A
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
A
andershald
Guest
Re: Considering the H3DII-31 (Nearly there!)
The Sunday shoot.
Busy week, so it has taken me a while to find time to write about my experiences with the three systems lent to me for testing. First of all I feel really priviledged to have been able to test these systems out as thoroughly as I have, I know some of you guys would have to travel far just to be able to handle these cameras.
Below are some notes on my experiences and on my decisionmaking process when choosing a back. I am not a professional reviewer, nor is it my business to declare one system better than another. I am relating a real life experience with these backs relative to my way of shooting and my particular needs. You could find that another back suits you better and I cannot stress enough the importance of testing the equipment before buying, if at all possible.
I did a shoot with four kids modelling, a make-up artist, a stylist and an assistant, exactly as I would do on a job. We shot outdoors in perfect shooting weather, almost no wind and a slightly overcast sky with occasional rays of sun.
Handling three camera systems at once was only slightly confusing
and I had decided that rather than 'test', I would 'shoot' with the cameras. All the cameras and backs are very intuitive, I had set them up in advance, so it was really just a matter of shooting away. Once in a while a back stopped and I had to figure out why. On most occasions (see below) it was a matter of feeding the back a new CF card or a fresh battery. Not being familiar with the back, I needed to stop and look at the backs to figure out which it was, but that is just a matter of knowing the camera.
The only actual problem that I had was with the Leaf back ‘freezing’. Twice in a 2½ hour shoot it just froze. I couldn’t turn it on or off and had to remove the battery and restart the back, at which point it worked fine again. I asked the dealer about it and he knew of the problem but suggested that it didn’t happen very often, it was easily fixed (by removing the battery and restarting the back) and that Leaf would probably fix this in a firmware update in the future. He suggested that it probably happened when shooting too fast. I must say that this rocked my impression of the Leaf back somewhat. Anyone with A75s experience who recognize this, or is it this specific back? I have heard before that shooting too fast can corrupt files, from someone shooting with a P30+, but all my files from the day were fine. And I shot fast!
The Contax camera felt good, most of my images were sharp using manual focus. I also missed a few, but so does my Canon autofocus. I didn’t run out of battery once and I used the battery grip. Whether I ‘dare’ to invest in and base my MFDB choice on an obsolete system, I haven’t quite decided yet, but it did feel great. The battery’s position under the Leaf back rendered the vertical grip useless, stealing the place where the base of the hand would sit, only slightly annoying, but one up for the P30+.
The Hasselblad H3DII-31 was the camera that felt the most effortless to use. It just works. It shoots fast and makes no fuss. This is in MY case both good and bad. Ofcourse it is great that everything works so well, and it really does, but what I wanted from a medium format camera is a little ‘resistance’. I feel that I have lost a bit of my shooting style with the Canon, simply because the camera runs away with me during the shoot. This may sound a little silly, but that’s how I feel. If Hasselblad’s intention was to build a camera that works as well as a DSLR they have been very succesful. The user interface on the Hasselblad back is also by far the fastest, nicest and most intuitive to use.
The PhaseOne back on Mamiya made it clear that the Mamiya camera system is not for me. It doesn’t feel as nice as either the Contax or the Hasselblad and it suffers from one terrible design flaw that I hope Mamiya/PhaseOne will fix in the first possible firmware update. In between shots the display in both finder and top LCD flashed DB BUSY, which means that in the 1.25 seconds between each shot, I can’t see the camera settings. If I wish to use that 1.25 seconds to change aperture and be ready to shoot when the back is ready, I have to do it blind or count clicks on the wheel. There is no aperture ring on the lens that I could look at. This feature was surely designed by an engineer whos concern was to prevent the photographer from shooting to fast and corrupting files, not by a photographer. The P30+ back worked a treat although I find it a little fiddly to check focus, using the alternating directional buttons. Hasselblads solution is far superior for this. The leaf back zooms in via taps on the screen, but it is my impression that it is a lot slower than the Hasselblad at zooming (the files are also slightly larger).
Reviewing the files from the shoot was a bit of a headache, using three different pieces of software. I am a pc user (and a happy one), I like to process files in ACR, I use Iview Media Pro on the shoot to review files as I load them onto the laptop from the cards. The reviewing of files is
a) to make sure I have what I need
b) to see what works and what doesn’t and
c) to show the client that we are good.
Iview (or Microsoft Expression Media as it is now called) is really good and fast for that. The Leaf files crashed my Iview Media Pro. I downloaded Expression and got a preview without a crash, so I would need to upgrade to Expression Media ($200). With the Phase files I got a preview in Iview but the Hasselblad files didn’t even load into Iview. The Leaf and Phase files I can process in ACR but not the Hasselblad files (unless I first turn them into DNG files, but I am a working pro, not an occasional snapper, I often produce 1-2000 files a day on my Canon, so one less step is a BIG step ahead).
I processed similar shots from all three backs in their proprietary software (Leaf Capture, Capture One 4 and Flexcolor…Hasselblad offered that I can try Phocus at the dealers place or wait until Photokina and get the full version software for free).
I really like the Leaf files straight out of the back. The colours are really soft and smooth. The Phase files were a bit too crisp at the default settings, much nicer when the default sharpening was switched off. The Hasselblad files had some of the softness that I like about the Leaf files. Now, I am not a digital tech guru or a pixel expert. I printed all my own work for 15 years, so I know what I like, and that is what I base my findings on. It is quite possible that you might hate the Leaf files and love the Phase files. BUT and here it comes: Once I had processed the files, with no sharpening, pulled them into Photoshop, adjusted them to my liking and sharpened them…there was virtually no difference. Even while working on them I had to check the metadata to remind myself which back I had shot the image on. The Leaf files were slightly larger being a 33 megapixel back, but the difference is very, very small. So fotografz (Mark) was absolutely right, when he commented, that there is really not much difference in the quality of the files the backs can produce.
Choosing a back has more to do with preferences in user interface, software and camera system, than with file quality. I am not saying there is no difference...I am saying that it is the least important factor, in my opinion.
...continued below...
The Sunday shoot.
Busy week, so it has taken me a while to find time to write about my experiences with the three systems lent to me for testing. First of all I feel really priviledged to have been able to test these systems out as thoroughly as I have, I know some of you guys would have to travel far just to be able to handle these cameras.
Below are some notes on my experiences and on my decisionmaking process when choosing a back. I am not a professional reviewer, nor is it my business to declare one system better than another. I am relating a real life experience with these backs relative to my way of shooting and my particular needs. You could find that another back suits you better and I cannot stress enough the importance of testing the equipment before buying, if at all possible.
I did a shoot with four kids modelling, a make-up artist, a stylist and an assistant, exactly as I would do on a job. We shot outdoors in perfect shooting weather, almost no wind and a slightly overcast sky with occasional rays of sun.
Handling three camera systems at once was only slightly confusing
and I had decided that rather than 'test', I would 'shoot' with the cameras. All the cameras and backs are very intuitive, I had set them up in advance, so it was really just a matter of shooting away. Once in a while a back stopped and I had to figure out why. On most occasions (see below) it was a matter of feeding the back a new CF card or a fresh battery. Not being familiar with the back, I needed to stop and look at the backs to figure out which it was, but that is just a matter of knowing the camera. The only actual problem that I had was with the Leaf back ‘freezing’. Twice in a 2½ hour shoot it just froze. I couldn’t turn it on or off and had to remove the battery and restart the back, at which point it worked fine again. I asked the dealer about it and he knew of the problem but suggested that it didn’t happen very often, it was easily fixed (by removing the battery and restarting the back) and that Leaf would probably fix this in a firmware update in the future. He suggested that it probably happened when shooting too fast. I must say that this rocked my impression of the Leaf back somewhat. Anyone with A75s experience who recognize this, or is it this specific back? I have heard before that shooting too fast can corrupt files, from someone shooting with a P30+, but all my files from the day were fine. And I shot fast!
The Contax camera felt good, most of my images were sharp using manual focus. I also missed a few, but so does my Canon autofocus. I didn’t run out of battery once and I used the battery grip. Whether I ‘dare’ to invest in and base my MFDB choice on an obsolete system, I haven’t quite decided yet, but it did feel great. The battery’s position under the Leaf back rendered the vertical grip useless, stealing the place where the base of the hand would sit, only slightly annoying, but one up for the P30+.
The Hasselblad H3DII-31 was the camera that felt the most effortless to use. It just works. It shoots fast and makes no fuss. This is in MY case both good and bad. Ofcourse it is great that everything works so well, and it really does, but what I wanted from a medium format camera is a little ‘resistance’. I feel that I have lost a bit of my shooting style with the Canon, simply because the camera runs away with me during the shoot. This may sound a little silly, but that’s how I feel. If Hasselblad’s intention was to build a camera that works as well as a DSLR they have been very succesful. The user interface on the Hasselblad back is also by far the fastest, nicest and most intuitive to use.
The PhaseOne back on Mamiya made it clear that the Mamiya camera system is not for me. It doesn’t feel as nice as either the Contax or the Hasselblad and it suffers from one terrible design flaw that I hope Mamiya/PhaseOne will fix in the first possible firmware update. In between shots the display in both finder and top LCD flashed DB BUSY, which means that in the 1.25 seconds between each shot, I can’t see the camera settings. If I wish to use that 1.25 seconds to change aperture and be ready to shoot when the back is ready, I have to do it blind or count clicks on the wheel. There is no aperture ring on the lens that I could look at. This feature was surely designed by an engineer whos concern was to prevent the photographer from shooting to fast and corrupting files, not by a photographer. The P30+ back worked a treat although I find it a little fiddly to check focus, using the alternating directional buttons. Hasselblads solution is far superior for this. The leaf back zooms in via taps on the screen, but it is my impression that it is a lot slower than the Hasselblad at zooming (the files are also slightly larger).
Reviewing the files from the shoot was a bit of a headache, using three different pieces of software. I am a pc user (and a happy one), I like to process files in ACR, I use Iview Media Pro on the shoot to review files as I load them onto the laptop from the cards. The reviewing of files is
a) to make sure I have what I need
b) to see what works and what doesn’t and
c) to show the client that we are good.
Iview (or Microsoft Expression Media as it is now called) is really good and fast for that. The Leaf files crashed my Iview Media Pro. I downloaded Expression and got a preview without a crash, so I would need to upgrade to Expression Media ($200). With the Phase files I got a preview in Iview but the Hasselblad files didn’t even load into Iview. The Leaf and Phase files I can process in ACR but not the Hasselblad files (unless I first turn them into DNG files, but I am a working pro, not an occasional snapper, I often produce 1-2000 files a day on my Canon, so one less step is a BIG step ahead).
I processed similar shots from all three backs in their proprietary software (Leaf Capture, Capture One 4 and Flexcolor…Hasselblad offered that I can try Phocus at the dealers place or wait until Photokina and get the full version software for free).
I really like the Leaf files straight out of the back. The colours are really soft and smooth. The Phase files were a bit too crisp at the default settings, much nicer when the default sharpening was switched off. The Hasselblad files had some of the softness that I like about the Leaf files. Now, I am not a digital tech guru or a pixel expert. I printed all my own work for 15 years, so I know what I like, and that is what I base my findings on. It is quite possible that you might hate the Leaf files and love the Phase files. BUT and here it comes: Once I had processed the files, with no sharpening, pulled them into Photoshop, adjusted them to my liking and sharpened them…there was virtually no difference. Even while working on them I had to check the metadata to remind myself which back I had shot the image on. The Leaf files were slightly larger being a 33 megapixel back, but the difference is very, very small. So fotografz (Mark) was absolutely right, when he commented, that there is really not much difference in the quality of the files the backs can produce.
Choosing a back has more to do with preferences in user interface, software and camera system, than with file quality. I am not saying there is no difference...I am saying that it is the least important factor, in my opinion.
...continued below...
A
andershald
Guest
...continued from above...
I still haven’t chosen a system, and I still intend to wait until Photokina. There is exciting news, with the new Leaf backs and Sinar systems and who knows what will happen to prices in the next two weeks.
But to sum up the pros and cons FOR ME:
H3DII-31 - is a super competent camera, works a treat, is available in rental most places, is very much alive and kicking, is the lowest priced contender although the system components evens that out some. But it might be too much like an oversized DSLR for my requirements. I need a little resistance. The dependence on proprietary software is annoying and not knowing Phocus, this could be the deciding factor against this system, once I do get to test the software. Particularly the review speed in the shooting situation that I now get from Iview will be sorely missed if Phocus can not match it.
The Contax/Leaf A75s – I have really fallen for the Contax. In the first post in this thread I list all the reasons why the Contax is not for me, but love moves in mysterious ways and sometimes it is right to follow your heart (and sometimes wrong, I don’t know which yet). The Contax is not perfect, the ergonomics aren’t perfect, the hand grip is slightly too small, but the batterygrip helps. The vertical grip, even without the Leaf battery in the way, is still a far cry from the vertical grip on my 1dsII, but it’s a solidly built manual camera, no LCD, but a real aperture ring with a nice clicking sound and properly dampened focussing. The Leaf back performed well, apart from the freezing issue. The files are lovely and it has slightly more resolution, being a bigger chip, and is also more expensive being a bigger chip. The user interface is better than Phase Ones, but not as good as Hasselblads. The back has a very sophisticated system for entering metadata and presettings of all sorts. The Leaf Capture software is far better than Flexcolour (it doesn’t take much) but lacks a lot of the sophistication of ACR and is still a little behind Capture One I think. BUT the files can be opened in ACR which I like a lot. I am not sure, and perhaps Yair can clarify, the speed of the A75s is faster when the files are compressed (in which case they must be opened in Leaf Capture)? I got the feeling that when shooting uncompressed the back was a little slower, but I am not sure. The fact that I can continue to use both ACR and Iview (or Expression) is a big bonus. In Iview/Expression I can only see a low resolution file, where as with the Canon files I get full resolution so I can check sharpness. The same goes for the Phase One files.
The Mamiya PhaseOne p30+ - I wasn’t so impressed with the Mamiya camera, in particular the design blip with the LCD blank out. But the P30+ back would be a good alternative to the Leaf back, if I went for the Contax solution. Also the battery integration in the P30+ makes the vertical grip more useful. The files from the P30+ are also lovely when the default sharpening in C1 or ACR is removed and I can use the files in my current workflow, same as Leaf. I think there is a Pro version of Capture One 4 on the way, and it will be interesting to see what they come up with, with a little luck it is introduced at Photokina? It could also influence the decision.
All the systems have pros and cons. I haven’t decided on one over the other yet. Price is a factor and I still have concerns about Contax being obsolete. But when I do make my decision, around the time of Photokina, I will post my decision and what swayed me one way or the other.
Thanks for bearing over with my endless ramblings about choosing a camera, even my loving and very very patient wife has started saying “just buy the darned thing and get on with it”…
Best regards,
Anders
www.andershald.com
I still haven’t chosen a system, and I still intend to wait until Photokina. There is exciting news, with the new Leaf backs and Sinar systems and who knows what will happen to prices in the next two weeks.
But to sum up the pros and cons FOR ME:
H3DII-31 - is a super competent camera, works a treat, is available in rental most places, is very much alive and kicking, is the lowest priced contender although the system components evens that out some. But it might be too much like an oversized DSLR for my requirements. I need a little resistance. The dependence on proprietary software is annoying and not knowing Phocus, this could be the deciding factor against this system, once I do get to test the software. Particularly the review speed in the shooting situation that I now get from Iview will be sorely missed if Phocus can not match it.
The Contax/Leaf A75s – I have really fallen for the Contax. In the first post in this thread I list all the reasons why the Contax is not for me, but love moves in mysterious ways and sometimes it is right to follow your heart (and sometimes wrong, I don’t know which yet). The Contax is not perfect, the ergonomics aren’t perfect, the hand grip is slightly too small, but the batterygrip helps. The vertical grip, even without the Leaf battery in the way, is still a far cry from the vertical grip on my 1dsII, but it’s a solidly built manual camera, no LCD, but a real aperture ring with a nice clicking sound and properly dampened focussing. The Leaf back performed well, apart from the freezing issue. The files are lovely and it has slightly more resolution, being a bigger chip, and is also more expensive being a bigger chip. The user interface is better than Phase Ones, but not as good as Hasselblads. The back has a very sophisticated system for entering metadata and presettings of all sorts. The Leaf Capture software is far better than Flexcolour (it doesn’t take much) but lacks a lot of the sophistication of ACR and is still a little behind Capture One I think. BUT the files can be opened in ACR which I like a lot. I am not sure, and perhaps Yair can clarify, the speed of the A75s is faster when the files are compressed (in which case they must be opened in Leaf Capture)? I got the feeling that when shooting uncompressed the back was a little slower, but I am not sure. The fact that I can continue to use both ACR and Iview (or Expression) is a big bonus. In Iview/Expression I can only see a low resolution file, where as with the Canon files I get full resolution so I can check sharpness. The same goes for the Phase One files.
The Mamiya PhaseOne p30+ - I wasn’t so impressed with the Mamiya camera, in particular the design blip with the LCD blank out. But the P30+ back would be a good alternative to the Leaf back, if I went for the Contax solution. Also the battery integration in the P30+ makes the vertical grip more useful. The files from the P30+ are also lovely when the default sharpening in C1 or ACR is removed and I can use the files in my current workflow, same as Leaf. I think there is a Pro version of Capture One 4 on the way, and it will be interesting to see what they come up with, with a little luck it is introduced at Photokina? It could also influence the decision.
All the systems have pros and cons. I haven’t decided on one over the other yet. Price is a factor and I still have concerns about Contax being obsolete. But when I do make my decision, around the time of Photokina, I will post my decision and what swayed me one way or the other.
Thanks for bearing over with my endless ramblings about choosing a camera, even my loving and very very patient wife has started saying “just buy the darned thing and get on with it”…
Best regards,
Anders
www.andershald.com
Anders,
That's one heck of a review you've written there I shot the Contax 645/Leaf 75S combination for several years following the lead of my friend and mentor, Chuck Jones. The issue of the back freezing up on occasion is not specific to the back you used. IIRC, it's an issue ONLY with the Leaf and Contax combo, and, while annoying, was not a major inconvenience for me. You can release the battery and click it back in place in a second. The only real delay is waiting for the back to power up again... and, while it happens from time to time, it didn't happen often enough (for me) to consider it a major issue. BTW, if you haven't checked out the gear for sale forum, Chuck is selling his Aptus 75S and Contax kit right now and probably has any glass you would be looking for, including the Contax 55mm.
That's one heck of a review you've written there
I shot the Contax 645/Leaf 75S combination for several years following the lead of my friend and mentor, Chuck Jones. The issue of the back freezing up on occasion is not specific to the back you used. IIRC, it's an issue ONLY with the Leaf and Contax combo, and, while annoying, was not a major inconvenience for me. You can release the battery and click it back in place in a second. The only real delay is waiting for the back to power up again... and, while it happens from time to time, it didn't happen often enough (for me) to consider it a major issue. BTW, if you haven't checked out the gear for sale forum, Chuck is selling his Aptus 75S and Contax kit right now and probably has any glass you would be looking for, including the Contax 55mm.
A
andershald
Guest
Hi David.
Thanks for the additional info, I am glad to hear that it's a known problem (and not just me). If I decide on the Contax solution I'll be sure to check it out. Part of me like the 'easiness' of the Hasselblad, but I also love the Contax lenses. I am going to let the issue 'bake' until Photokina and all the news have been announced and then make whatever decision feels right at the time.
When I do make a choice I feel confident that I get it right, I certainly feel that I have done my homework :bugeyes: he he.
Anders
Thanks for the additional info, I am glad to hear that it's a known problem (and not just me). If I decide on the Contax solution I'll be sure to check it out. Part of me like the 'easiness' of the Hasselblad, but I also love the Contax lenses. I am going to let the issue 'bake' until Photokina and all the news have been announced and then make whatever decision feels right at the time.
When I do make a choice I feel confident that I get it right, I certainly feel that I have done my homework :bugeyes: he he.
Anders
Chuck Jones
Subscriber Member
Great review Anders! You didn't miss much, though I will toss in a couple of my own observations from shooting these systems myself also. No question the Hassy is the best integrated system. Should be, as it is all made by the same manufacturer. I don't personally like the Fujiblad lenses nearly as much as I like the Zeiss glass on the Contax though. I also detest the mirror slap in that Hassy beast when trying to shoot in lowered light or slow shutter speed for effect. Like to drove me nuts the one time I tried it, and I swore then and there never again. The Hassy control positions are also a bit strange to my hands, but as you say, that could just be a lack of experience shooting it.
Build and finish quality on the Hassy always seemed good to me, as does the Contax. Both feel like a solidly built platform that should hold up under hard use. I know the Contax is built like a tank. Over five years shooting my system with multiple bodies, and not a single failure. Sure took the worry out of them no longer making new bodies for me, as I imagine my two remaining bodies will likely still be going strong when I am long gone and in the box. Same with the lenses, they are large and heavy, but also built to take the rigors of hard daily use, something my own have never had, but having seen many a rental they truly are up to the roughest task.
The Contax system has been a real sweetheart for me. It has the largest number of available components of any offering today. With my NAM-1, I constantly also use the best of the Hassy glass lineup, in addition to the extensive and excellent glass made for the Contax itself. I also even have the Auto-Bellows, which does work as a poor man's view camera setup with full movements. Integration with digital backs does work well, though the Contax has some quirks that show up occasionally. Like your freezing up problem with the Aptus. Mine did this as well. It is caused by the Contax body going into "sleep" mode, which it does way too quickly for my taste to conserve on battery power. If you try and expose a frame before waiting the second or so for the body to "wake-up" you will get the freeze. I've also had it happen by overshooting the frame rate before the beep is heard, though you do get used to a nice working rhythm after a sort time using it. Since the Contax is no longer made, and really does not need any blasted firmware "updates" this problem is just something you learn to work around. Having that battery hanging down below the back does make it real quick to change out when necessary, or pull and reset the whole mess when needed. Never proved to be more than a minor annoyance for myself, and I am known to shoot it pretty darn hard at times <Smile>. If you go the Contax route, do be sure and buy high capacity rechargeable batteries for the optional grip. Makes life a LOT easier.
As for the Mamiya system, I never owned one, at least not yet. It is a whole lot lighter than either of the other two, so for me today that would be a large advantage. I sure would miss the wonderful controls and their tactile feel on the Contax though. Having shot one recently, I did find the glass quality acceptable, if the range is a bit limited. Again, and adapter and you are all set using Hassy V glass. My only major concern was the overall build quality being inferior to the other two systems, but there sure are a lot of them out there I know of, and not many reported problems, so guess this is not a concern.
Anders, if you have any other specific questions, please feel free to direct them my way. I'll try and set you strait on anything I know about. And if you do decide to go the Aptus / Contax route, let me know. Mine is up for sale now, as David said.
Build and finish quality on the Hassy always seemed good to me, as does the Contax. Both feel like a solidly built platform that should hold up under hard use. I know the Contax is built like a tank. Over five years shooting my system with multiple bodies, and not a single failure. Sure took the worry out of them no longer making new bodies for me, as I imagine my two remaining bodies will likely still be going strong when I am long gone and in the box. Same with the lenses, they are large and heavy, but also built to take the rigors of hard daily use, something my own have never had, but having seen many a rental they truly are up to the roughest task.
The Contax system has been a real sweetheart for me. It has the largest number of available components of any offering today. With my NAM-1, I constantly also use the best of the Hassy glass lineup, in addition to the extensive and excellent glass made for the Contax itself. I also even have the Auto-Bellows, which does work as a poor man's view camera setup with full movements. Integration with digital backs does work well, though the Contax has some quirks that show up occasionally. Like your freezing up problem with the Aptus. Mine did this as well. It is caused by the Contax body going into "sleep" mode, which it does way too quickly for my taste to conserve on battery power. If you try and expose a frame before waiting the second or so for the body to "wake-up" you will get the freeze. I've also had it happen by overshooting the frame rate before the beep is heard, though you do get used to a nice working rhythm after a sort time using it. Since the Contax is no longer made, and really does not need any blasted firmware "updates" this problem is just something you learn to work around. Having that battery hanging down below the back does make it real quick to change out when necessary, or pull and reset the whole mess when needed. Never proved to be more than a minor annoyance for myself, and I am known to shoot it pretty darn hard at times <Smile>. If you go the Contax route, do be sure and buy high capacity rechargeable batteries for the optional grip. Makes life a LOT easier.
As for the Mamiya system, I never owned one, at least not yet. It is a whole lot lighter than either of the other two, so for me today that would be a large advantage. I sure would miss the wonderful controls and their tactile feel on the Contax though. Having shot one recently, I did find the glass quality acceptable, if the range is a bit limited. Again, and adapter and you are all set using Hassy V glass. My only major concern was the overall build quality being inferior to the other two systems, but there sure are a lot of them out there I know of, and not many reported problems, so guess this is not a concern.
Anders, if you have any other specific questions, please feel free to direct them my way. I'll try and set you strait on anything I know about. And if you do decide to go the Aptus / Contax route, let me know. Mine is up for sale now, as David said.
A
andershald
Guest
Hi Chuck.
Great input.
"I don't personally like the Fujiblad lenses nearly as much as I like the Zeiss glass on the Contax though." I couldn't agree more. The Hassy feels great and handles great, but there is something about the lenses that isn't all that exciting.
I am glad to hear that you have such good experience with the durability of the Contax, that is also my impression, but there are no more being made, so a Contax investment would rely on cameras found second hand.
I think the Mamiya is both a competent and solid enough system, but it doesn't appeal to me. I am sure the optics are good too. But I feel that a camera as a tool has to have something about it that is special to the user and I know that I would love showing up at work with a Contax kit in my bag...
If I have more Contax related questions, I'll be sure to call on your expertise.
Thanks a lot.
Anders
Great input.
"I don't personally like the Fujiblad lenses nearly as much as I like the Zeiss glass on the Contax though." I couldn't agree more. The Hassy feels great and handles great, but there is something about the lenses that isn't all that exciting.
I am glad to hear that you have such good experience with the durability of the Contax, that is also my impression, but there are no more being made, so a Contax investment would rely on cameras found second hand.
I think the Mamiya is both a competent and solid enough system, but it doesn't appeal to me. I am sure the optics are good too. But I feel that a camera as a tool has to have something about it that is special to the user and I know that I would love showing up at work with a Contax kit in my bag...
If I have more Contax related questions, I'll be sure to call on your expertise.
Thanks a lot.
Anders
woodyspedden
New member
I have no experience with the Contax lenses on MF (I did own all of the 35mm lenses having bought the original RTS in 1975 and still have the RTS III).BUt I must say that the V lenses made by Zeiss are more appealing to me than the Fujiblads. But the Fuji 28mm is a really great lens and the 100 2.2 as well. I don't own any other of the Fuji lenses since I have a whole portfolio of the V lenses and don't consider autofocus that important.
I find the ergonomics of the Hassy to be very very good. In less than a day of shooting I found I did not have to take my eye from the finder to change settings. Also the readability of the top LCD display is very good, even in the brightest of sunlight so having the histogram available on that display works extremely well.
I do agree that the mirror slap on the H3D is annoying (at least at first). However with the ability to put a programmable delay on the shutter firing relative to mirror up makes for a low level of shake. Hey at least the mirror slap is better than the old 500 series. The first time I shot with one of those I thought the camera was going to jump out of my hands. LOL!
Just a few thoughts
Woody
I find the ergonomics of the Hassy to be very very good. In less than a day of shooting I found I did not have to take my eye from the finder to change settings. Also the readability of the top LCD display is very good, even in the brightest of sunlight so having the histogram available on that display works extremely well.
I do agree that the mirror slap on the H3D is annoying (at least at first). However with the ability to put a programmable delay on the shutter firing relative to mirror up makes for a low level of shake. Hey at least the mirror slap is better than the old 500 series. The first time I shot with one of those I thought the camera was going to jump out of my hands. LOL!
Just a few thoughts
Woody
A
andershald
Guest
Hi Woody.
I agree with you on almost every point. The Ergonomics are really good and the histogram in the grip is a great design feature. I haven't tried the 28mm as it is outside my normal use, but the 100 is a great lens.
The mirrorslap on the H3DII and on The Mamiya III are both a lot more noticeable than on the Contax which is incredibly smooth.
Best regards,
Anders
I agree with you on almost every point. The Ergonomics are really good and the histogram in the grip is a great design feature. I haven't tried the 28mm as it is outside my normal use, but the 100 is a great lens.
The mirrorslap on the H3DII and on The Mamiya III are both a lot more noticeable than on the Contax which is incredibly smooth.
Best regards,
Anders
A
andershald
Guest
Oh, I started a new thread with the conclusion to this thread, in spontaneous excitement over having finally made a decision. I guess I'd better post the conclusion here too, in case anyone comes looking for 'The End'.
Here goes:
The decision has finally been made, after much deliberation and lots of valuable input from you guys, I have decided to buy a P30+ on a Contax 645.
It was a really close race between the various systems as they all produce great results, the dealers offer excellent service and the quality of the various backs is undeniable.
The reasons for going with the P30+ is that the files will fit straight into the workflow I have now Iview Media (Expression Media) for reviewing on the shoot and ACR for processing. As an owner of the previous Capture One Pro I will get a free upgrade to the new version, so that is an option. I believe this version of the software will contain Digital Apo Correction-like functions for most of the Contax lenses.
I decided against the Leaf system because I was slightly worried about the issue of freezing on the A75s. I decided against the Hasselblad because the system is moving towards a DSLR 'feel' which it does very well, but that is something that I wanted to move away from. When the Nordic sales manager told me about the huge market share they have and how everyone is buying Hasselblads, that actually also pushed me away from the system. I feel that I need to differentiate myself a bit from the competion. With the Canons for a while everyone were using the 1dsII and the same 3 or 4 lenses, no wonder there is a 'sameness' to the images.
Both Leaf and Hasselblad are fine systems, I chose based on a gut feeling and what I felt was right for my type of work.
The Contax system was love at first sight. I know it is no longer made, I know servicing will be slow, I know it is not perfect and the AF is slow, but I intend to manual focus most of the time, which works very well with those lenses. I love the lenses, the feel of the lenses AND the price of these wonderful Zeiss lenses on the second hand market.
I am buying a near new Contax kit from Phase One with the P30+ back, the rest of the stuff I will start looking for second hand. I have found most of the lenses I need here in Copenhagen, and also a spare body in good condition. I plan on getting the 45, 55, 80 and either the 120 or the 140.
Can any of the Contax users/experts here tell me weather I should go for the 120 or the 140? I used to have the 120 macro for the V system so I know the optical quality is great, but how does it compare to the 140. From looking at images it looks like the barrel extends by pulling it out, or is that just the barrel extension from turning the focus ring? The lens would be a portrait lens, more than a macro lens, I like low depth of field so perhaps the 140 is a better choice for me. Suggestions welcome...
I think the news from Photokina about the alliance between Phase One and Leica are very interesting and shows good signs for the Phase One camera system in the future, but I need a system now. The Contax and P30+ is not at the very highest end in terms of price and should I decide to stick with the P30+ and switch to the Phase system in a few years time, I can have the mount changed...I guess.
So, now it is just some paper work, and then wait for delivery.
Thanks for all the input and suggestions and really valuable insights I have been given from this great forum. I'll stick around and return the favor.
Best regards,
Anders
Here goes:
The decision has finally been made, after much deliberation and lots of valuable input from you guys, I have decided to buy a P30+ on a Contax 645.
It was a really close race between the various systems as they all produce great results, the dealers offer excellent service and the quality of the various backs is undeniable.
The reasons for going with the P30+ is that the files will fit straight into the workflow I have now Iview Media (Expression Media) for reviewing on the shoot and ACR for processing. As an owner of the previous Capture One Pro I will get a free upgrade to the new version, so that is an option. I believe this version of the software will contain Digital Apo Correction-like functions for most of the Contax lenses.
I decided against the Leaf system because I was slightly worried about the issue of freezing on the A75s. I decided against the Hasselblad because the system is moving towards a DSLR 'feel' which it does very well, but that is something that I wanted to move away from. When the Nordic sales manager told me about the huge market share they have and how everyone is buying Hasselblads, that actually also pushed me away from the system. I feel that I need to differentiate myself a bit from the competion. With the Canons for a while everyone were using the 1dsII and the same 3 or 4 lenses, no wonder there is a 'sameness' to the images.
Both Leaf and Hasselblad are fine systems, I chose based on a gut feeling and what I felt was right for my type of work.
The Contax system was love at first sight. I know it is no longer made, I know servicing will be slow, I know it is not perfect and the AF is slow, but I intend to manual focus most of the time, which works very well with those lenses. I love the lenses, the feel of the lenses AND the price of these wonderful Zeiss lenses on the second hand market.
I am buying a near new Contax kit from Phase One with the P30+ back, the rest of the stuff I will start looking for second hand. I have found most of the lenses I need here in Copenhagen, and also a spare body in good condition. I plan on getting the 45, 55, 80 and either the 120 or the 140.
Can any of the Contax users/experts here tell me weather I should go for the 120 or the 140? I used to have the 120 macro for the V system so I know the optical quality is great, but how does it compare to the 140. From looking at images it looks like the barrel extends by pulling it out, or is that just the barrel extension from turning the focus ring? The lens would be a portrait lens, more than a macro lens, I like low depth of field so perhaps the 140 is a better choice for me. Suggestions welcome...
I think the news from Photokina about the alliance between Phase One and Leica are very interesting and shows good signs for the Phase One camera system in the future, but I need a system now. The Contax and P30+ is not at the very highest end in terms of price and should I decide to stick with the P30+ and switch to the Phase system in a few years time, I can have the mount changed...I guess.
So, now it is just some paper work, and then wait for delivery.
Thanks for all the input and suggestions and really valuable insights I have been given from this great forum. I'll stick around and return the favor.
Best regards,
Anders
A
andershald
Guest
Hi Mitchell.
First of all I was slightly biased against the Hy6 as it is a first generation camera, there are bound to be some issues that will be sorted out in second and third genereation. The cost, when I started looking was much higher and even now the lenses are also very expensive.
The few times I have been in touch with the local dealer (for other products) I have found them to be completely asleep. I have called them a few times to get prices in various bits of kit, they don't call back, when I call them they seem surprised at my impatience over not getting a simple list price on a stock item the day after calling about it and so on. I have very little patience for that. Particularly when I see how attentive the Hasselblad, Phase One and Leaf dealers have been the last few weeks.
A friend of mine who had been looking at the Sinar said that he had never seen one with the battery charged...
I am sure the Sinar is a fine system and I am sure the lenses are fabulous, Sinar was just not 'on the table' so to speak.
I am sure I will be very happy with the Contax Zeiss glass.
Best regards,
Anders
First of all I was slightly biased against the Hy6 as it is a first generation camera, there are bound to be some issues that will be sorted out in second and third genereation. The cost, when I started looking was much higher and even now the lenses are also very expensive.
The few times I have been in touch with the local dealer (for other products) I have found them to be completely asleep. I have called them a few times to get prices in various bits of kit, they don't call back, when I call them they seem surprised at my impatience over not getting a simple list price on a stock item the day after calling about it and so on. I have very little patience for that. Particularly when I see how attentive the Hasselblad, Phase One and Leaf dealers have been the last few weeks.
A friend of mine who had been looking at the Sinar said that he had never seen one with the battery charged...
I am sure the Sinar is a fine system and I am sure the lenses are fabulous, Sinar was just not 'on the table' so to speak.
I am sure I will be very happy with the Contax Zeiss glass.
Best regards,
Anders
T
thsinar
Guest
Dear Anders,
... and where are you based, respectively which dealer area where you have experienced this? I would like to take your experience seriously, but can't act if not informed about details.
If you feel so you can PM me.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
... and where are you based, respectively which dealer area where you have experienced this? I would like to take your experience seriously, but can't act if not informed about details.
If you feel so you can PM me.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
A
andershald
Guest
Hi Thierry.
Well you are definately not asleep
I have been following the threads on this site for a while and I can see that you and Sinar are extremely dedicated to great service and great products.
Let me be absolutely clear that I have not contacted the Copenhagen dealer about Sinar equipment. I have shopped with them a few times over the last 13 years. About a year ago I needed a new camera case, and as their website is absolutely useless (and hasn't been updated in what looks like a year) I called them up to get a price. They said they would check and call me back. As I hadn't heard from them the next day, I called them again and they sounded surprised to hear from me. Turns out they didn't have the product in stock, they knew I was in a hurry, they might have thought that it was a no sale, so didn't bother to call me...what do I know. I bought a bag from a different company (a golf bag actually...a great tip, but that's for another post...overweight luggage is expensive, but a golfbag is usually free or cheap to bring on flights).
I decided not to approach this dealer simply because my impressions, not because I think the Sinar system is not a good system. That, and the fact that I percieved Sinar as being too expensive for me. So, my post is not to be taken as a knock against Sinar, I am sure your system is great, I just didn't feel enclined to approach this particular dealer.
The Leaf dealer had shown me the AFI and early on in the process assured me that I could not afford it (more or less) when I asked about AFI prices relative to the new Hasselblad prices. This is a month ago, before Photokina.
Best regards,
Anders
Well you are definately not asleep
I have been following the threads on this site for a while and I can see that you and Sinar are extremely dedicated to great service and great products.
Let me be absolutely clear that I have not contacted the Copenhagen dealer about Sinar equipment. I have shopped with them a few times over the last 13 years. About a year ago I needed a new camera case, and as their website is absolutely useless (and hasn't been updated in what looks like a year) I called them up to get a price. They said they would check and call me back. As I hadn't heard from them the next day, I called them again and they sounded surprised to hear from me. Turns out they didn't have the product in stock, they knew I was in a hurry, they might have thought that it was a no sale, so didn't bother to call me...what do I know. I bought a bag from a different company (a golf bag actually...a great tip, but that's for another post...overweight luggage is expensive, but a golfbag is usually free or cheap to bring on flights).
I decided not to approach this dealer simply because my impressions, not because I think the Sinar system is not a good system. That, and the fact that I percieved Sinar as being too expensive for me. So, my post is not to be taken as a knock against Sinar, I am sure your system is great, I just didn't feel enclined to approach this particular dealer.
The Leaf dealer had shown me the AFI and early on in the process assured me that I could not afford it (more or less) when I asked about AFI prices relative to the new Hasselblad prices. This is a month ago, before Photokina.
Best regards,
Anders
T
thsinar
Guest
Thanks Anders,
I certainly did not take it against Sinar. I simply do not want to "sleep", as you put it, and try to improve things, whatever the reason for your decision to not contact as our distributor in Denmark was.
I am "relieved" however, to read that it was another reason, because I know them having the right Sinar demo equipment.
Have fun with your new equipment and best regards,
Thierry
I certainly did not take it against Sinar. I simply do not want to "sleep", as you put it, and try to improve things, whatever the reason for your decision to not contact as our distributor in Denmark was.
I am "relieved" however, to read that it was another reason, because I know them having the right Sinar demo equipment.
Have fun with your new equipment and best regards,
Thierry
Hi Thierry.
Well you are definately not asleep
I have been following the threads on this site for a while and I can see that you and Sinar are extremely dedicated to great service and great products.
Let me be absolutely clear that I have not contacted the Copenhagen dealer about Sinar equipment. I have shopped with them a few times over the last 13 years. About a year ago I needed a new camera case, and as their website is absolutely useless (and hasn't been updated in what looks like a year) I called them up to get a price. They said they would check and call me back. As I hadn't heard from them the next day, I called them again and they sounded surprised to hear from me. Turns out they didn't have the product in stock, they knew I was in a hurry, they might have thought that it was a no sale, so didn't bother to call me...what do I know. I bought a bag from a different company (a golf bag actually...a great tip, but that's for another post...overweight luggage is expensive, but a golfbag is usually free or cheap to bring on flights).
I decided not to approach this dealer simply because my impressions, not because I think the Sinar system is not a good system. That, and the fact that I percieved Sinar as being too expensive for me. So, my post is not to be taken as a knock against Sinar, I am sure your system is great, I just didn't feel enclined to approach this particular dealer.
The Leaf dealer had shown me the AFI and early on in the process assured me that I could not afford it (more or less) when I asked about AFI prices relative to the new Hasselblad prices. This is a month ago, before Photokina.
Best regards,
Anders