Hasselblad has been sold

[jecxz]

But let's be real clear here people are buying into the Phase system in droves.

How many cubits to a drove?

Kind regards,
Derek

 

[Guy Mancuso]

How's this one dealer over 80 pre-orders and counting . That's just one . Simply put the UI is the most useful I have ever seen to a shooter in any syst. Until you try it and put it to use you simple can't go back to the P+. but don't take my word for it, try it and see.

Now if Hassy was selling like that do you really think it would have been up for sale for 18 months. Honestly not sure about these investors but I would have rather seen Leica buy it. Much more vested interest in photography. Shame they did not.

 

[BANKER1]

Okay, Phase One has an 80 sensor and a good screen. But they have a crappy camera and a limited line of lenses and no multi-shot capability (that I know of). They have no T/S lens capability and no shutter in their lenses. You can put it on a tech camera, but that is a niche in the already niche market that is MFD. I am quite sure it is a good back, but where do you all get it that Hasselblad is behind in R and D, after looking at Marc’s list of recent innovations Hasselblad has introduced.

So where did Hasselblad go wrong? Was it because they closed the H system to Phase? I guess you all think it is just fine to produce a camera for someone else to exploit, especially in the end of the camera that is extremely expensive. They just got tired of being chumps for Phase. How would you like it if you owned a business and someone stood in the lobby selling their product after you were successful in getting them in the door?

My guess is that Hasselblad is just terrible at marketing and communications. Phase is terrific at generating tremendous buzz around their products, and quite honestly, they do a great job at making them sexy. A lot of the bias against Hasselblad in some forums is that most look at their friends and see Phase backs. Maybe Hasselblad users are happy with their camera and just go about earning a living without checking blogs and forums every hour or so. Maybe Hasselblad has a larger share of the market than anyone knows.

Hasselblad does a pretty good job of frustrating me at times, but I have no illusion that they are close to perfect. But the negative attitudes shown by non-Hassy users are simply stunning. A PC user once took me to task because I had a Mac. He just excoriated me to no end. When I asked him if he had ever used a Mac he sheepishly told me he had not ever touched one. I just couldn’t believe it. Often I think about that when I hear such negativity coming from non-Hassy users.

Many, many stunning and technically perfect images using Phase systems grace this forum so it has to be a good system. You guys humble me as I look at the stunning images shown in the gallery of this forum. So would all you Phase users enjoy your systems, take many stunning pictures, see beautiful angles I never see, and simply encourage positive change in the MFD industry by all parties. I love my Hasselblad system!

Greg

 

[jecxz]

How's this one dealer over 80 pre-orders and counting . That's just one . Simply put the UI is the most useful I have ever seen to a shooter in any syst. Until you try it and put it to use you simple can't go back to the P+. but don't take my word for it, try it and see.

Now if Hassy was selling like that do you really think it would have been up for sale for 18 months. Honestly not sure about these investors but I would have rather seen Leica buy it. Much more vested interest in photography. Shame they did not.

Hi Guy,

That's sounds very good! I did look at the posts here on the user interface on the IQ and I was very impressed. I carry a lot of backups to my gear (because of the remote places that I go), including an emergency film H1, and it would be fantastic to mount an IQ to it (I understand it's also sold in an H1 mount, right?). Currently, it's all about $$$ for me. I also always liked the Leaf LCD/touch screen and considered it before switching out of film.

I've been following the posts here and I agree with a lot of what has been said all around, so I don't have much to add. Keith hit the mark on sensor size for me (I'm @ 39mp and it's more than enough for me) and Marc's point about leap-frogging is so very true. To answer your question directly, I don't know why Hasselblad takes so long to release promised features, I just don't know. Some good posts here, though.

OK, I have to get another bike ride in today, so I'll have to read the new posts later.

Kind regards,
Derek

 

[msadat]

i actually think that over all hassy is way way more complete in the medium format arena. best lenses, body,software and best "good" backs. nobody has such a package now!!

the new owners saw potential to make money, in this situation there is always some house cleaning and then heads down and make it a better company and that's with showing great numbers and better bottom line. all of this means better products for us.

What I'm concerned about Marc for Hassy is how long will the R&D take to put product to market. Awesome they got a investor no question but question is are they behind and if so how long to refreshed. We simply have to hope they been working on R&D all along in closed door scenario. If not than how long to infuse and refresh. Hopefully not long. I think this is the biggest question Hassy owners have to look at. I think its the most important one as a user what's next and how long. I worked in the corporate world for 16 years with mergers and buy outs and this can be steal problem as money dwindles the R&D seems to as well until fresh infusion of cash comes online. This is where I hope Hassy can overcome quickly.

 

[Bob]

Okay, Phase One has an 80 sensor and a good screen. But they have a crappy camera and a limited line of lenses and no multi-shot capability (that I know of). They have no T/S lens capability and no shutter in their lenses. You can put it on a tech camera, but that is a niche in the already niche market that is MFD. I am quite sure it is a good back, but where do you all get it that Hasselblad is behind in R and D, after looking at Marc’s list of recent innovations Hasselblad has introduced.

So where did Hasselblad go wrong? Was it because they closed the H system to Phase? I guess you all think it is just fine to produce a camera for someone else to exploit, especially in the end of the camera that is extremely expensive. They just got tired of being chumps for Phase. How would you like it if you owned a business and someone stood in the lobby selling their product after you were successful in getting them in the door?

My guess is that Hasselblad is just terrible at marketing and communications. Phase is terrific at generating tremendous buzz around their products, and quite honestly, they do a great job at making them sexy. A lot of the bias against Hasselblad in some forums is that most look at their friends and see Phase backs. Maybe Hasselblad users are happy with their camera and just go about earning a living without checking blogs and forums every hour or so. Maybe Hasselblad has a larger share of the market than anyone knows.

Hasselblad does a pretty good job of frustrating me at times, but I have no illusion that they are close to perfect. But the negative attitudes shown by non-Hassy users are simply stunning. A PC user once took me to task because I had a Mac. He just excoriated me to no end. When I asked him if he had ever used a Mac he sheepishly told me he had not ever touched one. I just couldn’t believe it. Often I think about that when I hear such negativity coming from non-Hassy users.

Many, many stunning and technically perfect images using Phase systems grace this forum so it has to be a good system. You guys humble me as I look at the stunning images shown in the gallery of this forum. So would all you Phase users enjoy your systems, take many stunning pictures, see beautiful angles I never see, and simply encourage positive change in the MFD industry by all parties. I love my Hasselblad system!

Greg

I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
-bob

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Hey firm beloved in 40mpx is perfect. Had one lived it but wanted FF so the mpx went up but I really don't need the mpx . Just came with the package

 

[hcubell]

I think the very nature of the buyer as a private equity firm reflects well on Hasselblad's future prospects. The people who run these firms are not guided by romantic memories of Hasselblad's glory days. They are rigorous, disciplined investors who only invest if they see a reasonably clear path to growing Hasselblad's business and profits significantly over the next 5-6 years.
Does Hasselblad have a lot of catching up to do relative to Phase's IQ series of backs? Well, if the major advancement in the IQ backs is the new LCD, and so far it seems to be, that does not strike me as requiring a lot of R&D. It's all a matter of sourcing a new, high quality LCD from a third party.

 

[BANKER1]

Bob,

Carefully reading your responses to all the threads in which you participate gives me the impression that you are smart and well spoken. If you look at my discussion in context you will see that I am simply giving some examples of Hasselblad innovation. Asking how many multi-shots have been sold implies that they sell very few so what's the deal. I just think Hasselblad never gets their due in any of the forum discussions. They always seem to be kicked around a lot. For me, that gets old pretty quickly and makes me wonder just why people feel compelled to do so. Honestly, I don't care very much since I feel very satisfied with my decision to buy Hasselblad. Could that be it? Could others feel a little insecure about their decision so they trash the competition? Hmmm.

Greg

 

[PeterA]

Re Multishot ( perhaps) :OT:

The multi-shot market is a specialist market. For absolute high end colour accuracy and repro purposes as well as for archival integrity, many large art galleries, museums and other such collectors of fine art, paintings, lithographs, icons, jewelry etc etc use such devices. These institutions require in house departments capable of delivering these services if for no other reason than teh fact that it is imperative that many works are subject to minimal risk of handling - transporting these works is a major risk.

Product photographers are aslo users of such capabilities - as Marc has indicated for example on many occassions.

This market is not well known or understood by hobby shooters who in the main are represented by landscape photographers in this forum.

A multi shot back is a poor back for typical photogrpahic uses - typically you are talking tethered shooting of inanimate objects. The major technical barrier to using a multi shot back is absolute stability - you would be amazed at how resolving error can be translated from passing traffick vibration translated through flooring.

A few of the specialist rooms I have seen in National Galleries are custom designed to isolate extraneous sources of vibration as much as possible. For typical photographic purpose what is appropriate becomes inappropriate - things like tripod and other mounting devices are sources of vibration - even large weighted FOBO types are just the beginning of high end requirements.

 

[fotografz]

I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
-bob

Bob, please take a moment to read the whole Ventizz pronouncement from Dr. Vorndran, not just the part you mentioned.

"... with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as THE first class producer of medium format systems. Then he goes on to say "Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers."

RE: Multi-Shot ... probably more are out there than you suspect ... including at the Tate Gallery. I've hired many studios with MS cameras. There are a number of folks on the forum that use them ... they just don't blab about it much. Fact is Hasselbald has a 200 meg 6 shot camera "image leader" that can also be used in 4 shot mode or single shot, and Phase doesn't. BTW, the full H4D/200MS kit retail price is the same as the IQ180 back.

In fact there are a whole bunch of specialty things Hasselblad does that never gets discussed much here ... like a dedicated Aerial group, with a modified camera model and specially modified lenses and different firmware ... or their H4D/NIR camera sans an IR filter that's replaced with a special multicoated clear class filter ... available in the 40, 50, (or 50MS version for museums and galleries to examine paintings in the near-IR spectrum). And least we forget, Hasselblad still makes the best, and fastest desk-top scanner available.

By looking at their track record, the categories they do business in, and how they operate, one would assume these Ventizz folks are smart cookies and have studied all the financial and marketing data for MFD. So, it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks or speculates, what matters is that they are informed, and think that Hasselblad is "THE first class producer of medium format systems" ... and have put their money behind that belief. :thumbs:

-Marc

 

[David Schneider]

Then he goes on to say "Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers."

When I read that the first thing that I thought of was they will come out with relatively (for lack of a better term) lower end cameras with some of the features found in the Pentax 645d. I would think there's a larger market for professionals moving up to mf digital than there is in professionals moving up to ms bodies. Also, an "entry level" model would also appeal to the serious amateur market which again I would guess is larger than the ms market.

 

[fotografz]

When I read that the first thing that I thought of was they will come out with relatively (for lack of a better term) lower end cameras with some of the features found in the Pentax 645d. I would think there's a larger market for professionals moving up to mf digital than there is in professionals moving up to ms bodies. Also, an "entry level" model would also appeal to the serious amateur market which again I would guess is larger than the ms market.

Since they already have the entry priced H4D/31, that strategy would not be a foreign idea. MS has it's own well defined market as described by Peter A, and probably wouldn't fit a new expansion strategy.

I think the second "furthermore" statement may mean going even beyond that ... as I mentioned before, a smaller, more compact DSLR type body that takes the HC AF lenses comes to mind ... that form factor would be attractive to the serious enthusiasts if priced right ... and be a great back-up unit for some professionals.

Who knows what ideas the Hassey elves have explored that these guys saw in the process of buying the company.

-Marc

 

[Googaliser]

No one outside of the specialist MFD sector has heard of PhaseOne. My wife asked me the other day whether my 645DF was a new 'Hasselblad Product Line' !
Everyone has heard of Hasselblad, and brand has a fantastic mainstream image in my opinion. Phase simply doesn't have a mainstream image - period.

Thus, as an investor, I would definitely want to buy Hasselblad if the price was right. The potential is enormous. Now, how much of that potential will benefit readers of this forum - I don't know. I would take the brand high-end mainstream. Lets face it, Leica's rebranding of Panasonic's P&S cameras doesn't seem to have done them any damage - but it does help fund skunk work projects or buy time until the inhouse expertise is in-place.

There are good buyers and bad buyers. If Hasselblad have done their due-diligence well (assuming they had the luxury to do so) - and the new buyer is willing to inject sufficient capital and stick with Hasselblad for the long term - I think the potential is very exciting for the brand and sincerely wish them every success.


M

 

[carstenw]

Since they already have the entry priced H4D/31, that strategy would not be a foreign idea. MS has it's own well defined market as described by Peter A, and probably wouldn't fit a new expansion strategy.

I think the second "furthermore" statement may mean going even beyond that ... as I mentioned before, a smaller, more compact DSLR type body that takes the HC AF lenses comes to mind ... that form factor would be attractive to the serious enthusiasts if priced right ... and be a great back-up unit for some professionals.

It isn't clear to me if you mean MF still with a smaller DSLR body?

Anyway, the H4D-31 is a good start, but the strategy could be fleshed out. Adding a few lower-speced lenses (slower AF, smaller max aperture, not lower quality) could help someone get a foot in the MFD door without busting the bank. It ought to be possible to buy a low-end MFD system for not much more than a high-end DSLR, i.e. body price below $10000, lenses at about $1500-2500, as Pentax has done.

 

[David Grover / Phase One]

I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?
How does being good at this fit with a strategy of attracting a broader segment of the photographic market?
-bob

Bob,

Within the Museum / Reproduction industry, very large. Also as Marc states, within the Still Life sector too.

I was at a conference sponsored by us for this sector (Art and Historical Reproduction) a couple of weeks ago. Visitors from all over the globe, happy to say most using Hasselblad MS systems.

If you want absolute fidelity in a reproduction, then Multi Shot is your only choice.

David

 

[yaya]

I wonder exactly what is the size of the multi-shot market?

It's a relatively large market however its nature is changing rapidly and many of these customers are moving from 90's technology MS and scanning backs to new 80MP single-shot solutions

Suffice to say that many new prospects in emerging markets are looking mostly at single-shot solutions because of their simplicity, speed and low running costs

The cameras these days are operated by people who are not trained as photographers. The camera and software are locked at certain settings; aperture, shutter speed and processing parameters and they just press the button, or the book/ cradle/ copy stand does it for them, automatically

Many of them run their own bespoke front end for operating the camera and just use the back's SDK to drive it. In fact there are several dealers who specialise in these areas and can offer a complete solution. Lance's company is a good example.

When they look at the costs involved in running a slow and complex MS system in terms of capture-to-final product time and shutter life (and lights if they use flash), a single shot option makes a lot more sense to them

In many of these applications, namely the ones who utilise pneumatic/ mechanical/ robotic book cradles, MS is not a viable solution anyway since the pages, when lifted are not frozen still yet they still require a large file size.

Moreover there are companies who develop their own "camera" platform with bespoke shutter solutions and use the back as an OEM component. Naturally these people do not visit these forums but you see them at shows like CeBIT and other machine-vision oriented events

The present and future belong to single shot if you look at the sales figures of the 80MP backs. MS will gradually disappear as people move to the simpler, cheaper solutions

IMO

Yair

 

[fotografz]

It isn't clear to me if you mean MF still with a smaller DSLR body?

Anyway, the H4D-31 is a good start, but the strategy could be fleshes out. Adding a few lower-speced lenses (slower AF, smaller max aperture, not lower quality) could help someone get a foot in the MFD door without busting the bank. It ought to be possible to buy a low-end MFD system for not much more than a high-end DSLR, i.e. body price below $10000, lenses at about $1500-2500, as Pentax has done.

Yes still MFD, but along the lines of the S2 but ...uh ... buyable Lots of photographers have shown interest in the S2 but the price stops them cold ... like most Leica stuff. Even though I am pretty adept at using my H4D, I'm increasingly turning to the S2P because of the form factor and ease of taking it with me.

Perhaps Hasselblad's working association with Fuji could bear fruit? They are pretty good at making lenses for all kinds of applications and have the infrastructure to make it happen.
I mean, how cool would a digital GF645 folding camera be? Yummy.

-Marc

 

[cunim]

Bob,

If you want absolute fidelity in a reproduction, then Multi Shot is your only choice.

David

David, all the best for the future. In many ways, the 50MS outperformed my IQ180 so I can just imagine what the 200MS can do.

Perhaps the new management will phocus (heh) on your reliable and lucrative institutional customers. However, VCs tend to want growth areas. Is there a growth future for ultra high end still photography?

If that remains the primary interest, here is what I would do to expand share:

1 People buy what they see. Put the best display on the camera.
2 People buy what is easy to use. Dump the Phocus code body. Contract out a ground-up rebuild and pay a proven architect to design it with interface standardization as a priority.

Yes, these are both obvious and hard (= expensive) problems. I assume Hasselblad would have already done them if they were justified by revenue projections. Will Hasselblad improve old things with new money, or will it make new things with its great brand identity?

The cultural basis of imaging is changing so fast and investors will want you to lead the change. I wonder if we will recognize Hasselblad products in five years.

 

[ptomsu]

Yes still MFD, but along the lines of the S2 but ...uh ... buyable Lots of photographers have shown interest in the S2 but the price stops them cold ... like most Leica stuff. Even though I am pretty adept at using my H4D, I'm increasingly turning to the S2P because of the form factor and ease of taking it with me.

Perhaps Hasselblad's working association with Fuji could bear fruit? They are pretty good at making lenses for all kinds of applications and have the infrastructure to make it happen.
I mean, how cool would a digital GF645 folding camera be? Yummy.

-Marc

While I could not care less about a GF645 or similar, there is a lot of truth in what you say about Leica etc.

But would a Hasselblad version of the S System be successful now? Now that we already have Leica? I think this market is so very small and tight that it is tricky to find new business areas which could be successful.