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Thread: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks...

  1. #51
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I had a Silvestri Flexi on trial for about 3 days. I did not bother reviewing it here because it was so poorly built, achieving a repeatable zero was impossible. About the best I could say for it is you can make it work if you are willing to spend time setting each shot up and confirming it is exactly the way you want it before you move on the next shot.
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    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Wouldn't it be nice to have a review on it, even though one does not like it? In order to have a complete information, for people who don't have the chance to try it out (me included), to open a discussion and to get arguments from others?

    Not a critic on you, Jack, just an idea.

    Regards,
    Thierry

    Thierry Hagenauer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I had a Silvestri Flexi on trial for about 3 days. I did not bother reviewing it here because it was so poorly built, achieving a repeatable zero was impossible. About the best I could say for it is you can make it work if you are willing to spend time setting each shot up and confirming it is exactly the way you want it before you move on the next shot.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    from today's brief outing on the Highline
    about 15mm vertical shift, cambo wrs, schneider 43, H39 back


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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    a little less shift, maybe 10mm


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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    lance and norm, with bystanders...

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I would never accept the 15mm shift.... way too soft on the top. However with 10mm the image looks very acceptable. Just have to find the limits of the lens......

    Victor

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    i thought it would be useful to compare, also the h39 back is cropped a bit compared to the 180 or 160.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i thought it would be useful to compare, also the h39 back is cropped a bit compared to the 180 or 160.
    The 160 is, I believe, the same crop factor as the P65+. It really doesn't matter as this has to do with lens limitations. These examples are, again, an example of lens limitations.

    Thanks for posting the images.......

    Victor

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    a cropped sensor does not get as far out to the edge of the image circle for the same amount of shift. I would think 10mm of shift with the H39 is more like 8mm with the full frame 160/180

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    OK, WHY in hell should the 43mm be SOFT ? With a 39MP back with 15mm shift it should be sharp. Hack even with my IQ180 it is sharp at 15mm. (Only way to much color cast.)

    The lens has a huge image circle and should be able to handle more.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Here is a quick shot of Woody from today @ our little meet-up.

    We had almost every solution represented. We had Phase One , Leaf , Hasselblad, Arca-Swiss, ALPA and Cambo!

    For a last minute get together it turned out nice.

    We first met at our offices, then proceeded to walk over to The Highline. It was myself, Woody Campbell , Norman Mcgrath and Rod Klukas (Arca-Swiss) then John Milich meet up with us over there . A few others planned to join, but could not make it at the last minute.

    It was a great day to be outside shooting. We had many folks stop by to look at what we were doing and chat with us. There was even a gentleman who worked on the sets & scenery of motion pictures and was out scouting for the remake of the movie Escape from NY.

    Most of the time I was shooting with the Arca-RM3Di w/ 47mm Schneider and IQ180. I haven't gone through all the shots , but will do shortly and post a few.

    Anyway it was a great time and look forward to more of these little get togethers. It is great way to get to meet forum members and share information. So please email me if you are in the NY, CT, PA , DC , MD, VA areas because I would like to get similar events going in these areas in the near future.

    Have a good weekend.

    Lance
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Thanks, Jack for your input on the Silvestri. It is so hard to know about equipment you've never seen or used.

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Guy - or anyone else for that matter.

    I've read this before and so far I just can't understand it. I've been using a WRS since it was first introduced and I've found the build quality to be very good. I'll admit I haven't been around Arca or Alpa much however from what I have seen I don't recall one having a particularly better build quality than another. In the end a tech body is just a piece of metal that's used to connect a lens to a back; of course it's not that simple when you include the ability to add movements. And speaking of movements, my WRS is as tight and precise today as it was when I first tried it out October 2008.

    So based on 33 months of use having it never let me down I just wonder when I read

    Don
    Hi Don.

    OK, I'm just a hillbilly but here goes...

    I love my Cambo WRS in almost every respect but I wouldn't consider it on the same level as the ARCA or ALPA in terms of engineering and precision. Especially when it comes to the shifting mechanism. The ALPA and ARCA adjustments are like micrometers and cannot be accidentally adjusted without actually turning the knobs.

    The vertical shift on my Cambo WRS is always getting accidentally lowered and there does not appear to be any way to tighten it. (At least that is what I have been told). The stops for 5.10.15mm shifts are hardly noticeable as well. I would call the shift mechanism functional but that is about it.

    That said, I wouldn't spend the extra in terms of money and weight on either the ALPA or ARCA. While I love the idea, in practice I don't think it would be worth the difference.

    Furthermore; I am not convinced that the precision of focus is all it is cracked up to be and my eyes could never focus a wide angle and 80MP back with ground glass. It could be the type of shooting I do but I just don't have problems getting adequate focus. I can't imaging turning a focus ring five times for any situation I am interested in, it sounds like a pain.

    I have found the precision of the focus on the cambo to be sufficient for my needs. Most focus problems have been more a function of the shallow DOF due to the extremely high resolution than any lack of precision on the focus ring.

    The Cambo is compact, relatively light, rugged and effective. I get what I want out of it in every respect. If the shift mechanism was tighter I wouldn't have a complaint.

    I did have some focus calibration issues early on but the good folks on this forum and Paul at Optech helped me get that ironed out. I haven't looked back since.

    Ed

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    from today's brief outing on the Highline
    about 15mm vertical shift, cambo wrs, schneider 43, H39 back

    Jlm,

    This doesn't look right. The 43XL should be much sharper that far into the image circle. You should be able to use the full 20mm of shift with the H39.

    Are you sure this is a properly calibrated lens?

    After looking at it a little closer, could this shot be front focus? Even the water tanks look too soft.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    now you have me doubting my lens! that shot was f11 and 1/60 or 1/125. pretty sure focus was set just shy of the inf stop, tripod of course. T and S set on the zero stops

    i will have to do a few tests. by the way, this is the same lens used for the CI tests


    Ed: there is no way the shifts can move without rotating the wheels and mine stay put. I also find the detents are positive. biggest problem I have is to remember to return them to zero before lining up the next shot.

    the focus rings on the lenses are not a cambo product as far as i can tell, I didn't get a chance to compare alpa to cambo in this regard, but my guess is they source them from and independent supplier

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    taken the first time out, a sample from the same lens, un-shifted


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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Hi Don.

    OK, I'm just a hillbilly but here goes...

    I love my Cambo WRS in almost every respect but I wouldn't consider it on the same level as the ARCA or ALPA in terms of engineering and precision. Especially when it comes to the shifting mechanism. The ALPA and ARCA adjustments are like micrometers and cannot be accidentally adjusted without actually turning the knobs.

    The vertical shift on my Cambo WRS is always getting accidentally lowered and there does not appear to be any way to tighten it. (At least that is what I have been told). The stops for 5.10.15mm shifts are hardly noticeable as well. I would call the shift mechanism functional but that is about it.

    That said, I wouldn't spend the extra in terms of money and weight on either the ALPA or ARCA. While I love the idea, in practice I don't think it would be worth the difference.

    Furthermore; I am not convinced that the precision of focus is all it is cracked up to be and my eyes could never focus a wide angle and 80MP back with ground glass. It could be the type of shooting I do but I just don't have problems getting adequate focus. I can't imaging turning a focus ring five times for any situation I am interested in, it sounds like a pain.

    I have found the precision of the focus on the cambo to be sufficient for my needs. Most focus problems have been more a function of the shallow DOF due to the extremely high resolution than any lack of precision on the focus ring.

    The Cambo is compact, relatively light, rugged and effective. I get what I want out of it in every respect. If the shift mechanism was tighter I wouldn't have a complaint.

    I did have some focus calibration issues early on but the good folks on this forum and Paul at Optech helped me get that ironed out. I haven't looked back since.

    Ed
    Pretty much my sentiments here as well. It works and it does the job. End of story, rather put my money in the glass.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    The vertical shift on my Cambo WRS is always getting accidentally lowered and there does not appear to be any way to tighten it. (At least that is what I have been told).
    (...)
    If the shift mechanism was tighter I wouldn't have a complaint.
    It is possible to make the gears tighter. A year ago I've asked Cambo to do exactly that and it works just fine.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Hi Don.

    OK, I'm just a hillbilly but here goes...

    I love my Cambo WRS in almost every respect but I wouldn't consider it on the same level as the ARCA or ALPA in terms of engineering and precision. Especially when it comes to the shifting mechanism. The ALPA and ARCA adjustments are like micrometers and cannot be accidentally adjusted without actually turning the knobs.

    The vertical shift on my Cambo WRS is always getting accidentally lowered and there does not appear to be any way to tighten it. (At least that is what I have been told). The stops for 5.10.15mm shifts are hardly noticeable as well. I would call the shift mechanism functional but that is about it.

    That said, I wouldn't spend the extra in terms of money and weight on either the ALPA or ARCA. While I love the idea, in practice I don't think it would be worth the difference.

    Furthermore; I am not convinced that the precision of focus is all it is cracked up to be and my eyes could never focus a wide angle and 80MP back with ground glass. It could be the type of shooting I do but I just don't have problems getting adequate focus. I can't imaging turning a focus ring five times for any situation I am interested in, it sounds like a pain.

    I have found the precision of the focus on the cambo to be sufficient for my needs. Most focus problems have been more a function of the shallow DOF due to the extremely high resolution than any lack of precision on the focus ring.

    The Cambo is compact, relatively light, rugged and effective. I get what I want out of it in every respect. If the shift mechanism was tighter I wouldn't have a complaint.

    I did have some focus calibration issues early on but the good folks on this forum and Paul at Optech helped me get that ironed out. I haven't looked back since.

    Ed
    Ed, thank you so much for your reply. I see a lot of similarities in our feelings towards the WRS. While it would be nice to get that shinny new camera my beat up old WRS has been loyal and trustworthily so I can't seem to part with it no matter what.

    While there might me others that would allow me the ability to surgically perform movements my WRS has always been there for me. I haven't noticed any accidental shift of movements on my WRS - at least where I wasn't at fault. I might not have the hearing I once had however I still have the sense of touch and haven't had any real problems finding the shift indents.

    I totally agree with you regarding the focus and also can't image turning a focus ring five times in any situation - yes it sound like a pain. But then again if everyone like only one thing we'd be living in a very dull world.

    Not sure if I remember if you did this but I dressed the little WRS up in the new wood grips and it makes a difference. The WRS looks better, feels better and it easier to shoot the occasional hand free and best of all it works better with gloves (I use fingerless gloves when shooting in old cliff dwellings and slot canyons)

    While you've summed up the feelings about the WRS well I am just slightly concerned about your only complaint; "loose" (my term) shift mechanism. My shifting mechanism remain tight with no slop in either of the movements.

    Again, thank-you for your thoughts.

    Don

    PS If you're a hillbilly then I'm a redneck!
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Pretty much my sentiments here as well. It works and it does the job. End of story, rather put my money in the glass.

    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I am very happy with my Cambo WRS. Sufficient precision for anything I have needed to do with it, compact, light enough. I'm sure the Alpa and Arca cameras represent a higher level of the machinist's art. Given the cost difference they don't represent a good choice for me and except for a few circumstances may not achieve better IQ out of great glass and a P40+ back. To each their own of course.
    I agree with everything that Don and Guy have said about this subject.
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    "the Alpa and Arca cameras represent a higher level of the machinist's art. Given the cost difference they don't represent a good choice for me"

    before buying my Arca (the main reason to go with it, was the sliding back... the second was to be able to use my lenses on both cameras...)
    i've done my math... before thinking that camera is more expensive than that one... you have to calculate the final cost, including every parts needed...

    Because, i already had parts from my F line 69... the price between cambo and arca was really similar FOR ME !

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Lance - thanks for organizing this. I'm in Maine for the weekend so i haven't had a chance to do any uploads but the picture of me illustrates the great virtue of the Alpa TC plus 35 xl combo. It really is hand holdable in daylight.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    Jlm,

    This doesn't look right. The 43XL should be much sharper that far into the image circle. You should be able to use the full 20mm of shift with the H39.

    Are you sure this is a properly calibrated lens?

    After looking at it a little closer, could this shot be front focus? Even the water tanks look too soft.
    i have the impression that it's a focus problem... no enough depth of field... the top of the building to camera distance is longer than the base of the building to camera...

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    i have the impression that it's a focus problem... no enough depth of field... the top of the building to camera distance is longer than the base of the building to camera...
    does anyone know the adapter for R series camera as the image marked.
    i search from the website of arca-shop.de and arca-swiss-magasin with no result.
    i'd like to purchase it, if you have information.
    please let me know.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Checking on this item.
    Did not realise you had 6x9 back already, as well as 4x5. mea culpa.
    Will get back to you.
    Rod
    US Representative, Arca-Swiss International
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    http://www.rodklukas.com/arca-swiss 480-755-3364
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