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HCam-B1 with 80Mpix backs

Stefan Steib

Active member
Archivue
I don´t know which 17ts you are speaking about, the maybe 15/16 samples I have seen so far were straight as Microgrid paper.
About the definition of distortion- here is a nice one- by Zeiss:
http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_33_Distortion_EN/$File/CLN33_Distortion_Article.pdf

and here as a small sample just to see how the 17mmTS works on the Leaf Aptus II 12R (original file has 240 MB opened and is tack sharp and straight - ask Yair, he has the original file) - this is a double screenshot 1. from Capture one - to get the orange lines and then opened in CS5 and a second screenshot with screen and helplines blue from the rulers.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
Re: Capture Integration IQ180 + Schneider Lens Tests

and here some cutouts 100% from center, top right and left down border - see cigarette...... :thumbup:

regards
Stefan
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Re: Capture Integration IQ180 + Schneider Lens Tests

Now to demonstrate the extreme perspective the camera just turned to the right about 35 degrees. Tripod and head did not move ! Full image and cutouts
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
On request in the IQ 180/ Schneider lens test thread we open a new one separately. My posts from there are moved here.

More to come tomorrow.

Regards
Stefan
 

gazwas

Active member
Stefen, this will make interesting reading but don't just limit it to the IQ180/Aptus 12.

IQ160/P65+ and the Hasselblad H4D60 examples would be good also.
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Gareth
you know this is not so easy and as Doug already said such a shootout is hard to organize. We are not a dealer for those backs so I rely on support of either customers or the local dealers. The images I show are often done at the installation at customer site, or either on the Canon or PCP dealer tour that I do regularly here in Germany, I get supported by people at Canon,Phase and Leaf, and we also have good connections to Hasselblad Germany, but all these backs are on short supply and getting 5-6 of these on the same place to shoot them on the same subject is extremly difficult.
This is the reason why I am extremly interested to participate to this October event in new England with Capture integration, this will enable us to use all these backs and do what you want to see.

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial]http://www.captureintegration.com/download/CI-Workshop-Version.pdf[/FONT]

Greetings from Munich

Stefan
 
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Stefan, if you want to send me a camera & lens in HK I can certainly make time to test with a 33mp leaf back for you, plenty of straight lines here ;)

Paul
 

H3dtogo

New member
I shot this yesterday on a 39Mp CF back, using the 24mm at F11 with only shift full up 12mm, no tilt or swing. No lens cast correction, just the 24mm 12 mm shifted up. As said before, i am still very amased by the ease of operation of the camera. Viewing the large groundglass, focussing on the groundglass, being able to shoot at extreme high shutterspeeds ( wich i us with my 85mm Nikon 1,4 wide open or my 300mm 2,8 for razorthin DOF).
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
OK- here as promised the shots we did this morning with the IQ180(Thank you Christopher !!!) - nice back I have to say - so how do I convince my banker ???
there are 2 Positions we tried both with 17mm and 24mm, all shots were done with f11,5, 35 ASA and as much shift as possible.
I also have to say I did crop a bit as the original (rental)17+24mm lenses that we got cannot be modified which is a must for the 80Mpix backs- there is a plastik ring on the back of both of the lenses about 2-3mm thick and covering the electronics connectors. If this would be my lenses I´d either cut out the edges of the plastik or completely remove this cover resulting in another 3-4mm shift available without vignetting in any direction.So there is a bit of vignetting left intentionally (normally I´d remove this with photoshop in a second)
Christopher tried a whiteshot but after seeing it did not have any color cast we dropped this , the HCam-B1 simply does not need it.

So here is position 1 with the 17mm 1x whole image - 3 cutouts 100%
 
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Stefan Steib

Active member
This is Position 1 of the IQ180/HCam-B1 test with Canon TS24mm about 10mm shift upwards. f11,5 , 35 ASA
 
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mtomalty

New member
Hi Stefan
Do I understand correctly that the overall images featured in posts 10,11,12,and 13
Illustrate that the 17 and 24 ts lenses cover almost the entire iq180 sensor?

If not,what is the file size for the overall images ?

Thanks,
Mark

www.marktomalty.com
 

Christopher

Active member
The lens itself covers a lot more. The black corners you see is from a plastic cap on the back of the lens. It is not the end of the image circle.
 

gazwas

Active member
Hi Christopher, was there a lot of NR applies to these images (or heavy jpeg compression) as I'm seeing a lot of smudging of the details and then a lot of sharpening to counteract it. It's especially noticeable on the green foliage/grass in the stair crop of the first setup and in the grey metalwork/grid of the building.

I'd have thought the IQ180 would have rendered these areas better than this as my P65+ picks up more detail than that, especially on a sunny, contrasty day. Or is it that these Canon lenses aren't that great when shifted because at present if you hadn't told us it was an IQ180 they look like images out of my 1DsIII.

Great but not amazing IMO. ;)
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hello Gazwas

these are screenshots, I have also mentioned that they got a "compressed look" which differs from the impression I had when I looked at it in Capture one. The files itself did not get any noise reduction or more than the standard shaperning that 6.2.1 applies when opening it.

The 17mm was shifted several mm on the IQ180 and it is true that this leads to some softness in the extreme corners, but - as this is the only lens worldwide which even gets there I think it´s still sensational.
And the softness also depends on the extreme spheric sharpness area of the lens, which also needs to be taken into account.

The 24mm is amazing,it´s shifted 10mm on the IQ180 and this beats any other lens in that focal range, with no color cast, no chromas and nearly no light falloff.

Next time I hope I can have a set of Canon´s modified to have the plastic cover removed, am very curious for these results.
For me at the moment this is not needed with my P45+ as these slightly smaller chips don´t vignette so this is necessary only for P65+ and IQ180 and Leaf 56+80 Mpix.

Regards
Stefan
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Hi Christopher, was there a lot of NR applies to these images (or heavy jpeg compression) as I'm seeing a lot of smudging of the details and then a lot of sharpening to counteract it. It's especially noticeable on the green foliage/grass in the stair crop of the first setup and in the grey metalwork/grid of the building.

I'd have thought the IQ180 would have rendered these areas better than this as my P65+ picks up more detail than that, especially on a sunny, contrasty day. Or is it that these Canon lenses aren't that great when shifted because at present if you hadn't told us it was an IQ180 they look like images out of my 1DsIII.
If the 17TS wasn't a bit soft in the corners on a 5.2 micron 645 sensor I'd be, frankly, incredulous. This lens is significantly wider than the Rodenstock 23mm HR (which costs around US$7k).

The 1Ds III sensor is a fraction as large physically. It would take FOUR overlapping 1Ds III frames to capture the area of the image circle captured in a single IQ180 frame and would still be lower in capture resolution (since it's pixels are 6.4 rather than 5.2 pixels large).



A 17mm on a IQ180 is the equivalent of a 11mm on a 1Ds III. Show me an 11mm on a 1Ds III that is sharp at the corners and has very little geometric distortion.

Then remember that the IQ180 with the 17TS is producing an 80mp image. So if you wanted to compare to an 11mm + 1DS III you would need to uprez the 1DS III to quadruple the resolution.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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dougpeterson

Workshop Member
The files itself did not get any noise reduction or more than the standard shaperning that 6.2.1 applies when opening it.
Probably a minor language/translation thing, but it's probably most accurate to revise your wording here a tiny bit. It could be read that the file did not receive any noise reduction.

e.g. [The files received default C1 6.2.1 noise reduction and default C1 6.2.1 sharpening.]
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
OK- here as promised the shots we did this morning with the IQ180(Thank you Christopher !!!) - nice back I have to say - so how do I convince my banker ???
there are 2 Positions we tried both with 17mm and 24mm, all shots were done with f11,5, 35 ASA and as much shift as possible.
I also have to say I did crop a bit as the original (rental)17+24mm lenses that we got cannot be modified which is a must for the 80Mpix backs- there is a plastik ring on the back of both of the lenses about 2-3mm thick and covering the electronics connectors. If this would be my lenses I´d either cut out the edges of the plastik or completely remove this cover resulting in another 3-4mm shift available without vignetting in any direction.So there is a bit of vignetting left intentionally (normally I´d remove this with photoshop in a second)
Christopher tried a whiteshot but after seeing it did not have any color cast we dropped this , the HCam-B1 simply does not need it.

So here is position 1 with the 17mm 1x whole image - 3 cutouts 100%
I'll bet you $20 that if you used Apple-L (the auto levels command) on that white sheet you would have noticed slight color cast at the corners and some modest vignette towards the edges.

Clearly it's very little (if I'm right) and could surely be ignored but in some critical applications (e.g. shooting interiors at an expansive all-white gallery) it would be worth ensuring the color accuracy throughout the frame.

I'm basing this bet on our experience with 645 tilt-shift lenses (Mamiya 50mm, Hartblei 45mm TS, X-2 body with RZ lenses). While the vast majority of color-cast is caused by lens-proximity it's still possible to happen out beyond a 35mm or 645 lens mount.

Don't forget you can also use the LCC for automatic and accurate dust removal.

We can redeem the bet in New England :).
 
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