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Thread: buying used digital backs on ebay

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    buying used digital backs on ebay

    Hi everyone,

    While searching for a used Leaf Aptus 75 on ebay (those seem to be available from USD 6,000,- these these days, amazing!), I saw that TMRPromotions
    (ebay shop: http://stores.ebay.com/TMRPromotions...id=p4340.l2563) is constantly selling used leaf backs.
    Does anyone have experiences with this company, can you recommend them?

    Also, what about buying used digital backs online or on ebay, do you consider that a good idea?

    best,

    geb

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by gebseng View Post
    ....Also, what about buying used digital backs online or on ebay, do you consider that a good idea?

    best,

    geb
    You can "shop online" for used/refurbished items at reputable dealers like Optechs Digital and Capture Integration. I'd steer away from ebay, unless it's a known seller. An important part of the initial acquisition is support after the sale.... Refurbs will have a short warranty that you know a reputable dealer will help you with. And even after the warranty has expired, you can count on continuing support from a good dealer. Better to give the dealer a call---they may have items from trade-ins that are not posted online.

    ken

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Just something to bear in mind: even the most minor repair on a digital back seems to be $1K+. If you do buy used without warranty, keep that in mind when working out if it's a good deal.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I would just not take the chance with e-bay and digital backs. As Graham mentioned any repair and the risk involved on something over 5K on e-bay it simply is way to much of a risk. I would buy used from a friend that you know or forum member that you know well . But best bet is from a dealer at least they will stand behind the purchase even without warranty for 30,60,90 days.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Occasionally you might see a dealer or other retailer using ebay. I would make that the only exception but even then a clear communication about the terms would be necessary.
    -bob

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I take a pretty simple approach on this. Simply call the company selling the backs on eBay and tell them you've recently purchased a Leaf Digital Back from their eBay store and have some basic questions about the installation of the software and you think there may be a problem that needs to be repaired.

    See what they say.

    Then call us and see what we say :-).

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    lol, they list an Aptus 22 with a third party 1.5 meter FW cable. That's a pretty short tether line!

    Also an off-brand charger and the original battery (7 year old batteries tend not to do well).

    (note I'm heavily biased and self-interested in this regard)

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    lol, they list an Aptus 22 with a third party 1.5 meter FW cable. That's a pretty short tether line!

    Also an off-brand charger and the original battery (7 year old batteries tend not to do well).

    (note I'm heavily biased and self-interested in this regard)
    But I know is sage advice from someone who has seen dozens and dozens of headaches from those trying to save a buck.

    With the current climate of trade-ins, my guess is that there are/will be a lot of excellent offerings from reputable dealers.

    ken

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I agree with all being said but at the end of the day I ended up buying my original back on ebay.

    It was from a reputable well known dealer, had very low actuations (less than 500), and was still under warranty. From start to finish the dealer was fantastic and also facilitated the upgrade of the AFD III body to the DF.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I'll tag off of Bob and Terry here and in Terry's case I helped her along with her purchase but she made all the right phone calls, made exactly sure of what she was going to get and any dealer warranty attached to it. In these cases when a reputable dealer is using e-bay more to advertise than anything else than usually these are safe bets. Hell if your not sure ask the forum, many qualified answers here as well with plenty of international experience to know most of the dealers out there and there reputations.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I sell my Leaf 65 back for Contax 645 on eBay. It's in mint condition with less than 5000 activations. The Leaf come with all original accessories and two Leaf boxes. I include some extra items. I will provide you links/details, if you are interested.
    Evgeny

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    TMR is decent though sometimes their rating system is a little off....BUT they do have a good return policy.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I have no good experience with TMR. Their rating is rubbish, I hate it when I have to return stuff because the seller is dishonest in rating the equipment they are selling.

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    New Member reflectedlights's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustbak View Post
    I have no good experience with TMR. Their rating is rubbish, I hate it when I have to return stuff because the seller is dishonest in rating the equipment they are selling.
    True it is a pain. KEH seems the best ratings wise (at least I have had good experience)...though they are not ebay so I diverge from the OP.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Wow, thanks for all the great input, this is much more than I hoped for!

    I agree that, if you buy a used DB that is relatively recent and expensive, a proper dealer and a 1yr warranty is the way to go.

    But, in case of an Aptus 75, I see them on ebay for around USD 6.000,- with a 14 day return policy, while from dealers they are USD 10.000,- minimum,or even the equivalent of USD 14.000,- here in Europe. For that price difference, I could get an additional used Aptus 22, just for backup...

    geb

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I did buy some a non digital Hassie system from them - the service was good but as previously said, their rating system is not very accurate. The gear had more wear and tear than I expected from the images and description. That said, it all worked just fine.
    Odille

    H2 | P20 | HC 50-110 | HC 150 f3.2 | HC 210 f4 ~ My Website

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Leaf Aptus 75, H mount $21,990 $9,990

    Everything is negotiable especially used. And guess what you will pay for that dealer support. So do you want to guarantee your 6k or receive a brick instead. Sorry to be so blunt but this **** happens.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Hi folks,

    Just to keep you updated: I bought a used Leaf 75S back in H mount plus cable, charger and batteries for 4.500,- (with shipping) from a London based photographer. I had it checked by my local Leaf dealer (I am based in Vienna, Austria). The back is like new and after working with it for 3 months I couldn't be happier.

    best,

    geb

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by gebseng View Post
    Hi everyone,
    I saw that TMRPromotions
    (ebay shop: http://stores.ebay.com/TMRPromotions...id=p4340.l2563) is constantly selling used leaf backs.
    Does anyone have experiences with this company, can you recommend them?

    Also, what about buying used digital backs online or on ebay, do you consider that a good idea?
    I have experience with them. Basically, they are the opposite of KEH. They overrate the condition by about 2 levels (where, KEH seems to underrate their stuff). I would stay away from TMR for this reason, particularly because their prices are only marginally fair for the condition that they advertised. Invariably, you end up paying more than you should because the item is not in as good condition as advertised.

    - Tom

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Leaf Aptus 75, H mount $21,990 $9,990

    Everything is negotiable especially used. And guess what you will pay for that dealer support. So do you want to guarantee your 6k or receive a brick instead. Sorry to be so blunt but this **** happens.
    I've had pretty good luck buying used digital backs on ebay. If the back is in terrible condition or broken its nearly impossible not to get your money back. Ebay and paypal are extremely biased against sellers and the money you send the seller is essentially held in escrow for 30 days or until you give positive feedback, basically no matter what even if the seller does not cooperate, paypal can handle the dispute for you and you will get your money back. Even still, I've probably bought 18k worth of gear on ebay and never had a problem, I might be luckly but like I said, everything is EXTREMELY biased in the buyers favor, so much so that sellers do not want to use ebay anymore.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Back to OP's original question, TMRPromotions is a very good dealer. I have purchased many lenses from him over the years, all 645 and all were in excellent condition. Every lens was exactly has described. He has a very good supply and a very good price point. I have not purchased a digital back from him however.

    Use of a dealer might be a better solution on a back, issues like support, and possible warranty (used warranty) but price point is important also. You have to make that decision. I would not worry about TMRPromotions not shipping exactly what is described.

    Paul Caldwell

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Several years ago, I bought a used ixpress 384 from TMR promotions that came DOA. I had some difficulty returning this, but eventually after much effort AND the help of Ebay customer service was able to do so but I had to pay shipping both ways which I felt was not fair considering the problem was through no fault of mine.

    While its possible that this was a fluke experience, I personally have avoided doing any further business with this particular seller. I am happy to read others have had better experiences.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Leaf Aptus 75, H mount $21,990 $9,990

    Everything is negotiable especially used. And guess what you will pay for that dealer support. So do you want to guarantee your 6k or receive a brick instead. Sorry to be so blunt but this **** happens.
    Very simple way to buy off ebay.
    Request a 15 day return policy and have them include it in the listing.
    Only buy if ebay buyer protection is on the listing.
    Have it sent to Mamiya-usa for a good checkup, clean and service with warranty.
    IF Mamiya says it's no good... send it back.

    IF that's too complicated spend 4 to 8 thousand more with a dealer.

    Dealers claim factory refurbished... when all that has been done is a vendor or distributor checkup. legally factory refurbished has quite a narrow definition.

    Also on many ebay listings offer 3rd party warranty at an extra fee. Far less than a dealers markup.

    Another thing to consider is that in some cases you can buy a 75 or 65 used back and a new 22PM back as a back up for the same price as a single dealer supported back.

    One thing for sure if you have no previous experience with DB a dealer is a good option.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I don't know why people here are so afraid of eBay.

    As someone said here already, eBay and Paypal are completely biased in favor of the buyer.
    It doesn't matter what the seller's return policy is - if you don't like the item, you can send it back and you will get your money back.

    I bought and sold $10000's on eBay with almost no problems.
    The only way to lose your money, is if you find a problem with the item after more than 45 days, or not pay via Paypal.

    I bought and sold to TMR with no problems, but not over $2000.
    With KEH I've had several problems where the item was in much worse condition than described.
    Obviously sellers of used equipment are not full service shops - it is not reasonable to expect it.
    You pay less and get less. If you know exactly what you want you can save a lot of money.

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I bought my phase One p45 from tmrpromotion, Im located in Denmark and here there is all most no used digital back for sale so I cross my fingers and bought this back with only 275 actuation on the counter and Im very satisfied ..

    Tommy
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    Tommy Hjorth
    http://www.tommyhjorth.dk

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Just to add I've bought from TMR from ebay and have been very happy, better than other places on ebay. Had purchased RZII and lenses in the past and have been delighted!

    I never had any problem so nothing to share about that troubleshooting/resolving with them!

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    I bought my digital H2 and Phase One P20 from a UK Bay site. It was a photo studio who were selling a unit that had been a tethered camera in the studio an was being replaced by an upgrade. Never ha a moment's trouble with it but I did do my homework, check their website, actually ring up from Oz to Uk an speak to them etc.
    Odille

    H2 | P20 | HC 50-110 | HC 150 f3.2 | HC 210 f4 ~ My Website

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Then call us and see what we say :-).
    "send it to MAC"

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by gebseng View Post
    Hi folks,

    Just to keep you updated: I bought a used Leaf 75S back in H mount plus cable, charger and batteries for 4.500,- (with shipping) from a London based photographer. I had it checked by my local Leaf dealer (I am based in Vienna, Austria). The back is like new and after working with it for 3 months I couldn't be happier.

    best,

    geb
    Congrats on the purchase, but let's see some images form it!!!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    One problem we should all be aware of is that adapters can cost half as much as a digital back... I bought a Sinar sliding back (rear standard replacement) thinking that I could buy an adaptor for it to make it H4 compatible - but the H4 compatible sliding back is a different model, with an integral adapter! ...(I have kept it, thinking I might get a V sys back sometime.)

    Sometimes somebody advertises what you want, with the right adapter, then you see the item again at a reduced price - but, if you look carefully you find they have sold off the adapter, which would cost you over a grand to buy new.

    ...and Linhof Studio and Calumet both advertise on eBay

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: buying used digital backs on ebay

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    "send it to MAC"

    I'm sorry, but this is wrong Sergei.

    No it is almost never a simple case of "Send it to MAC". If you want a small sample of what kind of things occur with ownership of a digital back system, as well as our response to them in terms of do we just do paperwork and turn it over to Phase One or Leaf or what, then check out my attachment. This is just a small sample list culled from our support logs. Keep in mind we have thousands of legacy digital back clients and hundreds and hundreds of new digital back clients added each year.

    More than anything, when someone purchases from us, they are purchasing from a partner, and the relationship works very much like that. It is much, much more than someone who just sends hardware in for repairs.

    **This is not in any way intended to portray manufacturers negatively - it is the nature of the proximity to the client that explains our level of involvement. We would not have a strong collaboration with any manufacturer who was not up to the task of providing essential back-end support to us.

    You know where we sit on eBay purchases. I'm sure anything can be purchased from eBay and you'll have testimonials - "Oh, no problems, etc". From these selected testimonials I believe it is possible to get a false sense of security. Sure, you might save some money and come out ok. On the other hand - for many - things will occur (see attached list). But we don't deal in absolutes. It's your money, you're free to spend it where you feel best. Sometimes a client starts out on eBay, or picks up something on eBay, but at some point makes their next purchase from us. It is very rare that this occurs in the opposite order.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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