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Thread: Replacement coming - keep old back?

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    Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Ok chaps, I need some help to decide, from those of you with practical experience. I bought a DM33 as a soft entry to MFD. It was really quite a good deal along with a DF body and 80mm lens. I struggled with a 5x4 for a while but quickly went to a tech cam and decided to go for an IQ. Basically for the price of an IQ180, I can have a 160 and keep the DM33. The DM33 is of stunning quality and a very large sensor area. It really is a great back with lovely tonality. I feel reluctant to give it up, but the trade in is pretty good, I don't think I could get the same second hand. I don't do commercial work, but still a back doesn't take up much room. I worry though that if I don't take the trade in, that I'll find I don't use the back at all and it'll just sit there depreciating away.

    Any suggestions, comments, advice?

    Paul

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    LOL get the IQ 160 sell the DM 33 and buy more glass for the tech cam. I know thats what i would do. But I'm a glass whore.

    Now the IQ 180 is a awesome back no question about it and don't want to deter you from it. Question comes down to do you need it. I'm the logical one here and i don't always need the shiny new toy. Obviously we are all different here but the 160 is killer good and no shame in owning it trust me I love mine. But for the extra money I would want more glass for my tech cam. But thats me.

    Now also for me my clients know i am shooting a 60 mpx back and regardless of what people say it does impress them a ton but they would never see the difference between the 160 and 180 and for that matter even the 140. The question I pose to you is this if your out to impress yourself than get the 180 its amazing but if you want to put that extra money into something that may count more like shooting glass what would serve YOU better. Ultimately its your call and I made the same one with the 140 vs 160 and that difference in money was a lot greater but I wanted full frame this time. Here the 160 vs 180 you will gain a little more DR and a little better color smoothness in the file. The tonal range is longer on the 180 but its not worldly IMHO. The difference in price is a SK 28 or similar. Me i will take the lens.

    The one big reason many went to the 180 was simply this . Current P65+ owners got a sweet upgrade price to the 180 and doing a lateral to the IQ 160 made little sense given the money. For a couple grand more they where simply better off going to the 180 not that many needed it just made sense. Phase twisted there arm with the pricing for them. There where a ton of P65 shooters and why the 180 is selling like hotcakes. Simply good business for Phase. Hats off to them. Don't get me wrong the 180 owners love there backs and for darn good reason it is beautiful and i think it is one hell of a great back.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Personally, I would keep the DM33 and mount it on another body. I like shooting two cameras--one with a wide angle and one with a normal (or one tech and one SLR). You also would have a backup--something some of us think is very important.

    (I will not explain the irony here.)

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    Last edited by Shashin; 5th September 2011 at 08:43.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    hell, just sell the DF body and the lens to me, and keep the DM33 back for yourself!
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    I'd contact one of the more experienced dealers about a price to convert the DM33 into an infrared digital back.

    It would maintain resale value (though be harder to resell as it would then be a specialty market) and compliment rather than duplicate your existing tools.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I'd contact one of the more experienced dealers about a price to convert the DM33 into an infrared digital back.

    It would maintain resale value (though be harder to resell as it would then be a specialty market) and compliment rather than duplicate your existing tools.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    "I'm the logical one here?" What? Has someone hijacked Guy's id?

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    I worry though that if I don't take the trade in, that I'll find I don't use the back at all and it'll just sit there depreciating away.
    I think that says it all. Once you use an IQ180 you won't want to use anything else.... and don't forget that you get 20MP worth of Sensor Plus. I would take the trade in and move forward.

    Victor

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Just throwing a spanner here:-)

    Trade the 33 in for an Aptus-II 12 and use the change for more glass for the tech cam...
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Just throwing a spanner here:-)

    Trade the 33 in for an Aptus-II 12 and use the change for more glass for the tech cam...
    Yup and a great idea
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Or just stick with what you've already got and be happy.........?

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Hey we are enablers. That don't work here. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    I'll swim upstream and say get the IQ-160 and keep the DM-33.

    I find it very helpful having 2x backs at times since you can have one on the DF body and one on the tech camera. It's not a bad idea to have a back up either.

    I decided to do the same thing with my recent upgrades. I traded my P40+ against an IQ160 and kept my Aptus 65 as a spare/second body. I'm not pixel challenged by either back and I have the option to use whichever is most appropriate as my primary back/camera system depending upon the shooting situation.

    If I could have stretched to it I'd have actually even kept the P40+ and traded the Aptus against the IQ160 but you have to cut off the sucking sound from your wallet somewhere!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Hi Paul
    I Would ask myself :
    - What does the DM33 do that the IQ cannot?
    - do I need simultaneous shooting with 2 backs?
    - when things go bad I need an immediate ( more or less)replacement?

    Knowing you I d say 2 backs are overkill especially given the incredible interface of the IQ you probably will not give the DM a second thought.

    You could always decide to get the value added package for an IQreplacement unit within 48 hours if things go bad.
    I had this happen and Phase send me a brand new back within 48 hours ( I opted into value added) since I can't afford 2 IQs and would not want to go back to the old interface . PERIOD
    When I am traveling on assignment I bring a 1Ds3 or 5 D as back up which I still have and can't give up.
    Long story short trade it in and buy either glass or the value added package that will you a peace of mind for the next 5 years if your worried to end up "back- less" for longer stretches of time
    Grischa

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think that says it all. Once you use an IQ180 you won't want to use anything else.... and don't forget that you get 20MP worth of Sensor Plus. I would take the trade in and move forward.

    Victor
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by vjbelle View Post
    I think that says it all. Once you use an IQ180 you won't want to use anything else....
    Until Phase releases the IQ1100...

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    ...but you have to cut off the sucking sound from your wallet somewhere!
    That's just crazy talk...

    Besides, who needs an income when you have credit.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    but you have to cut off the sucking sound from your wallet somewhere!
    Really?! Wish someone had told me that two cameras and a half dozen lenses ago.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Thanks everyone for the considered replies. This has been helpful to me. I am reluctant to let go of gear, but I do feel now, it is not worth keeping the old back, for me. It's easy to look at the numbers and think it's only a small increment relatively speaking. But in absolute terms it's still a decent chunk of cash that could be put to better use, much better use.

    I really do appreciate everyones time!
    Paul

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by rupho View Post
    Long story short trade it in and buy either glass or the value added package that will you a peace of mind for the next 5 years if your worried to end up "back- less" for longer stretches of time
    Btw, I think that this is excellent advice, particularly given the newness of the IQ and the new longer 5 year warranty & loaner service if you're down for any reason. Even though I kept my Aptus I did opt for this option for peace of mind after having had to buy a replacement back before and had one off at Leaf/MAC for several weeks.

    It's not cheap but overall on an IQ160 or 180 it's not unreasonable.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by rupho View Post
    - when things go bad I need an immediate ( more or less)replacement?

    Knowing you I d say 2 backs are overkill especially given the incredible interface of the IQ you probably will not give the DM a second thought.

    You could always decide to get the value added package for an IQreplacement unit within 48 hours if things go bad.
    I had this happen and Phase send me a brand new back within 48 hours ( I opted into value added) since I can't afford 2 IQs and would not want to go back to the old interface . PERIOD...
    Grischa
    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Btw, I think that this is excellent advice, ...
    yes Grischa, Graham, this makes a lot of sense. I'll contact the dealer tomorrow to get the quote for this. It's true it makes more sense than keeping the back, especially given my workflow will change so dramatically between the two units.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Iq 160 value added and still money for a lens. For the hobbyist you really don't need that much in a way of a backup if any. My thoughts
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    In addition to the value added, I hope to have enough spare to get the 110LS for the DF and still be well under the original budget.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Iq 160 value added and still money for a lens. For the hobbyist you really don't need that much in a way of a backup if any. My thoughts
    Hmm, I'm not sure that I totally agree with this statement. I'm sure that where you are coming from is that the digital back isn't critical to your income and ability to work? Well, that may be true but I'd counter that if you're 100% committed to MF digital and have a photography trip either under way or planned then you're equally out of luck if your back goes down. The difference is that you're now basically up a creek without a paddle, figuratively speaking.

    I'll give you a real world example that happened to me last September in the Grand Tetons NP. I spent three weeks based out of Jackson, essentially 900 miles from "home", shooting landscapes with my Alpa & Leaf Aptus. A few days in to the trip I damaged my Aptus and was basically done at that point. Now, as it happened I'd driven there and had the luxury of also bringing along my Nikon d3x and lenses in the SUV - something I couldn't have contemplated if I'd flown due to just the weight & bulk. I was therefore able to keep shooting and enjoy the trip which would have been an expensive washout otherwise.

    Now, as it happened, I had an extremely helpful dealer who offered to overnight me a replacement back with a very reasonable rental option for the remainder of the stay. I didn't need to take that offer up because I had my Nikon system as a backup. Had I not had that luxury and most likely been in the situation I more typically shoot today, I.e. Tech cam & DF system, I would have been totally dependent upon having a medium format back as the core of my system and hence need either fast replacement or a backup.

    Just a real world cautionary tale ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    There you go you want the 110 mm LS.

    I have mixed feelings on the VA to be honest but in the end its not a bad move.

    But I also hate buying insurance as well
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Having a great dealer is probably the most cost-effective back-up plan for normal folk. If you are an event shooter, then on-sight back-up is critical, but it may not need to be a second identical back and body and can maybe be a good DSLR and a few zooms instead...
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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Having a great dealer is probably the most cost-effective back-up plan for normal folk. If you are an event shooter, then on-sight back-up is critical, but it may not need to be a second identical back and body and can maybe be a good DSLR and a few zooms instead...
    Yes having a good dealer is definitely a wise choice, but is not a substitute for the VA warranty which has many other benefits such as (5) years coverage for your IQ series back with overnight swap-out/loaner provision vs (1) year return to manufacturer coverage where you may be without your back for a few weeks while repaired. You also get the ability to take advantage of (1) platform swap ($3500 charge w/o VA warranty) if you choose to change platforms during term of warranty. You also get a copy of Capture One Pro, rolling hard case, extra battery, V-series lens adapter (if you purchase DF kit at same time). The VA warranty is also transferrable which adds to the resell value of your system.

    I have worked with many of the top resellers(and I am currently with Digital Transitions) and although we will go the extra mile for our customers, we strongly recommend the VA because of what I mentioned above.

    Everyones situation is different, but if you are relying on your system and can't afford downtime, then it is worth it.

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    Yes don't get me wrong I don't want to discourage a VA warranty either. Certainly a good thing. Great dealer is the key.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Replacement coming - keep old back?

    I am sorry I did not clarify -- I assume the VA warranty or whatever is similar for other backs and should not assume folks understand that about me. FTR, I even buy the Apple extended warranty for any computer. Might not for an iPad, definitely do not for my iPhone, but higher dollar items almost always
    Jack
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