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Thread: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

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    Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Considering 645 alternative platforms to my trusty Hasselblad 501cm for my 50, 100, 120 & 250 lenses. Possibles include Contax, Mamiya, H1or Pentax with adaptor. Why?... Increased versatility and perhaps also image quality with addition of a digital back, inclusive metering, easier handheld use and the ability to use the faster 110/2 or 150/2.8. I have often considered the FF DSLR alternative but still baulk at the jump. The 203FE might also do but is expensive as is probably the H1. I saw the Mamiya with Leaf Aptus 22 ebayed for just over 5 thou yesterday and thought that would probably be my current biggest stretch. I like my Zeiss lenses most after using Leica R, Fuji, Mam RZ and 7 in the past and will stick with them, but probably include a body-matched AF lens for general/quicker/easier use.

    Wondering what you guys with all the real experience think. Thank you.

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    I assume that using these lenses with adapters means you must manually stop down the aperture. You will need to keep the aperture fully open to help with manual focus and stop down for every shot (or at least until you want to check focus again). I've done this years ago with a Canon 5D and some Leica and Contax lenses. It worked but it was quite cumbersome. I would definitely consider selling your lenses and getting a more complete outfit which will be more enjoyable to use in the end. I understand that you like your Zeiss lenses but Contax 645 lenses are also Zeiss, and AF as well. Have you tried them?

    Another possibility is to get a Sinar back with an adapter for your 501 and an adapter for another platform such as Contax 645. That way you can slowly build up second platform while still using the Hasselblad lenses the way nature intended, and use the same digital back on both.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    You are probably already aware of this, but there are digital backs available for your V-series camera. Newer backs are over your budget, but if you look for older backs, you may find some that fit the bill.

    If you want to look at a different camera system, I'd highly recommend the Contax. Their Zeiss lineup is great, every lens has AF, and the bodies can be had for relatively low cost. If you like traditional knobs and physical controls, the camera is a pleasure to operate. Again, I am not up to speed on pricing for digital backs, but assume there are also older backs available for a cheaper price. As a bonus, there is an adapter to mount V lenses (commonly the 110/2) to the Contax (MAM-1). Stop-down metering, of course, as Graham points out.

    Best of luck!

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Thanks, Graham...Yes, I had a Contax system a few years ago...thought I'd stay more with film then so thought 6x6 would be better and returned to Hasselblad. I did think about getting the 80 with a kit, turn the 100 & 120 into a C120, the 50 into C35, play with the 250(sa) on an adaptor and ponder a bit more on it before letting it go.
    I'll look into the Sinar otion also.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Whoops! Thanks also Brad...AF not on the 120 though, to be completely correct.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    ...and also wanted to ask about digital backs...are the Leaf Aptus 22 or Phase One P25 good enough to keep ahead of full frame digital quality?

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    ...and also wanted to ask about digital backs...are the Leaf Aptus 22 or Phase One P25 good enough to keep ahead of full frame digital quality?
    As long as you're not looking for high ISO, anything over 200, but your tolerance might be different. Even the lowly ZD that I first got beat the snot out of my 1DsIII.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    ...and also wanted to ask about digital backs...are the Leaf Aptus 22 or Phase One P25 good enough to keep ahead of full frame digital quality?
    With the Leaf and your V system you do not need to press a button to wake up the back and then fire you shutter release (a 2 step process virtually unusable for hand held).

    I used my V system with great success with a Leaf Aptus 22. Here are some images that are just sharp as can be:
    http://www.rgaphoto.com/sierras/cont...ER2_large.html
    (501C/M with 180f4)
    http://www.rgaphoto.com/sierras/cont...TER_large.html
    501C/M with 250 and 2Xe
    http://www.rgaphoto.com/sierras/cont...TER_large.html
    501C/M and 80mm 2.8

    Also IMO you don't need metering. The histogram is easy to work with. Street photography may be problematic.

    My recommend would be to get an Aptus 22 and use it with your current system. You most likely will be pleasantly surprised.

    Good luck,
    Bob

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    With the Leaf and your V system you do not need to press a button to wake up the back and then fire you shutter release (a 2 step process virtually unusable for hand held)
    With the V and Phase One and CFV backs do you need to go through the two button press?

    I'm considering getting a back for my V system one of these days and the two button press is something I did not know about and certainly a deal breaker for me as. Hand held shooting is a must.

    Thanks.
    pbase.com/dorigatti

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    With the Leaf and your V system you do not need to press a button to wake up the back
    Same goes for the Sinar eMotion backs.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by dorigatti View Post
    With the V and Phase One and CFV backs do you need to go through the two button press?

    I'm considering getting a back for my V system one of these days and the two button press is something I did not know about and certainly a deal breaker for me as. Hand held shooting is a must.

    Thanks.
    Yes with Phase backs. I don't think so (but have never used one) with the CFV back...

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by dorigatti View Post
    With the V and Phase One and CFV backs do you need to go through the two button press?

    I'm considering getting a back for my V system one of these days and the two button press is something I did not know about and certainly a deal breaker for me as. Hand held shooting is a must.

    Thanks.
    The Hasselblad CFV backs are specifically made for the V cameras. They are the ONLY digital backs that do NOT require a sync cord from the lens sync port to the digital back. They look, feel and operate just like a V film back ... no waking up is needed.

    In addition, the Hasselblad Phocus RAW processing software has CA and distortion corrections for all your Zeiss lenses programmed in.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by dorigatti View Post
    With the V and Phase One and CFV backs do you need to go through the two button press?

    I'm considering getting a back for my V system one of these days and the two button press is something I did not know about and certainly a deal breaker for me as. Hand held shooting is a must.

    Thanks.

    Hi Dorigatti -

    On Hasselblad cameras you do not need a wake up. You do need a sync cable from back to lens (miniphone to pc sync), but you do not need to do anything other than press the release of the Hasselblad. One shot.

    A used Mamiya AFD-II/III or Phase One AF might be worth considering, since they take any digital back made for Mamiya mount, also film backs, and not just the Hassleblad CF lenses, but also the FE lenses (requires an adapter). And you can find older inexpensive Mamiya lenses easily (we have them new in the box in our eStore starting at $299).


    Steve Hendrix
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    ...and also wanted to ask about digital backs...are the Leaf Aptus 22 or Phase One P25 good enough to keep ahead of full frame digital quality?
    If you look at these you should also take a look at the Leaf Aptus 65 and Phase One P30+, and do look at the P25+ rather than P25 since for Phase One the "+" backs are newer and per memory with improved image quality than non "+" backs (or someone please correct me).

    The Aptus 65 and P30+ backs have one newer generation of sensors than Aptus 22 and P25. While they at low ISO should perform about as well they are capable of perhaps one stop higher ISO. While the Aptus 22 and P25 are 48x36mm sensors (which are already crops of 645), the Aptus 65 and P30+ are 44x33mm sensors. Thus both are crops and the difference to the smaller crop is little, but because of them having smaller crop you may in fact find that they are lower in price.

    Aptus 65 is same sensor as Aptus-II 6 and DM28 and same identical sensor except smaller crop of Aptus 75, Aptus-II 7, DM33.

    Next step would be Leaf Aptus-II 10R which has the rotating sensor. That one is one generation newer sensor still, and... in frankness it does not hurt to ask what deal you can negotiate on such one. The rotating sensor works great, I prior had Aptus 65 and recent upgraded to Hy6 with Afi-II 12. It matches the brain on a 6x6 camera; IDEAL.

    The Leaf;s above utilized sensors from Dalsa and which gives an arguably better image quality, or more "film like" image quality. Since the P25, P30 backs also newer Phase One backs uses sensors from Dalsa.

    Do buy from a Leaf, Phase One or Hasselblad agent, since they will give you support and in future they can offer you a better upgrade. Not sure if they accept the DM backs as trade in later or not...

    If you go the route of Mamiya/PhaseOne camera, the DF feature a beeb as focus confirmation while the AFDIII/AF feature a circular confirmation light which is on during a focus travel during which accurate focus is in middle of. Thus more convenience with the DF unless you normally shoot stepped down. If you consider the Hassy V lenses for the 200 series, then you will need to go e.g. Mamiya since there is problem making at least Leaf backs work on 200 series cameras.

    If you look for a Hassy V to Mamiya adapter, I have one for sale here on GetDpi, have a look. +

    I hope above helps.

    Regards
    Anders

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    Whoops! Thanks also Brad...AF not on the 120 though, to be completely correct.
    You are quite right--I stand corrected.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    The Hasselblad CFV backs are specifically made for the V cameras. They are the ONLY digital backs that do NOT require a sync cord from the lens sync port to the digital back. They look, feel and operate just like a V film back ... no waking up is needed.

    In addition, the Hasselblad Phocus RAW processing software has CA and distortion corrections for all your Zeiss lenses programmed in.

    -Marc
    But there is a 1.3 crop factor. With an Aptus 22 there is only a 1.1 crop factor; your 50mm lens is still pretty much a 50, not a 65...

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Are the Leaf and PhaseOne backs camera-specific? What is involved in adapting to another camera? My guess is that unless there are camera-specific adaptor plates, it would be a trip to the manufacturer and some dollars, right?

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    Are the Leaf and PhaseOne backs camera-specific? What is involved in adapting to another camera? My guess is that unless there are camera-specific adaptor plates, it would be a trip to the manufacturer and some dollars, right?
    They come from the manufacturer configured to fit on specific cameras (V cameras, Mamiyas, etc.). If you wish to change a back from, let's say a Mamiya to a V compatible configuration, AND the back is out of warranty OR you are not the original purchaser (there may be some wiggle room there), then you pay to convert.

    Bottom line: buy a back already configured to fit your camera.

    That is my understanding...

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    Are the Leaf and PhaseOne backs camera-specific?
    Yes, the mounts are fixed.

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    What is involved in adapting to another camera?
    This is not changeable by the user with Leaf or Phase. The only good news there is that a Hasselblad V mount first not only the Hasselblad V cameras, but various view cameras as well, if fitted with a Hasselblad V mount. Most mounts can be made to work with a view camera if the view camera has the right fitting. The Mamiya 645 mount can also fit via an adapter on a Mamiya RZ67. That's pretty much it.

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    My guess is that unless there are camera-specific adaptor plates, it would be a trip to the manufacturer and some dollars, right?
    Correct. I'd check with a dealer beforehand, as one friend of mine paid $4K to change a Phase mount so it can be pretty expensive. If you do buy a new back then you can pay an extra premium which allows you to change the mount once over a given period. Example: I just paid €2K for a Leaf gold package with my new back which extended the warranty to 3 years and gives me a free swap mount within that time.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    @arionelli
    have you considered taking a look at our HCam-B1 ?
    Your Hassy Zeiss lenses will work perfectly on it plus Canon 17+24mm TSE (world record wideangle - with NO COLOR CAST !),
    plus Contax/Zeiss lenses (85,100macro), Nikon, Olympus,..... + Leica R lenses + about any other MF lenses including all Mamiya 645 and now with our Adapter also RZ lenses. You can use ALL Backs - no matter which maker, if you decide to use another one the Back adapters are interchangeable.
    Focusing is bright and easy with a Groundglass, you can use all your Hassy Finders, we include a loupe finder which is pretty good for exact focusing.
    The shutter is from 32sec to a 1/4000 sec (exactly like the Mamiya DF=same shutter) the camera can generate a wakeup signal if needed (at no extra cost=built in)......... see here:

    http://hcam.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm and following pages

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan Steib - HCam.de

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    I went medium format digital before, and while there are ways to use most systems with a medium format digital back, I would say you will get the best user experience by choosing a system that has been designed specifically with digital use in mind. For me, I would say this means the Mamiya/Phase One camera system, the Hasselblad H series, the Hy6/AFi, ZD, Pentax 645D or Leica S2. While some of these may be out of your price range, you might find one (particularly the ZD or Mamiya systems) in your price range. The reason I say this is that there is a lot to be said for having a camera system that just works without too many cable connections, stop down metering, or other complicated gymnastics. When you are actually taking photos, you will probably be wanting to focus more on the task of image making than on trying to fiddle with equipment. All of the systems are capable of great images when used properly, and the greatest differences between them (particularly at the lower end of the market) is more in user experience than in image quality. As Graham said, I would consider either selling your lenses and getting a new system, or opting for a system that would use them natively. One nice thing about the H system for you would be that you can get a lens adapter that would allow you to use your lenses without stop-down metering. I would look long and hard at this first to see if you can put together a kit with that which would fit your budget. Either that, or just sell it all and get something more dedicated to digital.
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Stuart I think this is really excellent advice.
    Bob
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I went medium format digital before, and while there are ways to use most systems with a medium format digital back, I would say you will get the best user experience by choosing a system that has been designed specifically with digital use in mind. For me, I would say this means the Mamiya/Phase One camera system, the Hasselblad H series, the Hy6/AFi, ZD, Pentax 645D or Leica S2. While some of these may be out of your price range, you might find one (particularly the ZD or Mamiya systems) in your price range. The reason I say this is that there is a lot to be said for having a camera system that just works without too many cable connections, stop down metering, or other complicated gymnastics. When you are actually taking photos, you will probably be wanting to focus more on the task of image making than on trying to fiddle with equipment. All of the systems are capable of great images when used properly, and the greatest differences between them (particularly at the lower end of the market) is more in user experience than in image quality. As Graham said, I would consider either selling your lenses and getting a new system, or opting for a system that would use them natively. One nice thing about the H system for you would be that you can get a lens adapter that would allow you to use your lenses without stop-down metering. I would look long and hard at this first to see if you can put together a kit with that which would fit your budget. Either that, or just sell it all and get something more dedicated to digital.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Until and unless you are bent on acquiring a five year old MFDB, a new DB is a better option. The H system will cost practically the same as a new MFDB, and give you autofocus as well. The H4D31 cost the same or less than the CFV-39, and the H4D40 marginally more. With H System you can use all the V Lenses, using an adapter.

    The older DB will not be all that inexpensive, of lower MP and older generation sensors - lower ISO and noisier. The best compromise between MP and cost is still the CFV-II, which at 16 MP square sensor is an excellent DB for the V System.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Thanks all of you so much for all the input...

    @ Stuart/Bob/Graham...do I understand correctly that I can get an "H" body + adaptor, with included on-board metering, and then continue to motor along with my V lenses, letting the camera set the shutter speed according to iso and manually-set aperture? That would be all I would ever really need (except for a back of course)...and I could still use a film back, right?

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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    ...and also wanted to ask about digital backs...are the Leaf Aptus 22 or Phase One P25 good enough to keep ahead of full frame digital quality?
    I have an Aptus 22 which is slow and heavy, but delivers superb results up to 100. 200 is for me a bit noisy, but some folk think the noise to be film-like and like it.

    The A22 has the advantage over some newer backs of being able to shoot as low as iso25, so you can shoot in sunlight with a Mamiya at 1/125 at f5.6 or f8 with the right flash.

    The only comparison I can make is with my [relatively] ancient K20D, which suffers in sharpness and dynamic range in comparison.

    Smooth yet crisp is my medium-format mantra.
    Last edited by mediumcool; 28th July 2011 at 00:50. Reason: changed a couple of words and removed a comma

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Yeah, right...dumbo here was just reading a bit more about the H system...I see it's a leaf shutter, so all manual metering, probably with focus confirmation. I assume the CF adaptor allows the same functions as the 500 series bodies wrt to the shutter/aperture/wind on mechanisms. Not much different to continuing with the 501 and as I see it, identical to adding a prism meter. Would that be correct?

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    I'm with ajoyroy on this. I'm a happy owner of a 500CM, RB67 Pro-SD and RZ67 Pro, each system with at least 3 good lenses, I'm starting to find it hard to use them for anything our of fairly controlled environments, when comparing them with my AFD II with an Aptus 65S MFDB, which pretty cost me as much as a CFV-16 that I'd been eyeing (turns out that CFV-16 has a firmware fault).

    It makes more sense to look around for a used H digital system, which will give you the option to shoot with the benefit of AF, and switch over to a V system using an adapter if the nostalgia kicks in

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    I have a 501cm with a CFV back. It works perfect with all V lenses I have (40mm 50mm, 60mm, 80mm and so forth) and is completely integrated with no tethering or sync cords required. The Phocus software is free, easy to use and has built-in adjustments for all V lens. On top of all that it looks like a Hasselblad.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by timwier View Post
    I have a 501cm with a CFV back. It works perfect with all V lenses I have (40mm 50mm, 60mm, 80mm and so forth) and is completely integrated with no tethering or sync cords required. The Phocus software is free, easy to use and has built-in adjustments for all V lens. On top of all that it looks like a Hasselblad.
    I completely agree. I have the CFV39 and really love the way it integrates with the V system. I certainly wouldn't use it for action work but I'm a commercial photographer and mainly work in studio and on location under controlled conditions. I find in my type of work auto would be of no value.Even with fully auto cameras like my Canon 1DsII I still use manual focus and exposure unless the conditions warrent the full auto mode.

    I can also say the Zeiss glass is spectacular with a digital back. I also love the ability to interchange the back with my Technikardan 23.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    I looked for a long time at the V system, even held a few, and at the end of the day, decided the manual focus was just not for me. My application is fine art figure in the studio, and with my shooting style AF is just easier.

    That said, I just got an Arsat 30mm, and it's way fun to play with, but as was said above, stop down metering, manual focus, etc ..... It's a bit specialist for me, so $160 vs $1000 for something that I don't use all the time just did not make sense.

    If you do think of the P30+, the crop factor does matter, but it's not huge.

    The ZD is a great way to get your feet we without breaking the bank, but as the forum title says, abandon hope ...... ( says the man who is already lusting for an IQ )

    Dave

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by timwier View Post
    I have a 501cm with a CFV back. It works perfect with all V lenses I have (40mm 50mm, 60mm, 80mm and so forth) and is completely integrated with no tethering or sync cords required. The Phocus software is free, easy to use and has built-in adjustments for all V lens. On top of all that it looks like a Hasselblad.
    Would it be the same with a 500CM? I don't recall the 501CM having electronic contacts, but I could be wrong

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by ghoonk View Post
    Would it be the same with a 500CM? I don't recall the 501CM having electronic contacts, but I could be wrong
    Yes you are wrong.

    The CFV uses the mechanical mechanism from the film back days to trigger the digital back. It is the ONLY digital back that works straight on any 500 series camera without contacts or sync cords.

    It also works on a 200 series camera with a slight modification to the camera by Hasselblad service. 200 series cameras that have been modified have a blue decal stating it has been converted for CFV use.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Well thanks to all for the many thought provoking PsOV...I have considered most them and weighed the pros and cons for my projected uses. Although it's dead in the water, I have decided to get the Contax 645 with its 35, 55, 80 & 120mm lenses and keep the V 250/adaptor. . I like the Contax and the lenses a lot from previous experience and it will serve me better as a more versatlie, convenient, handheld, semi-auto ttl metering +/- occasional AF than the 501 which in my hands is more restricted to considered photography (which the Contax does equally well I think).
    The other factor I took into consideration is the not too distant future acquisition of a digital back. A look at how wide the C645 35mm lens is on 44 & 48mm wide sensors, just to relate to my preferred max of 25mm for 24x36 format, shows 35 x 56/44 x 36/44 = 36.4 & 35 x 56/48 x 36/48 = 30.6mm, respectively, which is just adequate. The Hasselblad 40mm, on the other hand, gives a FOV approx equal to 41.6 and 35mm respectively, which to me is starting to look almost standard. I hope a P25 or Leaf 22 is not too far out of reach with a 5k limit - if that gets me at least on par quality with well-scanned film I would be happy enough. Is that realistic?

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    OH. Now THAT is good news. Any idea where I can get my hands on a CFV-16?
    My images on 500px : http://500px.com/ghoonk
    H4D-40 | Xpan | Leica M9P | Leica M Monochrom | X100 | Hasselblad 500CM | 501CM | 503CXi

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    A minor point, but revisiting this thread as the OP, I just realised my conversions are flawed wrt to 35mm equivalents. I think it should be:
    35mm on 33x44 = 28.6mm, on 36x48 = 26.3mm
    40mm " = 32.7mm, " = 30mm
    must have been smoking something

    This looks healthier for me, perhaps may even be able to get away with retaining my 50mm

    In the meantime I've exchanged words with a few reps, mulled over and over about my needs, read a lot more on this forum.

    3 things are standing out mostly for me:

    1. As Marc W repeats, application application application...(just as relevant for ams and pros alike)

    2. Get some hands-on with these a bit before buying once I've really sorted out what will work best for me

    3. Best to buy into digital mf through a rep

    Thanks again to all for your help

    Martin

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    A minor point, but revisiting this thread as the OP, I just realised my conversions are flawed wrt to 35mm equivalents. I think it should be:
    35mm on 33x44 = 28.6mm, on 36x48 = 26.3mm
    40mm " = 32.7mm, " = 30mm
    Are you using the diagonal to calculate? This is flawed in that the aspect ratios are different, so prints will have different shapes (apples and oranges); I use the shorter side of each format to calculate, which means that 35mm format would be reduced in size to 24 x 32 for eventual output at a 3:4 ratio.

    This approach makes for simple calculation with a 36 x 48 sensor — 2/3 or 0.67. So a 35mm becomes equivalent to a 23.33333[recurring] lens. Smaller sensor = 25.45mm eq.

    On the other hand, if somebody always crops their prints to a 2:3 ratio, then using the long side of each format would make more sense.

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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Your point makes sense, but no, I was only considering the long side, mostly to determine the widest AOV for each lens.

    I got used to thinking in mf focal lengths with film but now that I'm looking at digital I have been recalculating into 35mm equivalents a bit to level off sensor sizes (not even thinking about dof effects).

    Martin

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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad V alternatives for digital

    Quote Originally Posted by arionelli View Post
    Your point makes sense, but no, I was only considering the long side, mostly to determine the widest AOV for each lens.

    I got used to thinking in mf focal lengths with film but now that I'm looking at digital I have been recalculating into 35mm equivalents a bit to level off sensor sizes (not even thinking about dof effects).

    Martin
    OK, worked out what AOV means, but you seem to mean wide angle of view; am I right? Because there is vertical angle of view too, of course.

    But that approach would require cropping 3:4 images to 2:3, thus losing pixels.
    Last edited by mediumcool; 4th February 2012 at 23:58. Reason: changed *mean* to *require*.

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