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Thread: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

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    Super Duper
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    CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Meager megs compared to mighty 39, 54, and 60 meg machines. Made specifically for retro V cameras. How quaint.

    Yet this thing keeps on making me scratch my head in wonderment.

    I had intended on taking the D700 and a few ZF optics to Detroit's Woodward Dream Cruise ... then an Oak tree went down and took out our power lines on Friday afternoon ... before I had charged the D700 batteries. By default, the 203FE and CFV became the weapon of choice because the batteries were ready. In the dark, I accidently mistook the 50/2.8FE instead of the 40/4IF ... I also decided to take the 350/4FE.

    Did a walk about at the Woodward Dream Cruise ... the largest car show/drive-by of it's kind in the world. 1.4 Million spectators in one day, 40,000 cars of all types from vintage Rolls, Bentley and Jags, to flame covered Hot Rods and Muscle Cars ... here from all points of the compass. Cars driving almost the entire length of Woodward Ave. infamous for drag racing in the 60s & 70s.

    A few shots... (BTW, the "Caddy" shot is a massive crop and needs some touch-up yet ... the rest are pretty much straight out of the camera.) Enjoy
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 11:31.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Here are few more, mostly with the close focusing 50/2.8FE, including some shots to add to my collection of "hood ornaments". I like the Rolls one since the reflections conspired to turn her face into a "Scull like Death's Head"

    Next year, we should organize a MFD group to shoot this together, and enjoy all the parties everywhere. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. It lasts for almost a week in build up to the actual one day weekend "Cruise.
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 11:31.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    BTW, here's the Rolls "Lady" without the "Death's Head" grin:
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 11:31.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    As usual, more great images Marc! I also like your idea of a "get together" for photographers, but we need a name for it...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Great stuff Marc, I really enjoy these kinds of photos. Not surprised at all that the CFV and 203 FE with the 50 2.8 are capable of this quality. Doubt you would have gotten anything quite as good with the D700.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Thanks David, fun stuff. I used the Boda Dry Lens bag (small) to carry the 350/4FE which fits like a glove, and made it easy to tote that monster around for hours with no effect. I had the camera on a Gitzo Mono pod with the Hasselbald quick release, and it was secure as can be walking around with the thing on my shoulder like shouldering a rifle. And I agree, while I like the D700, it pales in comparison to what I get with this combo... the dynamic range of the MFD back really helps with all this flashy chrome and reflections ... and I didn't even think to bring a Polarizer. What a great entry level MFD set-up this ... so no brainer to use it isn't even funny.

    Jack, seriously we should work together to set up a meet next summer. I will do anything to help. We can even meet at my "Party House" for an evening BBQ. All the Dream Cruise people are so friendly, and will talk your ear off about their cars. They love it when someone wants to take a photo. I think it could even be a great subject for a seminar for you and Guy. Let's keep it in mind.

    More fun ... some tight crops of grills:
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 11:31.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Sounds good to me Marc. Just love the look from these
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    what a gas! nothing like the 50's and 60's automobiles for flash, eh? once again, Marc has convinced me to go out and get the CFV, he, he. last time it was some motorcycle shots.

    great pics...wlf?

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    what a gas! nothing like the 50's and 60's automobiles for flash, eh? once again, Marc has convinced me to go out and get the CFV, he, he. last time it was some motorcycle shots.

    great pics...wlf?
    Thanks John, you inspired me to get the CFV-II, after selling my original CFV (which I missed immediately) ... and then inspired me to get out and use it more frequently with more of your shipyard shots.

    I was using the PM45 finder.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Marc, is there any noticeable improvement in the CFV II over the first version. That first version can be picked up at a very, very reasonable price.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Marc, is there any noticeable improvement in the CFV II over the first version. That first version can be picked up at a very, very reasonable price.
    Frankly, not much. The new sensor has the better anti-reflective coating that supposedly increases contrast a tad ... and a slightly larger, bit brighter LCD.

    I think most of the other incremental improvements (like fixing the internal clock and Tilt-Sensor issue on a few CFVs) ... were done with firmware, which applies equally to the original CFV ... but I'm not 100% certain of that.

    If this were just a whim, or budget was a consideration for an entry level MFD shooter (obviously not you : -) ... then I'd say the original one would do just fine.

    My big wonder now is whether a 22 meg CF/22 back on my H2F using the CF adapter with Zeiss 500 series lenses will provide the same kind of results, only allow more use of wide angles like the 40/4IF? It's supposed to be the same sensor pixel pitch and all that.

    It's just odd that the image signature of this combination yields such wonderful results so consistently from one user to another. My now sold Canon 1DsMKIII couldn't touch the CFV for IQ.

    I guess low cost factor, and stuff like that, is irrelevant when you get what you want from a piece of gear

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Marc, really fun photographs. I love the subject and what you brought to it. Extremely well done!

    I have a question for you about "the look" of these specific photos. I've looked at them several times today since you posted them and the best word that I can use to describe them is "film-like." They have that "smooth-sharp" look and I just think it's beautiful. That's how they occur for me. My question for you is whether this is due to the way this particular lens (your 50?) draws; whether it is the particular "mojo" of the digital back (I liked my 1Ds for a specific look that it had that my 1Ds2 does not have); or if it is a bit of both, maybe?? This smooth-sharp look is much of "the look" that I want for my photographs, this is what I've been seeking. I've gotten this look with some of my Leica M8 shots, and I want very much to duplicate it with MF. I think/hope (!) my Contax gives me this with my P30+ that is on it's way to me soon.

    So, any thoughts on the role of lens and back on the look of these particular photographs? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. Thanks Marc, Ray

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Another CFV "grill shot" (very tight crop)

    Steve
    Last edited by tetsrfun; 1st August 2010 at 18:31.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Ray, you aren't the first one to comment on that specific "film like" attribute to the CFV even on a 503CW with CFE lenses ... and that is from folks who shoot film exclusively. I tend to agree ... I also shoot film and scan on an Imacon 949 ... and the CFV shots look and feel similar.

    I've achieved excellent results with that "look" using the Zeiss 500 series lenses like the 40/4IF, 65/3.5 CFi 100/3.5CFi and 180/4CFi. However, the OOF areas of the faster 200 series lenses tend to nicer especially stopped down 1 stop, so the in-focus subject really has snap and depth because of that.

    As far as the contribution that the back makes, I suspect it's the larger 9X9 Micron pixels ... which is why I wonder if the results would be the same with a 22 meg. CF back on an H2F using Zeiss optics. If I can find a 22 CF Back I may get it and find out.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Thanks Marc, I was afraid you were going to say that some of the magic is the 9 micron pixels (like I mentioned my earlier note, my 6.8 micron P30+ for my Contax will be on its way soon)! Seriously, if you can get ahold of a friend's 22MP back and try it on you 203FE, I'd love to see the results, and of course, if you can find some time to then try the same shots with a 31MP or 39 MP back, I think that would be a worthwhile real-life test, too.

    It's interesting how these particular photos have almost a rich and "luxurious" texture/feel to them, there's nothing common about them. My best guess is that it is the particular drawing/signature of these lenses combined with those pixels in the back that's creating this kind of magic. Really outstanding.

    I think I'm going to figure out the wording for a question on that gets at this exact topic.

    Thanks again, Marc, Ray

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Very bright and happy shots Marc.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Next year, we should organize a MFD group to shoot this together, and enjoy all the parties everywhere. It's like nothing I've ever seen before. It lasts for almost a week in build up to the actual one day weekend "Cruise.
    Great photos Marc!

    Count me in....whether cars or motorcyles, I'm up for it!

    Gary Benson
    Eagle River, Alaska
    503CWD-II

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Great photos Marc!

    Count me in....whether cars or motorcyles, I'm up for it!

    Gary Benson
    Eagle River, Alaska
    503CWD-II
    Me too!

    Woody

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Brilliant shots , Marc.

    Thank you very much for sharing . I am surprised about the wonderful colors .
    How much USM did you use and do you do USM already in PHOCUS ? ? ?

    Jürgen

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    I'll start by saying that the qualities of rendition of these images - whether that is due to the pixel size or lenses used or a combination of both - is perfectly suited to the subject matter.

    The results do have the saturated look of slow transparency film but taking that as a given I can't help feeling that there the comparison falters. These images appear to me to have a very distinct quality and appear far smoother than any scanned film I've experienced including Velvia scanned by various Imacon and drum scanners.

    Let's be clear, if I were shooting these or similar subjects I'd choose MFD over film every time, but I wouldn't be looking to achieve a "film like quality".

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Sorry Marc, meant to add, lovely shots.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Keith, I actually agree ... "film like" isn't the same as "like film." That may sound like an exercise in semantics, but simply indicates a matter of degree of how close a digital solution comes to providing a certain film like quality. Some digital solutions do it more than others ... but IMO none actually do it, or probably ever will.

    For that very reason, I have a fridge filled with 120 and 220 film, secured an Imacon 949 scanner some time ago, and recently added a H2F 645 body with 2 film backs to the gear vault.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Brilliant shots , Marc.

    Thank you very much for sharing . I am surprised about the wonderful colors .
    How much USM did you use and do you do USM already in PHOCUS ? ? ?

    Jürgen
    Hi Jurgen,

    I use the default USM in Phocus} Amount: 100, Radius: 1.0, Threshold: 0, Dark Limit: 26. When I size for web I just use Sharpen in Photoshop, and then reduce that with the Fade slider about 50%.

    The colors are partly due to the brillantly clear light on that day, and that all the cars are painted and polished to a fine degree. Sometimes that high reflectivity doesn't work in your favor ... like this:
    Last edited by fotografz; 28th November 2008 at 11:31.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Film 'quality' is an interesting topic in itself. I am just trying out some software that does a pretty neat job of reproducing the tonal curves of various 'b&W film' types - checking out these default curves sees interesting shoulder patterns as well as combinations of filters in default mode from where one can change /add/ do all sorts of stuff - sure not film at all - but on the internet - doubt that many would see the difference actually - the grain patterns are also reproduced for each type.

    Still I have a couple of bricks of TRX in 35mm and 120 always in my freezer - just love it. As for colour / slide well I'd rather shoot digital MFD any day - another bonus is that I dont have to worry about archiving digi files - so I try and shoot a roll whenever an important or fun family/friends occasion is happening.

    thats what rally freaks me out about digi - doesnt feel as safe as the emulsion cut into strips and placed in ring binders jand stored in bokshelf - yeah I know not 'logical'.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Hi Jurgen,

    I use the default USM in Phocus} Amount: 100, Radius: 1.0, Threshold: 0, Dark Limit: 26. When I size for web I just use Sharpen in Photoshop, and then reduce that with the Fade slider about 50%.

    The colors are partly due to the brillantly clear light on that day, and that all the cars are painted and polished to a fine degree. Sometimes that high reflectivity doesn't work in your favor ... like this:
    Thanks Marc

    I have looked up PHOCUS and find the basic setting for USM in the adjust section
    100% + RADIUS 1,0 + THRESHOLD 0 + DARK LIMIT 10 .

    I must confess , I do not really know , what that dark limit stands for .
    Your value is 26 , I find 10 as preset . What does that mean ? ? ?
    In the user manual it reads rather short:
    The higher the number, the less extensive the sharpening effect will be .
    Depending on the image , a setting between 0 and 20 is recommended .
    I assume your value of 26 is a value of your experience .

    Jürgen

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Thanks Marc

    I have looked up PHOCUS and find the basic setting for USM in the adjust section
    100% + RADIUS 1,0 + THRESHOLD 0 + DARK LIMIT 10 .

    I must confess , I do not really know , what that dark limit stands for .
    Your value is 26 , I find 10 as preset . What does that mean ? ? ?
    In the user manual it reads rather short:
    The higher the number, the less extensive the sharpening effect will be .
    Depending on the image , a setting between 0 and 20 is recommended .
    I assume your value of 26 is a value of your experience .

    Jürgen
    Odd, I don't recall ever setting any of those sharpening numbers and assumed they were defaults

    However it got there, (and I'm sure I must have set it and forgot I did), I tend to shoot at higher ISOs and a higher dark-limit evidently helps keep the noise from being accented in low light shots. Whatever, it seems to work for me.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I am just trying out some software that does a pretty neat job of reproducing the tonal curves of various 'b&W film' types - checking out these default curves sees interesting shoulder patterns as well as combinations of filters in default mode from where one can change /add/ do all sorts of stuff - sure not film at all - but on the internet - doubt that many would see the difference actually - the grain patterns are also reproduced for each type.
    Peter,
    If you haven't tried the Alien Skin Exposure plug-in for Photoshop you really should demo it. From your description I suspect this may already be the case.

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    Re: CFV: A Wolf is Sheep's clothing ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Peter,
    If you haven't tried the Alien Skin Exposure plug-in for Photoshop you really should demo it. From your description I suspect this may already be the case.
    Ditto for Nik Silver Efex. Great stuff for B&W conversions.

    Woody

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