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Thread: advice on a problem

  1. #1
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    advice on a problem

    Hi,

    I am trying for the very first time my Aptus II 5 (brandnew) and my (new to me but second hand) Alpa SWA + SK 35XL + SK 72L.

    It is not going well.

    It looked simple enough and the 4 first exposures actually came out "normal", but the next 25 or so has come out like this....





    Yes, I have written an email to my dealer for advice, but I thought that maybe someone here has seen this before and know what to do!

    What I have done is the following. I have formatted the CF on my imac to FAT32, then done a quick format in-DB. I have done this with 3 different CF's.

    I have tried both the 35mm and the 72mm with the same result, which means to me that there is nothing wrong with shutters.

    I have used "factory settings" on the back and the only thing I have changed is to go in and tick "large format", nothing else.

    My hope! is that it is as simple as a faulty sync cable!!!! Could this happen with a sync cable not working correctly? I only have the one, so I cannot check that.

    Or does anyone have another suggestion of what to try?
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  2. #2
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    It has nothing to do with camera lens or anything else except the back or the card.
    first you might try formatting the card in the back in other than "quick" mode if offered.
    Be sure that the CF card you are using is one that the manufacturer supports.

    Are these short exposures such that a drank frame image is not being taken?
    thanks
    -bob

  3. #3
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I had odd problems, not like this but corrupted files with weird lines on an Aptus 7 II (Actually a DM33). That card type simply doesn't work, a SanDisk Ultra 30 MB/s 8GB. For other cards, I was still concerned as the manual actually recommend FAT16 but my mac cannot format that (FAT 32 as you say), what I did in the end was format it in a Nikon body.

    I also had other odd exposure issues to a faulty cable. Those issues were more like yours but not as extreme. I tried a better quality, new sync cable and it was fine.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I would not completely exclude a faulty sync cable. But in any case, re-format the CF cards as suggested by Bob.

    Thierry
    Thierry Hagenauer
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Did you check the extra option for Master Boot Record (MBR) per the Leaf article on formatting CF cards prior to first use?

    http://www.leaf-photography.com/file...g_CF_cards.pdf

    I'd also try another CF card - preferably a SanDisk Pro.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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  6. #6
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Thank you all,

    I have reformatted the card following the link from Doug. Now when I expose absolutely nothing happens on the back. It stays quiet.

    This does suggest to me that the sync cable is broken and no signal is going through. Atleast I hope so....

    I will buy new ones tomorrow and try again!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I'm 100% sure this is a sync issue; Cable, shutter or sync ports

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  8. #8
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I finally found a new sync cable. Unfortunately the result is exactly the same

    Just to test the lenses socket, I put a studioflash cord into the lens socket and exposed. No problem, on both lenses, the flash goes off as it should.

    I have gone through the formatting routine from the link by Doug on;

    * Sandisk Ultra 30mb/s 4GB
    * Sandisk Ultra II 15mb/s 4GB
    * Sandisk Extreme III 30mb/s 4GB

    First tries as is from formatting from the Imac. Secondly, making a quick format in DB.

    All of these attempts results in images like posted before.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  9. #9
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    So I suppose there is then also a normal image registered on the DB, or?

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Just to test the lenses socket, I put a studioflash cord into the lens socket and exposed. No problem, on both lenses, the flash goes off as it should.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  10. #10
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    No, I just tested the lens socket, holding only the lens in hand with the flash cord connected. The flash went of upon exposing, suggesting that the lens socket is ok.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    My guess is that there would be a normal image registered, if connected to the DB, but you should try this to make it sure.
    Still the sync cable, the shutter itself (but then on 2 lenses at the same time would be really weird) are IMO the cause.
    Are you sure also to have selected the right "Camera Setting"?

    In any case, I would let this tested out by your dealer, he has the best knowledge to address this issue quickly.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    No, I just tested the lens socket, holding only the lens in hand with the flash cord connected. The flash went of upon exposing, suggesting that the lens socket is ok.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  12. #12
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Quote Originally Posted by TH_Alpa View Post
    My guess is that there would be a normal image registered, if connected to the DB, but you should try this to make it sure.
    Thierry, I do not follow you here. Ofcourse the sync cable is connected when I shoot, otherwise nothing could be registered.

    If the camera setting is not at "large format" then nothing registers, so everytime there is an actual capture, it is set to "large format". The rest is at factory settings.

    I am going to Copenhagen on Monday to a dealer to have a look at it, but it is unlucky because I am off this weekend to a fantastic area where I would like to shoot....

    wellwell....

    This is capture number 51!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Dan - does this happen with multiple lenses?


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
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  14. #14
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Yes, I have a Schneider 35 XL and a Schneider 72 L and I get the same result with both.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  15. #15
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I just meant "with a D back" attached and connected to make sure that a normal image is then registered by the back.
    You wrote, "No, just with the lens hold in hand and flash cord connected", when I asked you if there is a normal image produced in this case.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Thierry, I do not follow you here. Ofcourse the sync cable is connected when I shoot, otherwise nothing could be registered.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  16. #16
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Well, with my DB connected it does not produce anything like a normal image.

    By connecting a flash to the lens x socket (and thus no connection to a DB) was just a test to see that the x socket on the lens was giving a signal.

    Right now, I do not think I can solve this for the weekend, I have tried everything I can for two days. On Monday I am able to try another Alpa lens, other CF cards, other sync cables and also another Leaf back, so we can pinpoint where the problem lies.

    Luckily I am the kind of person that is calm and know that eventually I will have a system that will give me lots of pleasure. It is just that it is "slightly" frustrating when everything is new to me and nothing works....
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  17. #17
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Well, you should try this with a DB connected. It would allow you to eliminate 3 variables, the back, the x-socket and the shutter, if it produces a normal image.

    Then there would be only the sync cord and the CF card left, in the list of possible culprits. Although you have changed the cable already, it doesn't mean the problem is not coming from this part.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    By connecting a flash to the lens x socket (and thus no connection to a DB) was just a test to see that the x socket on the lens was giving a signal.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Have you tried shooting this tethered yet as it would eliminate the CF card in the process.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Thierry, I am sorry, but I do not understand. If you have the x socket on the lens occupied with a flashcord, how do you then connect to the DB? If you mean as I understand is correct, lens x socket to DB and then flashcord to the x socket on the DB, then I have done that several times with the same result as shown.

    Guy, that I had not tried, so I installed the software and tried. The liveview then showed the strange artifacts live, so that eliminates bad CF cards. But problem remains.

    So, it seems quite obvious as most also are guessing. It is a signal problem!

    I have 2 lenses behaving the same. Can I be unlucky that both x sockets are not giving the right signal? (both tested ok with flashcord connected and triggered the flash)

    I have one secondhand sync cable and today bought a new sync cable, both gives the same result. Can I be so unlucky that both are broken?

    Or, how likely is it that it is actually the input connection on the brandnew Aptus DB that is broken?

    Interesting this
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  20. #20
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Dan what sort of shutter speeds are you getting this at?

    You have a flash so try shooting at a fast shutter speed like 1/125 or faster; Typically Copal shutter that are faulty will start showing this at relatively slow shutter speeds but will still work OK at faster speeds with flash

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  21. #21
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    I was at 1/125 with the studioflash but not faster, however, since I got live view going and the image on the computer was the same kind as a capture, I suppose that I can rule out shutter failure.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  22. #22
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Really sounds like your getting some cross signal in the sensor since the images are coming in reversed like a negative that seems to be my best guess is there is a short in the circuitry somewhere in the chain and I don't think your lens or cable has anything to do with it. Everything in my mind points directly at a sensor issue.

    You bought this from a Leaf dealer

    BTW this is one time I hope I am wrong
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  23. #23
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Yes, from a Leaf dealer, but in another country from where I live. Actually I got the contact through Yair and the dealer/salesman has been very serviceminded and helpful. The distance is making it slightly difficult though...

    I picked it up on Monday and in the shop we unpacked it and put it on a Mamiya 645 and shot 3 exposures and the images came up perfect on the display. Satisfied with this we packed it again and I went home to start shooting with my Alpa....

    I am new to this, but it is not only me that is a little puzzled....
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  24. #24
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    So it worked on a DF but not the Alpa. Hmmm

    Okay not knowing leaf settings here. Is there some kind of latency thing in the settings to reset or something of that nature.

    Yair,Doug can you just go from DF to dumb plate without a setting change
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  25. #25
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    What I have been told is that on a dumb plate it is a must to choose "large format" to comunicate. I forgot this once and when set at Mamiya 645 it simply stays quiet when exposing. There is no signal coming through.

    So, every capture realised has been with the large format setting. Could there be another "must" setting that I am missing?
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  26. #26
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Hi Dan

    just a short try : go to your leaf backs setup - choose camera "other".
    I had something like this happening on our HCam which normally works also with the view camera setting on the leaf back, it worked for maybe 10 images and then stopped. Putting the back to "Other" mode got everything working normally.

    ???
    ;-)
    Greetings from Munich
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  27. #27
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Thanks Stefan for the suggestion, but no improvement.

    I couldn't sleep yesterday, my head spinning about this, and finally I came up with an idea that would eliminate many possible faults. I set it up for live view and did NOT connect the sync cable to the lens. This means that shutterproblem, signalproblem, sync cable problem and also sync cable input on DB problem was out of the picture! On top it eliminates the possibility of having all my CF cards making this happen.

    The problem persists.

    Does this confirm that I have been unlucky in getting a DB that is broken?

    I cannot see that I have missed a "setting" that can produce this...here is a screenshot of my liveview window.
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  28. #28
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Pretty amazing handling! I went to Phase one HQ Tuesday morning with my back. The support guy told me after 2 captures that it was producing corrupted files and had to be repaired. This I had figured out ofcourse, but to my surprise it arrived this afternoon all fixed it took 2 days only! That is what I call service!!!!

    Guess if I was eager to try it out unfortunately we had a dinnerinvitation and it gave me just about 20 minutes in the garden.....

    I set it up for the tool shed and nailed the focus on the second try!


    SK 35XL • 100iso • f8,5 • 1/60

    I couldn't resist but bringing the camera to the dinner and show it to my friends and at the same time thinking of a nightshot on the way back home.....


    SK 35XL • 100iso • f11 • 12 seconds

    This is going to be a lot of fun
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  29. #29
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Hi Dan,

    thanks for the follow-up and to let us know.

    Pretty nice images, I like them.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    The support guy told me after 2 captures that it was producing corrupted files and had to be repaired.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  30. #30
    Super Duper
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    Re: advice on a problem

    Glad your story has a happy ending, Dan!
    Bill

  31. #31
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: advice on a problem

    on the conclusion!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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