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Thread: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    One degree of tilt...

    Here is an exemplar image showing what tilt can do. First off, the light was changing fast and so I had to move very quickly to get this before the rainbow disappeared -- so it is not framed ideally, and in fact this a crop from the full IQ180 frame to get the old ruin and the bow out of the dead center. Anyway, the crops are still full size and work for the purposes of this example.

    First, the cropped full frame image -- about 20MP taken off the top and LH edge of frame:



    Specs for the shot were early AM light and rain, 40HR-W at f8, 1/30th at ISO 35, 10mm RISE and 1 degree forward tilt to hold foreground through infinity sharpness at f8. LCC was taken and image was processed in C1, then adjusted slightly for contrast in PS before creating the web crops and jpeg.

    Here is the crop from about two feet in front of my right tripod leg:



    Here is a crop showing ground level at mid frame distance , as well as the structures there, as well as the far mountain in decent light (and no rain) at infinity:



    Note: There is a slight "hot spot" mid frame near the base of the rainbow. At first I thought this was due to the rain right there -- and it could be -- but I also had similar spots on higher contrast images taken the day before and day after this one. So right now, I am puzzled. I originally tested the lens in high-contrast light and did not get any hot-spotting, but now I do. Just realized it was raining most of the time, so perhaps I got some moisture in the internal surfaces of the lens, need to check that out ASAP...
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Looks like moisture on the inside of the lens from humidity. Had this happen a lot when i was in Brazil
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Actually, after thinking that, I ran home at lunch to dry it out. It turns out it is from the lens caps you and I use -- there is a little sticker inside center, and it when in the bag, it compressed just enough to rub a wee bit of goo on the direct center of the front element -- only about 2mm in diameter, and why I never noticed it. Feeling very, very stupid
    Jack
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Damn that was silly of them to put in there to start with.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Wonderful shot Jack, even with the lens cap problem--always learning new stuff us photogs!

    Darr
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Damn that was silly of them to put in there to start with.
    Actually, I think it's there on purpose to prevent the hard plastic of the cap from scratching the lens. The irony is I used these because the factory slip on Tech lens caps are so flimsy they can easily compress to the rub the front element if you're not careful -- I learned this in my LF days as LF lenses use the same press on caps. The hard style we use for our regular lenses are a flat designed cap, and I suspect that sticker is there as a protective pad. I've already moved to domed hard caps, left over form various Mamiya lenses, and they appear to be perfect candidates for tech lenses with shallow recess front elements
    Jack
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Wonderful shot Jack, even with the lens cap problem--always learning new stuff us photogs!

    Darr
    Thank you Darr! It was one of those "wish I had 5 more minutes to grab it properly" shots
    Jack
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    Member David Duffin's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Good work, Jack! You've convinced me that an Alpa T/S adapter is an absolute necessity

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Note: There is a slight "hot spot" mid frame near the base of the rainbow. At first I thought this was due to the rain right there -- and it could be -- but I also had similar spots on higher contrast images taken the day before and day after this one. So right now, I am puzzled. I originally tested the lens in high-contrast light and did not get any hot-spotting, but now I do. Just realized it was raining most of the time, so perhaps I got some moisture in the internal surfaces of the lens, need to check that out ASAP...
    Jack, this is so weird you posting about the same problem I had with a 40HR-W I purchased to possibly replace my 43XL. I assumed as the 40HR-W was such a widely used lens and this issue had never been reported before I had purchased a dud copy of the lens and didn't bother mentioning it on here.

    A quick example of the flare spot on my 40HR-W can be seen below. It was always in the centre of the lens in contrasty lighting and was plain as day when the spot was over dark foliage. Interior shots with soft lighting I could not detect the spot, but this was not to say it wasn't there. I say this because I use an Arca ML2 and focus on the ground glass with a loupe and for the life of me I couldn't get a good focus by eye with this lens. My interest in the 40HR was the f4 aperture for brighter focusing on the GG but what looked ok on the GG in the centre was quite a margin out when viewed on the laptop, surprisingly the f5.6 43XL was always there or very nearly. It was as if there was no contrast to focus the lens properly.

    I could shoot in the same lighting conditions (white sky's, dark foreground) and replicate this issue every single time over a period of 4 days testing. Move my P65+ around the image circle and the spot would stay on the same tree in the centre of the lens but shifted up, down, left, right etc around the frame. It wasn't a camera problem as I did the same shots on the 43XL after each other and they did not display any of the same problems.

    I ended up getting a refund on the lens because of this problem and stuck with the very excellent and predictable 43XL. I've considered testing the lens again to see if the problems are on a different manufacturing batch but there was so little difference between the two for light fall off and sharpness I think the 43XL is the better choice for me.

    I would seriously consider thoroughly testing your lens again as it might be something more than dirt. My copy was brand new out of the box and the first capture I noticed it and no amount of cleaning and blowing changed anything.
    Last edited by gazwas; 11th August 2011 at 23:52.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    ...or just trade it all in for an Arca :-)

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Jack,

    This is one of the big advantages of the Arca and Cambo systems over the Alpa..... Tilt on the Alpa is limited to 80mm. But..... I own lots of Alpa stuff so I'm kinda married to it. Could you maybe comment as to why Alpa would offer two different tilt adaptors? I can't imagine why anyone would require a tilt of over 6 degrees. It would be beneficial if there was a series on tilt showing various lenses, short and long, with different tilts....... lots of folks could lean.

    Victor

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Victor, for macro and in some cases external architecture there are times when you want more. Also you can put it on the back of the camera and use it to swing the back instead for perspective correction. There are some nice creative effects, especially in portraiture that also use more aggressive tilt. Lots of things in fact!

    I would also point out the Arca can tilt a short lens, but on a long lens will move the front element quite a distance as it's swinging around way out there. You'll probably get some clipping of the image. The Alpa can put the tilt on the front or back, but shortest is 80mm as pointed out. Horses for courses. The Linhof techno is a good choice.

    Paul

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post

    I would seriously consider thoroughly testing your lens again as it might be something more than dirt. My copy was brand new out of the box and the first capture I noticed it and no amount of cleaning and blowing changed anything.
    I tested mine thoroughly the day I got it, including harsh into bright sky shots, and had ZERO hotspotting. I even went back to confirm those. This spot was clearly from a 2-3mm circle of goo on the dead center of the front element. It looked like and of course affected the image just like a spot of vaseline smeared on the front element
    Jack
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    Jack,

    This is one of the big advantages of the Arca and Cambo systems over the Alpa..... Tilt on the Alpa is limited to 80mm. But..... I own lots of Alpa stuff so I'm kinda married to it. Could you maybe comment as to why Alpa would offer two different tilt adaptors? I can't imagine why anyone would require a tilt of over 6 degrees. It would be beneficial if there was a series on tilt showing various lenses, short and long, with different tilts....... lots of folks could lean.

    Victor
    I shoot an *Arca RM3Di* not an Alpa, just for clarification. I have no idea why Alpa would offer two distinct tilt assemblies. I am sure Thierry can get us the correct answer, but if it can be mounted on the back as well, that could explain it. Back tilts (most often are swings for architecture) are often used to "square up" offset geometries, and this typically requires more movement than for PoF (Plane of Focus) changes. Additionally, rear swing for geometry correction usually needs the lens tilted (or swung) opposite to counter the focus changes from swinging the back. This (and perspective-correct product photography) is probably the main area where a full-movement view cameras really earn their keep...

    Re PoF changes. The total amount of tilt required to affect the PoF is dependent on the focal length and the subject distance; longer focal lengths require more tilt, and closer subject distances require more tilt. For tech use, I would think 5 or 6 degrees is more than adequate for up to 150mm lenses and relatively closer subjects. In most cases, a 35-50 lens at infinity will only need 1 degree, and a 70-90 at infinity maybe 1.5-2 degrees...
    Jack
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by David Duffin View Post
    Good work, Jack! You've convinced me that an Alpa T/S adapter is an absolute necessity
    Cool David! Just be aware that I believe the Alpa TS adapter is only usable on 80mm and longer lenses, so it won't help with PoF changes for shorter lenses.
    Jack
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    When I asked about the Alpa 6 vs 12 degree adapters I was told that the 12 degree version was simply a newer design (re-design). There's a slight difference in price but thats all. Btw, you can almost buy an Arca body for the price of the adapter thanks to the strength of the Swiss Franc

    The tilt/swing on wides is definitely a nice feature that Alpas lack. Focus stacking becomes a way of life unfortunately amongst the "tilt challenged".
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I tested mine thoroughly the day I got it, including harsh into bright sky shots, and had ZERO hotspotting. I even went back to confirm those. This spot was clearly from a 2-3mm circle of goo on the dead center of the front element. It looked like and of course affected the image just like a spot of vaseline smeared on the front element
    OK Jack. It does sound like it was the goo on the front element but I'm just making you aware that in my experience it only showed under certain conditions with the lens I had. Bright sunny days with blue skys or softly illuminated interiors there was zero spotting but shoot a green field/garden on an overcast whited out sky day and hey presto Mr Spot appeared on every shot....... Lens looked perfectly clean.

    It's worth another test under these conditions IMO and ideally the same location as your above posted image.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    I have Seen these spots before, from my experience they come from faulty shading. I could easily remove them by adjusting the lens hood. However, I have seen this effect strongest on the 150mm Schneider.

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    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Yes, that's it basically, concerning tilts (or swings). Remember that it all works according to the Scheimpflug rule: the 3 planes (subject, lens and image planes) have to meet into a common line, if one wants to have the sharpness plane. Therefore, it needs a bigger tilt-angle (swing) when the distance is longer between lens and image plane to have these 2 planes to meet. This means in practice that since a longer focal length requires a longer distance from lens to image plane to be sharp (infinity being the smallest possible distance = focal length) as a shorter focal length, such long lenses also require a bigger tilt (swing) angle.

    Also, since in studio one is closer to the subject, it needs also a longer lens to image plane distance as when focused on infinity (and basically one uses longer lenses for stills and macro), thus a bigger tilt (swing) angle is needed, as compared to shots at infinity.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post

    Re PoF changes. The total amount of tilt required to affect the PoF is dependent on the focal length and the subject distance; longer focal lengths require more tilt, and closer subject distances require more tilt. For tech use, I would think 5 or 6 degrees is more than adequate for up to 150mm lenses and relatively closer subjects. In most cases, a 35-50 lens at infinity will only need 1 degree, and a 70-90 at infinity maybe 1.5-2 degrees...
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    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    As mentioned by Jack and in my previous post, it usually needs a very few degrees of tilt (swing) to get things sharp with short focal length lenses and with long shooting distances.

    The Alpa Tilt/Swing +/- 0-6 Degrees Adapter is usually more than enough for most of the situations.

    However, some photographers have asked us to build an TS adapter with +/- 12 Degrees, for setups in studio in Macro situations, for extreme perspective corrections, etc .... That's the reason why Alpa has 2 different adapters.

    ALPA 0-12° (24°) tilt/swing adapter, multi-use

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I have no idea why Alpa would offer two distinct tilt assemblies. I am sure Thierry can get us the correct answer, but if it can be mounted on the back as well, that could explain it. Back tilts (most often are swings for architecture) are often used to "square up" offset geometries, and this typically requires more movement than for PoF (Plane of Focus) changes. Additionally, rear swing for geometry correction usually needs the lens tilted (or swung) opposite to counter the focus changes from swinging the back. This (and perspective-correct product photography) is probably the main area where a full-movement view cameras really earn their keep...
    Thierry Hagenauer
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I have Seen these spots before, from my experience they come from faulty shading. I could easily remove them by adjusting the lens hood. However, I have seen this effect strongest on the 150mm Schneider.
    But my dealer was baffled as they said due to the design of the Rodie, it was less prone to flare then my Schneider and that didn't display any of these issues. I shot various images within a 180 degree radius to move the position of the sun (behind the clouds) and that didn't make any difference.

    Seems an odd lens design if it can''t shoot outdoors on overcast days without extreme lens shading.

    Anyway, just thought it was worth mentioning....

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Re my spot. I am 100% certain my spot above was due to the goo spot on the front of my lens. I am also 100% certain that if shooting towards bright light with darker foreground, you can get a flare that would be similar, but not necessarily always in the exact same dead-center spot. For sure, any lens with generous IC's -- so this includes basically all tech lenses -- need to be shaded with a good hood or flag to prevent this type of flare.

    FWIW, I ordered the Arca dedicated bellows shade yesterday precisely for this reason. I prefer the Arca type of arrangement, an adjustable length shade that mounts to the body and surrounds the lens. Shades that surround the lens instead of mounting to it are easier to use with filters, and filters on tech lenses are significantly more prone to flare due to their flat surface, so make the use of shades even more critical...
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I am also 100% certain that if shooting towards bright light with darker foreground, you can get a flare that would be similar, but not necessarily always in the exact same dead-center spot.
    Mmmm, interesting observation but on the 40HR I purchase it was always exactly there, dead centre on the lens?

    Oh well, at least it proved for my use the 43XL was a better lens and saved quite a chunk on money in the process...... win, win.

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    Member LonnaTucker's Avatar
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Sorry to hear you had a "goo" spot go unnoticed Jack. Damn shame when you've gone so far to photograph. Hopefully you can work out a curve in photoshop to brush these out on an adjustment layer.

    I wanted to comment on tilt with tech cameras. Thankfully, focus stacking is no longer necessary with the use of tilt, except in situations where you may have a strong vertical object nearby or a drop out in the plane of focus when tilted.

    I've used an Alpa Max since 2008, but have switched over to Arca-Swiss this summer. What a joy to use tilt with wide lenses (or any lens for that matter) I didn't realize how much I had missed this control since my view camera days.
    Plus, the use of tilt isn't as fussy as with ground glass focusing. Focus as you would for hyperfocal distance and tilt a small degree or two to bring your near subjects into focus. Couldn't be easier. Love it!

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by LonnaTucker View Post
    Sorry to hear you had a "goo" spot go unnoticed Jack. Damn shame when you've gone so far to photograph.
    As Forrest's mom sad, "Stupid is as stupid does." And I was damn stupid -- it was a rookie mistake.

    Hopefully you can work out a curve in photoshop to brush these out on an adjustment layer.
    Fortunately in this particular image, it does look like rain with no relevant detail in that area, so not really a huge setback.

    I wanted to comment on tilt with tech cameras. Thankfully, focus stacking is no longer necessary with the use of tilt, except in situations where you may have a strong vertical object nearby or a drop out in the plane of focus when tilted.

    I've used an Alpa Max since 2008, but have switched over to Arca-Swiss this summer. What a joy to use tilt with wide lenses (or any lens for that matter) I didn't realize how much I had missed this control since my view camera days.

    Plus, the use of tilt isn't as fussy as with ground glass focusing. Focus as you would for hyperfocal distance and tilt a small degree or two to bring your near subjects into focus. Couldn't be easier. Love it!
    Amen, could not agree more. Doing the "Zen" approach to tilt works supremely well for landscape. Of course having had extensive experience with tilts in LF days certainly helps! (It was amazing how many images regardless of lens, I just left my F Metric set to the 3 degree tilt indent; it may be the same for the 1 degree mark on my RM3D!)

    PS: As a result of this last trip, the 23 is now on my short list
    Jack
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Arca RM3Di arrived yesterday. I have enjoyed it already and looking forward to much more. Charles

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    . First off, the light was changing fast and so I had to move very quickly to get this before the rainbow disappeared -- so it is not framed ideally, and in fact this a crop from the full IQ180 frame to get the old ruin and the bow out of the dead center.
    sort of my frustration with tech cameras so far. Whenever I take it I seem to miss a shot or two.
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    sort of my frustration with tech cameras so far. Whenever I take it I seem to miss a shot or two.
    It was the same for me when I transitioned from film MF to LF cameras. The process is slower and requires process methodology to achieve successful results. And the process methodology takes time. Time and process is why I continue to carry and use both the tech camera and the DF camera kits...

    I know several shooters here have gone 100% tech for their MF kit, while others avoid tech altogether because of the speed limitations. Clearly tech is not a good choice for somebody who has a short attention span or likes to do grab-and-go shooting. But for those willing to expend the time and effort to use it, it will pay dividends in the form of a more technically perfect image -- the cost is you'll have fewer unique compositions at the end of the day.

    For me, it's a "what mood am in" sort of thing. I do like the deliberate, thoughtful approach tech brings to the field, and I find an inner peace in working that way. However, when time is short -- like when I'm traveling with the family -- the DF is clearly the better option. If I could only have one, it would be the DF, but I count myself fortunate I now have both options at my disposal
    Jack
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Jack, this is so weird you posting about the same problem I had with a 40HR-W I purchased to possibly replace my 43XL. I assumed as the 40HR-W was such a widely used lens and this issue had never been reported before I had purchased a dud copy of the lens and didn't bother mentioning it on here.

    A quick example of the flare spot on my 40HR-W can be seen below. It was always in the centre of the lens in contrasty lighting and was plain as day when the spot was over dark foliage. Interior shots with soft lighting I could not detect the spot, but this was not to say it wasn't there. I say this because I use an Arca ML2 and focus on the ground glass with a loupe and for the life of me I couldn't get a good focus by eye with this lens. My interest in the 40HR was the f4 aperture for brighter focusing on the GG but what looked ok on the GG in the centre was quite a margin out when viewed on the laptop, surprisingly the f5.6 43XL was always there or very nearly. It was as if there was no contrast to focus the lens properly.

    I could shoot in the same lighting conditions (white sky's, dark foreground) and replicate this issue every single time over a period of 4 days testing. Move my P65+ around the image circle and the spot would stay on the same tree in the centre of the lens but shifted up, down, left, right etc around the frame. It wasn't a camera problem as I did the same shots on the 43XL after each other and they did not display any of the same problems.

    I ended up getting a refund on the lens because of this problem and stuck with the very excellent and predictable 43XL. I've considered testing the lens again to see if the problems are on a different manufacturing batch but there was so little difference between the two for light fall off and sharpness I think the 43XL is the better choice for me.

    I would seriously consider thoroughly testing your lens again as it might be something more than dirt. My copy was brand new out of the box and the first capture I noticed it and no amount of cleaning and blowing changed anything.
    I am pretty sure that Garreth and Jack are not the only owners of a
    HR-DIGARON-W 40mm WA lens .
    I am about to buy this lens , but Garreth's report confuses me a lot and I would like to know , if other users experience the same or a similar issue , but did not mention it here in the forum .
    I would be pleased to hear your experiences .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Jürgen, I am no expert on flare with the Rodie 40mm, but I received my Rodie 40mm two days ago and shot many images on a sunny day in a small steam with overhanging branches and leaves. On both days I had around a dozen images with flare near the center of the image. I did not do a careful inspection of whether the flare was always located over dark foliage. While 50 or so images were made on each day, only around a dozen each day had the very pronounced flare. On several shots I carefully examined the lens by moving my hand around the top to determine whether there was some sun striking the lens that I had not noticed...AND THERE WAS; when I held my hand so as to block the glare hitting the lens...those images turned out fine. I believe the flare was related to these outdoor lighting conditions. I KNOW there was no "goo" or anything else on the glass. I don't have an answer except my experience was that in these two lighting situations the lens did flare in a significant number of instances. I think I will follow Jack's lead and order the Arca dedicated bellows shade. Charles

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Get the Arca shades and you will be fine. Works perfectly. Never got a problem.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Thank you cs750 and Christopher

    I have the ARCA shade and used it with my ARCA 6x9 F-LINE METRIC + ORBIX .
    But I do not know how to attach that shade to the ALPA .
    Is there any device to attach that shade to an ALPA , which I do not know of ?
    I also have a LEE shade which I could attach by obtaining the correct adapter ring , but I think , the LEE shade is not as good as the ARCA shade
    when you work with shifts .

    Any attachment ideas ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Oh sorry I forgot that you were using it on an Alpa. As far as I know there is now way to attach it. You would need something that attaches to the lens. Arca has no own shading system. ( just some lens shades ) you could have a look at the Sinar arctec shading system, it works quit well and is attached to the lens. I perhaps have one for sale if you are interested. (nearly new just used 1-2 times)

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Christopher

    Thanks again . I think we have been at this point of shading discusion at an earlier thread , some time ago .
    As I think the ARCA shade is a good solution , I really never thought of , I will try to make my own adapter . I believe , it is possible and I can do it .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Which shade is used with the Arca RM3Di ? Charles

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    You can use any shade that attaches to the lens. However, I think the best way is to use Arcas own shading bellow. It works great. You can get it in three sizes. I think the middle which should be 4x5 is the best way to go.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Yes, I succumbed and just ordered the Arca bellows shade -- very well-designed and well-built, but pricey for sure. Big advantage is it's easy to use in conjunction with filters, and of course has a built-in square filter holder.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Jack

    Can you pleae give a reference to that shade .
    I have big trouble finding the correct ARCA items .
    Thanks .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Jack, this is a little off-topic. In an earlier post, you said that you would probably go with the Cambo WRS, but you seem to have gone with the Arca. Did one thing change your mind? Or was it an accumulation of small things?
    From this post, I see that you owned an Arca in the LF days.
    Thanks, your posts always have a strong element of common sense to them.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    He is just a gear slut trust me. LOL

    I know Jack will answer this but the Arca is very precise on tilt compared to the WRS. The WRS is a great tech cam and smaller than the Arca and I am looking at getting one but the Arca is just a notch better on movements and Jack likes the focusing setup on the Arca . I like the Cambo , Alpa focusing. Matter of preference. They both are extremely good and just flat out work well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by lenslover View Post
    Jack, this is a little off-topic. In an earlier post, you said that you would probably go with the Cambo WRS, but you seem to have gone with the Arca. Did one thing change your mind? Or was it an accumulation of small things?
    From this post, I see that you owned an Arca in the LF days.
    Thanks, your posts always have a strong element of common sense to them.
    There were a few things that moved me to Arca. Without belittling the Cambo in any way, the first was the build quality of the Arca is top notch, and IMHO the Cambo is a little behind here --- not bad mind you, just not in the same league for precision and smoothness as the Arca. Second was the precision of the tilt mechanism -- the Arca again is more precise and most importantly does zero accurately where the Cambo I demoed had enough play that a true zero was difficult to achieve reliably. The next thing was focus granularity -- the Arca helical is very fine and has a decent total throw for the range of tech lens focals, and being on the body you have no need to shim anything, simply make an offset calibration adjustment instead. Next was cost -- by the time you put three lenses in Cambo TS mounts, the total cost of the system was more than the Arca. Finally, I did own an F-Metric in my LF days and loved the precision, ease of use and self-locking adjustments -- and the RM3D carries that on, using similar precision self-locking rise, shift and tilt adjusters.

    One significant point in favor of the Cambo, is with its TS lensmount you do get tilt AND swing at the same time -- not so with the Arca, only swing or tilt.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    One other thing is the Arca body does the tilting so all lenses will tilt. Cambo you have to buy the tilt/ swing mount for each lens.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Posted exactly same time here sorry for the redundancy post
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Jack

    Can you pleae give a reference to that shade .
    I have big trouble finding the correct ARCA items .
    Thanks .
    I am still confirming, but I think it's product number 111000 bellows hood that includes a 111007 connecting rod. There is also an optional dog-leg rod I am trying to get the part number for -- it allows a bit of positioning to make better way for the tech cables and such.
    Jack
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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    It seems to me that the old-fashioned solution of a coupled rangefinder, even if it is a laser, is a viable solution. Arca has the wiring built in for this, but uses the unobtainable and problematic sonic device.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Thanks Jack .

    Off topic once more . The 111000 is the 6x9 size , which I have still from my LF days , but it is too small for wide angle .
    Then there is a 110+141 size and a 4x5 (171) size , but I can not find the size in cm anywhere .

    Which model did you order ? And will that model be ok for the 4/40 DIGARON-W ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Thanks Jack .

    Off topic once more . The 111000 is the 6x9 size , which I have still from my LF days , but it is too small for wide angle .
    Then there is a 110+141 size and a 4x5 (171) size , but I can not find the size in cm anywhere .

    Which model did you order ? And will that model be ok for the 4/40 DIGARON-W ?
    I ordered the 111000 for 6x9, and specifically for my 40 HR-W. I am told it is the proper shade for the RM3's. However, I am also told the RM3Di needs the straight rod, while the older RM3D uses the dog-leg mounting rod. Which rod do you have? When you say it is too small for wideangle, exactly what do you mean -- that it won't extend far enough, or isn't big enough diameter?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    OTOH swing is not bad to have either:

    -bob

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Jack it isn't big enough for the 32. It works fine with the 40, but i prefer the 4x5 version.

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    Re: Tech Cams: Why I like tilt

    Okay time for my rant:

    So here I sit in the maybe the brightest sun on the planet and you take a slow cam and make it even slower to work with when you have the best 5 finger hand tool on the planet your left hand and you leave that for playing what pocket pool. This is not working guys this is using shiny chrome ornaments on the hood of your car. Just sayin

    I never had flare in my life with the trusty hand tool.

    It just had to be said.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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