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Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Haha, so true. Let's not go down that road. I'm an Elinchrom User, but a very happy one indeed.
Lol Profoto D1 airs which I just switched too but full power I can get 1/1200 of second with the air remote. Have to drop power to get 1/1600 but here again very few lights and remotes will get us there. Seriously over 1/800 is pretty specialized and not normally needed.

Marketing is great but reality works differently.
 

symbolphoto

New member
I am also an Elinchrom user, so I guess maximum utilization would be best! So Brendan, do you like your Hassy and Elinchrom Combo, sorry to ask here, but while we've just touched upon it. Thanks!
Hey Pop,
I find it to be an awesome combination. I do mostly wedding stuff, so flash duration isn't a huge deal for me like it would be say to a sports shooter or someone looking to freeze motion.

But one thing that Elinchrom and some other manufacturers differ on is that Elinchrom has some of its fastest duration at the higher power levels and Profoto/Broncolor and those types have it on the less powerful part of the band. Not a huge deal, especially for me, but if you shoot action, it may be worth noting. (I have no idea what you shoot).

I run a wedding photography business. I don't have tinker time... we are a very busy studio here in Boston and i went with Hasselblad partly because of the leaf shutters and because it was a fully integrated system. I figured it being fully integrated, that being from capture to photoshop was all done in Hasselblad's proprietary system. No funky batteries for the body and back, and different pieces of software etc... Hasselblad just seems like it'd work right out of the box. And it did. Lastly, i figured if i had to contact support, my setup would be very much like anyone else's setup. So it seemed like support would be better for my scenario.

However, don't let that scare you away from Mamiya/Phase. They really have the integration down to a science and it barely feels like separate components anymore. And it being a fully open systems allows you to do things like use technical cameras and such.... so it's still a great option.

But for me, Hasselblad has been really great. I can't use it all the time (My 5DMKII's are still my workhorses of weddings), but on special weddings/occasions i use it and it always delivers. I do lots of retouching and the it really works out well for that having all that resolution.

Frank Doorhof is coming to my studio next week to teach a workshop. And i'll be using the Hassy a lot during that time, including taking lots of shots in outdoor sunlight with it. So i'll have some more non-wedding related photos to post soon.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I would also suggest looking at the Pentax 645D. That has all the features of a modern DSLR.
 

pophoto

New member
Brendan, thanks for sharing. I usually shoot landscape and people, nothing fast moving.
Guy, the D1 set looks fantastic, I was thinking about it a while back!

I also took a look at the Pentax 645D, but seems there is a lack of glass available for it, which is the biggest decider against it for myself.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The D1 are very nice . Little limitation on BIG soft boxes though. Medium size like 3x4 are okay. Just a light spread issue.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Thats for another thread to be honest. For what the OP is doing and where he lives just not sure it is the answer but be happy to talk about it. I'm still not convinced a s2 is either. Simple reasons service , support , repair, software, lenses , accessories , back up to them, overnight replacements. Just a whole slew of stuff people don't even consider. Its not just about taking a image but the whole backend of it.
 

pophoto

New member
Also how do you guys feel about the current state of glass available for these systems. Any backfocus errors or the like, what are my chances of getting dud in the lens, will I be trying hard to find the best glass for it. What has your experience been with the quality? (Again, this is to elborate on choosing the system here, although I know it might be served on a new thread)
I've recently read the comparison between Mamiya and Hassy Lenses, where the Hassys were somewhat lower in resolving power. (source: Mamiya website)

Also let me play devils avocate here. How limited would you guys feel if the Leica S2 were only MF camera available to shoot with?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just lost my whole post but it deserves it's own thread. If you want to start one be happy to join in but its not just about taking a image but a whole slew of backend stuff.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I agree. Cameras are systems. The reliability of the Mamiya bodies, for example, is very questionable. They are also getting very long in the tooth. No system is perfect, but I see no real reason the Pentax is not something to consider.

I posted to offer an alternative to to the OP. I see no reason for a separate post as I am not really interested in a which-camera-is-better converstion. I assume the OP will do his research to find the best solution for his work.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Also how do you guys feel about the current state of glass available for these systems. Any backfocus errors or the like, what are my chances of getting dud in the lens, will I be trying hard to find the best glass for it. What has your experience been with the quality? (Again, this is to elborate on choosing the system here, although I know it might be served on a new thread)
I've recently read the comparison between Mamiya and Hassy Lenses, where the Hassys were somewhat lower in resolving power. (source: Mamiya website)

Also let me play devils avocate here. How limited would you guys feel if the Leica S2 were only MF camera available to shoot with?
I think the current state of the glass is great , can't speak for Hassy but I hear great things as far as Phase they have excellent glass and I laugh till I pee my paints when I read it don't. Obviously someone not using them, but most of the Phase D glass is extremely good. The LS glass is awesome but here is where Phase gets the ding, and this has been going on before our time the old stuff is just okay . Some are good and some are not . The D glass is very good but there are a couple that take the whole line down as a piece of crap system. The 35,45 have and can be problematic and you have to look for a good one. The corners can go a little softer in the corners on the Full frame sensors on the crop sensors not a issue. The 28mm is a outstanding lens but he very far far corners go soft consider it a 31mm lens instead. The 55, 80 . 120, 150 D lenses are awesome. The 150 D maybe the sharpest lens I have used. The LS glass i absolutely love and my 55mm just about beat the new 60 schneider tech lens. on a 180 no less. I'm talking picky picky here.

So these comments that Phase glass is crap is not only fair it is infurating because it is so far from the truth. Please believe I would NOT be shooting it if it was, i am a lens whore through and through. I shot Leica/Zeiss for years.

The S2 question just like the Pentax question what is its true backup another unit. There is nothing one can do here except buy the same or use another system. Hassy and Phase have options to cover itself. That is one of the benefits of a modular system. This debate is a big deadhorse BTW as its been slammed around for awhile now. But we can't escape the facts and I like the S2 a lot. Great glass they have on it. I honestly don't want to debate this anymore myself but some folks consider them Pro worthy and some will not. There is so much on the backend that gets left out of these discussions and more importantly gets ignored until the **** hits the fan, than the tune changes.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I agree. Cameras are systems. The reliability of the Mamiya bodies, for example, is very questionable. They are also getting very long in the tooth. No system is perfect, but I see no real reason the Pentax is not something to consider.

I posted to offer an alternative to to the OP. I see no reason for a separate post as I am not really interested in a which-camera-is-better converstion. I assume the OP will do his research to find the best solution for his work.
Can you give me figure on the reliability of the Mamiya bodies( the DF has been out a year). Seriously where is it written where are the repair numbers and that goes for Hassy systems as well where are the hard cold facts from the repair shops. Sure any body can have issues and I have had them in every system but general broad statements without facts is hard to swallow. I'm talking about the whole system service , support, repairs, software, accessories, lenses availability, overnight replacements and all that we depend on. I'm sorry Pentax has not proven itself in these areas yet. Now does Phase need a new body YES THE DO but it is not because of reliability issues. Its because it is digital based now not film. TOTALLY agree on that one but it is not a reliability thing but yes some have failed. May I ask what are you going to do when the Pentax body fails. That is a 10k backup to it, just like the S2 what are you going to do when they need repair. I'm sorry to bring it up but it can't be ignored either. These are the decisions that go through our heads every time we decide to buy into a system. There is simple a laundry list we have to look at and its a big one. We can all go out and buy 3 Nikons and it won't matter if it fails or not its chump change but when 10k systems and above come into play we have to think smarter and these decisions become a nightmare to make. I want the Pentax to be a success but it also like the S2 has to prove itself in the market and can sustain itself in the future, its just to early right now. That is not meant to be negative in anyway either but like anything in this business longevity of product and a system support of it are usually long standing and been going on for years. Believe me a 10k 40mpx camera is exciting as hell and i give Pentax a ton of credit for doing it and glad they are out here trying to get a place in the MF industry we need more like them. They just need some time. I said the same thing of the S2 it just needs to mature in to full system with all its parts. I think everyone wants more players in this field and as end users that could help our pockets too.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
The backup question is a bit of a red herring. For the price of one IQ140 back, I can buy two complete Pentax bodies and still have change left over. Hasselblad looks like it is moving to an integrated body and there is a long history of professional cameras that are not modular.

The question is simple, you have a budget and you purchase what you think is the best solution for the budget and your work.

Guy, you have found a way that works well for you. I have no problem with that. But not everyone has reached the same conclusion. I simply offered a suggestion. (I also take exception in your implication that I am somehow less than "professional." It is possible for professionals to work in different ways and come to different conclusions.)
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
No I don't mean to slight the Pentax at all but again a back goes down is very very rare it is usually the body and that is a cheap replacement to the system. That is what i am pointing out.

Btw I NEVER said you where less than professional. I own this site and would NEVER say that to anyone EVER. That is not even remotely a possibility coming from me. I simply am not like that at all. So you misread that or read it incorrectly. Sorry if it was implied just simply would not enter my mind never mind actually say that.
 

pophoto

New member
Shashin, I agree with Guy that his comment was meant for the Pentax 645D alone, and not necessarily anyone using it! I also think it is a great camera for anyone entering into MF, but its current offering is still a little thin and hope they can offer more lenses and support.

Guy, thank you for your thorough answer, but I may have started a new thread because I misunderstood a post...oops again!
 

SHAY KEDEM

New member
Thanks guys, all the info is very important for me, i know the pros and cons for each system, the 1/1600 sync time is very tempting as a fashion photographer, i can freeze the outdoors scene and get a pin-sharp photo.
on the 5DM2 i shoot with Polarizer filter over the lens and at very fast shutter speed (2.8 / 1/1600 and up) and i get beautiful results, hope to achieve easily the same technique on MF system
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Thanks guys, all the info is very important for me, i know the prone and cons for each system, the 1/1600 sync time is very tempting as a fashion photographer, i can freeze the outdoors scene and get a pin-sharp photo.
on the 5DM2 i shoot with Polarizer filter over the lens and at very fast shutter speed (2.8 / 1/1600 and up) and i get beautiful results, hope to achieve easily the same technique on MF system
With the 5D2 at 1/1600 you can only do this with their small flash units, not with true strobes, and the amount of power available to you is very small. It's nearly impossible for instance to fill a large soft box with light and place it several feet from the model.

With a DF body and LS lenses and a V-Grip and Profoto Air receiver you can do this wirelessly with full studio strobe power (provided your flash units can go to a fast enough duration at the power you're using at them). The V-Grip contains an Air transmitter - so you don't even need to have a transmitter on top of the camera.


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