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Thread: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

  1. #1
    GeoffRoss
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    IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Hello everyone,

    This is my first time here, so I hope I am doing this correctly.

    Yesterday I received my Phase One camera and lenses, along with the IQ180 back. Overall it is a very nice system, and I am most pleased with the detail, exposure capture, ease of use etc. etc., but there is one issue I am having, and I was wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing or not. It is to do with colour accuracy, and more specifically in the orange-red and red-brown colour spectrums. They are consistently over-saturated in all images.

    I have spent a lot of time, effort and money over the years developing a high level of colour management for both viewing and processing of images, which is essential when publishing books etc. So I feel very confident that this is not an issue that is related to colour management.

    Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so how have you resolved it, apart from the obvious selection of that colour range and reduce the saturation in Capture One? Obviously I would prefer not to have to do this for all my images.

    Regards,
    Geoff Ross
    www.geoffrossphotography.com

  2. #2
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Can you post a sample picture that outlines the problem colors?

    Obvious first question is what basic C1 settings are you using?

    Next, what profile are you using in the recipe you have hi-lighted when you edit, and what option/profile have you selected for proof view?
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Do you have the back set on AWB also. Use only daylight and or tungsten in that light and WB from there in C1.

    Might be helpful for us to see a color chart . My immediate trouble shooting guess is AWB is really is not accurate.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  4. #4
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Thanks for the swift reply, I wasn't really expecting a response so quickly!

    I have used both Auto and Daylight white balance settings on the IQ180, yet the over-saturated red tones are there in all images that contain these colours. Other colours look pretty good. I must stress that I am quite fussy when it comes to colour accuracy, but I think anyone with just a reasonable ability to judge colour accuracy would see what I am referring to. The level I must make adjustment is by around -20 saturation in Capture One after selecting the relevant colour sample using the eye-dropper. This brings the oarange-reds/brown-reds back to a fairly accurate level.

    I will process an image as is, and one with the colour level corrected so that you can see exactly what I mean, and hopefully attach it to this.

    Regards,
    Geoff Ross

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    ... and what option/profile have you selected for proof view?
    I'll bite .. never changed this. Isn't covered in the LuLa tutorials that I can remember, not sure what it's supposed to do. Mine's set to selected recipe .. I assume that's default.
    wayne
    My gallery

  6. #6
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I've just viewed the original RAW flle in Lightroom, and the saturation of the reddish tones is normal, so the problem must lie somewhere in Capture One, and certainly not the IQ180 back

    Regards,
    Geoff Ross

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I agree the left hand image does have overly intense reds and you've done a good job of correcting in RH image.

    You can save all the adjustments you've made into a Style and apply this to all images easily. However this is a workaround and I think you are right to see what is the fundamental underlying problem in the set-up. Although I don't have an IQ80, I have been reading posts and not seen any reference to this issue, nor the same trait in posted images. After all you've invested heavily into a wonderful camera system, you want it to work as you'd like.

    When viewing my P45+ files in LR3 they look rather awful and I wouldn't be using this as a gauge, but as you've noted it can be useful for relative comparison of tones.

    What saturation setting are you using? I seldom go above +3. My C1 skill level isn't on a par with Jack, Guy and a whole host of others here. But living in the UK, at least I am able to post now whilst they sleep!

  8. #8
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Baxter,

    Up until more recent times, I have been concentrating on Lightroom rather than Capture One, and to be honest each program has its merits and downfalls. In terms of colour manipulation Lightroom has the edge in my opinion. I am quite happy to work in either program, but my knowledge is certainly greater in Lightroom.

    I am strongly suspecting the problem lies within a setting somewhere in Capture One, but it isn't showing itself to me yet. The suggestion about the overall saturation isn't really the answer I don't think, because if I bring the overall saturation back to correct the brickwork, then all the other colours are very much under saturated.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    A RAW file with a macbeth colour chart will be a good start for troubleshooting this one. Note that WB presets are just presets and for accurate WB you should use a grey card

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  10. #10
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Yair,

    There is a reasonably close grey card with the drive-way, but I repeat the overall saturation isn't the issue, it is distinctly restricted to the reddish spectrum, whereby the only solution I am seeing so far is to do an isolating desaturation of the colours concerned.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  11. #11
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Can you post a sample picture that outlines the problem colors?

    Obvious first question is what basic C1 settings are you using?

    Next, what profile are you using in the recipe you have hi-lighted when you edit, and what option/profile have you selected for proof view?
    Jack,

    The Proof Profile is set to Adobe RGB, and the same for the recipe.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  12. #12
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    It looks to me that you might have the ICC profile of you camera set to Flash which is how C1 defaults your setting to for some reason regardless of WB. This boosts reds a lot IMO. Try changing this to outdoor daylight and that should help calm the redish tones. Your camera ICC profile can be found in the "Base Characteristics" tool in the camera tab in C1.

  13. #13
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Gareth,

    No, it is set to daylight. I am using the latest 12 core Mac, and I know there were some odd things happening prior to the last upgrade. So maybe this is one of them that didn't get addressed. I have spent a good part of today trying all sorts of different settings, but to no avail. It is starting to look like I will just have to apply a Style to my images to correct for this over saturated red tones. Not the end of the earth to do, but not ideal either.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  14. #14
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I think using a gray driveway for WB if you are being very colour critical is madness personally. The only way to get to the root of this is to shoot with a proper WB card, to make sure you have the correct ICC profile selected in Base Profile and that you have properly WBd the file from your WB card, and to ensure that you view on a fully profiled monitor and print to a fully profiled printer and paper.

    Anything else is guesswork and will drive you bonkers!

    If it were me I would also shoot a full gretag and if I were not satisfied having done all of the above I would make a profile for the camera in daylight using a Colour Checker Passport. All of this I would do before the blanket solution of reducing saturation selectively and then saving it as a style: IMHO this is likely to throw off images made under different circumstances.

    If I get a chance this afternoon I will shoot a Passport under studio light and look at it on a profiled monitor to see if I can replicate your problem on my IQ180/DF combo.

    HTH

    tim

  15. #15
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Tim,

    I assure you I am far from being mad. Whether the driveway grey or a grey card is utilized for gauging a neutral, all other colours will be modified as well, and not just the red tones. The issue I am having is that the red tones are being over-saturated, it is not actually a colour tonal problem. The colour when the saturation is reduced is actually very close indeed.

    I am in total agreement about all else you have said, as I too have given a great deal of attention to colour management over the years.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  16. #16
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Jack & Guy,

    It is just about time for me to call it quits for today, but the best settings that I have been able to work out in Capture One is to have under:
    BASE CHARACTERISTICS
    Daylight
    Linear response

    If I reduce the overall saturation levels slightly, the red tones are still over saturated to what they really are, and still require attention in the selective colour editor.

    Colour charts are all good and well, but they do not compete with "real world" photography for making real assessments about colours of things we are very familiar with. This is very much the situation with things I have photographed around the house with the new system over the past day that have disclosed this obvious over saturation problem. As I mentioned earlier, this issue is not happening in Lightroom, so it would appear to be a Capture One problem of some kind.

    Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

    Regards,
    Geoff Ross

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    When you open a RAW file in Capture One, it tags your images with an ICC camera profile (flash by default)

    I think what you may be experiencing is that the images in Capture One are tagged with this profile, but when you open the image in LR, they are not tagged with a ICC profile by default, so no profile is being applied. I think that this is why you are observing a difference in color and saturation.

    In Capture One you can edit that ICC color profile and just dial down the saturation, save that out as an edited profile and simply apply it to all your new images that you shoot tethered or to a CF card. This works really well when you want to use Capture One as your standard processing engine.

    Below is the link to the Professor's Blog where this topic was covered.

    http://blog.phaseone.com/?s=color+editor

    I work with many photographers with backs and they tell me yep but I want to shoot into LR instead of C1 and I say no problem, but when they get the image into PS they like the C! results better. They feel it has more shape and contrast, more detail, and more accurate color. Much of this has to do with the ICC camera profile. LR cannot use this profile.

    But you can make a profile for LR using X Rite Passport system which works good too. I see the main difference when I compare color areas, the C1 files seem to have more detail with more texture. The color in LR is good but lacks some snap in the detail of certain colors.

    Good Luck,



    Sincerely,

    Chris Snipes
    Sales Manager, Florida
    Capture Integration
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffRoss View Post
    Thanks for the swift reply, I wasn't really expecting a response so quickly!

    I have used both Auto and Daylight white balance settings on the IQ180, yet the over-saturated red tones are there in all images that contain these colours. Other colours look pretty good. I must stress that I am quite fussy when it comes to colour accuracy, but I think anyone with just a reasonable ability to judge colour accuracy would see what I am referring to. The level I must make adjustment is by around -20 saturation in Capture One after selecting the relevant colour sample using the eye-dropper. This brings the oarange-reds/brown-reds back to a fairly accurate level.

    I will process an image as is, and one with the colour level corrected so that you can see exactly what I mean, and hopefully attach it to this.

    Regards,
    Geoff Ross

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Hi Geoff,

    Unfortunately I cannot offer direct advice as using a Leaf back. But I am fussy about colour!!. By default in C1 under Base Characteristics, ICC profile and Curve are present for me. In the ICC profile I have a ton of options and to be honest most are overly red. There are three out of 17 choices that are of any use whatsoever. Most of them blow the red channel to a large degree making things such as the colour of brown hair go red around the fringe, nasty halos/posterisation on cheeks and so on. They would certainly cause something similar to the sample images you have shown. I have found in many cases the default saturation in C1 to be too high.

    The only thing I can offer is that it took a lot of experimentation to choose the three ICC profiles that are at least 'ok'. I hope to get an xrite colorimeter that I can create a proper lens profile soon. In lightroom I used the colour checker passport for this, but it won't generate an ICC profile, only an LR adjustment file.

    Check also that you don't have a Style/Preset being applied to all images. The easiest way is to enable the Quick tab (View -> Add Tool Tab), there's a Style Preset tool on there.

    Finally, as others have pointed out, the colour space of the "Process Recipe" under the output tab can also have adverse effects. I have a setting for Tiff 100% with a colour space of ProPhoto that I use to export to PS.

    C1 is certainly a differnt workflow, confusing to start with, but kind of makes sense once you get into it.

    Hope that might be of some help.
    Paul

  19. #19
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffRoss View Post
    Jack,

    The Proof Profile is set to Adobe RGB, and the same for the recipe.

    Regards,
    Geoff
    Do me a favor, and try setting your proof profile top "selected recipe" instead and let me know if it looks any different. It appears like a wide-gamut monitor trying to view an un-tagged sRGB image...

    Which camera profile are you using, flash or daylight? (Note that "flash" truncates and bumps red and blue saturation and Outdoor Daylight is a larger space and more even, and more accurate.) Which standard curve -- should be film standard? Do you have any styles enabled? What rendering engine are you using in color preferences, Relative or Perceptual? (Try perceptual if you set it to RC). Is your Adobe revcipe 8 or 16-bit? If 8, move it to 16.

    Your bricks look horrible in the left uncorrected image, so something is definitely amiss. My first best guess is you are using the Flash profile and something is not catching in the dedicated proof profile... So try Perceptual rendering intent in your color preferences, "Selected Recipe" in your proof view and flash for your camera profile, then instead of using AdobeRGB, try using Profoto 16 bit or "embed camera profile" in 16 bit and see if that helps at all.
    Jack
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  20. #20
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    I'll bite .. never changed this. Isn't covered in the LuLa tutorials that I can remember, not sure what it's supposed to do. Mine's set to selected recipe .. I assume that's default.
    Hi Wayne,

    Selected recipe is what I recommend unless you have a dedicated workflow which requires a specific profile, like a CMYk offset shop...
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Just another data point check your color editor as well and make sure nothing is selected. Your just to far off the mark here so something is off somewhere in the chain. Also when you post here on the forum make sure you are SRGB. Also check your red channel in C1
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    BTW welcome to GetDPI as you can see folks will break there back to help people.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Which camera profile are you using, flash or daylight? (Note that "daylight" truncates and bumps red and blue saturation and flash is a larger space and more even, and more accurate.
    Jack, I always thought it was the other way around and "Outdoor Daylight" had a larger more accurate colour space than "Flash".

  24. #24
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    One other thing came to mind -- on import, make sure you are not applying a style or doing an "auto correct"
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  25. #25
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    First of all, thanks so much for all the suggestions!

    Jack, I have now tried most of what you have suggested, except one, which is how do I check the red channel in Capture One? I have to admit I don't know where or how to do that in the program.

    On checking all the other things, and changing them to the various options suggested, the result is pretty much the same. However, I am glad you agree that something is wrong, as it definitely is. I did send an email to Phase One about it, but so far only a confirmation that they received it.

    I also contacted my local dealer, and he suspects that because I am using a very recent 12 core Mac, that there is likely a bug that hasn't been addressed yet. A few months ago, prior to the latest upgrade in Capture One, there were a lot of issues.

    How can I edit the camera profile? I think that might be a solution.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Geoff:

    You can edit the camera profile using color editor under the advanced tab. You select red then dial saturation back to an acceptable level. Actually, you could shoot a MacBeth and then build a new profile by setting everything exactly. Anyway, once you have all the colors the way you want, you can save it as an icc profile -- call it IQ180_DL_adjusted or whatever and then select it in the camera profile dropdown.

    However, BEFORE you do any of that, have you processed both files and opened them in CS? And if so, do they still have the same difference? I suspect they will not, that the one showing saturated reds is going to look "right" in CS. That would tell us that is is how your system is rendering the preview and not an actual color issue on output. If not, then for sure, build a corrected profile per above...
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  27. #27
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Jack,

    Thanks very much for the information on how to edit the camera profile.

    Yesterday, before I even posted anything on this forum, I had already processed images, and yes they reflect exactly what I see in Capture One. The saturation in the reds is pretty close to being -20 (which is a LOT!) on all images containing this red spectrum. At least it is consistent! I am just about to take my gear into the dealer, and we are going to check out my images on his computer. He feels that it is a problem Capture One has with the Mac 12 core computer, and after seeing the issues prior to the last couple of upgrades, I tend to agree that it is a very strong possibility.

    I will post the results of my meeting with him later on, so that others can profit from it.

    Regards and thanks very much again,

    Geoff

  28. #28
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I have just returned from my dealer's premises, where we performed a number of test exposures on 3 different backs, 2 IQ180s and 1 65+, plus we now have viewed the results on two totally separate and different Mac computers. The bottom line is that there IS a problem in Capture One in accurately rendering reddish-browns and orange-reds.

    If you all do the same test you will find the same results as we have. My dealer is today putting together a formal case to ledge to Phase One.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  29. #29
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    What version of C1 are you running?
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  30. #30
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Jack,

    Both the dealer and I use the latest version of Capture One, and he also checked back on the last couple of versions, and they too have the same issue. It really is surprising that noone has reported it to Phase One, or else they haven't acted upon it yet.

    The tests we did this morning really prove that there is an over saturation of the red-brown and orange brown spectrum. If you do some tests photographing similar colours whether they be bricks or whatever that you are familiar with, I am pretty certain you will see the same over saturation as well.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffRoss View Post
    Jack,If you do some tests photographing similar colours whether they be bricks or whatever that you are familiar with, I am pretty certain you will see the same over saturation as well.
    Geoff sorry, I'm just not getting the results that you are.

    The reds might be a bit too saturated but that could be to do with WB or exposure as the building looked 95% as it is in the image below.

    700px square crop from a P65+, Schneider Digitar 120N, daylight WB and ICC profile straight out of C1 6.2.1 as sRGB jpeg 80% on an 8 core Mac Pro OSX 10.6.8.
    Last edited by gazwas; 11th August 2011 at 23:52.

  32. #32
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Gareth,

    You say that "the reds might be a bit too saturated", so you are actually confirming what the results we are also getting. The fact is, we proved quite conclusively this morning that there is indeed an issue with Capture One's rendering of the brown-red spectrum, and Phase One really need to address this. We checked the 3D imaging of their colour gamut, and there is indeed a spike in the reds, which corresponds to the saturation I have been speaking of.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Yes and No!

    I'm saying the reds look fine but if being very critical they are slightly over saturated but look in reality 95% as they do in the attached shot. In other words nowhere near as saturated as your attached image.

    Put it this way, if you had not posted this question I'd never have noticed anything wrong as with my results its so minor.

  34. #34
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Gareth,

    That image I posted is absolutely typical of the results I have seen in the past couple of days, with every image that has the reddish brown and orange-red colour. There has been no exception. This has also been using different backs, and on another computer as well. The dealer concerned has a great deal of knowledge in the workings of Capture One, and he had to conclude that yes there is an issue that needs to be rectified.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  35. #35
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Geoff,
    I have dug this up having vaguely remembered it. Scroll down to the sub headline 'red shadows'
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...d_report.shtml

    That might interest you ;-)
    Tim

  36. #36
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Tim,

    This is an entirely different sort of issue, and one that is not related to a particular back, but a problem with the Capture One software, and in particular the over saturated rendering of certain reddish tones. It's not a major serious problem, as it can be overcome by corrections in the colour editor, yet one that really ought to be fixed for such a high end product.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Geoff, I shot some bricks with my IQ/C1 on the PC. Appears to me that there is no trace of red oversaturation at normal exposure, but that the proportion of red becomes nonlinearly higher with underexposure. The left image is slightly overexposed and looks very like the real thing. Slightly undersaturated if anything. The right image is underexposed by 2 stops and then raised in LR. Note the proportional increase in the red component. I would guess the QE of the chip is higher in the red and this is not being well compensated in C1. Just a guess.
    Last edited by cunim; 2nd December 2013 at 10:42.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffRoss View Post
    Tim,

    This is an entirely different sort of issue, and one that is not related to a particular back, but a problem with the Capture One software, and in particular the over saturated rendering of certain reddish tones. It's not a major serious problem, as it can be overcome by corrections in the colour editor, yet one that really ought to be fixed for such a high end product.

    Regards,
    Geoff
    Geoff,

    You've uncovered, researched and confirmed an issue that deserves attention by Phase One. It's the kind of expert user feedback that only makes manufacturers better and more attentive to their customer base. As a forum member on GetDPI and a new Phase One customer, I appreciate your work on this problem, and I'm looking forward to a solution from Phase One.

    Joe
    _________________________________
    Joe Colson Photography

  39. #39
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by GeoffRoss View Post
    Tim,

    This is an entirely different sort of issue, and one that is not related to a particular back, but a problem with the Capture One software, and in particular the over saturated rendering of certain reddish tones. It's not a major serious problem, as it can be overcome by corrections in the colour editor, yet one that really ought to be fixed for such a high end product.

    Regards,
    Geoff

    On reflection I agree on both fronts: I've never had a problem with it myself but you probably have more sensitive colour vision in this part of the spectrum and I can clearly see from your examples that it looks odd.

  40. #40
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Sorry, but I am not seeing it Geoff. I went home today and ran a quick test on my brick walkway. This is the IQ180 back on the Phase DF body and 110 LS lens at f8, using the indicated body exposure of 160th at ISO 35, f8. I pulled them into C1 and they looked fine -- note they did NOT look fine until they finished rendering, and the red is over-saturated at that point in time, but that is typical -- after a few seconds they render and look proper. Anyway, I applied my basic style on import which uses Outdoor Daylight profile and bumps saturation 4 points. I returned sat to zero and did a dropper WB off the second white patch on the color checker which cooled the image down 50 K and about 2 points on tint from my style to 5130/-2.6 in Profoto color space. The center weighting of the camera under-exposed by about 1/3 stop for Profoto (typical) so I bumped it up in post to compensate. That's it.

    Here you go, basically neutral out of the cam, but properly converted to sRGB for web view --- and this is exactly how my bricks look next to my (rather sad) drought dried California lawn:



    Here is a close-up of the CC, and if you mouse over it with your dropper, you will find the grays are a few points off from each other, but still quite close, and that is a result of compressing Profoto into sRGB, not the camera profile:




    So, in conclusion, I think you must have some other equipment profile issue, or possibly the way you are converting your images to web view is improper.

    Sorry,
    Jack
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  41. #41
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Jack, I always thought it was the other way around and "Outdoor Daylight" had a larger more accurate colour space than "Flash".
    You are correct -- my mistake! I will edit and correct what I wrote above -- thanks for pointing that out!
    Jack
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  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    This is the IQ 160 noise test I did a week ago under tungsten light and WB off the second white patch up and I also see nothing off here as it represents my bathroom and the passport card about right on the money and yes my cabinets are that color. ISO 50



    and a crop



    So i am a little baffled here.
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I likewise have not noticed out-of-ordinary reds on the IQ180s coming through for testing/eval/demo. But I'm open to the possibility that there is a lurking variable not yet identified.

    Phase's color guy is one of the best I know, so I'm sure if there is something there it will be ID'd and compensated for pretty quick.

  44. #44
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Okay, here are some more examples taken yesterday morning, which clearly show what I am talking about. These results were exactly duplicated on 3 different backs, and show the same thing on three different computers, all using the latest Capture One software. I think you'll all agree, there IS a problem here.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  45. #45
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    I should have also mentioned about these images just posted that the relative image on the left is straight out of the camera and into Capture One , with the only change being the usual sharpening. The two relative images on the right have been corrected for the brick red tones and just a slight bump in the shadows to make them as close to the original colour as possible. My dealer is very expertise in the operation of Capture One, and he went through all the variables on his computer, and yet had to concede that there is an issue in the rendering of the brick red tones by Capture One

    Regards,
    Geoff

  46. #46
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    With your last set of images, you could be simply seeing the change in contrast. The "out of the camera" images have more contrast. Contrast naturally impacts saturation. You may simply be compensating for the camera contrast.

  47. #47
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Sorry, but that isn't the explanation. I could post here examples with a zero change apart from the corrected colour, and you'll still see the same sort of saturation problem. The reason for the slight, and it is slight, change in shadow is to show the scenes as close as possible to natural as I could. The saturation problem is not subtle. If it was, I never would have even mentioned this problem, but as you can see this really is an unacceptable increase in saturation within these red tones.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  48. #48
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Jack or Guy,

    Just a thought, would you like me to upload one of the RAW files so that you can play around with it yourselves.

    Regards,
    Geoff

  49. #49
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    You know that is a good idea actually. Love to see if it is doing it on my machine or in c1 that matches yours. Maybe we can narrow it down to some kind of solution. Something just looks off on your results . I know it would help me ID it better.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  50. #50
    GeoffRoss
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    Re: IQ180 with Phase One DF camera-colour issue

    Guy, please let me know if you have a mechanism within this site to load the RAW file to, or do you want me to send a link to the likes of yousendit directly to your email address.

    Regards,
    Geoff

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