LR vs. Aperture for MF?

[Christopher]

I personally use C1 for most raw files, especially all phase raw files.

However, I would say that the highlight and shadow recovery in C1 is just bad, or better a load of crap. Many other programs work much better. The HDR skideres are no real recovery sliders. I would call them mush sliders. The only real way to get the details in the shadows with a back like the P65 or IQ180 in a high contrast image is to use the HDR LCC trick. Once again C1 failed me, as I can't use it, because the LCC is already used by the real LCC file.

This really goes on my nerves, because it takes a lot more time tomopen up the shadows in PS.

 

[Geoff]

I don't have time to review my entire workflow, but my personal catalog/workflow works like this:

C1: Import/Edit/Adjust/Rename the images as a session
C1: Process the Selects to 16 bit to the output folder of the session
PS: Open anything that needs retouching (e.g. liquify, texture painting, object removal) / Save
C1: Process the 16-bit TIFFS (so that retouching is included where applicable) to two final-uses:
---- Facebook: Small JPGs with watermark
---- Client-DVD: Large High Quality JPGs

I then burn a DVD with the JPGs, upload the Small JPGs to Facebook, and then delete those files.

I empty my session trash (by now I can be sure whether I needed to use a crap image for a head/hand/texture/etc).

I then Import the 16-Bit TIFFs to an Aperture Project. I copy/paste the name of the session. My C1 Sessions and Aperture both have six categories (Weddings, Nudes, Fashion-Portrait, Landscape, Life, Other) so there is very little effort to keep them coordinated.

The upshot is I can keep the super-select retouched images in a catalog for catalog-required-tasks such as:
- pulling the years best images for marketing
- making books/albums
- showing potential wedding client's complete weddings

There is no need (in my personal workflow) to have instant access to a raw file behind a catalog'd final image. I VERY rarely would need to go back and retweak a file starting at the raw stage (I do my photoshop in layers, so if I screwed up retouching I could simply reopen the layered TIFF in PS from Aperture and re-shop it as needed). Not having the non-select images in the catalog is huge boon to me; keeping the size of the catalog done, and the "riff-raff" out.

This basically separates the files into:
- Raws / Movies*
- Finals

nicely stated and a good model to try.

 

[fotografz]

Here's my workflow using Lightroom. This is usually based on wedding work which can involve a lot of files from a number of different cameras ... like a M9, Sony A900, my second shooter's Canon, and sometimes the S2 or Hasselblad H4D60.

Use 4 daisy-chained Lexar FW800 card readers to download to a master file ... a few SDs from the Leica M downloaded at the same time to the same master file. Pull the cards and set aside.

Open LR and select the master file sorted by time shot to keep everything in the story line intact regardless of camera used. This is literally instantaneous. Zoom the previews and uncheck all the obvious mis-shots and junk.

Click import, and immediately go to the Develop Module and start adjusting the very first files loaded as the remaining ones load in the background. It is not necessary to wait until everything is loaded. The key is to only apply things like crops, straightening or localized exposure balance ... because when the whole catalog is loaded you can then apply general batch settings to everything at once.

There are now so many localized tools in LR, that it is rare to need PS ... but I have it as a plug-in as well as a few other programs like Define 2 and Silver Efx. The key is that any adjustments made in PS goes back into LR next to the RAW file. Using "virtual Copy" I can also have the color, B&W and toned versions all together in the story line.

Once the entire catalog is loaded, I select by metadata and apply general batch settings like fringe or a profile to specific lenses or cameras.

Once this is done it is all backed up to the file for that wedding ... output can vary widely based on client needs, but the files all are at max size and can be outputted to meet specifications.

I can send to a social site, or to my Smugmug page, print proofs, make a web preview, or a slide show directly from LR without leaving it for a different program.

This has dramatically cut my computer time for each job.

-Marc

 

[Godfrey]

since we're doing workflow descriptions ...

LR workflow:

- import originals into "in progress" LR *. During import, files go into right place in file hierarchy, split off archive duplicates to supplementary drive, rename to standard convention, add IPTC copyright/location/etc metadata from template, add general keywords for session entirety.

* If for an assignment or specific project, originals go into a new Lightroom catalog. All further steps are done in the new catalog until rendering is completed, then the catalog is imported into the main "in progress" catalog to allow for future searches and category organization.

- Sort for picks and reject using flags. Filter on picks and create new collection of them. Filter on unpicked and rejects, make second and third pass. Add any new picks to collection, delete all rejects. Switch to collection.

- run backup system

- Grade picks in collection. As grading progresses, render images. Refine metadata annotation and complete rendering (round trip to PS occasionally).

- Export products to project folder in completed projects (archive max rez 16bit TIFFs, and specific product outputs for client use). Prepare images for printing, web, etc etc. Annotate and document project (external to Lightroom, text or word processing file in the project directory, also rendered to PDF). Import projects into separate "completed work" Lightroom catalog for easy future access.

- run backup system

- Roll output products into Aperture as appropriate.
- Print output products as appropriate.
- Make web galleries as appropriate.
- etc etc

- run backup system

Notes:
- all image files and work is backed up into multiple separate archives regularly to minimize risk of loss.
- all *finished* images are exported to most editable, most complete TIFF format to minimize risk of loss.
- annotation in metadata is supplemented by documentation in project organization. this makes for a good transition to dedicated archiving and image cataloging software if required in the future.
- use of Aperture is for post image processing project use .. books, slide shows, as a distribution point for images into integrated multimedia projects, etc. Aperture libraries always look at the completed work files by reference to minimize space consumption on disk.

Works nicely for me. I'm not shooting with medium format digital cameras at present so I can't really comment on how much better or worse Lightroom's rendering qualities might be compared to Aperture's or C1s, or any other raw converter, for those cameras. But I like the use of LR for workflow the most of any other software I've used to date.

 

[Wayne Fox]

Only if you want multiple programs to be allowed to (constantly) make write commands to your raw files. That sounds like a great recipe for (occasionally, but not rarely enough to be ignored) corrupted files.

The only time I want a program to make ANY write command to my raw files is when I specifically ask it to (which means I know I have a good backup already and will pay attention for any signs of trouble).

Exactly. If I want it be able to do it, I should be able to. Obviously there is a minuscule chance of corruption, but as mentioned, my work files are always 3rd copies ... I have two others that are never touched.

Now some XMP can be shared with C1. Check in the preferences menu.

Doug Peterson

Very interesting. Had no clue that was there - it may be just the ticket for letting LR and C1 communicate keywords and ratings. thanks

Edit: Just tried it, and very workable. LR and C1 now share my keywords and ratings. Almost automatic except if you make changes in C1 you have to tell LR to read in the metadata.

 

[aboudd]

Let's get to the meat of the issue - the gear, after all, who really cares about software ... :-0
Before you throw down 25k on the body and an average price of 6k per lens (if you can find them) on the S2, go take a look at the Pentax 645D. I had the M9 for a year. It produced great files, but I could not get used to a rangefinder. I replaced my Nikon D3x with the 645D last month and the files are truly amazing. 10k for this camera is a steal. I use LR3 with it and get great results, some of which I have posted in the Fun with 645D thread.

 

[Godfrey]

... Very interesting. Had no clue that was there - it may be just the ticket for letting LR and C1 communicate keywords and ratings. thanks

Edit: Just tried it, and very workable. LR and C1 now share my keywords and ratings. Almost automatic except if you make changes in C1 you have to tell LR to read in the metadata.

You might go to the LR Catalog Preferences, Metadata tab, and turn on "automatically write changes into XMP". I believe this will automate Lightroom's writing and reading changes to .XMP sidecar files, but haven't tested to find out.