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Thread: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

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    Member SHAY KEDEM's Avatar
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    Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Hi, i'm a fashion photographer working world wide.
    I own the top-notch canon's gear (1DS3+5DM2) and the best prime lenses.
    recently (for few months now) i started to feel very uncomfortable with the output files, the proportion of a model's body and the overall width of a portrait shot (spaces on the shoulders of a frame)

    I put myself into a demo from P1 here at Israel, we did some test-shots over a fashion production i've had at the same day.

    I've had some thoughts about some physical assumptions i've made about the MF systems and why models looks better over MF sensor, proportion, length end the space that the body "prints" himself over the MF RATIO.

    Conclusion - the physics can't lie - the body of a model is more "accurate" to the human eye through a 6x4.5 ration (4:3 ?), more esthetic and long (portrait situation, standing on the studio's floor, full-body shot)
    the face more alike the real-life view, same as body, limbs etc.

    I think that for a long time i've had dis-satisfaction that can't override by the top equipment, and the answer for me is to move up to a MF system.

    I would really appreciate if you guys can give me some advice about 3 top bullets:

    1. what is the big difference between AFDIII and DF body (P1 or Mamiya)
    2. what is the big difference from 1.3 crop MF sensor and full frame?
    3. Dynamic range - which back gives the most out of a DR 12.5 stops ?

    Thank you
    Best Regards,
    Shay Kedem
    Photographer.
    Last edited by SHAY KEDEM; 30th August 2011 at 10:39.

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    Senior Member symbolphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Forgive me for asking, but why have you cut out Hasselblad from the equation?

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    Member SHAY KEDEM's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Forgive me for asking, but why have you cut out Hasselblad from the equation?
    Not for a certain reason, just loved the P1 body and that it feels like DSLR in my hand.

    I didn't buy MF system yet, just want to make some sense spending out around 17,000EUR for body, back and lens, and to learn as much as i can before the purchase.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Welcome Shay! And MF is a slippery slope

    1) Biggest difference is AF speed and accuracy, plus you need the DF body to work with the LS lenses.

    2) Aside from net pixel count differences, the only real difference is crop factor. The upside is it falls into the sweetest part of the lens optically, the downside is it makes all of your lenses effectively 1/3rd longer focal, so can limit wides.

    3) DR is a difficult discussion. First there is a strict engineering definition based on noise level. But as far as viewing is concerned, higher levels of noise may be acceptable and then with careful processing you can often expand tonality in the final image beyond the stated spec. Even more so if a given back has a more pleasing noise signature. Conversely, the moment you add a tone curve or contrast, you reduce visual tonal range, and most MFDB captures look pretty flat and uninteresting without some added contrast. The only conclusive answer I can give you is my P65+ had a little more usable DR than my P45+, and my IQ180 has a little more than my P65+ had. And then I'd add I never felt unduly limited in DR from my P45+. But then at the same time, I do find myself adding black to my IQ180 images fairly regularly...
    Jack
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    Member SHAY KEDEM's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks Jack,
    what about the proportion of a human body over 6x4.5 sensor?
    are my assumptions comes true? (i've had only 30 min. to enjoy the P1 system).
    again- it felt like the full-body portrait is more alike the "real life" view than a 35mm view at the same focal length.
    (maybe it's only glass or so, i don't really know, or maybe its the physics of beaming the picture over the MF ratio)

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I would seriously look at an H4D over a DF if I was a fashion shooter coming from a Canon as the Hasselblad camera is a joy to use and the lenses silky smooth in operation. The Phase One backs and the Schneider glass in the lenses is amazing but the DF and construction of all the lenses is very average and not worth the money they ask for them IMO.

    You really should test the Hassellad before you part with your hard earned.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Thanks Jack,
    what about the proportion of a human body over 6x4.5 sensor?
    are my assumptions comes true? (i've had only 30 min. to enjoy the P1 system).
    again- it felt like the full-body portrait is more alike the "real life" view than a 35mm view at the same focal length.
    (maybe it's only glass or so, i don't really know, or maybe its the physics of beaming the picture over the MF ratio)
    Hello Shay Kedem...welcome to the forum

    You may be right about a difference in the appearance of proportion between different sensor sizes. However, my own experience has led me to believe that the major differences in the portrayal of life-like qualities (between medium format and 35mm) has to do with texture.

    Texture and surface tonality can look false to the human eye when captured on lower resolution and low quality camera systems. Complex patterns in fashion textile patterns and especially human hair have a "firmness" or a "solidity" to them that always looks more believable on medium format than 35mm.

    In gestalt psychology, there is something called the "law of closure." According to gestalt, when a viewer looks at a photograph that is missing detail then his/ her subconscious mind actually creates detail in order to fill-in the perception of missing details. There is more detail contained in a good MF file than a 35mm and this means that the human mind does not have to work as hard at creating missing detail using it's subconscious. The result is that viewer perceives a more accurate depiction of the subject matter and much less less distortion. It's very possible that this phenomenon is what you are experiencing by the perception of differences in appearance of "proportion" between formats.

    If you get another opportunity to test MF, then I'd suggest looking carefully at the complex patterns in clothing and human hair. There's a good chance that any good MF system will render them well regardless of sensor ratios. This means that systems like the Leica S2 with a 2:3 ratio could be just as good of an option as 6x4.5 etc

    Fashion is the one place where I genuinely believe that digital 35mm looks bad. That's just my personal opinion, and others are certainly free to disagree. But the majority of editorials and campaigns that are currently being shot by lower tier photographers are being done with smaller formats and the tell-tale signs are always present in the complex patterns. The lack of detail in those areas gives a falseness to the photographs.

    Steven Meisel and Patrick Demarchalier are two examples of photographers that have work displaying strong detail in complex patterns. It might be worth checking out some of their recent studio work to see if you like it's sense of proportion and firmness in texture.

    Hope that helps a bit - best of luck with your decision

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    ah...now that I think about it...there are certain instances where format ratio would definitely effect a perception of proportion and it has to do with position of the lens axis plane within the frame.

    The lens axis plane is always in the center of the photograph (unless using tilt/shift) If the format is 2:3 then the lens axis plane will be closer to the edges of the inner side of the frame than the outer. Depending on the composition, this could effect a perception of proportion between subject matter that is farther away from the lens axis plane in relationship to subject matter that is closer. 6x4.5 format might have a more equal distribution of distance between the lens axis plane and the edges of the frame, so this could make a more harmonious perception of proportional relationships between subject matter contained at the edges of the frame. But it really depends on composition....my guess is that the differences might be more evident in close-up shots, like headshots, than in full body shots.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    Thanks Jack,
    what about the proportion of a human body over 6x4.5 sensor?
    are my assumptions comes true?
    I have preferred 4:3 for most vertical subjects for many years. Heck, I prefer it for most horizontal subjects too. So yes, I do agree with you. I think the average proportions of the human body just seem to work well within it. Moreover, it also is a nice "frame size" for composing according to the golden mean or Fibonacci spiral rules.
    Jack
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Mike, Jack, thanks, i think you just nailed it.
    BTW-Mike, Steven Meisel using 645DF with DB.

    BTW2- recently i'm cropping my 5DM2 photos to 6X4.5 square, but hey, who am i kidding?, it's not the real deal...(cause again, the proportion of a body will not change) it's only more equal to the eye.

    BTW3- I published several photos on VOGUE ITALIA's website, most of them cropped 6x4.5
    they used to this crop over there.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    i prefer 4/3 also... just for information : i think that with a D3X you can shoot 4/3... in fact 24x32...

    Still if i was in your choose, i will go with an IQ140 and a DF Body.

    I personally can't go that way because i'm shooting really different stuffs (architecture and artwork) !

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post

    BTW3- I published several photos on VOGUE ITALIA's website, most of them cropped 6x4.5
    they used to this crop over there.
    Congrats! I love Vogue Italia

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    1) Biggest difference is AF speed and accuracy, plus you need the DF body to work with the LS lenses.
    And you really will want the LS lenses to use in a studio with strobe. I just have the Phase 645AF and every so often would really like to use strobes with it. But then I just pull out my RZ

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    During the cold Massachusetts winters, I shoot mostly girls which is just about the only subject warmer than a icicle (other metaphor deleted) in-studio.
    I found the 4:3 ratios just about right to allow for a good amount of space and crop-ability.
    As for AF, the DF is ok and the older bodies are just awful by comparison. But I have moved from a 1DsMIII to a DF and the technique as well as the shooting pace needed adjustment. At the end of the day, the slower pace worked out well at least for me.
    -bob

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Fashion photographers also have to consider how each individual photo will look within an editorial style sequence. Print magazines have traditionally been dominated by vertical crops but many editorials are now being shot exclusively for the internet and this allows much more freedom to work in horizontal. A nice feature of 6x4.5 is that horizontal and vertical full-frame shots work well together when placed in a series. The 2:3 ratio has much more of an abrupt change between full-frame horizontal and vertical shots. This is just one more possible reason that makes good sense for some fashion shooters to migrate towards 6x4.5 over 2:3

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    If i'll put to test the P1-645DF vs. Hasselblad H4D-31, which ergonomics, solid, anti-dust facilities and ease of use is more "pro" in feel?. i know it's a matter of taste, and i won't start a "HASSY VS. PHASY" kinda fight at my first day here, but hey - have you test the Hasselblad H4D-31 or you own one?.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by SHAY KEDEM View Post
    If i'll put to test the P1-645DF vs. Hasselblad H4D-31, which ergonomics, solid, anti-dust facilities and ease of use is more "pro" in feel?. i know it's a matter of taste, and i won't start a "HASSY VS. PHASY" kinda fight at my first day here, but hey - have you test the Hasselblad H4D-31 or you own one?.
    I do prefer the hassy for fashion, but I find is not flexible or adaptable for landscape but I find the DF acceptable for fashion and it sings for landscape.
    YMMV
    -bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    No question I know what I would buy here is a Iq 140 for the speed of back on a DF with 110mm LS lens and the 80 LS lens. Second back choice the IQ 160 if you don't like working the crop factor. I have the 160 and it is pretty dang fast. Faster than I thought.

    I happen to like the DF, some may not and I shoot a lot of handheld work. Here you need to get it in your hand and try it under your style of shooting .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    My work is inside the studio and outdoors, both handheld, 1/1600 is crucial for my work, i'm moving around the model and shooting in motion.
    the IQ series is a bit expensive for me right now, the options are:
    P40+ / P-60+ or H4D-31.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I understand the cost factor for sure. I had the P40 and loved that back a lot as it is the same sensor as my 160 only smaller. My toughest part with the P40 was dealing with the crop and shooting fast doing fashion you could run into a wall on the crop factor units . What happens is it is sometimes hard to see the crop lines in the finder when you are shooting against different backgrounds. You will get used to it but you are seeing visually outside the sensor on the screen. I did it for almost 2 years with the P30 and P40 units and i finally went Ful frame and i can shoot and frame to the edge. Certainly easier on me.

    If you need 1/1600 than you need the DF for its flash sync also and the LS glass. Right now 55,80 and 110 and with 150 and 240 in the works. So you are pretty covered with the LS lenses which are really nice too. If you go used P40 its around 13k and used P65 around 23k. So you have to look at your budget and see where you are at but seriously I loved the P40 my only bitch was the crop factor and you can certainly deal with it and get used to working like that.

    I will say I do like this Dalsa sensor for color as it is pretty neutral which I think is best for fashion, you will get occasional moire with almost any back but less with the smaller micron ones like this sensor. The P30 and H31 use a higher pixel pitch sensor which the higher the pixel pitch the higher the chance on moire. They also use micro lenses on these backs the H31 and P30 which are not good for tech cams but that is not your concern.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I have H4D-60 which is traded in from my previous H3DII-39, it is fine or so so for landscapes but it is shinning for fashion in studio, all the shots i did of portraits not fashionable were all perfect and i am happy and the people were happy, the files are amazing, sure Phase One and Leaf are capable of those too, but i preferred that Hasselblad for portraiture in studio and out, if i will do landscape i will go for Phase, but for fashion i am very happy with my Hasselblad, and forget H4D-31, go with H4D-40 or H4D-50.
    Tareq

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I agree I would tend to stay away from the H31 and P30 today given how nice the newer 40mpx sensors are. Just think in the long run the newer tech backs are the balance point over the older Kodak chips in those backs although still very good and where for years. I just like these sensors better overall. I believe the H40 is also Dalsa and the H50 is Kodak but of a newer design 6 micron over the H31 and P 30 which if I recall correctly
    6.8 micron.
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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I believe the H40 is also Dalsa and the H50 is Kodak but of a newer design 6 micron over the H31 and P 30 which if I recall correctly 6.8 micron.
    The H4D-40 and H4D-50 both use a new generation of Kodak chip and its only the H4D-60 that uses the Dalsa chip like the P65+.

    Its hard to explain but to me, Phase backs have a very different look to the Hasselblad equivalents. A more polished "advertising look" and if I shot fashion, I'd prefer the more raw look of the Kodak chipped Hasselblad's. They just render the textures differently.

    Its very hard to explain the way the different systems render the image and its best to test them both to see for yourself IMO. The Phase files look amazing straight from capture as they have some curves etc applied to them. In comparison, the Blad files are pretty flat straight from camera and leave the photographer to tweak so this can be a shock at first but don't let that put you off.

    As others have stated I'd avoid the 31 and ideally look at the H4D-40/50 or the H3D-39II.

    Fun times ahead!!!

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I moved from a D300 to a ZD on a ADF-II then o a P30+

    All I really shoot with it is fine art figure in the studio, either strobe or natural light.

    As Guy has said, the crop factor matters a lot! In the small community here, I have just bought his 35mm lens ( third hand!), and I'm still lusting after the 28mm.

    I now have finally got my tethering working, and if I had actual clients, rather than just doing this as a hobby, the wow factor of C1 coupled with iPads would be a heavy factor in leaning towards P1. Look closely at the software what ever choice you make. LightRoom does not work well with P1 files.

    Another factor for me is that once the MF vs FF dSLR bridge is crossed, the lenses available become a factor, I'm still using the pre digital lenses, and they are VERY good relative to the Nikon primes. The D lenses while better than the old ones, for me, are some what marginal diminishing returns. For my work, a leaf shutter is not really that important.

    I cannot fully explain this effect, but somehow, I think that my rate of growth in what I want and can get from an image has been much faster with MF .... some how, I just could not get there ( where ever that is ) with the Nikon .... I tried a D3X, and it was just more of the same. The discussion about texture has something to do with it, but there is still more in it than just that. Vague as it is, I'm really happy with the P30+

    Do drop me a note if you would care to see some of my work.

    YMMV

    Dave

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks Gareth for the correction on the H40. Reason I said I believe. LOL

    We always want accurate data for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Shay one other thing being in Isreal is you may have limits on your support factor. What type of dealer network you have for support. If you only have a certain brand available this is something to consider as well.

    BTW let's not forget Leaf backs in all this, they also produce outstanding backs and a lot of folks here are using them as well. Usually tied into a Mamiya system but some folks use Leaf and Phase backs on the older Hassy H2 bodies.

    You certainly have options.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Btw to point out a new IQ 140 is almost exactly the same price as a used P65. The only sensor difference is the crop. They use the same sensor but the IQ series offers the new tech in the LCD. One other note that I found in the IQ 160 is the speed of the back is very fast compared to the P65, now I never ran a speed test between them but the Iq series is very fast at shooting which has big processors to move data. My bet is the IQ with being 40mpx is going to fly here over all the rest of the Phase backs. If you are a heavy speed shooting shooter than this is certainly something to consider. MF is slower shooting than the Canon/Nikon brands.

    The shooting speeds are posted on Phase site in the specs if you want to look at that. Just given the same money and maybe no need for 60 mpx it is something to think about on the IQ 140. I know I drove myself crazy making the same decisions. I had the IQ 140 on order first than thought P65 for the same money and I finally said screw it and go for the IQ 160. So your not alone here making these tough decisions. So know all your options
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I'm new here, and also just moving up from Canon 1DsIII to Phase One. Comparing the 1DsIII images to the P65+, I'm blown away by the increase in detail and dynamic range.

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the current sale on the P65+ package (back, body and 80mm lens) on sale in the US for $29,990. I originally had ordered the IQ160 package, but when the P65+ sale came out, I changed my order to the P65+ and added a couple more lenses instead. Since I use the system almost exclusively for landscape work, the features on the IQ series were not that important to me, but the price difference was too hard to pass up.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Well said and I know a lot of people are going for used or new P65 and I have recommended them to many. It's a awesome back and same sensors as my 160. If you don't need or want the new tech than you can save a LOT of money going to the P65 and that new promotion is very nice on the P65. For studio shooters there is really no need for the IQ since many will be tethered anyway or in a controlled environment .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Shay, one more thing... i'm assuming you use strobes with models. The Hassy uses only leaf shutter lenses vs. most Mamiya lenses rely on the body focal plane shutter. The ones that don't are typically prohibitively expensive.(Except the 80mm)

    I have the H3DII-31 which is the predecessor to the H4D-31. I can shoot anywhere from 30 seconds to 1/800th a second sync speed with ALL Hasselblad lenses. That and you can pick up a 100 2.2 Hassy (Arguably one of the best) lenses used on forums for typically around 2500.

    Example: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/fo...?topic=45837.0

    So that's another factor to keep in mind. They are both great systems, but it's important to know the pluses and minuses of each.

    .02

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Yes and Phase right now has 3 on the market that will do up to 1/1600 flash sync in the LS glass. Currently 55,80,110 with 150 and 240 in the works. On the other side of the coin it is focal plane shutter as well and can go to 1/4000 of a second with all lenses. Actually i think these are the biggest differences between the two systems. Obviously others but these stand out the most. So its a back and forth on needs here on which system will work best for you. End of the day they are both great systems and there is not a wrong one. But good to know and understand the data so you can make a smart choice. Worst case you buy one without doing the homework and your wrong.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Hey Shay, if you are in Antwerp and my P40+ set is not yet sold you are welcome to try this one and see if it fit's you.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Hello,

    I am also new here. I also wanted to ask questions about the Hasselblads and the IQ series, but seems like there's a lot of answers in different forums here. However, I also wanted to know the biggest difference or shall I say advantages/disadvantages in focal plane shutter and leaf shutter lenses.

    Thanks,
    Po

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Leaf style shutters and FP explained here in depth: http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1...thighspeed.pdf

    Lots of other good articles here: http://www.hasselbladusa.com/downloa...-articles.aspx

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Some basics focal plane shutters are typical of all your Canon/Nikon cams out there and only go as high as 1/250 flash sync speed but they typical go to as much as a high shutter speed as 1/8000 of a second. The shutter itself is a curtain that either travels across or up depending on camera and that time that it is fully open is the max 1/250 so a flash will catch that time period.

    Leaf shutters go to only about 1/800 of a second top shutter speed. But a leaf shutter opens from closed position to open position in a circle so it can catch with careful timing by the OEM in building them the flash can be seen up to 1/800 of a second. Very basic answer here. If you go to Hassy they describe leaf shutters pretty well and how they function. So all the Hassy lenses are leaf shutters and go to a max of 1/800 and no more. Now say your outside and want to shoot at a very wide open aperture well 1/800 maybe to slow in bright sunlight and in that case you may have to put a ND filter on. That is the downside here and if your shooting race cars or sports you have that limit. Not typical of MF but just FYI.

    Now Phase tricks the LS lenses with the leaf shutters in them to sync at 1/1600 of a second. Not sure EXACTLY how they do it off hand but it does work at that speed.

    These are your basic differences and again you can get a full story on leaf lenses from the Hassy site or one of the Hassy reps can give you a link on that data.

    Just to add a data point on the Phase bodies and lenses they all will do focal plane but only the LS will do both leaf and focal plane. So your LS lenses will go to 1/4000 but only sync at 1/1600 max. And you need lights that have a extremely fast flash duration as well. Not all lighting will do that. But that is a whole other topic.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks for posting that link on the Hassy stuff , we posted the same time
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Not all lighting will do that. But that is a whole other topic.
    Haha, so true. Let's not go down that road. I'm an Elinchrom User, but a very happy one indeed.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+




    ^ not the best example but it's something i have online.... shot at 1/800th during full sunlight daytime. It's great having the ability to black out the sky if needed.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thanks Brendan and Guy, for your scarily quick replies.
    If I didn't know better, I would have thought you guys posted the same time as my question! Very informative indeed!

    I am also an Elinchrom user, so I guess maximum utilization would be best! So Brendan, do you like your Hassy and Elinchrom Combo, sorry to ask here, but while we've just touched upon it. Thanks!

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    We did post exactly the same time. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by symbolphoto View Post
    Haha, so true. Let's not go down that road. I'm an Elinchrom User, but a very happy one indeed.
    Lol Profoto D1 airs which I just switched too but full power I can get 1/1200 of second with the air remote. Have to drop power to get 1/1600 but here again very few lights and remotes will get us there. Seriously over 1/800 is pretty specialized and not normally needed.

    Marketing is great but reality works differently.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    I am also an Elinchrom user, so I guess maximum utilization would be best! So Brendan, do you like your Hassy and Elinchrom Combo, sorry to ask here, but while we've just touched upon it. Thanks!
    Hey Pop,
    I find it to be an awesome combination. I do mostly wedding stuff, so flash duration isn't a huge deal for me like it would be say to a sports shooter or someone looking to freeze motion.

    But one thing that Elinchrom and some other manufacturers differ on is that Elinchrom has some of its fastest duration at the higher power levels and Profoto/Broncolor and those types have it on the less powerful part of the band. Not a huge deal, especially for me, but if you shoot action, it may be worth noting. (I have no idea what you shoot).

    I run a wedding photography business. I don't have tinker time... we are a very busy studio here in Boston and i went with Hasselblad partly because of the leaf shutters and because it was a fully integrated system. I figured it being fully integrated, that being from capture to photoshop was all done in Hasselblad's proprietary system. No funky batteries for the body and back, and different pieces of software etc... Hasselblad just seems like it'd work right out of the box. And it did. Lastly, i figured if i had to contact support, my setup would be very much like anyone else's setup. So it seemed like support would be better for my scenario.

    However, don't let that scare you away from Mamiya/Phase. They really have the integration down to a science and it barely feels like separate components anymore. And it being a fully open systems allows you to do things like use technical cameras and such.... so it's still a great option.

    But for me, Hasselblad has been really great. I can't use it all the time (My 5DMKII's are still my workhorses of weddings), but on special weddings/occasions i use it and it always delivers. I do lots of retouching and the it really works out well for that having all that resolution.

    Frank Doorhof is coming to my studio next week to teach a workshop. And i'll be using the Hassy a lot during that time, including taking lots of shots in outdoor sunlight with it. So i'll have some more non-wedding related photos to post soon.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    I would also suggest looking at the Pentax 645D. That has all the features of a modern DSLR.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Brendan, thanks for sharing. I usually shoot landscape and people, nothing fast moving.
    Guy, the D1 set looks fantastic, I was thinking about it a while back!

    I also took a look at the Pentax 645D, but seems there is a lack of glass available for it, which is the biggest decider against it for myself.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    The D1 are very nice . Little limitation on BIG soft boxes though. Medium size like 3x4 are okay. Just a light spread issue.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    The Pentax is nice but for a working pro , I would not recommend it. Just not there yet
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The Pentax is nice but for a working pro , I would not recommend it. Just not there yet
    Because? (BTW, I have always considered myself a professional.)

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Thats for another thread to be honest. For what the OP is doing and where he lives just not sure it is the answer but be happy to talk about it. I'm still not convinced a s2 is either. Simple reasons service , support , repair, software, lenses , accessories , back up to them, overnight replacements. Just a whole slew of stuff people don't even consider. Its not just about taking a image but the whole backend of it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Also how do you guys feel about the current state of glass available for these systems. Any backfocus errors or the like, what are my chances of getting dud in the lens, will I be trying hard to find the best glass for it. What has your experience been with the quality? (Again, this is to elborate on choosing the system here, although I know it might be served on a new thread)
    I've recently read the comparison between Mamiya and Hassy Lenses, where the Hassys were somewhat lower in resolving power. (source: Mamiya website)

    Also let me play devils avocate here. How limited would you guys feel if the Leica S2 were only MF camera available to shoot with?

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    Re: Moving up from 5DM2 to P1-65+

    Oops I think Guy you read my mind again!

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