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Thread: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Well it's finally here and I managed to get in 75 shots on two bodies (DF and WRS) and five lenses (Mammy 28, Phase 80 2.8, Schneider Kreutz 110 LS, Hartblei 45 TS and Schneider 35 XL) and so far, so really quite good.

    The Mammy 28 won't do and will have to go. I think I have a good sample, but as a lens design it has never really convinced me and its weaknesses aren't artistically interesting.

    The Phase 80mm is very good

    The Sch/Kr 110 LS is as excellent as ever

    The Hartblei is just mental, and anyone who thinks focus mask is truly useful in a tight corner should try iterative Scheimpflug with it. But I can forgive the Hartblei's being now officially out of its depth because it's errors are exciting and to my eye beautiful. It is also extremely sharp on centre when correctly focussed and I love it's saturated colour rendition.

    The 35XL manages to excel as it always has: set it to F16 on a good tripod and a Cube, focus at around 5 metres, and all is good. But so far I have not tried shifts on it , and that will be the true test. However, at ISO35 and with correctly done LCC using the technical wide angle function in C1, I am not seeing any problems unshifted other than a bit of noise in the far reaches when I have underexposed (in order to avoid blowing a bright white sky).

    Other thoughts:

    I am going to get a CF if for the 35XL if it fares reasonably with moderate shifts. I hope that will allow, happily, the upcoming Live View to work without further ND filters.

    I LOVE the artificial horizon. Cube bubble levels are their only inaccurate feature and the IQ180 version is lovely.

    The screen is a joy and helps, rather than gets in the way of, the process of taking a photo. I don't know if it's worth all the extra cash but for me it might make the difference between staying in and getting out of MF.

    I am initially unimpressed with Sensor+... at anything over ISO1600 I'd rather have a 5DII - but I need to work with it a lot more before I firm that opinion up.

    General speed and consistency and UI are great BUT on a lens like the Hartblei with MF and manual aperture, using MUP leads to failed fires about half the time, for no apparent reason, and you have to turn the camera on and off (sometimes twice) before it will unlock the mirror for another try. I am almost certainly doing something wrong but I don't know what.

    Anyhoooo... so far so good. A lot more testing to be done before I know what I can and can't make it do but me likee.

    tim

    ps thanks a LOT to Doug Peterson at CI for all the PM help he has given me: he has nothing to gain from it (I am in the UK) but his passion, commitment and general very nice guy-ness shine through regardless. He is the man. Add him to all the helpful people here, especially Jack and Guy, and I feel in very competent advisory hands as I explore the new tech.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    You're very welcome. I know you've been waiting for your back with great excitement! I'm very glad for you it arrived!

    Generally speaking I'd also rather have a 5DII for anything above ISO1600. But I'd rather have one camera I can shoot for everything if my needs only extend to ISO1600. ISO3200 is really only usable (for my purposes) for black and white images using the Fine Grain slider in C1.

    The magic of Sensor+ to me is that I can shoot both super high quality ISO32 80mp images and ISO1600 20mp images (and gain shooting speed) without having to carry two bodies.

    Also, any time you start working with the top end of ISO from any new (to you) camera you'll have to put in the time to play with processing settings to make your own trade-offs between grain, detail, color, noise, and clarity. Never (fully) trust someone else's suggested settings and definitely never trust defaults.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    General speed and consistency and UI are great BUT on a lens like the Hartblei with MF and manual aperture, using MUP leads to failed fires about half the time, for no apparent reason, and you have to turn the camera on and off (sometimes twice) before it will unlock the mirror for another try. I am almost certainly doing something wrong but I don't know what.
    There does seem to be a MUP bug. We've experienced it and are looking into it. You should double check that your DF firmware is up to date (1.23 as of this week) as it may eliminate the issue to simply update the DF firmware (but also maybe not - still researching). These sorts of bugs tend to be sorted out very quickly via a firmware update; I'd contact your dealer so they are aware.

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    Last edited by dougpeterson; 29th June 2011 at 15:17.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Congrats Tim . Yes I'm with Doug up to Iso 1600 it's a thing of beauty but you need more than that get a DSLR. For me I never get past 1600 and if I had to I would rather light a whole stadium instead. Lol

    But think about this where else you gonna get a 80 mpx monster and a 20 mpx save your butt in one cam . Nowhere

    For me I make that iso1600 my replacement for a DSLR after that it's a pray. Lol
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  5. #5
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Tim - congratulations. Sounds like ours were in the same batch - mine is now in transit to me in HK

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Congrats Tim,

    Bit of a roundabout journey for you to get here though it was, I think you'll be really, really happy with your decision
    Jack
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    The 35XL manages to excel as it always has: set it to F16 on a good tripod and a Cube, focus at around 5 metres, and all is good. But so far I have not tried shifts on it , and that will be the true test. However, at ISO35 and with correctly done LCC using the technical wide angle function in C1, I am not seeing any problems unshifted other than a bit of noise in the far reaches when I have underexposed (in order to avoid blowing a bright white sky).
    Apologize if this is hijacking the thread, but the other thread has run out of steam, and this seems a good thread to post real world experiences with the new IQ180 and various lenses.

    Guess I need to know what I'm doing wrong, because at this point the 35xl is unusable. Without any shifting on my 12max/IQ180 using the schneider 35xl with center filter, if I apply an LCC for technical wide angle, I get overcorrection for falloff and still have some color cast which is not corrected.

    Uncorrected image


    uncorrected LCC


    corrected LCC ... so far so good


    image with LCC applied


    As you can see, my edges are lighter, and I still have a magenta cast on sides and on top.

    Here I've reduced the Falloff slider to 35% then added a +.21EV vignette correction, I may be able to fiddle with these sliders and come up with a decent setting, but no matter what I do, I still see color cast.



    I do see banding ... not consistent there is more on the right side of the image than the left, but the LCC seems to remedy that.

    This is with the lens unshifted, I"m sure shifting would add to the problem.

    I'm confused by the discoloration of the LCC shot in the middle of the image ... not sure what is causing color casts there. Seems it should be fairly neutral until the edges where the angles are getting extreme.

    Any advice as to something I may be doing most appreciated, as my experience is definitely different.
    wayne
    My gallery

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Wayne, that's one strange looking LCC ... you might expect the EV fall off and perhaps a linear magenta/blue shift across the image but the central color rendering or repeating magenta/blue shift looks very unusual.

    I'm intrigued as to what the answer will be to your questions & observations. I think that there's a whole new set of sensor technology/optical phenomena to learn about here.

    Btw, do you think that the central magenta cast is related to the subject? It seems to be a close match to the white vehicles/foliage in the middle ground of your image.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Apologize if this is hijacking the thread, but the other thread has run out of steam, and this seems a good thread to post real world experiences with the new IQ180 and various lenses.

    Guess I need to know what I'm doing wrong, because at this point the 35xl is unusable. Without any shifting on my 12max/IQ180 using the schneider 35xl with center filter, if I apply an LCC for technical wide angle, I get overcorrection for falloff and still have some color cast which is not corrected.



    uncorrected LCC


    corrected LCC ... so far so good

    Wayne

    That is quite a color cast issue you report here .
    For my better understanding , can you please explain : what is an uncorrected LCC and then in turn of course , what is a corrected LCC .
    What is corrected and why ? ? ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Jurgen,

    The uncorrected LCC image is the image as shot using a white translucent card. The corrected LCC is what you get when you have Capture One calculate the LCC and which it then applies to the original image. You should end up with a uniform grey result.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    I'll do some more tests today but try:
    1) no cf with 'analyse technical wide angle'

    And

    2) cf with 'analyse'

    I have a (very likely stupid) idea but am on iphone and it's too long to type!

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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Jurgen,

    The uncorrected LCC image is the image as shot using a white translucent card. The corrected LCC is what you get when you have Capture One calculate the LCC and which it then applies to the original image. You should end up with a uniform grey result.
    Thanks Graham

    This is understood so far . As I work with PHOCUS it looks a bit different .
    I create , using PHOCUS function , a LCC correction image , like C1 does , but I have never really seen the corrected LLC which is then is "applied" to my desired image .
    All I could see up to now is , that the color cast disappears . More or less perfect .
    I will check for that in PHOCUS later today .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Here is an example from yesterday evening. The corrected LCC frame is slightly too red in the edges and corners, and slightly too weak on green - I didn't eyedrop the frame to check this yesterday evening because I was having too much fun and because the result looked OK but then I wasn't really going to use it for anything other than a quick test. Nonetheless I wouldn't say it was egregious. Maybe it's worse in some circumstances than others?







    I also tried a version having used the simple Analyse, rather than Analyse Technical Wide Angle LCC tool and the result is brighter but has similar mild colour variation.

    Do other people think the corrected version above has an obvious cast?

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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Tim

    Your files are protected . Hence , can't have a look .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Sorry, will undo that now!

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    OK here's another quick try-out from this morning. First an LCC corrected unshifted frame, 35XL on Cambo WRS, F16 and ISO35, ignore the EXIF: shutter speed was 1/30th (and I think the IQ180 is less good at guessing shutter speed than the P65+ was...). Secondly a flat stitch made from two frames, one shifted ten left and one ten right, both with bespoke WA LCC frames made and applied. I have stitched it using the whole of the right hand frame so you can see all of it and its attendant falloff, so not truly fair, but this is clearly not useable in any event. I will try to ascertain to what degree I actually can shift and get away with it. BTW all these shots were taken at the same WB and I have made no other corrections aside from LCC. The shifted frames are darker because the light was moving and I wanted to keep as much else constant as possible.




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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Wayne,
    Similar to Graham's notes, does the LCC always look like that in regards to the magenta band 30% up the frame horizontally? Or was it unique to this image/subject? What happens if you remove the center filter? Obviously some things will be worse, but I wonder if the band is still there without the CF.

    That band looks a bit like the one Christopher posted here. Not sure if you saw that thread. Also not sure if/how he resolved the issue, but it looked like it might be a problem with the back. If you take an LCC with the back on your DF, then do some dramatic adjustments in C1 like Christopher did in that thread, is there any hint of that magenta band?

    Dave

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Here's another, this time shifted five right and five left then flat stitched down more or less the middle to give a file 12203x7760, or 94.7mp.

    Again, 35XL on Cambo WRS, IQ180, 35 ISO, 1/30th F16 with bespoke LCC's made using analyse tech WA.

    What do people see (other than the luminosity mismatch due to the flat stitching and light changing a little)?


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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Tim, I'd say it was still unusable IMO. The far edges of the frame on both sides of the stitch have lost most of their colour. Also, the scene you have chosen is what I would call a kind example. If that was a building interior with shifting light patterns, textures and colours the results would be terrible IMO.

    I had some similar issues on my P65+ with a 43XL out at 15mm and the results just look weird. I had to correct the images in PS to even out the colour loss. Might be a time to switch to Rodenstock wides as I'm thinking of doing a 43XL, 40HR-W swap or just going full out for the 32HR-W.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Hartblei at F16 1/20th ISO35 on a Cube, C1 lens adjustment for Phase 45mm TS applied.

    Full sized JPEG image available at
    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p512009...980ca#hb67e7c4




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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Googaliser View Post
    Tim - congratulations. Sounds like ours were in the same batch - mine is now in transit to me in HK
    Hi Googaliser
    Greetings from HK
    Not TO hijack this thread but I was wondering if your receiving GE IQ from Charles at Northlight?
    Tried to PM you but no info on you.
    I received mine around 4 weeks ago
    Have fun with it
    Let me know if you'd like to hook up
    I think you must be the second one in China receiving it
    Grischa

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hartblei at F16 1/20th ISO35 on a Cube, C1 lens adjustment for Phase 45mm TS applied.
    Tim, Downloaded you full size image and it is much better regarding fall off/colour shift but the edges on the RHS especially are extremely soft so not much better in use than the 35XL.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Hi Gareth, I'm agreeing with all your conclusions so far!

    More to come...

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    for the last stitched version, i am seeing better color match across the two image halves, but a definite seam and what looks like an exposure mismatch and maybe color mismatch at the right of the center (probably in the right portion of the overlap)

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Wayne, what WB setting did you apply to your image and LCC prior to rendering the LCC? And did you by any chance adjust WB for the image and not the LCC before you applied it? Finally, was the LCC frame shot immediately after the image under similar lighting conditions?
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    And here is the Mamiya 28mm F4.5 with full C1 corrections for that lens enabled. The sweet spot for this lens on the IQ180 seems to be F11 - anything wider is too soft and anything tighter is diffraction limited. Like the Hartblei, this is looking a little soft on the right hand side but reviewing shots from the Phase 80 and Sch/Kr110LS, I am not seeing that issue there so I think it's not a back/body fit issue - though I must say that the back is slightly less tight on the WRS than was my P65+.

    Full sized JPEG available at
    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p512009...4efc#h2f404efc



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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    for the last stitched version, i am seeing better color match across the two image halves, but a definite seam and what looks like an exposure mismatch and maybe color mismatch at the right of the center (probably in the right portion of the overlap)
    Exposure, WB and so on remained constant, but as is so often teh case, light levels (and therefore colour temperature) were varying as the clouds moved. Don't forget this is a flat stitch so no effort is put into matching the halves other than identical exposures.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    And here is the Mamiya 28mm F4.5 with full C1 corrections for that lens enabled. The sweet spot for this lens on the IQ180 seems to be F11 - anything wider is too soft and anything tighter is diffraction limited. Like the Hartblei, this is looking a little soft on the right hand side but reviewing shots from the Phase 80 and Sch/Kr110LS, I am not seeing that issue there so I think it's not a back/body fit issue - though I must say that the back is slightly less tight on the WRS than was my P65+.

    Full sized JPEG available at
    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p512009...4efc#h2f404efc


    Think of the Phase 28mm as a 30mm on a FF sensor. You can give up a few Mpx. LOL
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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Think of the Phase 28mm as a 30mm on a FF sensor. You can give up a few Mpx. LOL
    I agree - though by the time I've shaved those pixels I might as well haul out the Schneider 35XL on the Cambo and use the 'real thing'
    ;-)

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Yup . I get that thinking very well. I kept my 35mm D and did not switch to the 28D.

    But I'm after a 28mm on a Cambo or Arca. I will test one next week and see how it does with my sensor. Waiting for all you 28mm lens shooters to start giving them away. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    I'd never realised how soft the 28D was at the edges.

    I've only tried one on a P40+ and never noticed this but on the full frame its pretty poor for such and expensive lens. Don't remember the Hasselblad 28 I tested being as soft as this.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    There is corner sharpness which helps but yes count on a 30mm lens. Yes us P40+ folks are spoiled we see none of this. Certainly was on my mind going FF
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Fun with the Hartblei: the aim was to get the rim of the bowl in the foreground in focus, then try to get everything in the room at about that height in focus too, with everything else OOF, using nothing but the viewfinder and then focus check and zoom as I did the Scheimpflug manoeuvre...

    It didn't take more than four shots to nail it! When you zoom in, the wedge of focus is very close to exactly where I wanted it.

    The file is corrected in the lens panel and then there's keystone, bit of straightening and a crop. Still over 65mp!

    I'm having fun!




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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Exactly what i said before just use it like a Polaroid until you get what you want maybe 4 shots and you got it. Now in all honesty and my view is this, live view would not buy me much if you work like this in mind and honestly by the time you did the four shots would it truly be slower working than live view. My bet not at all.

    Good job Tim and as you can see how nice that UI really is in person. The key for me is the usability and taking out guess work and in return confirmation of what you did and faster working. On a paying gig this is a monster to the shooter. Reason I bought it was I know I nailed it before packing up. Too me that is priceless, well almost. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post

    General speed and consistency and UI are great BUT on a lens like the Hartblei with MF and manual aperture, using MUP leads to failed fires about half the time, for no apparent reason, and you have to turn the camera on and off (sometimes twice) before it will unlock the mirror for another try. I am almost certainly doing something wrong but I don't know what.
    Tim,

    I also suffer from the MUP failed fires...... two different bodies so there is definitively a communication failure with the IQ180 and the DF.

    Victor

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Tim. Congratulations. I will go through this whole thread when I get back home but so far it seems like you are as we say in the US "a happy camper".

  37. #37
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    You LCC shots with the 35xl are consistent with what Im seeing. In terms of overcorrecting falloff i use the slider in C1 to back off of falloff correction.

    I've done about 50 images with the xl on a loaner IQ 180. Based on my experience and the mtf curves there is little or no scope for shifts with a 40x54 back. The lcc corrections work very well for me. You ned one for every setup because different ambient light seems to produce different lccs.

    Its an overstatement to say that the inability to shift renders this lens useless. I like it unshifted in my Alpa TC very well.

    Based on mtf curves the R 32 doesnt seem to offer much more scope for shift.

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    I've only tried one on a P40+ and never noticed this but on the full frame its pretty poor for such and expensive lens. Don't remember the Hasselblad 28 I tested being as soft as this.
    Yeah the extreme edges on the FF sensors get pretty wonky. It's really mostly those last few mm. Did you test the Hassy 28 on the H4D-60 or one of the 1.1 crop sensors?

    Would also need to check if you had corner sharpening on (Phase) or DAC corrections on (Hassy) to make sure you're comparing the best (or uncorrected - either way) version of each.

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  39. #39
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    You LCC shots with the 35xl are consistent with what Im seeing. In terms of overcorrecting falloff i use the slider in C1 to back off of falloff correction.

    I've done about 50 images with the xl on a loaner IQ 180. Based on my experience and the mtf curves there is little or no scope for shifts with a 40x54 back. The lcc corrections work very well for me. You ned one for every setup because different ambient light seems to produce different lccs.

    Its an overstatement to say that the inability to shift renders this lens useless. I like it unshifted in my Alpa TC very well.

    Based on mtf curves the R 32 doesnt seem to offer much more scope for shift.

    I agree Woody: I will be saving shifts for B&W work only though I think there might be a little bit of room for rise in the setup, though I have yet to get near a tall enough building to try it out! Actually the Hatblei is quite good for rise if you rotate it away from its weaker side - or at least it was on the p65+. The real question for me is, now I can't really do shifts on the tech cam, what will I do about it.

    Hmmm...

  40. #40
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    I agree Woody: I will be saving shifts for B&W work only though I think there might be a little bit of room for rise in the setup, though I have yet to get near a tall enough building to try it out! Actually the Hatblei is quite good for rise if you rotate it away from its weaker side - or at least it was on the p65+. The real question for me is, now I can't really do shifts on the tech cam, what will I do about it.

    Hmmm...
    The 47 xl permits 15 - 17 mm. The 72 is about the same. I'll post samples next week when I get back from Italy.

    Btw the resolution fall off with the 35 xl is a factor before you run into the zone of blue death.

  41. #41
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post

    Btw, do you think that the central magenta cast is related to the subject? It seems to be a close match to the white vehicles/foliage in the middle ground of your image.
    I thought of that as well, and may test it a little more today. If an LCC takes on a cast because of subject matter then neutralizes that cast, wouldn't the concept be flawed? After all, all it is supposed to do is eliminate the faults of the sensor/lens combination. If this were the case the only good way to do LCC's would be shooting on completely neutral backgrounds so the only color cast and falloff caused by the sensor and not subject matter is removed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Wayne, what WB setting did you apply to your image and LCC prior to rendering the LCC? And did you by any chance adjust WB for the image and not the LCC before you applied it? Finally, was the LCC frame shot immediately after the image under similar lighting conditions?
    Yes, shot seconds after the first image. White balance was default. Do most force the back to a set WB when using a TC? Of course, the problem seems extreme no matter what, in fact it seems my image circle isn't large enough.

    I shot this with and without the center filter, and end result is very similar either way.

    Going to do some more testing today with the 35 as well as the 47. My results certainly seem much worse than I'm seeing from Tashley's images so maybe I'm still missing something in the process.
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  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Wayne I only use daylight on the back or tungsten. AWB can be thrown all over the place so I never use it.
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    The "Analyze Technical Wide" right now can throw off the global white balance, requiring you to hand-correct the image back to neutral. It's something I expect they'll improve in the next version. I'd file this under very annoying but ultimately not a major issue.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Wayne I only use daylight on the back or tungsten. AWB can be thrown all over the place so I never use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    The "Analyze Technical Wide" right now can throw off the global white balance, requiring you to hand-correct the image back to neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    White balance was default. Do most force the back to a set WB when using a TC?
    As Guy indicated, AWB on the back throws WB all over the place, so if you then use "As Shot" when you convert in C1 your LCC will be unreliable. I use "Daylight" on the back, then the first thing I do in C1 is highlight the entire session of images and apply my base "Style" which includes WB, Sat, Sharpening and NR defaults. THEN I go and do LCCs and apply them to the relevant images, THEN I start editing that corrected file, including any WB tweaks. Note that it is crucial that your LCC frame and take frame both have identical WB, so if on my final the WB tweak is significant, I will sometimes delete the existing LCC, rerun the LCC frame with the new WB and reapply it, s per Doug's comment. That second application may be a little over the top, but it's really the only way to ensure accurate LCCs and then color across the frame...

    Hope that makes sense.
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Makes sense, but still doesn't explain my issues entirely. Worked with it some more today, making sure of WB issues etc. The 35xl still has some slight magenta cast at edges and is lighter at edges after carefully following everyone's recommendations. The LCC file still shows very strange discoloration in the middle of the image, and this also shows up to a lesser degree when shooting the the 47xl. The 47xl does seem to correct out to an acceptable file, still maybe a little light at the edges. The Rodenstock 70 also shows some magenta discoloration in a similar region although larger and softer and not as obvious. This is the part that isn't making sense ... the color cast and falloff should be somewhat uniform and move from the center to the edge. I'm going to shoot some LCC's by shining a light directly on the the white plate to see if I still get the odd color casts in the middle. I think I'll also rotate the back to see how the odd color moves in relation ... am I correct in that the IQ180 is actually several "stitched" sensors acting as one?
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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Wayne I'm not sure if this was raised before but what sort of diffuser filter do you use? It needs to be quite thick and sit flush to the lens to prevent any internal reflections that may lead to uneven corrections and difference in luminosity across the frame

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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Having colour casts with the 70HR doesn't sound right IMO and possibly could point to your back having the issue, not the lens.

  48. #48
    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Wayne I'm not sure if this was raised before but what sort of diffuser filter do you use? It needs to be quite thick and sit flush to the lens to prevent any internal reflections that may lead to uneven corrections and difference in luminosity across the frame

    my ¢2

    Yair
    I believe the one I have is from Phase. It is very thick, one side glossy one side matt. I've tried shooting it both ways, (no instructions on which side should face the lens that I could find) and it doesn't seem to make much difference.

    I'm going to run tests tomorrow with the plate lit with direct light, and rotate the lens and back to see if the middle color casts are affected.
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    As Guy indicated, AWB on the back throws WB all over the place, so if you then use "As Shot" when you convert in C1 your LCC will be unreliable. I use "Daylight" on the back, then the first thing I do in C1 is highlight the entire session of images and apply my base "Style" which includes WB, Sat, Sharpening and NR defaults. THEN I go and do LCCs and apply them to the relevant images, THEN I start editing that corrected file, including any WB tweaks. Note that it is crucial that your LCC frame and take frame both have identical WB, so if on my final the WB tweak is significant, I will sometimes delete the existing LCC, rerun the LCC frame with the new WB and reapply it, s per Doug's comment. That second application may be a little over the top, but it's really the only way to ensure accurate LCCs and then color across the frame...

    Hope that makes sense.
    Nice clear explanation Jack. I will try it this way.

  50. #50
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Back for the Future? IQ180 arrives...

    With Mamiya extension tubes on Phase 80mm at F10 ISO35 and studio lights (a softbox and a Mola dish). Shot tethered, which worked well but not flawlessly. Full sized file available for download at the link provided.



    http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p512009...80ca#h160bc217

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