Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 56

Thread: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I'm wondering what people think or have experienced doing hand held shooting with a technical camera (I use Alpa) and MFDB (I have a Phase back). Is it practical in any way and does it make sense over a 35mm DSLR?

    The way I figure the workflow would be is:
    1. Set a high ISO
    2. If people shot, guestimate the distance and use hyperfocal. Try to go as low as f8
    3. Forget about LCC correction unless you want to use a standard LCC; perhaps one created at that location before you start to shoot or if you have time afterwards.
    4. Loosing 2 stops with a center filter is tough!
    5. Walking around with it around my neck would be a world of worry.

    But I still think that the ability to use MF would be great. I know this is best done with a MF SLR type camera, but I don't have that choice.

    Thanks for any and all input,
    Bob

  2. #2
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,272
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Sounds like the digital version of what press photographers did in the 40s and 50s. (See Weegee.)

  3. #3
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    And you might consider changing out the shutter for a Copal-press.
    -bob

  4. #4
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,910
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    36

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Woody Campbell does it all the time, most recently with an Alpa and a Phase IQ180. Check out some of his posts on this forum, including his recent trip to Africa.

    Joe
    _________________________________
    Joe Colson Photography

  5. #5
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,194
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I have given it a shot and it works pretty ok. However, I would only consider it if the light is more or less constant and I can shoot at atleast 1/125 and stay inbetween f8-11.
    It is actually quite comfortable and my SWA is well balanced and with both hands firmly on the grips it is not very difficult to keep it very still.

    This one is shot handheld:
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Lovely photo Dan. Wonderful painterly effect.
    I spoke with Paul Slotboom this morning. He said that without being able to use a higher ISO that's available with sensor plus ( which my "old"back doesn't have) it's pretty impractical. Shooting at f8 or 11 and native ISO pretty much requires very bright sunshine.
    Base on these responses I think the money is best spent elsewhere (or saved!).
    Bob
    Last edited by rga; 24th August 2011 at 09:58. Reason: Grammar correction

  7. #7
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,194
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Thanks!
    Yes, it is only useful in perfect conditions. My shot above was at 100iso, 1/125 and f8. If I remember correctly I was about 1.5 metres away from the flowers with the 35XL. My back is no good with higher iso's, my 35 XL is no good at f5.6, so anything less then perfect conditions - it's a no go.

    edit: forgot to say that it is a simple crop to square...
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Dan,

    That's again a very nice shot.

    Thierry
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  9. #9
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Sensor+ is great for this. I've also done it with a P21+ IR back. Either way, a back with higher ISO capabilities is pretty critical to the practicality.

    http://www.doug-peterson.com/osu-vs-ou/



    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________

    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

    Masters Series Workshop:
    New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)

  10. #10
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I've seen Doug running around with a cambo shooting handheld a lot of times. LOL

    The Alpa TC I adore . Great for handheld
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #11
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Joe is correct: I shoot the TC + IQ 180 handheld all of the time. It's why I own the SK 35mm XL and a large part of why I selected Alpa over Arca. Typical settings for daylight: ISO 50, f12.3 (the lens's optimum f stop), and 1/60. Hyperfocal distance is 16', close focus is half that. I try to keep at f 12.3 and at least 1/60 which means that I ride the ISO as light changes. I go to sensor + before coming off of these settings, although I'll shoot slower shutter speeds if I have something to brace the camera on. I use the Leica D5 Disto for distance measurements if I need to come off of hyperfocus, and the sunny 16 rule as a light meter. I generally take one lcc shot at the beginning of a session - at least in part to capture the dust on my sensor.

    I've done a thread on the subject: An Alpa TC Goes to Africa.

    With some patience and practice you can really make it sing. My shooting style handheld is more fluid than on a tripod, and the results (for me) are generally better - my on-tripod shots tend to look "staged" - I'm trying to discipline myself to be more fluid on a tripod but it may be a losing battle.

    It's also feasible to shoot the SK 47 XL. ISO 100, f12.3, 1/125. Hyper focus distance is 26'; near focus is 13'. I've tried the SK 72 XL with so-so results - camera movement and shallow depth of field (and thus critical focus) depress your keeper ratio pretty badly. The SK 42 xl would also be a good choice - I wanted wider.

    I'm the source of the observation that the Alpa TC + SK 35 XL + IQ 180 is functionally a high resolution digital equivalent to the Hasselblad Superwide C.

    A recent shot (from another thread) illustrates the advantage of this approach - I grabbed this shot handheld (braced against a fence) - by the time I got a tripod set up the ground fog had burned off sufficiently that there wasn't much of a shot left.



    From a recent walk in Harlem with the SK 47:



    Used the disto to get focus correct:


    Last edited by Woody Campbell; 24th August 2011 at 11:29.

  12. #12
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,194
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    The TC is definitely a nice piece of metal, but I would argue that most could handhold a SWA one stop slower shutterspeed. The grips are really perfect and the balance is superb (with both my lenses). I feel considerably more stable with the SWA rather than the TC.

    Ps. appreciate your comment Thierry!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  13. #13
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,194
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Nice selfportrait there Woody
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  14. #14
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Nice selfportrait there Woody
    And it proves that it was really handheld. Hard to get out of the way sometimes.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Photoshop, Woddy



    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Hard to get out of the way sometimes.
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  16. #16
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I'm wondering what people think or have experienced doing hand held shooting with a technical camera (I use Alpa) and MFDB (I have a Phase back). . . .

    5. Walking around with it around my neck would be a world of worry.

    . . .

    Bob
    I take mine everywhere. It's just a tool.

    I look like an old guy with some kind of weird old camera. People who have an idea of what it is often come up and chat so you make new friends.

    I keep it around my neck or over my shoulder with an upstrap, or in a Crumpler Pretty Boy bag, that just holds the assembled camera, a couple of batteries, the disto, the lcc doodad and a colorchecker passport.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Woody,
    Lots of great information on your posts! And your images are why I'd like to use my Alpa handheld!!

    My system is different from yours in that the P45+ does not have plus sensor technology, I have to wake up the back, and, probably most importantly, I have an STC, not a TC.

    Given these differences do you still think handheld is akin to an SWC replacement?

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Bob

  18. #18
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,800
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    My experience of using the TC and STC handheld is that you need a longer trigger finger with the STC. (seriously). With my TC I have the Phase One wake up grip on the left side & right finger grip but when I shoot handheld with the STC I just use the right side grip and shoot the back in zero latency mode as there is no left side grip.

    I'd agree with the other comments that you need good light and/or variable ISO/Sensor+ to make this practical. I tried with my Aptus and found the lack of ISO flexibility to be a limitation. That's not to say that it can't be done by any means but it's just tougher to keep exposure where you want it with acceptable apertures. I'm going to try it again using a monopod to see if that helps but you do lose some of the spontaneity.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Luxembourg, Paris
    Posts
    125
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I used the Alpa 12 TC / Aptus 75s / Alpar 35 APO handheld in Marocco (thanks to the advices I got here, thanks to all !).

    First of all, it was a pleasure to use.
    The nice shots were taken at 50 iso (100 max), 1/80 to 1/125, f11.
    As said before, I don't think it makes much sense to move to an iso value that is not perfect with the back, except for a souvenir picture and to avoid having a dslr in the pocket for that purpose.
    Focusing was done by guessing, but I could have studied the DOF table better before, and decreased the distance a bit more in some cases of short distance.
    At the end, technical success rate was very decent for a first use.

    But the feed-back from the different experts here confirms I cannot count on using any longer lens with my current back handheld.

    Here are some examples of pictures handheld

    Marc

  20. #20
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phila./NY
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I just wanted to share with you a link of some work that a client of mine, Jehad Nga has just completed with his recently acquired P65+/ALPA TC-SK47mm.

    I am not sure of what settings he was using as he is still away shooting, but I did confirm with him that it was all shot handheld.

    It is amazing he picked up his P65+ on a Wednesday and by the weekend he was in the extreme heat of North Africa shooting!

    The following link takes you to his latest work in the gallery " Creek Don't Rise":
    http://jehadnga.com/#/galleries/cree.../DADAAB_ALPA01

    Cannot wait to see his future work.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

  21. #21
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    oliver: those shots are very engaging

    woody; my thanks for always contributing to the greater good, and love your shots, have learned a lot from you

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    The following link takes you to his latest work in the gallery " Creek Don't Rise":
    http://jehadnga.com/#/galleries/cree.../DADAAB_ALPA01

    Cannot wait to see his future work.

    Lance
    Fantastic series! I'll be trying some hand held this weekend just to test it out. Unfortunately I don't have sensor plus...
    Thanks for posting these Lance. Very inspiring,
    Bob

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Bob
    I highly recommend giving it a try to handhold your Alpa.
    I agonized over that same question this summer when I decided to go on a sailing trip in the Aegean Sea followed by a trip to Istanbul.
    I kept my kit very simple: STC with a Phase back, 43mm XL, viewfinder, neckstrap and a really small bag that I could stow away into a nap-sack I was carrying. This whole kit always stayed together except for times of air travel when I took the viewfinder and sync cable off.
    Attached a some shots I took with the STC in various situations:
    all my shots had to some extend rise applied so I shot an LCC right after.
    The photo with the absurd diving board in the middle of the sea was even taken in 35ASA with around 15 mm or rise applied. I did not apply any Keystone to it just for the sake of showing how relatively accurate the bubble in the viewfinder has helped with framing the shots.
    (same goes for the pool shot).
    The shot with the boat and the supermarket was very late in the afternoon and shot in S+ mode at 140ISA at a 1/60 sec .
    The store interior was shot at 100ISO and 4 sec.. I simply put the camera on a table and supported the back from underneath to add stability. The "odd" look of that set up got the owner fascinated and did not object to me taking the photo.
    The photo taken in the mosque had one sec exposure and again supported got supported by some stone slap, tripods were not allowed in and though its not technically handheld they are nevertheless not taken with a tripod.
    Again all images were taken with an LCC and had rise applied.

    If you are using a smaller TC and dont want to carry a large tripod but not miss out on twilight and other darker environments bring along a gorillapod and release shutter plus a little piece that you could slide under your digital back so its on par with the TC so your able to place it on a flat surface for longer exposure times if you dont want to bring a tripod.
    Have fun
    Grischa




    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I'm wondering what people think or have experienced doing hand held shooting with a technical camera (I use Alpa) and MFDB (I have a Phase back). Is it practical in any way and does it make sense over a 35mm DSLR?

    The way I figure the workflow would be is:
    1. Set a high ISO
    2. If people shot, guestimate the distance and use hyperfocal. Try to go as low as f8
    3. Forget about LCC correction unless you want to use a standard LCC; perhaps one created at that location before you start to shoot or if you have time afterwards.
    4. Loosing 2 stops with a center filter is tough!
    5. Walking around with it around my neck would be a world of worry.

    But I still think that the ability to use MF would be great. I know this is best done with a MF SLR type camera, but I don't have that choice.

    Thanks for any and all input,
    Bob

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Thanks Grisha. Your images are lovely!

    I will give it a try this weekend and post some images.
    I'll be watching sharpness particularly. Hand held my general rule is that the shutter speed should be 3x the focal length. So with my 35 I'm looking at 1/125. I might be shooting at 100 or 200 ISO, depending on light obviously.

    Thanks again for the encouragement.
    Best,
    Bob

  25. #25
    Subscriber & Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    1,178
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    414

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Alpa 12 SWA, 47XL, P20+, Handheld. Using the Alpa viewfinder the framing is not precise but you do have a good view of the level through the viewfinder which helps when you want to keep the horizon fairly level. The SWA is very well balanced for handholding (with two hands). The TC is more compact but for me the SWA feels better. Guessing exposure is not so difficult but sometimes guessing distance I can be way off.






  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Zug/Zurich (Switzerland), Dubai, Sydney
    Posts
    334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I am an industrial photographer and have shot handheld with tech cams for many years, initially with a P25 on a Horseman Sw-D, later with the same back on an SW-DII, and these days with P45+, P65+, Aptus12 or IQ180 on an ALPA STC.
    The Alpa STC has been a godsend for handheld work. It is light, uncomplicated, very robust and fast to work with. My small hands sometimes struggle to reach the shutter release on the lens, but the Alpa Sync release puts the shutter release in a better position for my hands. I often also use a short cable release and trigger with either my left or right thumb. I find I get less camera shake when working at slower shutter speeds (I often handhold as low as 1/15th sec).
    You should have no reservations about having the camera around your neck. My Alpa has been snow trudging in the Alps, clambering on scaffolding on highrise towers 85 floors up in Dubai (in 50deg C heat) and just last week, on an oil pipeline project in Southern Iraq (hot, dusty and swampy area South of Basra), whilst hanging from my shoulder. The camera is very robust.
    For the sake of the comparison, I did the Iraq shoot with both the Phase One DF camera with 28mm Phase lens and the Alpa with the SK35XL, shooting mostly handheld. I found the DF and 28m almost unbearably cumbersome and had a tendency to swing around a lot when clambering over machinery. The Alpa tends to stay against my body better in these situations rather than swinging around and baging against things. The other striking thing was that I had a much higher number of usable frames from the Alpa than the DF. Even allowing for the fact the SK35XL is optically better than the Phase 28 in every way, there were a lot of shots scrapped from the DF due to camera shake. My guess is that the weight of the DF being harder to hold, combined with mirror-slap was disturbing stability. The Alpa being lighter and not having a mirror was superior by a large margin for handheld work of this kind. (I was shooting mostly around 1/30th at f8 with both cameras).
    I always shoot LCC frames. It's pretty easy to pop one frame at the shift setting and aperture you've just shot a string of images at. I carry my LCC filter in a thigh pocket on its own so it doesn't get damaged by abrading against other stuff. My current filter has had 4 years of heavy use without damage. It is obviously important that your LCC filter remains unblemished.
    Since I've started shooting with the IQ180, I hardly ever use my viewfinder. I sight over the top of the camera and confirm with the awesome screen. I only use liveview when working off a tripod at less than hyperfocal distances, and occasionally when I want to shoot wide open and have DOF issues. This combo of the IQ series backs and the light, robust TC or STC really is the killer kit for wideangle handholding in MF. The ergonomics of these two little Alpa's really make them ideal for fast, stable and comfortable handheld shooting.

    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    I am an industrial photographer and have shot handheld with tech cams for many years, initially with a P25 on a Horseman Sw-D, later with the same back on an SW-DII, and these days with P45+, P65+, Aptus12 or IQ180 on an ALPA STC.
    Hi Siebel,
    Thanks for the input!
    So are you finding that most of your in focus images are in your hyperfocal range (with my 35 it's about 1.6m - at least the beginning of infinity) and that when you try to shoot closer, it's a much larger miss ration?

    Though that may seem obvious (or at least it is to me) I just wanted to confirm with your experience.
    Thanks and thanks for the great input,
    Bob

  28. #28
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    66

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by rupho View Post
    Bob
    I highly recommend giving it a try to handhold your Alpa.
    I agonized over that same question this summer when I decided to go on a sailing trip in the Aegean Sea followed by a trip to Istanbul.
    I kept my kit very simple: STC with a Phase back, 43mm XL, viewfinder, neckstrap and a really small bag that I could stow away into a nap-sack I was carrying. This whole kit always stayed together except for times of air travel when I took the viewfinder and sync cable off.
    Attached a some shots I took with the STC in various situations:
    all my shots had to some extend rise applied so I shot an LCC right after.
    The photo with the absurd diving board in the middle of the sea was even taken in 35ASA with around 15 mm or rise applied. I did not apply any Keystone to it just for the sake of showing how relatively accurate the bubble in the viewfinder has helped with framing the shots.
    (same goes for the pool shot).
    The shot with the boat and the supermarket was very late in the afternoon and shot in S+ mode at 140ISA at a 1/60 sec .
    The store interior was shot at 100ISO and 4 sec.. I simply put the camera on a table and supported the back from underneath to add stability. The "odd" look of that set up got the owner fascinated and did not object to me taking the photo.
    The photo taken in the mosque had one sec exposure and again supported got supported by some stone slap, tripods were not allowed in and though its not technically handheld they are nevertheless not taken with a tripod.
    Again all images were taken with an LCC and had rise applied.

    If you are using a smaller TC and dont want to carry a large tripod but not miss out on twilight and other darker environments bring along a gorillapod and release shutter plus a little piece that you could slide under your digital back so its on par with the TC so your able to place it on a flat surface for longer exposure times if you dont want to bring a tripod.
    Have fun
    Grischa

    Handheld with rise. Wow. A new frontier. Very interesting and beautiful images. Could you reverse the side that the rise control is on by reversing the camera body back to front? (This might help with the "long finger" problem.)

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Zug/Zurich (Switzerland), Dubai, Sydney
    Posts
    334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    Hi Siebel,
    Thanks for the input!
    So are you finding that most of your in focus images are in your hyperfocal range (with my 35 it's about 1.6m - at least the beginning of infinity) and that when you try to shoot closer, it's a much larger miss ration?

    Though that may seem obvious (or at least it is to me) I just wanted to confirm with your experience.
    Thanks and thanks for the great input,
    Bob
    Yes, in practice most of my professional work is in the hyperfocal range as I am usually shooting buildings and industrial installations. I still check focus, usually by shooting one frame with the lens wide open, then using the zoom function to zoom to about 200% to check. This workflow with the IQ takes all the guesswork out and really helps. I don't know how I worked without it before. Between the liveview, focus mask and zoom functions on the IQ back and the HPF rins on the Alpa lenses, I haven't missed focus on a single shot since I've been working with the IQ on the Alpa.

    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I'm allowing myself to experiment and take more hand held shots with my WRS since getting the P65 with the main reason not needing the 2-shot release.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    . I don't know how I worked without it before. Between the liveview, focus mask and zoom functions on the IQ back and the HPF rins on the Alpa lenses, I haven't missed focus on a single shot since I've been working with the IQ on the Alpa.

    Cheers,
    You're killing me! Time to sell the kids...

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I'm allowing myself to experiment and take more hand held shots with my WRS since getting the P65 with the main reason not needing the 2-shot release.
    I think the Kapture Group cable allows that for backs requiring wake up. At least that is what I will be testing...
    Thanks. Love the image! Hope to get there some day.
    Bob

  34. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    122
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Thanks Woody
    Unfortunately the STC in it's intended position is optimized for Stiching but turning the camera by 90 degrees you end up with the handle that's normally on the right hand side of the STC as seen from behind at the bottom.
    Al you néed to do is to have the viewfinder remounted and turn the lens which is no issue on Alpas due to the square helical
    So you stitch camera turns into a rise camera, though fall is blocked by the viewfinder.
    Does that make sense?
    In any case the bubble leveler is easily seen from the view finder and only minor keystone adjustments are needed for perfectly straight shots if you wish to do so.
    Works like a charm.
    And pressing the shutter is easy with the little screw in shutter release knob that come with the lenses
    I use my left hand to stabilize the camera from the bottom using my Max handgrip use the indent on the STCs right as seen from behind to add support which brings my right index finger right next to the screw in release know
    Grischa

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    Handheld with rise. Wow. A new frontier. Very interesting and beautiful images. Could you reverse the side that the rise control is on by reversing the camera body back to front? (This might help with the "long finger" problem.)

  35. #35
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I think the Kapture Group cable allows that for backs requiring wake up. At least that is what I will be testing...
    Thanks. Love the image! Hope to get there some day.
    Bob
    Bob - you are correct and the image I attached was taken with the Kapture Group cable. Since then I've decided to reduce the amount of cables draging and go without.

    Don
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
    Yep! A large format Leica. All we need is a range finder...
    I was trying hand held on our cat last night. Just messing around at 800 ISO, no grip and using a Disto for distance. Problem is a laser dot drives her completely nutso. It's like she's in hyperdrive...
    Settled on shooting a table :-)

  37. #37
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    What many people do not realize is there is no mirror bouncing around here causing vibrations so shooting handheld with these shutters is like shooting a Leica M8 or M9 and you can handhold them for a good half second. Really not much difference here just need to get these comfortable in your hands and these grips help a lot in that quest. I plan on doing this with my cambo no doubt about it
    Guy - I found out that adding the new wooden grips help holding the camera and makes it much better to grab on to. Plus it just looks sexy!
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  38. #38
    Member JonMo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Delta BC Canada
    Posts
    100
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    8

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Hi Don,
    I was also considering adding the wood grips to my RS.
    You seem to feel its made a great difference for you, I don't find handholding it very difficult now but the grips are about as far from ergonomic as you can get and seem like an afterthought compared to my Cambo wide DS.
    Anyone know if it can be done in Canada, I know Don did his own.

  39. #39
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    Hi Don,
    I was also considering adding the wood grips to my RS.
    You seem to feel its made a great difference for you, I don't find handholding it very difficult now but the grips are about as far from ergonomic as you can get and seem like an afterthought compared to my Cambo wide DS.
    Anyone know if it can be done in Canada, I know Don did his own.
    Your local Cambo dealer should be able to the handles for you. I understand after the fact that Cambo feels this is a dealer installation however you might be able to talk your dealer into letting you do it yourself with the understanding that you have no recourse if you run into a problem. Speaking of problems, I found at least 3 of the screw heads got stripped as I attempted to remove them. My feeling is that Cambo put these on super tight with no thoughts of a replacement at the time - then again I have had my WRS since late 2008.

    For all the grief I had in replacing the handles (I wrote about it here) it was well worth it. The wooden handles are slightly larger which will give you a much better grip in cold weather and gloves and it makes for an easier grip to do the occasional handheld shot. Plus it just looks sexy as hell!
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ

  40. #40
    Porpoise
    Guest

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Use a tech cam for it's dynamic range, the movements, the nice handling or the lovely rosewood handles, but resolution when shooting handheld, probably suffers badly. Even if you don't use hyperfocal distances. I suspect that for highest resolution, using Sensor+ is the smart thing to do in most available light circumstances. It will give you a resolution similar to that of a handheld Leica M9. If a 18 mp camera needs a tripod to achieve it's maximum resolution, you won't get more resolution by using a 36 mp sensor instead of the tripod. It will only give you bigger files.

    Don't get me wrong. Beautiful pictures can be made with less than 80 mp resolution. For most purposes, 20 mp is probably overkill already.

    As I don't like traveling with a tripod but love my Alpa TC, I really hope to disprove my aforementioned opinion. But Imatest doesn't seem to like 80 mp files. Or it needs more memory. Why can't they release a Mac version?

  41. #41
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    RS handle conversion is $949 from us:
    http://www.captureintegration.com/store/color/




    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________

    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

    Masters Series Workshop:
    New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Posts
    621
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    RS handle conversion is $949 from us:
    http://www.captureintegration.com/store/color/




    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________

    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

    Masters Series Workshop:
    New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)
    Now that's just being downright cruel...

  43. #43
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    I agree.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  44. #44
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Guy! you are losing it! get a grip!

  45. #45
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,272
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Two grips.

  46. #46
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    John you need to convert your metal shop into wood bud. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  47. #47
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    guy:
    squeeze some clay and send it; maybe I can make you a very custom set of grips

  48. #48
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Crap even Alpa's are cheaper at around 600.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  49. #49
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    guy:
    squeeze some clay and send it; maybe I can make you a very custom set of grips
    I was thinking the same thing John.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  50. #50
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,800
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Practicality of Hand Held Tech Cam Shooting

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Crap even Alpa's are cheaper ....
    Now that's a quote you don't hear very often. I may have to frame that one.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •