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Thread: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks...

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    why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks...

    a friend of mine ask me why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras ? and if i will have to make this choice again, will i stick with the RM3D ?

    So, i've send him an email with my answer (in french... ), then i thought i should share it with the community... with my bad english... sorry about that !

    First point : i've found out that focussing on a ground glass wasn't 100% accurate with wide angle lenses and digital back... especially my 35 XL...
    so, the linhof techno wasn't for me ! too bad, because you don't need to have your lenses calibrated for that camera... but you eyes gets tyred at the end of the day of shooting !

    Second point : while when the RM3D came out, Alpa claims :
    "There are camera manufacturers who are very proud e.g. of their homemade 1'800° helical mount (5x 360° = five full turns from the shortest focusing distance to "infinity"). Indeed: such a 1'800° helical mount (one for all lenses) is certainly very precise due to the fine thread. The practicability of "5x 360°" and of the corresponding special system where you have to "translate" meters/feet in a peculiar division system from e.g. 1 to 34 is another matter. One thing is absolutely correct: a precise helical mount is important - no doubt about this (do you remember the Chinese made "FOTOMAN" helical mounts? - a nightmare concerning their precision!). The original helical mounts made by Rodenstock and Schneider-Kreuznach for their lenses and used e.g. by ALPA, CAMBO, HORSEMAN and others are perfectly precise enough for their tasks and they have proved this with ten thousands of lenses."

    i've found the opposite !
    few months later they produced the HPF rings... Cambo didn't...

    source :
    http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2010/some...tml?year=&num=


    Third point : i'm the type of photographer that need ground glass or waist level for composition purpose... that's personal, some prefer Range finder, others reflex... so Alpa wasn't a choice for me, they keep on saying that a sliding back is impossible to make, because it can keeps the level of tolerance on a long run... maybe they are right, but with my modest Aptus 22, i have already shoot 35 000 pics in two and a half year, and it stills ok !

    Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

    Fifth point : i mostly shoot architecture and artworks... Arca are offering a complete system so i can share the same sliding back and all my lenses with my RM3D and a monorail F line 69 or even better M line Two

    6th point : the Rm3D can be mounted on an arca rail, the rail fits directly on all the new style Arca heads, that way, you can easily rotate around the nodal point if needed !

    7th point : for "real" stitching, it's much better when the lense doesn't move... that way, you just move the sensor to record all the part of a "real" image provide by the fixed lens ! The Rm3d is build that way, no need for extra stuff... you can make real stitching in horizontal or vertical ! You can stitch with the camera movements or with the rotaslide.

    8th point : first i didn't like the handle, but i've bought their optional part that comes between the body and the handle... that's perfect, even in hot atmosphere !

    9th point : i must confess that i don't use the view finder too much, but compare to the competitors, it is by far the best !

    Ok, Ok... now what i dislike with it...

    - with the rotaslide on, it's not easy to pack !

    - you can't shims your digital back... but you can always offset the values on the ring... so, at the end not a big deal... mine is perfect, but i wonder, if it will be perfect with my next back ! to be honest, i can't understand why leaf, Hassy and Phase one don't provide shimmings options inside the back itself !

    Conclusion :

    if i had to buy a technical camera today, will i buy a RM3D again ?
    oh yes !
    That's a personal point of view, because that camera suits MY needs very well... there's plenty of Cambo wide RS owners, Alpa owners, Sinar owners that seem happy with their cameras... it's really nice to have all this choice available !

    PS : sometimes, for my personal work, i just use the RM3D with the 55 and a more compact Kapture group sliding back... it fits in a small lowepro back pack, that way i'm traveling on a motorbike... what a freedom !

    On assignment, i still used the Rotaslide, because the binocular angle can be adapt, it's much clearer with the 35xl...

    Have a good light !
    Last edited by archivue; 9th July 2011 at 10:24. Reason: syntax error

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Interesting. I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9. That is a "killer" feature for a view camera owner.

    I asked Arca about this but no luck. I wonder why it is so hard to do? Make an R series camera that accepts 110mm lens boards, or a 110mm lens board that accepts R lenses. Everyone with an Arca view camera would be right there.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    "I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9"

    you can use Arca R lenses on the Monolith, with that adaptor !

    http://www.arca-shop.de/Fachkameras/...ml?language=en

    using the arca 110 to sinar adaptor + the previous one, you can also use your R lenses on a sinar, but from my point of view there's no point of doing it !

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    i probably would have gone with the arca (instead of the cambo) except for a few reasons:

    very limited dealer and sales support
    the rm only has one axis of tilt
    i like the fine focus but was not sold on having to use a look up table
    it is a bit larger

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    "I like my Alpa but would switch in a heartbeat if Arca had a system that would let me use lenses on both the tech camera (any of the tech cameras) and the Monolith 6x9"

    you can use Arca R lenses on the Monolith, with that adaptor !

    http://www.arca-shop.de/Fachkameras/...ml?language=en

    using the arca 110 to sinar adaptor + the previous one, you can also use your R lenses on a sinar, but from my point of view there's no point of doing it !
    Not only that, you can mount the entire RM3D body on the rail of an M 6x9, attach the bellows where the back plate attaches, and use the RM3D as the front standard!!!
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i probably would have gone with the arca (instead of the cambo) except for a few reasons:

    very limited dealer and sales support
    the rm only has one axis of tilt
    i like the fine focus but was not sold on having to use a look up table
    it is a bit larger
    The unresponsiveness from Arca-Swiss is a real concern in the U.S. It has been eight weeks since we ordered a Rm3di body, and it still has not arrived. What's worse is that we were told that it would only take 2 - 4 weeks when we ordered it.

    Last year, we purchased a Rm3d and several lenses. It also took over two months to finally receive it. Granted there are always some delays from the lens manufacturers, but this time there is no excuse since we did not order any lenses, only the body. It sounds like Arca-Swiss is responsive to its customers in France and maybe nearby in Europe, but otherwise their support must be considered unreliable, at least in the U.S. I hate to think what would happen if our camera needed to be serviced some day, and how long before we would see the camera again, and what we would be forced to shoot with while waiting. You could end up losing some of your best clients if you are not always prepared for such a scenario.

    BTW, which Cambo did you end up going with? How long did it take to receive it? Overall, how has it been working out for you in the field? Are you confident in Cambo support and responsiveness?

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Capture integration was my source for the Cambo WRS and lenses. camera was shipped in two weeks, one lens is four weeks, the others took a month or two, due to slow production, not by cambo but by Schneier and Rodenstock.

    i find the camera very well made and it works very well indeed, the major limitation being the H39 back quirks when not on an H body and processing in Phocus when you don't have lens or shutter data normally supplied by the H body. I bought three lenses 43,70,120, all with t/s mounts, plus the back has shift in two axes, so this offers more control than any other compact tech unit.

    I have had no contact with Cambo support, but CI is a great resource

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Capture Integration is a really nice source... they sell both Arca and Cambo...

    http://www.captureintegration.com/20...a-swiss-rm3di/

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    On the second point - alpa hpf rings - the hpf rings deal with the resolution of the focus scale, not the resolution of the helicoid. Alpa's statement is about right in my experience.

    The RM3D is clearly the best choice if working off of a ground glass is important to you. I've found using a ground glass with a digital back frustrating because even earlier generation backs out resolved the ground glass.

    I can order an obscure Alpa doodad from Jeff Hirsh at Fotocare in New York on a Thursday, Alpa ships on Monday and it's in the shop on Wednesday.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    Capture integration was my source for the Cambo WRS and lenses. camera was shipped in two weeks, one lens is four weeks, the others took a month or two, due to slow production, not by cambo but by Schneier and Rodenstock.

    i find the camera very well made and it works very well indeed, the major limitation being the H39 back quirks when not on an H body and processing in Phocus when you don't have lens or shutter data normally supplied by the H body. I bought three lenses 43,70,120, all with t/s mounts, plus the back has shift in two axes, so this offers more control than any other compact tech unit.

    I have had no contact with Cambo support, but CI is a great resource
    In the end considering price, size and functionality I will probably get the Cambo. I have shot all of them and each system has many benefits. But it really is a frame between lens and back. The Cambo does it all but the build and precision is not Arca or Alpa. Than again I'm more interested in the functionality than the build quality. I need rise and fall mostly but along with the ability to stitch at the same time. Plus you can get Tilt as a option on the glass. Costs are a main concern as well since I want maybe a 28 which is pretty expensive. I'm really after below my 55 LS lens which matched the 60 Schneider pretty well in Dougs test which I was there doing my own testing
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I should add this tech kit is to pinpoint a area of my work so it's not my primary system which is the DF and it's lenses. So maybe the most lenses I would have is 2. This is a very specific need for me and landscape work is not really one of them. The end of the day landscape work is personal not client driven.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    "I can order an obscure Alpa doodad from Jeff Hirsh at Fotocare in New York on a Thursday, Alpa ships on Monday and it's in the shop on Wednesday."

    Same with Paul at Optechs Digital in Seattle. The problem is that he expects you to pay for the doodads.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Now in the end the Arca has the most going for it but it's big and even though the focus system maybe one of the best. It's just not my style. I like copal shutter style shooting but this goes back to my days shooting 8x10 and 4x5 film. It's that old man syndrome familiarity I still like. But that is just me
    As many love the Arca style
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Thanks for the information about adapters to use Arca lenses across Monolith/tech platforms. Looks like a great system (love using the tech camera as a front) and I was all sorts of happy until I remembered why Arca told me it is not possible.

    My view camera lenses are in Rollei shutters. Too big. I want a tech camera that can mount and focus lensboards. We don' need no steenkin helicals. Little joke.

    The IQ series may change how I handle tethered shooting and I need to gain some experience with that before reassessing the single-platform approach. In the meantime, I am not suffering too badly and I will ask my Arca dealer to loan me an RM3D just to play with for a day.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    Capture Integration is a really nice source... they sell both Arca and Cambo...
    [/URL]
    Yes, they may be an Arca reseller, but it does not change the huge delays in actually getting the equipment from Arca-Swiss. To us, service is measured by how quickly someone can get you a piece of equipment, especially a replacement in an emergency. We are already customers of Capture Integration, who have done a superb job with their support for our Phase One equipment. However, the availability of Arca-Swiss R-cameras and lenses here is nowhere near the same level.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the Sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

    An excellent reason not buy an artec if I ever heard one!

    happy to hear that you are comfortable with your choice of gear happy shooting.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    a friend of mine ask me why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras ? and if i will have to make this choice again, will i stick with the RM3D ?

    So, i've send him an email with my answer (in french... ), then i thought i should share it with the community... with my bad english... sorry about that !

    First point : i've found out that focussing on a ground glass wasn't 100% accurate with wide angle lenses and digital back... especially my 35 XL...
    so, the linhof techno wasn't for me ! too bad, because you don't need to have your lenses calibrated for that camera... but you eyes gets tyred at the end of the day of shooting !

    Second point : while when the RM3D came out, Alpa claims :
    "There are camera manufacturers who are very proud e.g. of their homemade 1'800° helical mount (5x 360° = five full turns from the shortest focusing distance to "infinity"). Indeed: such a 1'800° helical mount (one for all lenses) is certainly very precise due to the fine thread. The practicability of "5x 360°" and of the corresponding special system where you have to "translate" meters/feet in a peculiar division system from e.g. 1 to 34 is another matter. One thing is absolutely correct: a precise helical mount is important - no doubt about this (do you remember the Chinese made "FOTOMAN" helical mounts? - a nightmare concerning their precision!). The original helical mounts made by Rodenstock and Schneider-Kreuznach for their lenses and used e.g. by ALPA, CAMBO, HORSEMAN and others are perfectly precise enough for their tasks and they have proved this with ten thousands of lenses."

    i've found the opposite !
    few months later they produced the HPF rings... Cambo didn't...

    source :
    http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2010/some...tml?year=&num=


    Third point : i'm the type of photographer that need ground glass or waist level for composition purpose... that's personal, some prefer Range finder, others reflex... so Alpa wasn't a choice for me, they keep on saying that a sliding back is impossible to make, because it can keeps the level of tolerance on a long run... maybe they are right, but with my modest Aptus 22, i have already shoot 35 000 pics in two and a half year, and it stills ok !

    Forth point : in the field of architecture photography, it happens some times that a tripod can't be used for one shot... so the sinar Artech wasn't an option also for my use !

    Fifth point : i mostly shoot architecture and artworks... Arca are offering a complete system so i can share the same sliding back and all my lenses with my RM3D and a monorail F line 69 or even better M line Two

    6th point : the Rm3D can be mounted on an arca rail, the rail fits directly on all the new style Arca heads, that way, you can easily rotate around the nodal point if needed !

    7th point : for "real" stitching, it's much better when the lense doesn't move... that way, you just move the sensor to record all the part of a "real" image provide by the fixed lens ! The Rm3d is build that way, no need for extra stuff... you can make real stitching in horizontal or vertical ! You can stitch with the camera movements or with the rotaslide.

    8th point : first i didn't like the handle, but i've bought their optional part that comes between the body and the handle... that's perfect, even in hot atmosphere !

    9th point : i must confess that i don't use the view finder too much, but compare to the competitors, it is by far the best !

    Ok, Ok... now what i dislike with it...

    - with the rotaslide on, it's not easy to pack !

    - you can't shims your digital back... but you can always offset the values on the ring... so, at the end not a big deal... mine is perfect, but i wonder, if it will be perfect with my next back ! to be honest, i can't understand why leaf, Hassy and Phase one don't provide shimmings options inside the back itself !

    Conclusion :

    if i had to buy a technical camera today, will i buy a RM3D again ?
    oh yes !
    That's a personal point of view, because that camera suits MY needs very well... there's plenty of Cambo wide RS owners, Alpa owners, Sinar owners that seem happy with their cameras... it's really nice to have all this choice available !

    PS : sometimes, for my personal work, i just use the RM3D with the 55 and a more compact Kapture group sliding back... it fits in a small lowepro back pack, that way i'm traveling on a motorbike... what a freedom !

    On assignment, i still used the Rotaslide, because the binocular angle can be adapt, it's much clearer with the 35xl...

    Have a good light !

    Are these Martin Luther's theses for digital MF photography ? ? ?

    I think it is vital for this forum to prevent an excessive religious war about the pro's and con's of thechnical MF cameras with digital backs as well as we should not run into advertising for any product .
    I declare the MF technical camera bazar open ! ! !
    NO NO NO .
    In the end it is all about the images and not about 0.002mm for focusing .
    Remember .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Apart from the practical aspect of a needed feature, for example, shifts, there are only two criteria folks use buying cameras.

    1. They think it is cool.

    2. They can afford it.

    The technical justifications are simply used for the family CFO and gear threads.

    Actually, the "precise" helicoid focus "war" I find it just a marketing tool for the camera companies mostly playing on the "fears" of gear addicts not having the "best." At least until anyone can come up with the numbers in real terms justifying them. And until this point, no one has.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Apart from the practical aspect of a needed feature, for example, shifts, there are only two criteria folks use buying cameras.

    1. They think it is cool.

    2. They can afford it.

    I'm not sure the second item (2. They can afford it.) comes into play!

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    That's the reason why I did not want to say anything, although there would have been a lot to, since so much written against Alpa which is not true or incomplete.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Are these Martin Luther's theses for digital MF photography ? ? ?

    I think it is vital for this forum to prevent an excessive religious war about the pro's and con's of thechnical MF cameras with digital backs as well as we should not run into advertising for any product .
    I declare the MF technical camera bazar open ! ! !
    NO NO NO .
    In the end it is all about the images and not about 0.002mm for focusing .
    Remember .

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Guy - or anyone else for that matter.

    I've read this before and so far I just can't understand it. I've been using a WRS since it was first introduced and I've found the build quality to be very good. I'll admit I haven't been around Arca or Alpa much however from what I have seen I don't recall one having a particularly better build quality than another. In the end a tech body is just a piece of metal that's used to connect a lens to a back; of course it's not that simple when you include the ability to add movements. And speaking of movements, my WRS is as tight and precise today as it was when I first tried it out October 2008.

    So based on 33 months of use having it never let me down I just wonder when I read
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The Cambo does it all but the build and precision is not Arca or Alpa.


    Don

    The above in no way should be considered as any attempt in taking away from archive's original pointing out his reason for choosing and enjoying the RM3D. Bottom line it fits him which in the end is what its all about.
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Don the Cambo is very good and why I will probably buy it. We have to remember it's much cheaper to buy the Cambo too. With that the build is very good but if you want a milling engineers dream than Arca and Alpa have that but they do cost more. In the end I would say Arca gets the tilt since it's on the body and ALL lenses. Alpa gets the size and nice feel ( I want small too). The Cambo rides the middle it can functionally do what both can at a better body price. I like all three to be honest and I also have not bought anything yet and I'm going though my general points of my homework for myself. I want to buy a body not extra options also. BTW I like shooting the Cambo but I have no allegiance to any of them. I'm just looking for a functional tool I can work with and the cost is low. Someone wants me to be there poster child than send me one. Its just that simple. There all over hyped in marketing so what else is new. People love there Alpa's and Arca's great, I just want something that works functionally for me and gives me what I need at a good cost. Put any name on it, it certainly won't matter to me at all. I don't buy names I buy working gear that I hope is bullet proof.

    I should add for clarity on which models I am comparing against for myself the Arca RM3D the Alpa STC and the WRS. I know some models can do more things like the Alpa Max and some less like the RM2D which is another one I like for the size but no Tilt.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Jurgen and Shashin - you guys got it right.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Folks, I do not know why a "war" of sorts seems to have started around tech camera body choices. I have said virtually every time I write about them, that it is a selection of trade-offs -- and most importantly ALL are capable of creating outstanding IMAGES!

    Bottom line is we have price v operational convenience v absolute precision v movement choices v set-up choices v accessory availability v size and weight v a dozen other criteria.

    I think it is certainly fair for anybody to claim they chose brand X for reasons A, B and C, and I think it is equally fair for others to say, I chose brand Y because I didn't like D, E and F about brand X. It is that type of dialog that will help others make informed about what features are best for THEM going forward. We should be grateful we have more than a few choices, should we not?

    IMHO what counts is the resultant image -- and if your system helps you get to one in an efficient way for you, you've clearly made the right choice for YOU.

    Cheers,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I have to agree with Jack. I have clearly stayed out of these discussions since I have not bought one yet but used all three numerous times. I posted here and its painfully obvious to me that I can't talk openly about any of them on what decisions i need to make for myself. Folks this brand war **** needs to end and end today. This does NO one any good as we ALL have different needs and wants not to mention different budgets. Also i am just going to say this because that is who i am is a very honest blunt person. If i can't talk openly on my own forum than we have a very serious problem because I could not be any more neutral on this particular subject but i certainly want to hear of each system so I can make my own choices , now just think of the guy that is just starting out in my same shoes. He's dead before he even starts to read these threads. We need the push for one brand over the other to stop and also our commercial venders to stay within the context of the specs. of each brand. I say this because lately I have been cringing here reading some of the posts. Not sure this is the GetDPI way in my heart.

    Also GetDPI is a completely different forum than many out there, keep reminding yourself of that PLEASE
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    To Guy's last point, what we really want is to be a credible resource on ALL gear choices for our readers, not an arena of debate.
    Jack
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ....Also GetDPI is a completely different forum than many out there, keep reminding yourself of that PLEASE
    Don't need to remind me, Guy. Any self-respecting enabler knows that it's all about that warm feeling inside from the new acquisition of any/all medium format digital platforms and/or mfdb and related accessories.... and sharing those experiences...



    ken

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    i hadn't seen it as a brand war. quite a bit of brand specific info has been presented

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i hadn't seen it as a brand war. quite a bit of brand specific info has been presented

    I'm in agreement.

    Unless I missed something I fail to see where this has turned into a war of who has the best. What I have seen is a discussion clarifying the various merits of the systems. I feel most will agree that there is simply not one size fits all system of any type.

    This thread was started by an individual stating the reasons why his system works best for him. The follow-up has been for the most a civil discussion of the original thoughts as well as additional clarification of the many ideas shared.

    I feel that should this same thread have been on any other forum the result would have been much different. Kudos to the great family and friends here at GetDpi.
    Don Libby
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Don the Cambo is very good and why I will probably buy it. We have to remember it's much cheaper to buy the Cambo too. With that the build is very good but if you want a milling engineers dream than Arca and Alpa have that but they do cost more. In the end I would say Arca gets the tilt since it's on the body and ALL lenses. Alpa gets the size and nice feel ( I want small too). The Cambo rides the middle it can functionally do what both can at a better body price. I like all three to be honest and I also have not bought anything yet and I'm going though my general points of my homework for myself. I want to buy a body not extra options also. BTW I like shooting the Cambo but I have no allegiance to any of them. I'm just looking for a functional tool I can work with and the cost is low. Someone wants me to be there poster child than send me one. Its just that simple. There all over hyped in marketing so what else is new. People love there Alpa's and Arca's great, I just want something that works functionally for me and gives me what I need at a good cost. Put any name on it, it certainly won't matter to me at all. I don't buy names I buy working gear that I hope is bullet proof.

    I should add for clarity on which models I am comparing against for myself the Arca RM3D the Alpa STC and the WRS. I know some models can do more things like the Alpa Max and some less like the RM2D which is another one I like for the size but no Tilt.
    Guy - thanks for the clarification in your response. I've heard similar and felt that it needed to be clarified.

    When I researched going to a tech camera it was down to Cambo and another company with Cambo winning out for several points. I've found that while Cambo is less expensive it nevertheless offers (me) system that is well manufactured, precise and durable for what I need it to do.

    I like the looks of the Arca as well as the Alpa and Linhof systems. I'm a huge gear slut and proud of it. As soon as the WRS stops working for me I'll jump ship to something that will sooner than a rat jumping off a burning ship.

    Take a good look around - who else has been discussing the pros and cons of using a tech camera like we here have? I feel we offer much more information in one place than any other forum.

    Off the soapbox and back to work...


    Don
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I agree with Don I have not felt this thread as being too much in the direction of a brand war. I am currently contemplating the purchase of a techical camera system, and have found these threads quite helpful. I do think it is good to be cautious about not letting "my brand is better than yours creep it", and to stress the great strengths technical cameras have to offer to some who are inclined in that direction. Hopefully, the cautionary concerns will be taken in that light, but not be repressive on constructive comment. This thread has helped me remain open minded as I continue my pursuit of this topic, and yet placed emphasis on the best traditions of GetDpi. Charles

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    We all have a responsibility to maintain the cutlure of the forum as it was originally established. Both Jack and Guy have worked hard to foster a good culture in here and have many good people interested in participating in the forums.

    I am sure we are all better off being able to access and tap into a broad range of experience in the forum - I know I am!

    There are differences however in the ability of people to access and choose depending on where in the world they live and which companies/dealers represent particular products in those countries.

    Something that is often overlooked in these discussions.

    Personally I find it interesting to note that products from Sinar do not feature highly in the forum - but I suspect that Sinar is not well represenrted in the US.

    Other forums with a more European participant bias show Sinar much more prominently than in GetDpi for example.

    Only a few years ago - very ( very) few in here had heard of Alpa or understood the advantages of using a MFD back on one of these cameras matched to Schneider or Rodenstock - today there are a lot more users and a lot more knowledge.

    People should take into account local differences in terms of availability and service and price in the total value equaiton. What is a no brainer in the US may be the direct opposite in Australia - because of local pricing servicing differences.

    I can understand the strong Phase One brand in the US amongst hobby or serious amatuer users - you are fortunate to be able to access a number of high quality high service capability dealers over there - however in many other countries the same does not apply. So other choices have to be made and are made.

    IF we are talking a level playing field with currency adjusted same pricing and availability for all products - ie a true global market many discussions would be different - I am sure.

    Regarding this discussion - my view is that the Sinar artec is easilly the best system for me ( which means you guys are silly considering anythign eklse!!! ) Since I just ordered one and it is on its way into my hot little sweaty hands - I would say that wouldnt I?

    It isnt about the photograph by teh way - it is about the FUN!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Peter well said actually and very correct as well. The US and Europe and such have very different service , support and sales not to mention product preferences. For example Hassy and Phase are a big part of the US market, Sinar is not but a very favorite brand in Europe for example. So yes even though this forum is pretty diverse in where folks are from it does have a slight slant more to US market. Also I should have brought up the marketing plays a big role. We just don't hear about every product. Lets say lighting for example. Profoto is obviously the biggest brand but there is Broncolor, Balcar etc as well. Although they all sell in the US , Profoto seems to have the biggest share here.

    Great observations.

    BTW I WANT full review posted within 1 week on the on your Artec. ROTFLMAO

    Good luck my friend
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    The Sinar arctec is really nice and I considered buying it for a long time. It's just not the best tool for me. ( limited lens choice and more important if it hasn't changed, the tripod mount is not centered.)

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Guy - totally agree on marketing of ALL sorts of products. Dont get me started on the prices we have to pay down here for profoto or bronocolor!! and I PROMISE I will do a full review of teh artec for the forum.

    Christopher - totally agree on the issue of uncentered tripod positioning - it was anegative factor I thought lond hard on - because the work around for panned nodal type panorams will require teh use of additonal slides from RRS or someone to get nodal point swivel..

    However my main interest is in rectlinear stitched panorams anyway - I am no big fan of the curved look of typical panorams.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    However my main interest is in rectlinear stitched panorams anyway - I am no big fan of the curved look of typical panorams.
    Peter, you should also try autopano, planar mode is quite remarkable. I can't wait to try stiching a few recliner panos with no quality loss and then run those through auto pano!!

    Paul

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    While we are on the Arca-Swiss subject, Rod Klukas will be visiting us here at Digital Transitions in NYC this Friday, July 15.

    We are planning to go out and do some shooting around the city, possibly at The Highline .

    If any members would like to come along we will have a R3Mdi/IQ180 and variety of lenses.

    Woody is planning on coming along too and I am sure he will have his ALPA with hims as well.

    Please let me know if your in the area and I can share the details with you.

    Would be great to get to meet more NY members and allow you to handle the gear we are discussing.

    Looking forward to it.

    Lance
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    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Hi Lance,

    Are you saying that you will actually have RM3di units for sale there, on the spot? Or will you and Rod just take orders for the camera for people to wait? BTW, Rod took my order for an Rm3di 8 weeks ago, and I am still waiting for it.

    David

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by David Klepacki View Post
    Hi Lance,

    Are you saying that you will actually have RM3di units for sale there, on the spot? Or will you and Rod just take orders for the camera for people to wait? BTW, Rod took my order for an Rm3di 8 weeks ago, and I am still waiting for it.

    David
    It is ONE of our demo units that we ordered a while ago that is being delivered this week. Even though Arca-Swiss has better representation now here in the US they need to start working on their delivery times. I am hoping that we get our additional Arca-Swiss gear prior to them taking vacation next month (similar to other European suppliers!).

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    The fact that the Arca-Swiss has a built in Helical could be a tipping factor for me. I have seen evidence of too many lenses from both Alpa and Cambo that show misalignment - enough so that at f11 the sharpness from left to right does not match. A contributor to this could be the helical and if Arca manufactures the built in helical to very tight tolerances that potential misalignment would/could be eliminated. I have not seen any images from an Arca so all of this is conjecture at this point. My interest, though, is piqued.

    Victor
    Last edited by vjbelle; 12th July 2011 at 12:51.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    There's been quite a variance in when we receive items from Arca Swiss. Some orders have been completely fulfilled within 4 weeks, others have taken nearly 3 months.

    We have had an existing inventory order of a lot of camera bodies, finders, lenses, etc. The camera bodies have left as soon as they are received, but as of last week, we still had a few lenses and many miscellaneous items sitting on the shelf - compendium shades, adapter plates, lensboards, even the board for mounting RM3Di lenses on Arca Swiss view cameras.

    To be sure, some of the delays have been at the hands of Schneider and Rodenstock. Other times, manufacturing ramps up and orders that were placed 4 weeks ago get shipped at the same time as orders placed 8 weeks ago.

    The communication has gotten slightly better, but it is best to ask for specifics whenever checking eta.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
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    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    There's been quite a variance in when we receive items from Arca Swiss. Some orders have been completely fulfilled within 4 weeks, others have taken nearly 3 months.
    Steve,

    Have you already received any orders for Rm3di bodies that you placed after May 16?

    David

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I'll try and make it lance, what time?

    if i show up, will bring a representation of the underdog...Cambo, and maybe my i-phone thingy..

    hi to woody! will no doubt be showing off the H60 firmware results (if he can carry all that gear!)

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    While all this is very frustrating waiting for Arca to fulfil orders I find it strangely reassuring also that my camera is being made by an old fashioned engineering company that take pride and care in everything they manufacture. I say this an Arca ML2 user who's 2 week delivery was much, much longer in the end.

    I'd much prefer my camera to have been designed and manufactured to very exacting standards be men who take pride in their work rather than bow down to pressure to rush things out of the door and who when they design a new product (D4 anyone) they ignore promised release schedules in order to get the finished product right straight out of the gate rather then letting users feedback find the faults (Phase One).

    I'm interested in a RM3di to compliment my ML2 and I expect it to take a while if I order one as they are not mass produced items like TV's and washing machines.

    Just my humble opinion. :sleep006:

  45. #45
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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    I'll try and make it lance, what time?

    if i show up, will bring a representation of the underdog...Cambo, and maybe my i-phone thingy..

    hi to woody! will no doubt be showing off the H60 firmware results (if he can carry all that gear!)
    We are looking to meet up at out offices at 1:00. We are located at 35 west 35th St -4th floor. We will spend a few minutes getting acquainted then head out to The Highline. If you can not make it to the office but want to meet up call my cell 610 496 5586 and I'll let you know where we are.

    Please bring your equipment if you would like. I just thought this would be a great way for those in the area to check out the new Arca and IQ , and shoot it in a nice environment. We will have a wide range of lenses.

    I want this to be more of a 'meet-up' and not a 'shoot-out' .

    It's also a great opportunity for the NY area members to get together and put some faces to the posts.

    Please let me know via email if you plan on joining us [email protected].

    Lance

    Bring some cf cards to take away some files.
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    While all this is very frustrating waiting for Arca to fulfil orders I find it strangely reassuring also that my camera is being made by an old fashioned engineering company that take pride and care in everything they manufacture. I say this an Arca ML2 user who's 2 week delivery was much, much longer in the end.
    No one is questioning the engineering excellence of the Arca products here.

    The issue with them is about how they treat their customers and the integrity of their sales people. Being told that you can purchase something from them with a delivery of 2 - 4 weeks, and then not hearing from them after 8 weeks after placing an order would be considered unprofessional by any standard, in any business.

    How difficult is it to pick up the phone or write an email to the customer to explain any delays? I do not think that is too much to ask. Yet, this does not happen with Arca-Swiss, at least in the U.S.

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    "How difficult is it to pick up the phone or write an email to the customer to explain any delays?"

    Do we know for sure that Arca has a phone or email access?

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Yes, they do

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    Peter, you should also try autopano, planar mode is quite remarkable. I can't wait to try stiching a few recliner panos with no quality loss and then run those through auto pano!!

    Paul
    Thanks Paul - I will check it out!

    Pete

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    Re: why did i choose the Arca RM3D over the others technical cameras... a friend asks

    I am a little surprised that no one has talked about the Silvestri Bicam, especially with the Flexi-Maxi bellows. Have people had bad experiences with this camera?

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