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Thread: Live Preview on IQ180

  1. #1
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Live Preview on IQ180

    I just had the opportunity to try out the "Live Preview" untethered on a Phase One IQ180V system. I spent a few minutes with it (will have more time later), but the performance is pretty good.

    It is accessed via the lower bottom right hand menu (see image below). You click on the movie camera icon, then open the shutter and the image appears.

    We shot out our window of our office into the daylight and we had the aperture set @ F11 and the preview was not blown out at all. We then put a ND filter and set it to F2.8 and it worked well.

    You can zoom all the way up to 400% in the Live Preview mode just like you can do in the full screen preview.

    More info to follow as we get some more time to explore it.

    But in my opinion it is usable and exceeded my expectations.

    Lance
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Wow. Thanks for the update. I can't wait to try it out!

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Lance, thanks for this information. This is exciting news for those of us who have already purchased the IQ180! Charles

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Oh dear does the update do other things as well?

    Do you know when it is coming out?

    Thanks

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Going to try and grab some video of it in action later.
    L
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Is this going to be implemented in the IQ140 as well?
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Then, producing a ND filter with quick pressure release friction mounts like the expodisc should be a good idea !

    it's probably possible to swap filters between an ND and an expodisc...

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Yes there is a forthcoming firmware upgrade for all the IQ backs.
    They pre-loaed the new firmware on the IQ180V units we just received.
    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    So it is ready then, I am traveling soon in a photo trip, oh please when

    Lance how fast CF speed for double tap? Does it have IIQ small?

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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Yes on IIQS.
    About 1 second to double tap to 100%.
    Not sure of the release date of the firmware for backs in the field, checking on that.
    Lance
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Lance im going to India in 3 days for 17 days, I would beg for a firmware lol

    We r going to Ladakh, no internet overthere

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    On variable ND filters you can eliminate the "ND" by rotating the two parts but then you still have glass in front of your lens.
    Last edited by Terry; 26th July 2011 at 08:18.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    I think only some type of clip on ND would make it usefull. I cant see myself screwing something on and off, or sliding in and out to focus.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Whoopee!
    Lance, does it have USB enabled?

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    I am currently playing with Live preview and I'd say to landscape shooters to not let their expectations get out of control.
    I've used it today on my Alpa, indoors and outdoors with the 23mm HR Digaron, and also indoors, tethered with the 150mm Schneider and the Alpa tilt adapter, doing a tabletop still life.
    The monorail view camera shooters are going to love this function, especially if they have remote electronic shutter control. It still works with mechanical shutters. In my view, it makes the PITA sliding back with groundglass obsolete. It takes a bit of getting used to focussing with the grainy image, but after some practice, I was able to accurately place focus, including tilting Scheimpflug effect. Studio stii life just became fun again.
    I tried to shoot some city skyline stuff in the dark of night from my 46th floor balcony and this was almost a lost cause. Shooting in available darkness is a no-no.
    However, with the greying of the dawn, the preview is very usable.
    I also shot a shot along my room divider at 45deg, with my focus placed on a bottle about 60cm from the 23mm at maximum aperture. The bottle is in perfect focus. Big 10/10 for Live preview on that one.
    The software integration is simple and intuitive. It's easy to access as well. I found zooming in to 400% was overkill and hard to define detail and navigate to the spot you want. Working between 200 and 300% seemed to work well for me.
    I'll post more once I've done more. It remains to be seen what the release version performs like. I am doing some pre-release free testing of the beta. No, I have no idea when it is being released.
    Dan, are you travelling through Dubai enroute to India? If so, give me a bell and you'll have a local guide and host....
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    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Hi Lance,

    Thanks for sharing.

    - If I understand it right, the function does not involve the shutter, means it is done with continuously open / used f/stop?

    - What is the refresh rate?

    - Can it be switched to B&W? And in this case, what is then the refresh rate?

    Thanks
    Thierry
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    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Tim-no the USB is not enabled .

    Thierry - Correct the Live Preview does not involve the shutter, it is off of the chip.

    I did not time the refresh rate.

    There is a menu item for adjusting refresh rate/quality, also a grid menu and a dropper for balance.

    It is color only the Live Preview Display.


    Lance
    Last edited by lance_schad; 26th July 2011 at 12:58. Reason: correction
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Siebel, we are going straight to Manali-Leh from Delhi. Thanks for the offer.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    I did not time the refresh nor is it adjustable (at least I could not find a setting for it)
    Refresh rate is the inverse of the quality slider in the pop up context menu.

    At maximum refresh you're looking at a few frames per second. Moving objects often take 2-3 frames to "settle in" especially if high contrast light is involved.

    Useless for portrait, fashion, sports, or hand-holding.

    Suprisingly effective for composition of tripod-based slow-pace architecture/interior/landscape. I need more hands-on time in a variety of situations to comment on effectiveness of using it to focus.

    A variable ND Filter IMO is non-optional for effective use.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Doug,

    Composition, for me, is very important..... saves some time and shots. Focus would also be very nice but a disto and HPF rings are so accurate that focus would really have to on the level of a 5DII to make sense to me. That may be down the road. This is all VERY positive news.

    Victor

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    How about compostion Mode , has that been enabled in this Firmware update?

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    ...love to see that 1:1 square format on the IQ180


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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Doug, thinking ahead. Have you or anyone tried the Hilopan variable ND? It provides up to 6.6 stops of ND. This seems to be the best quality variable ND avaliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    A variable ND Filter IMO is non-optional for effective use.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Variable ND filters are a marketing gag mostly. Get yourself 2 Polarizing filters (any brand- it really does not matter at all -why i´ll explain in a second) screw them together and you have your variable ND filter.
    Now there are some problems: as with any filterstacking you´ll loose sharpness, this may not be important if you work only visually.
    second you will get color shifts in some oversaturated parts of the image which may look completely different if you remove the filter and third there are interference effects, which may become clearly visible (as a cross in the middle of the image). This means for visual focusing only - maybe ok,
    for work with taking images - forget about it.
    And if you want to pay several hundred bucks for it then believe the marketing blubber, if you just want to try out buy yourself 2 cheapos from ebay for 20 bucks each(I have 2 x 86mm for my Hartblei 40 with stepdown rings for smaller sizes)
    And it does NOT matter which brand you buy, this is physics, which is stronger than marketing..........

    Greetings from Munich
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    PS - found this test comparison image in http://www.videotreffpunkt.com
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 21st October 2011 at 11:57.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    I just wanted to clarify that this version of the firmware which includes Live View is currently on the IQ180V mount only.

    It is my understanding there will be a future release of firmware for the other IQ models that will include this functionality.

    Lance
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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Variable ND filters are a marketing gag mostly. Get yourself 2 Polarizing filters (any brand- it really does not matter at all -why i´ll explain in a second) screw them together and you have your variable ND filter.
    Now there are some problems: as with any filterstacking you´ll loose sharpness, this may not be important if you work only visually.
    second you will get color shifts in some oversaturated parts of the image which may look completely different if you remove the filter and third there are interference effects, which may become clearly visible (as a cross in the middle of the image). This means for visual focusing only - maybe ok,
    for work with taking images - forget about it.
    And if you want to pay several hundred bucks for it then believe the marketing blubber, if you just want to try out buy yourself 2 cheapos from ebay for 20 bucks each(I have 2 x 86mm for my Hartblei 40 with stepdown rings for smaller sizes)
    And it does NOT matter which brand you buy, this is physics, which is stronger than marketing..........

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan Steib - HCam.de

    PS - found this test comparison image in http://www.videotreffpunkt.com
    While I agree with most of what you say, I would suggest that perhaps the heliopan filters are not "exactly" two polarizers. It supposedly can be dialed down to a single stop ... two polarizers stacked will create more ND than that. How they do this I'm not sure, because my singh-ray minimum is 2 stops. Also, because of the way they are made the two elements are much closer together than two polarizers, helping with their optical quality.

    Of course, in this discussion we aren't talking about taking pictures through the polarizers, we're talking about away to vary the light when using live view on a digital back. A variable ND would make that task immensely easier. In this case, I'd agree ... two cheap polarizers should work just fine for that.
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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Wayne

    I can only guess, but maybe they have combined a linear and a circular Polarizer ? and probably making the glass thinner than usal could also help,as well as you mentioned keeping the filters in closest possible distance.

    But optically (and financially!) a normal ND will be better.

    But to get back to the live preview task - If Phase has really managed to get this working in daylight - without shutter - RESPECT !
    Then this is a major step forward !!!

    regards
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Stefan,

    My understanding of the "variable" ND filters is that a linear and circular polarizer are sandwiched together.

    ken

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    PS - found this test comparison image in http://www.videotreffpunkt.com
    Very strange test methodology - the aperture and shutter are fixed but ISO varies, which significantly affects IQ. The only sensible way to to it would be to alter shutter speed.

    Anyway, point taken about the filters - variable is ok for live view but nothing beats a quality ND filter.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Phase One IQ Series Firmware 1.33 is now availabe for download

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    . . . . . .
    But to get back to the live preview task - If Phase has really managed to get this working in daylight - without shutter - RESPECT !
    Then this is a major step forward !!!
    regards
    Stefan
    . . . then forget about a bulky and delicate sliding adapter .
    This is the future . Great , just great .
    The IQ160 comes into my dreams again .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Living the 160 dream. Could not be happier too.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    @Graham
    these are Videopeople- they tick different, they have fixed timings you remember ?
    @Jürgen
    I am pretty sure that we are still faster with a motorized slide to the left (7 Sec.) if you need to apply and remove an ND filter. Further- how much power will it consume ? If I were a battery maker, I´d stock up on Phase batteries.

    just a thought........

    Stefan
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Just loaded it on my IQ180 and gave it a quick spin on my tech camera --- I am happy to report Live View works as advertised. It's a long way from perfect, but far better than I had assumed it would be. Also, on my tech cam it was fully usable at f8 and f11 *without* an ND filter -- note this was in dimmer, early AM light, so maybe it will be problematic in bright Sun. Of course you loose the paper thin DoF of f4 or less for critical focus, but then I carry ND's with me anyway for when that's needed.

    Pretty cool overall and gets a solid from me!
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Jack how did you download the new firmware
    Can't seem to find it at P1
    are you are beta tester?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Just loaded it on my IQ180 and gave it a quick spin on my tech camera --- I am happy to report Live View works as advertised. It's a long way from perfect, but far better than I had assumed it would be. Also, on my tech cam it was fully usable at f8 and f11 *without* an ND filter -- note this was in dimmer, early AM light, so maybe it will be problematic in bright Sun. Of course you loose the paper thin DoF of f4 or less for critical focus, but then I carry ND's with me anyway for when that's needed.

    Pretty cool overall and gets a solid from me!

  36. #36
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    I grabbed it off the CI site in Doug's link above.
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    Re: Live Preview on IQ180

    Thx got it

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