.

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Now estimated by Schneider for delivery in February.

    Given previous promises/delay it seems wise to take that with a bit of salt.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    I find that with this kind of gear that it doesn't hurt to ask which year the month pertains to. (but semi-serious alas)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    What is it with these LF companies?

    I'm sure there is more to it but is a CF not just a clear glass filter with a simple grad pattern to match the lens...... Not hard IMO and doesn't take 2 years to design.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    I was told back in June that the calculations were complete. Maybe the threads are the tricky part.

    Dave

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    What is it with these LF companies?

    I'm sure there is more to it but is a CF not just a clear glass filter with a simple grad pattern to match the lens...... Not hard IMO and doesn't take 2 years to design.
    Someone actually told me that there is no other type of filter that is even remotely as complicated and difficult to calculate and produce as centre filters, hence timeline and pricepoint.

    How truthful this statement is, I do not know, but atleast it could explain the somewhat slow progress to a finished product.
    Alpa FPS MAX TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Someone actually told me that there is no other type of filter that is even remotely as complicated and difficult to calculate and produce as centre filters, hence timeline and pricepoint.
    Probably very true but still very frustrating.

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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Terry,
    Not sure if this question came up later in another thread, but I finally got the center filter yesterday!

    I have not had time to find a critical view for a robust test, but I did run out last evening and grab a few LCC's. This is on an IQ180 / Alpa STC, shifted 18mm right. I would show you the associated images but they are deceiving because the sky was getting dark and uneven.

    I think it looks very promising. Sorry for the dust spots...

    Ciao,
    Dave

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Hi Dave

    I have the CF for the 43XL on order and if what I think I'm seeing from your results I'll be very happy.

    Are the the LCC's with the magenta stripe exactly the same as the clear LCC but shot without the CF? If thats correct it makes a massive difference to the amount of usable shift the 43XL has.

    Have you got any pictures of what it looks like mounted to the lens?

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Gareth,
    No, sorry that is not what I'm showing. Those are the raw unadjusted LCC vs. adjusted. All had the cf mounted.

    I might have some time at lunch to do a few images for comparison with and without. I will also see what I can do about a photo of the lens with cf mounted. More to come...

    Dave
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    LCC's with and without the CF to show the difference would be really interesting and not forgetting the camera porn.

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    I agree , it would be really much more helpful to compare LCCs unadjusted with and without using the CF to make a judgement.
    On paper the 43XL specs look really great but Schneider overstated the usable image circle so IMHO the CF might be the last lease of life for this lens if movements are crucial.

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    LCC's with and without the CF to show the difference would be really interesting and not forgetting the camera porn.

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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    porn follows; 43 with CF


  20. #20
    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Warning: Long post!
    This has been an enlightening few days. Every time I do a test like this I gain more respect for people who do robust tests. It’s very hard to do, and I don’t think this one is all that robust. There are so many factors that come into play even when doing something as simple as trying to compare a shot with vs without a center filter (CF). Same back, same camera, same lens, same f-stop; still a myriad of problems…

    The biggest problem is the center filter changes the exposure (obviously). The only way to account for that in this test is to use the shutter speed since the test is very dependent on f-stop. Shutter speed is in 1-stop increments, which is too coarse. In order to get images to compare I had to reduce exposure on the shots with a CF by an average of -0.27 (1/4 stop).

    The next problem is the LCC over-compensates for light falloff in my opinion. I don’t understand this since the LCC image is dead flat across the frame once correction is applied to itself. Yet when applying the LCC to an image it definitely gets brighter out at the edges. Compounding the problem is the fact that blue sky is not even across a wide 43mm frame, especially when shifted. This time of year the sun is still too low in the sky where I live to get an even distribution across the frame. All this is important because as the lens fails out at the edge it gets de-saturated and contrast goes flat with the LCC applied. It is not easy to judge between these failures when the image appears to be getting brighter at the same time. This overcompensation brings up the question: Should I do this test with “Light Falloff” at 100% to produce a technical comparison or should I mess with that slider, which of course adds my subjective eyes into the equation…? In the end I did one example both ways.

    This could have to do with how I shoot an LCC. I simply slow the shutter speed 2-3 stops, hold the card with my thumb and middle finger in front of the lens with my hand below or to the side and shoot. I target a brightness of 200-230 after the LCC is applied. Is that too bright? Is my hand affecting the LCC? I should know this stuff!!

    I did these tests with horizontal shift because with the IQ180 shifting the long direction has significantly more color problems. I will show the result of a vertical stitch shifted 18mm L/R.

    Conclusions:
    In these images, adding the CF makes a difference, but not as much as I hoped. A better test would be one where the image has some dark areas in the corners in order to compare noise in the 6-12mm shift range. I suspect that would show a bigger difference.

    After about 10-11mm shift, the image gets pretty soft for my taste. So for me success is defined as getting a “well-corrected” image out to 11mm shift. In that regard, I am glad I got the CF. Not to mention the LCC will not work as hard on all un-shifted images.

    All of this is image dependent. There are many images I have that look pretty darn good out farther than 11mm because the subject matter is forgiving. Even in architecture, a gray building could be shifted more than one with strong colors because of the saturation problems.

    The problem here is clearly the IQ180’s ability to handle light at steep angles. A 18mm horizontal shift both ways is a 98mm image circle. The 43xl is supposed to have a 110mm IC, and I bet it does. This is not much of a light falloff problem; it is a colorcast problem. That’s why the CF does not make a huge difference.

    The good news is it improved the image to the degree I needed. Horizontal shifts go to about 11mm, which I am happy with. Vertical shifts (movement in the short-side direction) seem to work very well. With a simple grad adjustment in LR (saved as a preset), I get workable stitches. So for me it is staying on the lens and was worth the $$.

    Technical stuff:
    SK 43xl Alpa mount
    Schneider center filter IIie
    Alpa STC
    IQ180
    Phase One LCC card
    Processed in Capture One 6.3.5 using “Analyze (technical wideangle)”
    Color readout applied to image center then Exposure adjusted to match
    Exported to Lightroom 4 as 16bit tiffs with sharpening disabled
    Apply sharpening in LR
    Experimented with grad adjustment in LR

    Please don’t judge these images on sharpness or artistic qualities. Frankly they suck for that.

    Sand Pile
    This was my first attempt. Unfortunately I moved the camera when taking off the CF, but the clouds moved anyway. You can clearly see what happens on the right side. Now before you scream too loud, that is the equivalent of a 98mm image circle. I think the CF extends the usable image area about 1/3 further than without the CF.
    With CF


    No CF



    Here is a quick attempt to add a grad in LR to the CF image. There is a contrast & saturation boost, along with tint adjustment to reduce magenta cast.



    Settling Pond
    Another direct comparison with and without a CF. First with no LCC applied:
    With CF


    No CF



    Here with LCC’s. Subtle, but the CF image has less cast. I adjusted the falloff on these images: with CF 67% falloff, without CF 81% falloff.
    With CF


    No CF


    Here is the CF image with a LR grad added on the left side to compensate for contrast, saturation and magenta cast. Still needs a bit of work...



    Ladue Reservoir
    This is a three-image vertical stitch shifted 18mm. Turns the 43 into a 32mm. Nothing was done other than applying the LCC’s and stitching in Photoshop CS6b. This image is 150MP


    With a little bit of work I think this is a usable combination. Before I only went to about 12mm.



    Camera Porn
    Here you go…




    Ciao,

    Dave
    Last edited by dchew; 7th April 2012 at 13:58.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Anyone using a center filter on the 43XL

    Great results and thanks for doing these tests.

    Like you say, I don't think it makes a massive difference to the coulour cast but I imagine would make a world of difference if shooting a not quite so well illuminated subject. Less work for C1 is only a good thing with regards to noise.

    Can't wait to get mine but in typical Schneider fashion, I ordered mine weeks ago and still no sign of it.

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