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Thread: Hasselblad has been sold

  1. #101
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Sheesh a couple of years ago a 30-40 megapixel camera was the top end - funny reading how professional photographers need the latest and greatest elephant gun to shoot rabbits and pigeons with !!!


    Agreed.

    The reality is most professional photographers realised quite some time ago that they didn't need that latest and greatest elephant gun.

  2. #102
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Exactly. I think the Mamiya / Leaf / Phase branding is confusing and dilutes the brand. For Hassy, their brand is so strong it would be a mistake to dilute it and I am sure they will not do so. As you say, Marc, they have a single MF camera system - the H4D - but a wide range of sensor choices depending on use. Perhaps, taking up Guy's point, Hassy could offer the abiity to change backs within the H4D range.

    There are various ways of diversifying. Maybe a MF rangefinder, like the Mamiya 7, but digital of course? A stripped down H4D without true focus and no removavble back for half to two thirds the price? There are plenty of options availablle, like Porche bringing out the Boxter, or Mecedes doing city runaround type cars. I'm excited by the possibiites that additional funding will offer Hassy.

    Quentin

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Actually, there are three 50 meg H backs to select from ... H4D/50, H4D/50MS and the H4D/200MS (which is a different 50MS module) ... each one a completely different price point. Keeping in mind, not everyone shoots landscapes, and the MS cameras are pretty well known in commercial circles.

    Currently, Hasselblad offers the H4D system in 31, 40, 50, 50/MS, 60, and 200MS, and the CFV in 39 and 50 meg versions.

    The red Hasselblad isn't a version of anything nor is the stainless steel model ... those are just different cosmetic finishes, something Hasselblad has done for decades, so nothing new there (I once had a fun yellow 501CM) However, I think it is a huge waste of time and effort doing stuff like that ,,, more importantly it erodes the Brand's core positioning as a serious photographic tool ... something that also irritates me about Leica.

    As a user, I'd rather see them stick with their single Brand name convention and look to dual shutter camera that uses the entire system of existing lenses we users already have ... either as leaf shutter or focal plane shutter. That seems to be a no-brainer move which I've been harping about forever.

    AND, BTW ... allow current users to send their current back in to be fitted and calibrated to the new body without having to buy an entire new camera & DB. To me, that is where Phase kills Hasselblad ... If Hassey came out with a H5D and I wanted the camera why should I have to lose my shirt just to get the new camera? My current 60 back is all I need or want to pay for right now, but if I could use it on a dual shutter camera I'd like that option.

    IMO, if they could manage to make a digital XPan .... they wouldn't be able to make enough of them.

    -Marc
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Sheesh a couple of years ago a 30-40 megapixel camera was the top end - funny reading how professional photographers need the latest and greatest elephant gun to shoot rabbits and pigeons with !!!
    Actually Peter, that is a bit of anomaly fostered by this and a few other highly visible forums that tend to specialize in the types of photography that benefit from the top end MFD choices.

    Most professional still photographers have no-where near this kind of gear box ... or tend to rent it when the rare occasion arises. Even if the do have it, it is rarely the latest greatest. On almost every major advertising shoot I ever supervised, I had better gear than the pro.

    Where professional wedding work was once dominated by MF it is now very, very rare to see any MF or MFD being used. That alone contributed to the demise of a number of MF brands. I'd say the most used wedding camera is now a Canon 5D or Nikon D700 ... even by the top shooters that make huge amounts of money and could afford anything they wanted.

    Overwhelmingly, the shrinking publication business including catalog work has been swiftly migrating to on-line communications and is now being done with 35mm DSLRs.

    While some automotive work is still done with MFD, it is no-where near what it once was ... a lot of the work is now done using CGI.

    The list could go on and on, but suffice it to say that the MFD market is sustained by advanced enthusiasts more than "professional" photographers. As such, it is their prerogative to shoot a grass-hopper with a Howitzer ... if no other reason than it is satisfying and fun ... not to mention there are some very talented non-professionals using these cameras.

    In reality, a "professional" level kit is a marketing ploy to excite and assure the advanced enthusiasts they are getting the highest level of gear available at the time. That is what drives the inclusion of certain features. Like Guy has mentioned in other posts, weather proofing cost $10 for a cover and is no reason to drop $30K on a new model MFD that now has it. His is more the professional perspective, even if he is more of a gear hound than most pros.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    You didn't mention lenses and accessories, which are worth more than the camera bodies. Besides that, the price has no bearing whatsoever on profitability. If Hasselblad sells their cameras at a profit, they should be fine. Finally, I would not advocate that Hasselblad stops making backs. Far from it - they should open their platform and start producing such good digital backs that people choose them voluntarily and not because a closed platform forces them to.
    Or perhaps, people already DO voluntarily select Hasselblad because of the backs, and get the fully integrated H4 camera as a bonus

    I bought into a package not a component ... but the performance of the back had to cut it or I wouldn't have bought into the package.

    So, I would advocate that Phase One should start producing such good cameras that all this open platform whining can cease. Hopefully, the upcoming camera will do that.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I don't believe there is a sound business strategy in the very small, elite niche market that is MFD. I'd worry about any manufacturer that believed there was.
    I also believe that to be true. In essence these MFD companies are sending competitive memos up and down the same street to one another, and the effect is miniscule.

    It is even true for larger businesses ... locally I was involved in the car marketing business and watched as Ford and GM focused on beating the crap out of each other ... then Japan Inc. tore through their market share like a Tasmanian Devil.

    The competition is not one another, or navel gazing issues like open platforms and the like. It will come from outside, and the real competition has already landed on the beach.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Exactly. I think the Mamiya / Leaf / Phase branding is confusing and dilutes the brand. For Hassy, their brand is so strong it would be a mistake to dilute it and I am sure they will not do so. As you say, Marc, they have a single MF camera system - the H4D - but a wide range of sensor choices depending on use. Perhaps, taking up Guy's point, Hassy could offer the abiity to change backs within the H4D range.

    There are various ways of diversifying. Maybe a MF rangefinder, like the Mamiya 7, but digital of course? A stripped down H4D without true focus and no removavble back for half to two thirds the price? There are plenty of options availablle, like Porche bringing out the Boxter, or Mecedes doing city runaround type cars. I'm excited by the possibiites that additional funding will offer Hassy.

    Quentin
    Those are good ideas Quentin ... maybe we should offer our services a consultants

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    btw. the hardware (at least the sensors) are the same (except the 80MP) so it's up to the user how to decide... me as a hasselblad guy is thinking about switching to less solid build mamiya/phase only because i droped film MF entirely and now serching for a good replacement... since i shhot lots of documentary/contemporary portrait stuff the 55mm schneider lens is almost perfect for me + the mam/phase camera does support shorter exp. which helps out when sum comes out...

    for now i'm happy with my h3dII-50 but honestly thinking about switching only because of 55mm and up to 1/4000 sec :/

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by plainwhiteshirt View Post
    btw. the hardware (at least the sensors) are the same (except the 80MP) so it's up to the user how to decide... me as a hasselblad guy is thinking about switching to less solid build mamiya/phase only because i droped film MF entirely and now serching for a good replacement... since i shhot lots of documentary/contemporary portrait stuff the 55mm schneider lens is almost perfect for me + the mam/phase camera does support shorter exp. which helps out when sum comes out...

    for now i'm happy with my h3dII-50 but honestly thinking about switching only because of 55mm and up to 1/4000 sec :/
    That is not correct. Currently the Hasslblad 31, 40 and 50 backs use Kodak sensors, and the H4D/60 is a Dalsa sensor. The Phase P40+, 60+ and IQs all use Dalsa sensors.

    I do agree that Hasselblad should produce the next H as a dual shutter camera so all of our HC and HCD lenses could be used either way depending on need. BTW the new HC50 lenses is killer from what the reports I've read.

    -Marc

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Let's point out something here. The Phase DF can use improvement and/or replacement. So could Hassy for that matter. But let's be real clear here people are buying into the Phase system in droves. The IQ series sales have far exceeded any sales expectations and they are still trying to catch up on the orders by a large margin these have outsold any back in record numbers in this short of time. Now these are not just upgrades but new buyers as well. Bottom line sure there is whining about the DF but it's a vast improvement over the AFD versions that put nicely sucked. U shoot the DF daily and it works and works well. Sure there are nit picks but there is also a lot of happy campers. No one can touch the IQ in many ways and the orders show it. It can't be that bad and it is our weakest point in the system. To me it is meaningless as I have never missed a shot because of it. And I continue to still buy into the system. Simply case of the real world faces Internet fora whining.
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    iPhone spelling sorry

    At resort and sun is coming up let me grab my LX5. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  11. #111
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Let's point out something here. The Phase DF can use improvement and/or replacement. So could Hassy for that matter. But let's be real clear here people are buying into the Phase system in droves. The IQ series sales have far exceeded any sales expectations and they are still trying to catch up on the orders by a large margin these have outsold any back in record numbers in this short of time. Now these are not just upgrades but new buyers as well. Bottom line sure there is whining about the DF but it's a vast improvement over the AFD versions that put nicely sucked. U shoot the DF daily and it works and works well. Sure there are nit picks but there is also a lot of happy campers. No one can touch the IQ in many ways and the orders show it. It can't be that bad and it is our weakest point in the system. To me it is meaningless as I have never missed a shot because of it. And I continue to still buy into the system. Simply case of the real world faces Internet fora whining.
    Guy, you are the forum owner, and respect for providing all here with the opportunity to enter into these discussions, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that all criticism of the AFD is merely Internet fora whining.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    No I don't at all. I have my nit picks no question and want a replacement for sure. No question about it. Point is people are buying regardless of what is said and let's face it Keith a lot of people and as a forum owner I know this well they line to whine or worse stick up for there brand by knocking down others. We all can see that no secret there. I have said it all along I will be first in line to get the replacement and I'm already saving money for it. But it far exceeds the AFD no question. It has a long way to go but it's only one part of a system and the other parts are excellent and what really counts is the end of the food chain, the image. Body has little to do with that. It will always come down to glass, sensor and software. So the body itself is always the weakest link in that chain. Also happens to be the weakest in the Phase System itself. If anything I'm glad it's here instead of the IQ stage. But no question every Phase shooter would like a replacement . I have always said this. Point being people are buying in records amounts too. That does say something.
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    There is plenty that can stand improvement on the df.
    AF is one main, precision definition of the AF point with a smaller area of sensitivity. It is very hard to focus on an eye without actually focusing on the tip of the nose. More selectable AF points would be WONDERFUL too, perhaps a total of 5-7.

    Improvement in AF overall. speed and positiveness in typical to low light studio conditions.

    Over-all build quality; smoothness and operation of controls.

    Speed of AF motor, or lenses with integral motors (this is not likely). One problem with the current motor to lens coupling is that backlash makes AF hunting almost inevitable.

    Uni-battery back and camera.

    Of course dust and weather sealing would be nice but not as key as the rest

  14. #114
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    I am not at risk of buying a Mamiya/Phase (too poor), but if the next model could take a waist-level finder with a good loupe, it would make shooting close to the ground much easier.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Let's point out something here. The Phase DF can use improvement and/or replacement. So could Hassy for that matter. But let's be real clear here people are buying into the Phase system in droves. The IQ series sales have far exceeded any sales expectations and they are still trying to catch up on the orders by a large margin these have outsold any back in record numbers in this short of time. Now these are not just upgrades but new buyers as well. Bottom line sure there is whining about the DF but it's a vast improvement over the AFD versions that put nicely sucked. U shoot the DF daily and it works and works well. Sure there are nit picks but there is also a lot of happy campers. No one can touch the IQ in many ways and the orders show it. It can't be that bad and it is our weakest point in the system. To me it is meaningless as I have never missed a shot because of it. And I continue to still buy into the system. Simply case of the real world faces Internet fora whining.
    Same thoughts here for my Hassey system Guy ... I ask it to do the job and it does. Period. IQs definitely have some cool stuff and I admire the innovation, but mostly it is stuff that is less relevant to what and how I use MFD.

    I've been burned badly twice with MF and nether time was it Hasselbald doing the burning. 1st was Kyocere's sudden exit from the business leaving me with a dead-end Contax system with no hope of a better camera or more lenses, and the second was by Leaf when the AFi was offered and I couldn't use their own Aptus 75s on it to get away from the horrible Mamiya AFD-II camera I was stuck using. Huge bath on that one.

    It is quite obvious that Hasselblad has been slow to market in the past year or so ... but now I think we know why. Let's see what happens now.

    Frankly, the only thing in the marketplace that has me drooling is the Hasselbald H4D/200MS which offers IQ like nothing else on the market ... which I need like another hole in my bank account.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    What I'm concerned about Marc for Hassy is how long will the R&D take to put product to market. Awesome they got a investor no question but question is are they behind and if so how long to refreshed. We simply have to hope they been working on R&D all along in closed door scenario. If not than how long to infuse and refresh. Hopefully not long. I think this is the biggest question Hassy owners have to look at. I think its the most important one as a user what's next and how long. I worked in the corporate world for 16 years with mergers and buy outs and this can be steal problem as money dwindles the R&D seems to as well until fresh infusion of cash comes online. This is where I hope Hassy can overcome quickly.
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    folks... we need to be honest.
    phase (espcially with teir ew IQ stuff) can be compared to leica... nice to have
    60-70% of the pro market (especialy fashion/portrait) is covered by hasselblad (i'm aware that there are h-systems + phase backs).
    anyway... both systems do have advantages/disadvantages.

    in my case, for instance, i did prefer the AF of the mam/phase body... it's just more accurate + faster. all in all the mam/pahse bodies are build less solid and the handlig is shitty compared to the h-series.

    rearding kodak/dalsa... well, i compared the 50kodak vs. the p65+ a year ago and had the impression that kodak did better. since i've already been with hasselblad (had a h2 before) my decision was to go with hasselblad...

    i've always been satisfied with my h3dII-50 for fashion/portrait but now since i want to replace my mam7II system i need each f-stop i can get... thats why i'm so curious about the 55 schneider lens. my HC50 is just a tiny bit too wide (used to shoot with 65mm on my mam7II) + it disorts way too much... as for now i use the 50-110 zoom at 55-60mm which is okay though sorta bulky. again... a dual-shutter system would makes a camera much more flexible with available light... especially when shoting outside 1/800 sometimes is not enough.

    regarding software: i have to admit, that i prefer phocus due to interface, handling & functions... what makes me pissed again & again is the slowness and instability
    c1 bacame too mainstream, in my opinion.

    as you see, there will always be pros/cons.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What I'm concerned about Marc for Hassy is how long will the R&D take to put product to market. Awesome they got a investor no question but question is are they behind and if so how long to refreshed. We simply have to hope they been working on R&D all along in closed door scenario. If not than how long to infuse and refresh. Hopefully not long. I think this is the biggest question Hassy owners have to look at. I think its the most important one as a user what's next and how long. I worked in the corporate world for 16 years with mergers and buy outs and this can be steal problem as money dwindles the R&D seems to as well until fresh infusion of cash comes online. This is where I hope Hassy can overcome quickly.
    I actually am not so concerned about the difficulty to handle a 80MP chip from Dalsa when you already know how to handle the 60MP chip. I think it has less to do with R&D capability rather than resources. And resources may have been tight due to less amount of R&D funding. Now with more money they should come up to speed pretty fast.

    But I also need to disagree with some comments here that some IQ features are not so much needed. I think it would bode very well for Hassi when they could come up with a back like the IQ180 plus much better touch screen (OLED?) and getting rid of that ventilator which unnecessarily eats up lot of battery power.

    Lets hope the can make it!

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What I'm concerned about Marc for Hassy is how long will the R&D take to put product to market. Awesome they got a investor no question but question is are they behind and if so how long to refreshed. We simply have to hope they been working on R&D all along in closed door scenario. If not than how long to infuse and refresh. Hopefully not long. I think this is the biggest question Hassy owners have to look at. I think its the most important one as a user what's next and how long. I worked in the corporate world for 16 years with mergers and buy outs and this can be steal problem as money dwindles the R&D seems to as well until fresh infusion of cash comes online. This is where I hope Hassy can overcome quickly.
    "Are they behind" is a relative set of words Guy. Phase has the better LCD system now, no question ... before the IQ Hassey's was better. Leap frog.

    IMO Phase is way behind on the camera and should have addressed that years ago. For certain applications Phase has the big gun with the IQ180, now Hasselblad has the biggest gun of them all ... for certain applications. Leap Frog.

    To be specific, in studio I exclusively use tethered capture and have little use for the LCD. I'm often shooting to precisely match a layout space that's placed in Phocus which is a very common studio scenario ... I have a job in studio right now like that where I have to exactly match an angle of an existing image.

    If shooting faster paced stuff, I look at the LCD only for composition and quick check the histogram on the H grip for exposure ... for what I shoot, there isn't much time for anything else no matter how cool it may be. That said, I would like the H4D LCD to be higher res, no question about that.

    Even though the company must have been cramped by a possible sale for some time, they managed to get TF out the door, engineer a 200 meg MS camera (quite a feat actually), put the 31 meg sensor in an entry level H4D, and offer a 50 meg CFV for V users.

    Do not presume that Hassey users are dissatisfied with their choice Guy ... Get Dpi is a sliver of the MFD user base and has an orientation that favors Phase offerings because of the type of work the folks tend to create. I've seen nothing posted here or elsewhere that shows any clear superiority of end result from any Brand. It all depends on who's using it.

    If Hasselblad continues with their history of innovations, like just ignoring conventional AF and bye-passing everything with an entirely new way embodied in the TF system, then maybe they can do the same with other aspects of MFD features. Time will tell.

    What Hasselbald users ARE frustrated with is the rather abrupt change in the company's previous track record of announcing something and delivering it immediately. The H4D/60 was a delivery debacle like no other in history and it still isn't over yet ... the double resolution LCD firmware STILL isn't here, nor is the new battery solution for tech camera work.

    Screw what's next, give me what I paid for first!

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Screw what's next, give me what I paid for first!
    And that was precisely my point earlier...
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    But let's be real clear here people are buying into the Phase system in droves.
    How many cubits to a drove?

    Kind regards,
    Derek

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    How's this one dealer over 80 pre-orders and counting . That's just one . Simply put the UI is the most useful I have ever seen to a shooter in any syst. Until you try it and put it to use you simple can't go back to the P+. but don't take my word for it, try it and see.

    Now if Hassy was selling like that do you really think it would have been up for sale for 18 months. Honestly not sure about these investors but I would have rather seen Leica buy it. Much more vested interest in photography. Shame they did not.
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Okay, Phase One has an 80 sensor and a good screen. But they have a crappy camera and a limited line of lenses and no multi-shot capability (that I know of). They have no T/S lens capability and no shutter in their lenses. You can put it on a tech camera, but that is a niche in the already niche market that is MFD. I am quite sure it is a good back, but where do you all get it that Hasselblad is behind in R and D, after looking at Marc’s list of recent innovations Hasselblad has introduced.

    So where did Hasselblad go wrong? Was it because they closed the H system to Phase? I guess you all think it is just fine to produce a camera for someone else to exploit, especially in the end of the camera that is extremely expensive. They just got tired of being chumps for Phase. How would you like it if you owned a business and someone stood in the lobby selling their product after you were successful in getting them in the door?

    My guess is that Hasselblad is just terrible at marketing and communications. Phase is terrific at generating tremendous buzz around their products, and quite honestly, they do a great job at making them sexy. A lot of the bias against Hasselblad in some forums is that most look at their friends and see Phase backs. Maybe Hasselblad users are happy with their camera and just go about earning a living without checking blogs and forums every hour or so. Maybe Hasselblad has a larger share of the market than anyone knows.

    Hasselblad does a pretty good job of frustrating me at times, but I have no illusion that they are close to perfect. But the negative attitudes shown by non-Hassy users are simply stunning. A PC user once took me to task because I had a Mac. He just excoriated me to no end. When I asked him if he had ever used a Mac he sheepishly told me he had not ever touched one. I just couldn’t believe it. Often I think about that when I hear such negativity coming from non-Hassy users.

    Many, many stunning and technically perfect images using Phase systems grace this forum so it has to be a good system. You guys humble me as I look at the stunning images shown in the gallery of this forum. So would all you Phase users enjoy your systems, take many stunning pictures, see beautiful angles I never see, and simply encourage positive change in the MFD industry by all parties. I love my Hasselblad system!

    Greg
    Last edited by BANKER1; 3rd July 2011 at 12:11. Reason: Adding positive comment.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    How's this one dealer over 80 pre-orders and counting . That's just one . Simply put the UI is the most useful I have ever seen to a shooter in any syst. Until you try it and put it to use you simple can't go back to the P+. but don't take my word for it, try it and see.

    Now if Hassy was selling like that do you really think it would have been up for sale for 18 months. Honestly not sure about these investors but I would have rather seen Leica buy it. Much more vested interest in photography. Shame they did not.
    Hi Guy,

    That's sounds very good! I did look at the posts here on the user interface on the IQ and I was very impressed. I carry a lot of backups to my gear (because of the remote places that I go), including an emergency film H1, and it would be fantastic to mount an IQ to it (I understand it's also sold in an H1 mount, right?). Currently, it's all about $$$ for me. I also always liked the Leaf LCD/touch screen and considered it before switching out of film.

    I've been following the posts here and I agree with a lot of what has been said all around, so I don't have much to add. Keith hit the mark on sensor size for me (I'm @ 39mp and it's more than enough for me) and Marc's point about leap-frogging is so very true. To answer your question directly, I don't know why Hasselblad takes so long to release promised features, I just don't know. Some good posts here, though.

    OK, I have to get another bike ride in today, so I'll have to read the new posts later.

    Kind regards,
    Derek

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    i actually think that over all hassy is way way more complete in the medium format arena. best lenses, body,software and best "good" backs. nobody has such a package now!!

    the new owners saw potential to make money, in this situation there is always some house cleaning and then heads down and make it a better company and that's with showing great numbers and better bottom line. all of this means better products for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What I'm concerned about Marc for Hassy is how long will the R&D take to put product to market. Awesome they got a investor no question but question is are they behind and if so how long to refreshed. We simply have to hope they been working on R&D all along in closed door scenario. If not than how long to infuse and refresh. Hopefully not long. I think this is the biggest question Hassy owners have to look at. I think its the most important one as a user what's next and how long. I worked in the corporate world for 16 years with mergers and buy outs and this can be steal problem as money dwindles the R&D seems to as well until fresh infusion of cash comes online. This is where I hope Hassy can overcome quickly.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Okay, Phase One has an 80 sensor and a good screen. But they have a crappy camera and a limited line of lenses and no multi-shot capability (that I know of). They have no T/S lens capability and no shutter in their lenses. You can put it on a tech camera, but that is a niche in the already niche market that is MFD. I am quite sure it is a good back, but where do you all get it that Hasselblad is behind in R and D, after looking at Marc’s list of recent innovations Hasselblad has introduced.

    So where did Hasselblad go wrong? Was it because they closed the H system to Phase? I guess you all think it is just fine to produce a camera for someone else to exploit, especially in the end of the camera that is extremely expensive. They just got tired of being chumps for Phase. How would you like it if you owned a business and someone stood in the lobby selling their product after you were successful in getting them in the door?

    My guess is that Hasselblad is just terrible at marketing and communications. Phase is terrific at generating tremendous buzz around their products, and quite honestly, they do a great job at making them sexy. A lot of the bias against Hasselblad in some forums is that most look at their friends and see Phase backs. Maybe Hasselblad users are happy with their camera and just go about earning a living without checking blogs and forums every hour or so. Maybe Hasselblad has a larger share of the market than anyone knows.

    Hasselblad does a pretty good job of frustrating me at times, but I have no illusion that they are close to perfect. But the negative attitudes shown by non-Hassy users are simply stunning. A PC user once took me to task because I had a Mac. He just excoriated me to no end. When I asked him if he had ever used a Mac he sheepishly told me he had not ever touched one. I just couldn’t believe it. Often I think about that when I hear such negativity coming from non-Hassy users.

    Many, many stunning and technically perfect images using Phase systems grace this forum so it has to be a good system. You guys humble me as I look at the stunning images shown in the gallery of this forum. So would all you Phase users enjoy your systems, take many stunning pictures, see beautiful angles I never see, and simply encourage positive change in the MFD industry by all parties. I love my Hasselblad system!

    Greg
    I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
    How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
    -bob

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Hey firm beloved in 40mpx is perfect. Had one lived it but wanted FF so the mpx went up but I really don't need the mpx . Just came with the package
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    I think the very nature of the buyer as a private equity firm reflects well on Hasselblad's future prospects. The people who run these firms are not guided by romantic memories of Hasselblad's glory days. They are rigorous, disciplined investors who only invest if they see a reasonably clear path to growing Hasselblad's business and profits significantly over the next 5-6 years.
    Does Hasselblad have a lot of catching up to do relative to Phase's IQ series of backs? Well, if the major advancement in the IQ backs is the new LCD, and so far it seems to be, that does not strike me as requiring a lot of R&D. It's all a matter of sourcing a new, high quality LCD from a third party.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Bob,

    Carefully reading your responses to all the threads in which you participate gives me the impression that you are smart and well spoken. If you look at my discussion in context you will see that I am simply giving some examples of Hasselblad innovation. Asking how many multi-shots have been sold implies that they sell very few so what's the deal. I just think Hasselblad never gets their due in any of the forum discussions. They always seem to be kicked around a lot. For me, that gets old pretty quickly and makes me wonder just why people feel compelled to do so. Honestly, I don't care very much since I feel very satisfied with my decision to buy Hasselblad. Could that be it? Could others feel a little insecure about their decision so they trash the competition? Hmmm.

    Greg

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Re Multishot ( perhaps)

    The multi-shot market is a specialist market. For absolute high end colour accuracy and repro purposes as well as for archival integrity, many large art galleries, museums and other such collectors of fine art, paintings, lithographs, icons, jewelry etc etc use such devices. These institutions require in house departments capable of delivering these services if for no other reason than teh fact that it is imperative that many works are subject to minimal risk of handling - transporting these works is a major risk.

    Product photographers are aslo users of such capabilities - as Marc has indicated for example on many occassions.

    This market is not well known or understood by hobby shooters who in the main are represented by landscape photographers in this forum.

    A multi shot back is a poor back for typical photogrpahic uses - typically you are talking tethered shooting of inanimate objects. The major technical barrier to using a multi shot back is absolute stability - you would be amazed at how resolving error can be translated from passing traffick vibration translated through flooring.

    A few of the specialist rooms I have seen in National Galleries are custom designed to isolate extraneous sources of vibration as much as possible. For typical photographic purpose what is appropriate becomes inappropriate - things like tripod and other mounting devices are sources of vibration - even large weighted FOBO types are just the beginning of high end requirements.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
    How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
    -bob
    Bob, please take a moment to read the whole Ventizz pronouncement from Dr. Vorndran, not just the part you mentioned.

    "... with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as THE first class producer of medium format systems. Then he goes on to say "Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers."

    RE: Multi-Shot ... probably more are out there than you suspect ... including at the Tate Gallery. I've hired many studios with MS cameras. There are a number of folks on the forum that use them ... they just don't blab about it much. Fact is Hasselbald has a 200 meg 6 shot camera "image leader" that can also be used in 4 shot mode or single shot, and Phase doesn't. BTW, the full H4D/200MS kit retail price is the same as the IQ180 back.

    In fact there are a whole bunch of specialty things Hasselblad does that never gets discussed much here ... like a dedicated Aerial group, with a modified camera model and specially modified lenses and different firmware ... or their H4D/NIR camera sans an IR filter that's replaced with a special multicoated clear class filter ... available in the 40, 50, (or 50MS version for museums and galleries to examine paintings in the near-IR spectrum). And least we forget, Hasselblad still makes the best, and fastest desk-top scanner available.

    By looking at their track record, the categories they do business in, and how they operate, one would assume these Ventizz folks are smart cookies and have studied all the financial and marketing data for MFD. So, it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks or speculates, what matters is that they are informed, and think that Hasselblad is "THE first class producer of medium format systems" ... and have put their money behind that belief.

    -Marc

  32. #132
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Then he goes on to say "Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers."
    When I read that the first thing that I thought of was they will come out with relatively (for lack of a better term) lower end cameras with some of the features found in the Pentax 645d. I would think there's a larger market for professionals moving up to mf digital than there is in professionals moving up to ms bodies. Also, an "entry level" model would also appeal to the serious amateur market which again I would guess is larger than the ms market.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    When I read that the first thing that I thought of was they will come out with relatively (for lack of a better term) lower end cameras with some of the features found in the Pentax 645d. I would think there's a larger market for professionals moving up to mf digital than there is in professionals moving up to ms bodies. Also, an "entry level" model would also appeal to the serious amateur market which again I would guess is larger than the ms market.
    Since they already have the entry priced H4D/31, that strategy would not be a foreign idea. MS has it's own well defined market as described by Peter A, and probably wouldn't fit a new expansion strategy.

    I think the second "furthermore" statement may mean going even beyond that ... as I mentioned before, a smaller, more compact DSLR type body that takes the HC AF lenses comes to mind ... that form factor would be attractive to the serious enthusiasts if priced right ... and be a great back-up unit for some professionals.

    Who knows what ideas the Hassey elves have explored that these guys saw in the process of buying the company.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    No one outside of the specialist MFD sector has heard of PhaseOne. My wife asked me the other day whether my 645DF was a new 'Hasselblad Product Line' !
    Everyone has heard of Hasselblad, and brand has a fantastic mainstream image in my opinion. Phase simply doesn't have a mainstream image - period.

    Thus, as an investor, I would definitely want to buy Hasselblad if the price was right. The potential is enormous. Now, how much of that potential will benefit readers of this forum - I don't know. I would take the brand high-end mainstream. Lets face it, Leica's rebranding of Panasonic's P&S cameras doesn't seem to have done them any damage - but it does help fund skunk work projects or buy time until the inhouse expertise is in-place.

    There are good buyers and bad buyers. If Hasselblad have done their due-diligence well (assuming they had the luxury to do so) - and the new buyer is willing to inject sufficient capital and stick with Hasselblad for the long term - I think the potential is very exciting for the brand and sincerely wish them every success.


    M

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Since they already have the entry priced H4D/31, that strategy would not be a foreign idea. MS has it's own well defined market as described by Peter A, and probably wouldn't fit a new expansion strategy.

    I think the second "furthermore" statement may mean going even beyond that ... as I mentioned before, a smaller, more compact DSLR type body that takes the HC AF lenses comes to mind ... that form factor would be attractive to the serious enthusiasts if priced right ... and be a great back-up unit for some professionals.
    It isn't clear to me if you mean MF still with a smaller DSLR body?

    Anyway, the H4D-31 is a good start, but the strategy could be fleshed out. Adding a few lower-speced lenses (slower AF, smaller max aperture, not lower quality) could help someone get a foot in the MFD door without busting the bank. It ought to be possible to buy a low-end MFD system for not much more than a high-end DSLR, i.e. body price below $10000, lenses at about $1500-2500, as Pentax has done.
    Last edited by carstenw; 4th July 2011 at 10:35.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
    How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
    -bob
    Bob,

    Within the Museum / Reproduction industry, very large. Also as Marc states, within the Still Life sector too.

    I was at a conference sponsored by us for this sector (Art and Historical Reproduction) a couple of weeks ago. Visitors from all over the globe, happy to say most using Hasselblad MS systems.

    If you want absolute fidelity in a reproduction, then Multi Shot is your only choice.

    David

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
    It's a relatively large market however its nature is changing rapidly and many of these customers are moving from 90's technology MS and scanning backs to new 80MP single-shot solutions

    Suffice to say that many new prospects in emerging markets are looking mostly at single-shot solutions because of their simplicity, speed and low running costs

    The cameras these days are operated by people who are not trained as photographers. The camera and software are locked at certain settings; aperture, shutter speed and processing parameters and they just press the button, or the book/ cradle/ copy stand does it for them, automatically

    Many of them run their own bespoke front end for operating the camera and just use the back's SDK to drive it. In fact there are several dealers who specialise in these areas and can offer a complete solution. Lance's company is a good example.

    When they look at the costs involved in running a slow and complex MS system in terms of capture-to-final product time and shutter life (and lights if they use flash), a single shot option makes a lot more sense to them

    In many of these applications, namely the ones who utilise pneumatic/ mechanical/ robotic book cradles, MS is not a viable solution anyway since the pages, when lifted are not frozen still yet they still require a large file size.

    Moreover there are companies who develop their own "camera" platform with bespoke shutter solutions and use the back as an OEM component. Naturally these people do not visit these forums but you see them at shows like CeBIT and other machine-vision oriented events

    The present and future belong to single shot if you look at the sales figures of the 80MP backs. MS will gradually disappear as people move to the simpler, cheaper solutions

    IMO

    Yair

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    It isn't clear to me if you mean MF still with a smaller DSLR body?

    Anyway, the H4D-31 is a good start, but the strategy could be fleshes out. Adding a few lower-speced lenses (slower AF, smaller max aperture, not lower quality) could help someone get a foot in the MFD door without busting the bank. It ought to be possible to buy a low-end MFD system for not much more than a high-end DSLR, i.e. body price below $10000, lenses at about $1500-2500, as Pentax has done.
    Yes still MFD, but along the lines of the S2 but ...uh ... buyable Lots of photographers have shown interest in the S2 but the price stops them cold ... like most Leica stuff. Even though I am pretty adept at using my H4D, I'm increasingly turning to the S2P because of the form factor and ease of taking it with me.

    Perhaps Hasselblad's working association with Fuji could bear fruit? They are pretty good at making lenses for all kinds of applications and have the infrastructure to make it happen.
    I mean, how cool would a digital GF645 folding camera be? Yummy.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Bob,

    If you want absolute fidelity in a reproduction, then Multi Shot is your only choice.

    David
    David, all the best for the future. In many ways, the 50MS outperformed my IQ180 so I can just imagine what the 200MS can do.

    Perhaps the new management will phocus (heh) on your reliable and lucrative institutional customers. However, VCs tend to want growth areas. Is there a growth future for ultra high end still photography?

    If that remains the primary interest, here is what I would do to expand share:

    1 People buy what they see. Put the best display on the camera.
    2 People buy what is easy to use. Dump the Phocus code body. Contract out a ground-up rebuild and pay a proven architect to design it with interface standardization as a priority.

    Yes, these are both obvious and hard (= expensive) problems. I assume Hasselblad would have already done them if they were justified by revenue projections. Will Hasselblad improve old things with new money, or will it make new things with its great brand identity?

    The cultural basis of imaging is changing so fast and investors will want you to lead the change. I wonder if we will recognize Hasselblad products in five years.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes still MFD, but along the lines of the S2 but ...uh ... buyable Lots of photographers have shown interest in the S2 but the price stops them cold ... like most Leica stuff. Even though I am pretty adept at using my H4D, I'm increasingly turning to the S2P because of the form factor and ease of taking it with me.

    Perhaps Hasselblad's working association with Fuji could bear fruit? They are pretty good at making lenses for all kinds of applications and have the infrastructure to make it happen.
    I mean, how cool would a digital GF645 folding camera be? Yummy.

    -Marc
    While I could not care less about a GF645 or similar, there is a lot of truth in what you say about Leica etc.

    But would a Hasselblad version of the S System be successful now? Now that we already have Leica? I think this market is so very small and tight that it is tricky to find new business areas which could be successful.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    David, all the best for the future. In many ways, the 50MS outperformed my IQ180 so I can just imagine what the 200MS can do.

    Perhaps the new management will phocus (heh) on your reliable and lucrative institutional customers. However, VCs tend to want growth areas. Is there a growth future for ultra high end still photography?

    If that remains the primary interest, here is what I would do to expand share:

    1 People buy what they see. Put the best display on the camera.
    2 People buy what is easy to use. Dump the Phocus code body. Contract out a ground-up rebuild and pay a proven architect to design it with interface standardization as a priority.

    Yes, these are both obvious and hard (= expensive) problems. I assume Hasselblad would have already done them if they were justified by revenue projections. Will Hasselblad improve old things with new money, or will it make new things with its great brand identity?

    The cultural basis of imaging is changing so fast and investors will want you to lead the change. I wonder if we will recognize Hasselblad products in five years.
    I agree on a very much needed rebuild of Phocus and I also agree on much better to operate and innovative backs for the H system.

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    It's a relatively large market however its nature is changing rapidly and many of these customers are moving from 90's technology MS and scanning backs to new 80MP single-shot solutions

    Suffice to say that many new prospects in emerging markets are looking mostly at single-shot solutions because of their simplicity, speed and low running costs

    The cameras these days are operated by people who are not trained as photographers. The camera and software are locked at certain settings; aperture, shutter speed and processing parameters and they just press the button, or the book/ cradle/ copy stand does it for them, automatically

    Many of them run their own bespoke front end for operating the camera and just use the back's SDK to drive it. In fact there are several dealers who specialise in these areas and can offer a complete solution. Lance's company is a good example.

    When they look at the costs involved in running a slow and complex MS system in terms of capture-to-final product time and shutter life (and lights if they use flash), a single shot option makes a lot more sense to them

    In many of these applications, namely the ones who utilise pneumatic/ mechanical/ robotic book cradles, MS is not a viable solution anyway since the pages, when lifted are not frozen still yet they still require a large file size.

    Moreover there are companies who develop their own "camera" platform with bespoke shutter solutions and use the back as an OEM component. Naturally these people do not visit these forums but you see them at shows like CeBIT and other machine-vision oriented events

    The present and future belong to single shot if you look at the sales figures of the 80MP backs. MS will gradually disappear as people move to the simpler, cheaper solutions

    IMO

    Yair
    I guess The Tate, Van Gogh Museum (Tested Leaf Single Shot, went Hasselbald), National Gallery of Australia, National Gallery (London).. National Library in Jerusalem, to name a few, would disagree.

    To quote the curator of the National Gallery of Australia..

    "When people call me to advise them on what system to use, I tell them that hands down the Hasselblad MS system is the only camera of choice for the reproduction market".

    At the same conference an independent expert showed results from a Single shot 80MP back (manufacturer not identified) that still showed moire on a fine etched image. The comparative multi shot captures (still no identified manufacturer but you can guess) did not show this error.

    So not only my opinion, but of those in the industry.

    David

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    David, all the best for the future. In many ways, the 50MS outperformed my IQ180 so I can just imagine what the 200MS can do.

    Perhaps the new management will phocus (heh) on your reliable and lucrative institutional customers. However, VCs tend to want growth areas. Is there a growth future for ultra high end still photography?

    If that remains the primary interest, here is what I would do to expand share:

    1 People buy what they see. Put the best display on the camera.
    2 People buy what is easy to use. Dump the Phocus code body. Contract out a ground-up rebuild and pay a proven architect to design it with interface standardization as a priority.

    Yes, these are both obvious and hard (= expensive) problems. I assume Hasselblad would have already done them if they were justified by revenue projections. Will Hasselblad improve old things with new money, or will it make new things with its great brand identity?

    The cultural basis of imaging is changing so fast and investors will want you to lead the change. I wonder if we will recognize Hasselblad products in five years.
    Thanks Peter!

    I am really excited to hear of their plans. Anything else is speculation at the moment.. but still fun.

    David

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    While I could not care less about a GF645 or similar, there is a lot of truth in what you say about Leica etc.

    But would a Hasselblad version of the S System be successful now? Now that we already have Leica? I think this market is so very small and tight that it is tricky to find new business areas which could be successful.
    Well, IMO, it could be successful if it was 1/2 the price of a S2 and also had a focal plane shutter ... so the HC lenses could used AND all of the V and F lenses could be also used ... especially since Phocus already has the 3F DAC corrections for most of those V lenses.

    There is a huge installed user base with Zeiss legacy lenses ... and the only Hasselblad camera to use the F lenses has long been discontinued. A used 203FE with a CFV/39 back runs about $17.5K with no lenses, and $20.5K with the CFV/50. Plus the 203FE tops out at 1/2000th and has a sync speed of 1/90th. A new camera could up those spec's considerably.

    The S2 market is indeed relatively small, but that is primarily because it is at least $30K for the most basic two lens system. If you had a Hasselblad camera with a H mount and V adapter, I could easily see a $10K camera and basic kit with two lenses at around $14K ... Less if you bought used lenses. Trouble with the S system is the other lenses are upwards of $7K and there aren't many used ones to be had. As I said, there has been a huge amount of interest in this form factor for MFD, but the only player in town is financially way out of reach for most that would like to migrate from 35mm digital.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    It's a relatively large market however its nature is changing rapidly and many of these customers are moving from 90's technology MS and scanning backs to new 80MP single-shot solutions

    Suffice to say that many new prospects in emerging markets are looking mostly at single-shot solutions because of their simplicity, speed and low running costs

    The cameras these days are operated by people who are not trained as photographers. The camera and software are locked at certain settings; aperture, shutter speed and processing parameters and they just press the button, or the book/ cradle/ copy stand does it for them, automatically

    Many of them run their own bespoke front end for operating the camera and just use the back's SDK to drive it. In fact there are several dealers who specialise in these areas and can offer a complete solution. Lance's company is a good example.

    When they look at the costs involved in running a slow and complex MS system in terms of capture-to-final product time and shutter life (and lights if they use flash), a single shot option makes a lot more sense to them

    In many of these applications, namely the ones who utilise pneumatic/ mechanical/ robotic book cradles, MS is not a viable solution anyway since the pages, when lifted are not frozen still yet they still require a large file size.

    Moreover there are companies who develop their own "camera" platform with bespoke shutter solutions and use the back as an OEM component. Naturally these people do not visit these forums but you see them at shows like CeBIT and other machine-vision oriented events

    The present and future belong to single shot if you look at the sales figures of the 80MP backs. MS will gradually disappear as people move to the simpler, cheaper solutions

    IMO

    Yair
    I think this may be true to some extent ... there are most certainly applications that once required MS, that the bigger 80 and even 60 backs can now handle adequately. Jumping from 39 meg to 60 and 80 meg was a decent leap forward in resolution. I tested my H4D/60 against my old CF/39MS and the 60 did an adequate enough job to make the swap ... but the color from the MS was better right out of the camera. So, it was not as big a leap forward in color fidelity and rendering of minute patterns that can produce moiré because it still uses the same basic method of capture ... just more of it. Tweaked of course, but still basically the same. I'm absolutely sure a 6 shot 50 back will murder anything available in single shot made by anyone.

    The notion that MS is complex and fraught with technical difficulties is either marketing speak from companies that do not offer MS, or folks that haven't actually used it day-in and day-out. It is a no-brainer work flow, and once all is refined using single shot, you just click the MS button and it does it's thing ... in mere seconds. The pic comes up and ... WOW! As many experienced MS shooters have mentioned, working on MS shots is MUCH easier than single shot and the retouching time is cut way down per shot. I really found that to be true for a client I did work for last year. I don't do as much of that now that I'm semi-retired so it doesn't matter as much now.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I agree on a very much needed rebuild of Phocus and I also agree on much better to operate and innovative backs for the H system.
    Refine Phocus ... of course. More functionality? Yes please. Rebuild to the point that I have to learn a new software? No thanks! I love some of the features in Phocus and just the other day showed my dealer a color adjustment trick I came up with that he had never seen before.

    What I would absolutely love is a comprehensive and intuitive workflow and tool pallet like Lightroom, but with all the secret sauce of the proprietary software. Currently no one has that, or anything close to it.

    Not sure what is meant by better to operate or innovative backs. Mine works just dandy as it is ... frankly, I can't think of anything I'd want that I don't already have and already know how to use ... except, just give me the higher resolution LCD and external battery I already paid for and I'd be good for a while. But I admit that I'm not much for lots of toys on any camera I use, or paying a premium for them ... just give me a camera that works and let me get on with taking photos.

    Okay, I also admit that I'm jonesing for a 200MS but that's just a pipe dream ... one should always have a dream or two

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    I have to say I was very excited about the S2 at first and still think it's a great Camera but the price point of the "system" just killed it for me.
    Give me a Hasselblad S2 inspired body with True Focus, 30-40MPX for around $10K-$12K and I'll be all over it, I would be more than happy to leave Canon behind for this.
    I also like Phocus, it can be faster and the only thing I really want that it's missing is being able to generate variant/virtual copys that can sit along side the first "real" file.
    I guess we can hope

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I think this may be true to some extent ... there are most certainly applications that once required MS, that the bigger 80 and even 60 backs can now handle adequately. Jumping from 39 meg to 60 and 80 meg was a decent leap forward in resolution. I tested my H4D/60 against my old CF/39MS and the 60 did an adequate enough job to make the swap ... but the color from the MS was better right out of the camera. So, it was not as big a leap forward in color fidelity and rendering of minute patterns that can produce moiré because it still uses the same basic method of capture ... just more of it. Tweaked of course, but still basically the same. I'm absolutely sure a 6 shot 50 back will murder anything available in single shot made by anyone.

    The notion that MS is complex and fraught with technical difficulties is either marketing speak from companies that do not offer MS, or folks that haven't actually used it day-in and day-out. It is a no-brainer work flow, and once all is refined using single shot, you just click the MS button and it does it's thing ... in mere seconds. The pic comes up and ... WOW! As many experienced MS shooters have mentioned, working on MS shots is MUCH easier than single shot and the retouching time is cut way down per shot. I really found that to be true for a client I did work for last year. I don't do as much of that now that I'm semi-retired so it doesn't matter as much now.

    -Marc
    Marc (and David), this is not a pissing contest and perhaps we should start a separate MS Vs Single thread

    So far I have yet to see a 6 shot file that looks better than a scaled-up 5 shot one or better than a single shot 80MP file in terms of resolution and colour. Let me re-phrase that: I have yet to see a new customer that was presented with the 3 options and chose MS. The large number of MS products we get as trade-in nowadays supports my general view of this market.

    Facts are that a multi shot solution will wear your shutters 5-6 or even 8 times faster (you said "and once all is refined using single shot, you just click the MS button")

    To put some real numbers down; there are repro houses that do 3,000-3,500 separate documents/ pages each day on each camera. Assuming that your average MF shutter can last 100K clicks, you are going through 1-2 shutters every month or two. You cannot afford any downtime so you have to invest in 2 bodies or 2 lenses per station depending on your setup. It gets a little better if you use Schneider electronic shutters as they last longer but only if 1/60th is fast enough for your applications

    On a decent Mac/ PC, from shutter release to 100% render with an MS camera is ALLOT slower than with a single shot camera. If your work requires hundreds or even thousands of frames every day it all adds up to many many man hours that either you don't have or that you are not getting money for...

    Then we get to file sizes and storage, and the IT requirements that come with it. A single shot 80MP RAW file is 3 to 13 (!) times smaller than a 50MP MS RAW file. Do the math and see how much longer it takes to transfer 100 MS images to a server or to write them to tape...again this is time and money!

    So if you are managing a digitisation project and your government or the organisation that funds the project specifies a budget and a deadline for finishing the project, or if you run a repro house, which way will YOU go?

    Regarding colour accuracy. In theory there is only ONE way to capture true colour but this requires a monochrome chip and big colour filters and it is only useable for still (VERY still) objects. We've abandoned this technology (along with the Bayer based MS) years ago because we believed that in the long run single shot will replace it successfully, which it does if you go by sales figures.

    Happy independence day BTW

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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ....Okay, I also admit that I'm jonesing for a 200MS but that's just a pipe dream ... one should always have a dream or two

    -Marc
    Hell, Marc. We're all pulling for you here for a H4D200MS. We know you'll share your experiences and allow us all at GetDPI to live vicariously through you...


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    Re: Hasselblad has been sold

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    I guess The Tate, Van Gogh Museum (Tested Leaf Single Shot, went Hasselbald), National Gallery of Australia, National Gallery (London).. National Library in Jerusalem, to name a few, would disagree.
    I can easily imagine that such an investment would pay off over and over again, compared to shipping the artwork somewhere else to get it copied. The insurance on a single high-ticket item would likely pay back a significant part of the camera already.
    Carsten - Website

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