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Thread: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Just lost my whole post but it deserves it's own thread. If you want to start one be happy to join in but its not just about taking a image but a whole slew of backend stuff.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I agree. Cameras are systems. The reliability of the Mamiya bodies, for example, is very questionable. They are also getting very long in the tooth. No system is perfect, but I see no real reason the Pentax is not something to consider.

    I posted to offer an alternative to to the OP. I see no reason for a separate post as I am not really interested in a which-camera-is-better converstion. I assume the OP will do his research to find the best solution for his work.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Also how do you guys feel about the current state of glass available for these systems. Any backfocus errors or the like, what are my chances of getting dud in the lens, will I be trying hard to find the best glass for it. What has your experience been with the quality? (Again, this is to elborate on choosing the system here, although I know it might be served on a new thread)
    I've recently read the comparison between Mamiya and Hassy Lenses, where the Hassys were somewhat lower in resolving power. (source: Mamiya website)

    Also let me play devils avocate here. How limited would you guys feel if the Leica S2 were only MF camera available to shoot with?
    I think the current state of the glass is great , can't speak for Hassy but I hear great things as far as Phase they have excellent glass and I laugh till I pee my paints when I read it don't. Obviously someone not using them, but most of the Phase D glass is extremely good. The LS glass is awesome but here is where Phase gets the ding, and this has been going on before our time the old stuff is just okay . Some are good and some are not . The D glass is very good but there are a couple that take the whole line down as a piece of crap system. The 35,45 have and can be problematic and you have to look for a good one. The corners can go a little softer in the corners on the Full frame sensors on the crop sensors not a issue. The 28mm is a outstanding lens but he very far far corners go soft consider it a 31mm lens instead. The 55, 80 . 120, 150 D lenses are awesome. The 150 D maybe the sharpest lens I have used. The LS glass i absolutely love and my 55mm just about beat the new 60 schneider tech lens. on a 180 no less. I'm talking picky picky here.

    So these comments that Phase glass is crap is not only fair it is infurating because it is so far from the truth. Please believe I would NOT be shooting it if it was, i am a lens whore through and through. I shot Leica/Zeiss for years.

    The S2 question just like the Pentax question what is its true backup another unit. There is nothing one can do here except buy the same or use another system. Hassy and Phase have options to cover itself. That is one of the benefits of a modular system. This debate is a big deadhorse BTW as its been slammed around for awhile now. But we can't escape the facts and I like the S2 a lot. Great glass they have on it. I honestly don't want to debate this anymore myself but some folks consider them Pro worthy and some will not. There is so much on the backend that gets left out of these discussions and more importantly gets ignored until the **** hits the fan, than the tune changes.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I agree. Cameras are systems. The reliability of the Mamiya bodies, for example, is very questionable. They are also getting very long in the tooth. No system is perfect, but I see no real reason the Pentax is not something to consider.

    I posted to offer an alternative to to the OP. I see no reason for a separate post as I am not really interested in a which-camera-is-better converstion. I assume the OP will do his research to find the best solution for his work.
    Can you give me figure on the reliability of the Mamiya bodies( the DF has been out a year). Seriously where is it written where are the repair numbers and that goes for Hassy systems as well where are the hard cold facts from the repair shops. Sure any body can have issues and I have had them in every system but general broad statements without facts is hard to swallow. I'm talking about the whole system service , support, repairs, software, accessories, lenses availability, overnight replacements and all that we depend on. I'm sorry Pentax has not proven itself in these areas yet. Now does Phase need a new body YES THE DO but it is not because of reliability issues. Its because it is digital based now not film. TOTALLY agree on that one but it is not a reliability thing but yes some have failed. May I ask what are you going to do when the Pentax body fails. That is a 10k backup to it, just like the S2 what are you going to do when they need repair. I'm sorry to bring it up but it can't be ignored either. These are the decisions that go through our heads every time we decide to buy into a system. There is simple a laundry list we have to look at and its a big one. We can all go out and buy 3 Nikons and it won't matter if it fails or not its chump change but when 10k systems and above come into play we have to think smarter and these decisions become a nightmare to make. I want the Pentax to be a success but it also like the S2 has to prove itself in the market and can sustain itself in the future, its just to early right now. That is not meant to be negative in anyway either but like anything in this business longevity of product and a system support of it are usually long standing and been going on for years. Believe me a 10k 40mpx camera is exciting as hell and i give Pentax a ton of credit for doing it and glad they are out here trying to get a place in the MF industry we need more like them. They just need some time. I said the same thing of the S2 it just needs to mature in to full system with all its parts. I think everyone wants more players in this field and as end users that could help our pockets too.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    The backup question is a bit of a red herring. For the price of one IQ140 back, I can buy two complete Pentax bodies and still have change left over. Hasselblad looks like it is moving to an integrated body and there is a long history of professional cameras that are not modular.

    The question is simple, you have a budget and you purchase what you think is the best solution for the budget and your work.

    Guy, you have found a way that works well for you. I have no problem with that. But not everyone has reached the same conclusion. I simply offered a suggestion. (I also take exception in your implication that I am somehow less than "professional." It is possible for professionals to work in different ways and come to different conclusions.)

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    No I don't mean to slight the Pentax at all but again a back goes down is very very rare it is usually the body and that is a cheap replacement to the system. That is what i am pointing out.

    Btw I NEVER said you where less than professional. I own this site and would NEVER say that to anyone EVER. That is not even remotely a possibility coming from me. I simply am not like that at all. So you misread that or read it incorrectly. Sorry if it was implied just simply would not enter my mind never mind actually say that.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Shashin, I agree with Guy that his comment was meant for the Pentax 645D alone, and not necessarily anyone using it! I also think it is a great camera for anyone entering into MF, but its current offering is still a little thin and hope they can offer more lenses and support.

    Guy, thank you for your thorough answer, but I may have started a new thread because I misunderstood a post...oops again!

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I talk fast. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks guys, all the info is very important for me, i know the pros and cons for each system, the 1/1600 sync time is very tempting as a fashion photographer, i can freeze the outdoors scene and get a pin-sharp photo.
    on the 5DM2 i shoot with Polarizer filter over the lens and at very fast shutter speed (2.8 / 1/1600 and up) and i get beautiful results, hope to achieve easily the same technique on MF system

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Thanks guys, all the info is very important for me, i know the prone and cons for each system, the 1/1600 sync time is very tempting as a fashion photographer, i can freeze the outdoors scene and get a pin-sharp photo.
    on the 5DM2 i shoot with Polarizer filter over the lens and at very fast shutter speed (2.8 / 1/1600 and up) and i get beautiful results, hope to achieve easily the same technique on MF system
    With the 5D2 at 1/1600 you can only do this with their small flash units, not with true strobes, and the amount of power available to you is very small. It's nearly impossible for instance to fill a large soft box with light and place it several feet from the model.

    With a DF body and LS lenses and a V-Grip and Profoto Air receiver you can do this wirelessly with full studio strobe power (provided your flash units can go to a fast enough duration at the power you're using at them). The V-Grip contains an Air transmitter - so you don't even need to have a transmitter on top of the camera.


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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    With the 5D2 at 1/1600 you can only do this with their small flash units, not with true strobes, and the amount of power available to you is very small. It's nearly impossible for instance to fill a large soft box with light and place it several feet from the model.

    With a DF body and LS lenses and a V-Grip and Profoto Air receiver you can do this wirelessly with full studio strobe power (provided your flash units can go to a fast enough duration at the power you're using at them). The V-Grip contains an Air transmitter - so you don't even need to have a transmitter on top of the camera.


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    Thanks Doug, it will only works with Profoto equipment or i can use any other manufacture who can deliver me fast duration strobes?

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Thanks guys, all the info is very important for me, i know the pros and cons for each system, the 1/1600 sync time is very tempting as a fashion photographer, i can freeze the outdoors scene and get a pin-sharp photo.
    You'll need the 1/1600 sync with that big clunking focal plane shutter in the way on the DF. Sounds like a wheezing old man when you fire the shutter.

    Joking aside, its great the Phase DF and LS lenses have a high sync speed but don't fall too much for the marketing blurb as I think most people get lower sync speeds in the less than perfect world of a photographic assignment.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Thanks Doug, it will only works with Profoto equipment or i can use any other manufacture who can deliver me fast duration strobes?
    Any strobe which has a fast enough duration and has a sync port - just buy an Air receiver.

    You can also connect directly via a sync cable to the power pack but it's not what I recommend (since a voltage spike or other catastrophic accident with the pack could damage the back and because you have to carry around another darn cable connected to the system).

    I don't know about "marketing hype" - syncing at 1/1600 is certainly a niche application. For many uses/users it wouldn't matter if it was 1/1600 or 1/160 (heck, many users never use any flash at all). But some users/uses benefit enormously from the independence that fast sync provides you - freeing shutter speed and ambient light to go up and down independent of the light you are adding into the scene. You've already indicated fast sync is important to you and it's not rocket science to get a true/full 1/1600 flash sync with a DF and LS (though he is right that it's not all strobes at all power levels - you need to know your equipment).

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    My D1 500 watt units will go at full power to 1/1200 but if I power down a touch the flash duration goes up and I can get to 1/1600 . The air remote is what you will need to get those type of wireless speeds. Really the key is the flash duration. If you can get really fast which not all units do than you should be okay with using the air remote set up.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    So...what is the minimum flash duration needed in order to achieve 1/1600 sync speed?

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    So...what is the minimum flash duration needed in order to achieve 1/1600 sync speed?
    It all depends on the spec your flash manufacturer measures their flash duration and the decay of the flash light pulse. Some measure flash duration with t=0.5 which measures the time the intensity of the flash is above 50% of its maximum value. Others use the more accurate t=1.0 measures the length of time the intensity is above 10% of maximum.

    Off the top of my head. I think a flash duration measured with t=0.5 usually means unless you use your flash heads on max or very near max output it equates to about 1/3 of the maximum number quoted. So a t=0.5 duration of 1/1000 is usually about 1/320.

    Someone else can probably explain it better than me though.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I'm bias, but I have a contax and I love it. It's simple and intuitive, the lenses are sharp and fast, and the kit can be picked up very reasonably priced.
    The 80 f2 looks nicer when blurred than an ef 50mm f1.2, and has far less ca. But the canon 85 1.2 is still the most beautiful lens I've used, hopefully using a hasselblad 110mm f2 (purchasing next)will be be as good.

    I went from a h1 to the contax, and even though the h1 is a competent camera, the lenses blur not very nice, and after years of using, I still got lost in menus. I just didn't love it.
    I've tested a p30+ on the contax, but because it already has a smaller finder than the h1, cropping it is a no go. I think you need a almost full frame chip or a full frame.
    I bought a p65 for it, but I have only shot about 4k of images so far, I am very impressed. Also, the 15mb files appear a bit nicer than canon files. P65 shoots very fast in that mode, shooting vertical has more than enough res for most uses, unless there is a heap of cropping.
    The 60mb files are huge, and chew up a heap of space. But shooting med format forces you shoot slower than a canon, so will probably shoot a similar data amount.

    Paul
    Last edited by paulrossjones; 1st September 2011 at 01:54. Reason: Adding stuff

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Also, I just shot for the last few days outside with flash on the contax. Needed to use a 8xnd to reduce the light. So you need more flash.
    Over powered flash outdoors is a bit of an overused, tired technique in my opinion. But sometimes replicating the sun can be helpful when the clouds come out. It would be nice to have a leaf shutter for the contax, but with an nd and turning up the flash power, makes a usable solution.

    Paul

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    It's a shame that Hasselblad isn't that much of an option for you Shay. The True Focus would be great and I find the body and lenses build to be superior but the dealer in Israel just doesn't inspire confidence like Jugend (P1/Leaf dealer).
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    For 1/1600 sync I think you need about 1/3400 flash duration but I need to check that for sure. Dont hold me to that number
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    It's a shame that Hasselblad isn't that much of an option for you Shay. The True Focus would be great and I find the body and lenses build to be superior but the dealer in Israel just doesn't inspire confidence like Jugend (P1/Leaf dealer).
    Agreed, especially for a fashion shooter. I've used H4D's at shows where they were showing the difference and wish i had an H4D body. (I think i'm going to upgrade to get True Focus at some point).

    The difference between 1/800th and 1/1600th for action freezing is negligible. Unless you are shooting the very fastest of action i don't see how that's important.

    And quite frankly unless you have Broncolor Scoro packs, it's unlikely you'd have enough light to take advantage of those speeds anyway.

    Even the Elinchrom Ranger RX AS pack does have a duration of 1/5120 but that's only when you put an A head on the B port, which means less power output. Typical at full power on the A port is 1/2250. Which is plenty fast.

    Don't fall for the numbers game. There is more to your choice than numbers. Feel both systems, look into the support for them.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I really dont understand what should look different regarding the proportion of a human body when using a larger format, or what should look different between an image taken with an 4/3 ration vs one which is cropped to 4/3.

    I agree regarding texture and overall image appearance that MF satisfies me most.

    I could see a difference between WLF and eye-level finder because of different perspective, but other than that?

    Can anybody explain?

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    The difference between 1/800th and 1/1600th for action freezing is negligible. Unless you are shooting the very fastest of action i don't see how that's important.
    1 stop isn't negligible in some situations.

    But more importantly flash sync speed outside of the studio is not just about freezing action, it's about allowing shutter speed, ISO, aperture, and flash to float more independently from each other.

    Just goes to show you how you use a camera largely dictates how important/useful any given feature/spec is for you.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I really dont understand what should look different regarding the proportion of a human body when using a larger format, or what should look different between an image taken with an 4/3 ration vs one which is cropped to 4/3.

    I agree regarding texture and overall image appearance that MF satisfies me most.

    I could see a difference between WLF and eye-level finder because of different perspective, but other than that?

    Can anybody explain?
    What I was referring to in my original post has to do with the angle of the "projecting ray" in relationship to the "principal ray" (lens axis plane)

    http://soma.sbcc.edu/users/DaVega/FI...a,%201611..jpg

    The angle of the projecting ray effects our perception of perspective. It's almost too difficult to fully explain how it works in an internet forum, but there's plenty of information written about it in books on the psychology of Renaissance perspective for anyone that's interested in researching. None of this is taught in photo schools so nobody should feel bad for never having been exposed to it. It's one of those things that a lot of artists outside of photography understand but few photographers are aware of.

    But it should be partially self-explanatory just from looking at the picture that the angle of the projecting ray coming from the "center of projection" is going to change depending on where the subject sits within the "picture plane" (frame.) The angle will be smaller for objects closer to the lens axis plane than those at the edges of the frame. This means that the size of the frame itself can effect the angle of the projecting rays that are captured. Any cropping in post would happen after capture and have no effect on the angle of the projecting rays.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    What I was referring to in my original post has to do with the angle of the "projecting ray" in relationship to the "principal ray" (lens axis plane)

    http://soma.sbcc.edu/users/DaVega/FI...a,%201611..jpg

    The angle of the projecting ray effects our perception of perspective. It's almost too difficult to fully explain how it works in an internet forum, but there's plenty of information written about it in books on the psychology of Renaissance perspective for anyone that's interested in researching. None of this is taught in photo schools so nobody should feel bad for never having been exposed to it. It's one of those things that a lot of artists outside of photography understand but few photographers are aware of.

    But it should be partially self-explanatory just from looking at the picture that the angle of the projecting ray coming from the "center of projection" is going to change depending on where the subject sits within the "picture plane" (frame.) The angle will be smaller for objects closer to the lens axis plane than those at the edges of the frame. This means that the size of the frame itself can effect the angle of the projecting rays that are captured. Any cropping in post would happen after capture and have no effect on the angle of the projecting rays.
    That's a start of an explanation for this amazing brainstorm about proportion over MF VS. proportion over 35MM.

    I really don't know how to explain this phenomena in a non-physically terms , i just can say that somehow human body looks more "right" or proportionally "Natural" over MF, I know that basically it's part psychological, it's how the brain translate the image. I notice this issue by trying to achieve this "esthetic" proportion with 35MM system and lenses (over and over again) and...fail.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I'd certainly include Hasselblad in the mix. I shoot with a H4D-50 and the handling and performance are both excellent

    From a shoot of mine a few days ago, at the Hasselblad Studio in London

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    I'd certainly include Hasselblad in the mix. I shoot with a H4D-50 and the handling and performance are both excellent

    From a shoot of mine a few days ago, at the Hasselblad Studio in London

    The IQ is great, yet i wonder if the skin tone at this photo is set to neutral. it seems to be a bit orange-tinted.
    Reproduction of skin-tone is one of the most important issues for me as a fashion photographer, and white balance should be accurate as hell if i'm gonna spend big bucks for a pro-tool such as 645DF or Hasselblad.

    Can anyone tell me how both systems dealing with skin tone reproductions and accurate zero-point WB?. (Please refer to Leaf, P1, Hass backs)

    Another question - I've had demo with both systems (645DF + HASSY H4D), how critical is the "TRUE FOCUS" technology?, is there any equivalent tech inside the 645DF body?
    Thanks again for this fabulous thread.

  28. #78
    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Hasselblad is known for its colors outside of the box. It's a huge selling point for them and i can confirm it's true. I won't sit here and tell you it's perfect. It's not, but it give you a fantastic starting point. Especially coming from say Canon or Nikon. That being said, i still use color-checkers as color is never perfect especially when influenced from multiple light sources.

    Secondly, True Focus works. Try two images with True Focus on and off. You will see the difference when zooming in. I tested it down in NYC at one of the Hassy Events... it's truly amazing.

    .02

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The D1 are very nice . Little limitation on BIG soft boxes though. Medium size like 3x4 are okay. Just a light spread issue.
    One word Guy ... Plume.

    Gary is great to work with and you'd like him.

    Take a peek at the Plume Wafers ... I have two of them for my studio ... big puppies!

    Also, Profoto can take Elinchrom with their adapter. So, for a big portable unit I use the Elinchrom Octa with a Profoto head.

    Just a few thoughts for you.

    -Marc

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks Marc and yes Plume makes nice boxes for sure
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    On the color issue I can't speak for Hassy but on Phase backs with the Dalsa sensor I use p40, p65 , iq 140 and iq 160 all the same sensor BTW the colors are very neutral which I really like. Now canon/ Nikon I hate which canon was always red toned base and Nikon green based. All this can be adjusted but in general shooting the Kodak sensors on many leicas,P25, P 45 and P 30 always had a tendency to be warm like the Hassy image above which many love that look. The Dalsa and Kodaks have a slightly different look neither one bad but different. I find my sensor at a pretty neutral color tone. That's the tendency but obviously you can work it anyway you want. That's what I have noticed over the years of shooting digital.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I shot this photo with 645DF+P65+ BACK,as a part of fashion editorial i've made.
    loved the outcome skin colors plus a style i prepeard at C1. the all around cool colors are emphasize the style i wish to create. No retouch has obtain.



    LINK TO BIG PHOTO -http://imageshack.us/f/801/10221g.jpg/

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Yes applying a style is a very cool feature in C1 tethered or after the fact.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  34. #84
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Guy, there is any technology inside the 645DF that equals or match "True Focus"?
    BTW-your website is great!, love your work.
    Last edited by SHAY KEDEM; 3rd September 2011 at 06:20.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    The IQ is great, yet i wonder if the skin tone at this photo is set to neutral. it seems to be a bit orange-tinted.
    Reproduction of skin-tone is one of the most important issues for me as a fashion photographer, and white balance should be accurate as hell if i'm gonna spend big bucks for a pro-tool such as 645DF or Hasselblad.

    Can anyone tell me how both systems dealing with skin tone reproductions and accurate zero-point WB?. (Please refer to Leaf, P1, Hass backs)

    Another question - I've had demo with both systems (645DF + HASSY H4D), how critical is the "TRUE FOCUS" technology?, is there any equivalent tech inside the 645DF body?
    Thanks again for this fabulous thread.
    I agree with you, but she had a "sun" tan

    I set the colour temp using a grey card. I think the skin is as I remember it and generally its very good out of camera without adjustment - but of course it is easy enough to tweak in Phocus. Only the Hassy has True Focus - an advanatge supposedly of the intgerated back / body / lens approach.

    BTW, I love the desaturated look you have used too, something I am experimenting with.
    Quentin Bargate
    Director of Bargate Murray, Law Firm of the Year 2012 - 2017, ”leading individual”, Chambers HNW guide, 2017, Photographer

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Guy, there is any technology inside the 645DF that equals or match "True Focus"?
    BTW-your website is great!, love your work.
    No true focus is a Hassy technology. People like it . The DF is fast and accurate but mostly center point . That is the current body but they are working on a new body. Rumor has it maybe even end of this year. I can't confirm that but I am pretty sure of this it will be digital based and not film based. Just don't repeat that. LOL

    It's really all a well kept secret and no one really knows for sure, sort of like a iPhone 5 only worse. I actually like the DF but certainly could be better. If there is a so called weak link in the system that would be it. But I have no real issues focusing so I think
    the grunts come from a experience level somewhat.

    It's not perfect and I would be the first person to say it, the rest of the system is without warts though. you always want to buy a system based on the total parts of that system, obviously some parts will change but the system that does not. Either you buy into Phase or Hassy not just a lens or body. It's all that goes into it and there Is a mother load in both systems.

    The nice thing is we users have a choice. We always want to have that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    .... The DF is fast and accurate but mostly center point . That is the current body but they are working on a new body. ..... I actually like the DF but certainly could be better. If there is a so called weak link in the system that would be it. ....
    Actually Guy, imho, I think the real weak link is not so much the DF body, but the lack of a really kick-*** wide angle lens option for the DF. Sure I like my 35mm D, but I'm talking about a real eye-opener, ala Schneider LS or like the 150mm D lens at the wide focal length offerings. If it were a reality, I bet you'd be thinking twice about your tech cam...of course, that lens would probably cost the same as a technical camera. It's this wide angle kick-*** gap that makes cameras like Stefan Steib's Hartblei HCam B1 an eye-raiser...

    Yeah, I want a Cambo WRS1050 too... Lots of variables, but it's all academic when your pocket book has already been exhausted for this year...

    ken

  38. #88
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Would not argue with you but they are all good just not tech cam good and main reason I bought a tech cam was for amazing wides
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Member SHAY KEDEM's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Today i went to my local P1-LEAF branch-dealer, and the deal has been sealed.
    645DF + LEAF APTUS II - 8 (40MP), 80mm LS +mamiya 55 f/2.8.
    I'm happy, thank you all for your advices and support, now it's the money time.
    Time to move up.
    Special thanks for Yair Shahar (Sorry it's not Yaron, i'm to tired) from LEAF LONDON for his advices.
    Last edited by SHAY KEDEM; 7th September 2011 at 11:57.

  40. #90
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    You probably mean Yair Shahar . I'm probably buying the same kit plus a 120mm Macro soon (in Jerusalem), any chance I can call you?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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  41. #91
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Nice choice you will love that 40 mpx sensor
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Is it too late?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  43. #93
    Member SHAY KEDEM's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    No, give me a call, i'm kinda awake...until i'll fall on the keyboard.

  44. #94
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Shay we should delete your number as a million scammers will probably call you. Let me know and I can wipe it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I've called Shay already so probably fine to delete it, it's on his website anyway and I've FB'd him so that I can stalk him there if necessary!

    That said it would probably cost a fortune for the scammers to call an Israeli cell phone, might be good for a laugh...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thoughts, particularly from Jack as he mentions the lens in his write up on Mamiya lenses, if I'm rarely going to be using the 55mm is the LS worth the extra? it's one heck of a lot of extra! On the other hand it's going to be used for large documents, murals and artwork.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Today i went to my local P1-LEAF branch-dealer, and the deal has been sealed.
    645DF + LEAF APTUS II - 8 (40MP), 80mm LS +mamiya 55 f/2.8.
    Congrats Shay!

  48. #98
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Thoughts, particularly from Jack as he mentions the lens in his write up on Mamiya lenses, if I'm rarely going to be using the 55mm is the LS worth the extra? it's one heck of a lot of extra! On the other hand it's going to be used for large documents, murals and artwork.
    It's a awesome lens but remember all wides have barrel distotation. C1 will correct for it but for shooting artwork you want to be careful with it. 80 and above would more suited for artwork . That said it's one of my most favored lenses and I have a amazing copy of it . Ben if you are going with the crop sensor your not going to have to worry about corners. A 45d and the 55d might be just fine and cheaper. If your after a look than go LS as these have a nice tonal transition in them. Great for people.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Guy, I'm wondering about this. Crop sensor and all shooting will be at a minimum f8-f11. Money is tight, very tight as they just turned the whole project round on me today drastically (I was just going to go for the RZ but now they want me to manage a team using the thing not just myself but more to the point they want me to have shot a million delicate pages within two years and I have to find the money for the data storage somewhere as well!). I was thinking, I dont think I need the 55LS, I'll be using it very rarely to be honest so the ultra cheap regular 55mm should do. However perhaps I should be saving on the 80mm and getting the D instead? Shot stopped down and using C1 will I really see $3K or so difference? I still want the 120mm D as apparently only the newer version has focus confirm on the camera eventhough it's manual focus and if I'm to train others to use the system I want as much handholding as I can get to be honest. Unless even the older 120mm will have in body focus confirm?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  50. #100
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    You don't need the LS either with the 80D being stopped down will be fine and BTW its a damn nice lens anyway, actually underrated. Do get the 120 as it will obviously be the best copy lens in this system. Get a 55D but the only issue with it is there is no manual focus clutch which can be a PITA you have to switch the bottom left switch on the body to M. Honestly I would stretch a touch and get the 45D which has the clutch its not cheap but you will be happier for it. Since your saving on LS you should stay within a nice budget range. Here is what they look like and be looking for . Obviously the 120 and 80D you can get used pretty easily. The 45D will be a tougher one to find used. Now in all honesty I would never buy another lens without the clutch but have to remember i am one of those fast shooters that does PR stuff a lot and you a wedding guy and I know your going to sneak this in your workflow LOL

    So think dual purpose here and you will be fine with this kit doing a wedding gig as well so no worries . You know I owned this sensor in the P40+ and you guys are going to be thrilled with it. This back should shoot fast and give you wonderful clean images. Now not sure but ask Yair if there is a compressed raw mode Ben. That is something you may want to look at in Phase we call it S mode and not sure if Leaf has the same or not my bet they do. That will save you a ton of space.

    http://www.captureintegration.com/store/lenses/
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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