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Thread: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    If I was forced to criticize something I would say the top display could be a little brighter in bright light, and maybe also the information display inside the viewfinder could be a little brighter and eventually include a little bit more information.
    +1 ... especially the viewfinder info in really bright ambient.

    I wonder if a better eye cup would help that?

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    I guess it comes down to how well Adobe handle Leica files. I can't see it as a high priority item for Adobe.
    Working with Leica is a high priority for Adobe. Every Leica digital camera from the bottom up (V-Lux 30, V-Lux 2, D-Lux 5, M9, M9-P, S2) all come bundled with Adobe software. The D-Lux 5, M9, M9-P and S2 all come with Lightroom. Even for Adobe, I'd imagine that 150,000 or so LR licenses would make Leica a somewhat important client.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Some people still think it is flawed by it's application: For example the way it tethers is slow, or the mirror is too significant, not sure if it has a delay or not and couple of other things I've heard too. Perhaps someone can confirm or deny it here for clarity, since I'm keen on the S2 as well :P

    The OP is looking for a landscape/outdoor camera. Tethering is not going to be a problem.

    I doubt the Hasselblad mirror is better, but the mirror "slap" thing is really overstated and stating to reach myth status. The 645D mirror is really well dampened where I can handhold the body at 1/10s. I am sure Leica has a well dampened mirror.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffg53 View Post
    On the other hand, the S2, despite the best glass, may be crippled by the lack of its own software as in C1 and Phocus.
    I have used C1. I do not feel "crippled" because I process my Pentax images in Photoshop. I would say it is the same with Leica. I think the RAW processor thing is overstated as well.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The OP is looking for a landscape/outdoor camera. Tethering is not going to be a problem.

    I doubt the Hasselblad mirror is better, but the mirror "slap" thing is really overstated and stating to reach myth status. The 645D mirror is really well dampened where I can handhold the body at 1/10s. I am sure Leica has a well dampened mirror.
    Have to agree. Have not seen a real test on any comparison to actual vibration from any of them. Yes some are very quiet but that really means squat in regards to vibration. Just because one maybe quieter does not mean it vibrates less. Most landscape shooters always lock up the mirror anyway. Owning The DF they really have a nice setup with timer and mirror lock up, I think several others do as well. Seriously between these 3 or 4 setups they all will preform very well. The real questions in deciding these is the whole system ands it's parts. From sales,service to finished print and everything in between. Reading some of these threads you really need to to try these out at the end of the day. Not one single person owns all of them at once and you have to put the whole puzzle together to make a informed buying decision. I have shot all of them and there is not one of them I would not enjoy having. Except the Pentax 645 I have not tried but would love too give it a run.

    Also we do have some reviews here to look at to help fill in the puzzle but not one source will always be dead on you need to do your homework and do it well. Lot of money at stake here and you don't want to make a mistake by not having all the facts straight not myth.
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Not sure what "the mirror is too significant" means.

    -Marc
    Sorry, huge typo, or non-typo... I was meant to say mirror slap was too significant.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post

    Except the Pentax 645 I have not tried but would love too give it a run.
    If you have time you should try to get one for testing, Pentax should be able to oblige now that the cameras are readily available. Would be nice to see a warts and all review from someone who has extensive experience with this type of camera.
    With regard to mirror clunk the Hasselblad H4D seem very noisy, far more so than the Pentax.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    I will give you half for that S2 body.

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Certainly a valid concern and one I wish I had given more weight to when I bought my Sinar kit (I'm now a Leica S2 shooter). But unlike Sinar the demand for Leica products appears to be very strong. So much so that it's difficult to find stock. A more valid concern might be whether, if you bought a Leica S2. you would be able to get a full complement of lenses for it.

    With regard to upgrades I think the real question is not whether the company offers trade-ins but how much it cost you to own the camera when you want to sell or replace it. Having paid my dues in this regard on more than one occasion I am very sensitive to this aspect of gear choices. Right now I suspect my Leica gear is worth at least what I paid for it...probably more.

    There are many valid reasons why another system might suit you better but I would suggest that these two shouldn't be determining factors.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Sometimes I wonder if I should not have given the Pentax a try before getting the S2. The problem was that I read to many mixed reports about the lenses.
    I am totally fine with the S2, but allways wonder if I might have been maybe as happy with the Pentax for 1/3 of the money.

    All those MF systems seem to have pos and neg points, but IMO the Pentax really stands out price wise.

    And then I sometimes miss the rendering of the Rollei lenses and the color of the dalsa sensor sensor and the WLF of the Hy6...

    one thing to keep in mind..do you ever might want to use a tech cam? Thats the disadvantage of the integrated cameras.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    I will give you half for that S2 body.
    Thanks for the offer Roger...now I am sure it's gone up in value!!

    And if you plan on walking around with a pair of S2's with different focal lengths attached...I would suggest both a personal trainer and a bodyguard

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Sorry I want to drag this old horse back into the race and by old horse I really mean "thread" and by race, I really mean "discussion" :P

    I've been scouting back and forth, reading a lot of the thread and postings about these different MF systems, and eventually when I am ready, I will pony up for one and before that I hope to test some. However, I still trying to get as much info from you seasoned pros as possible!

    To me, so far, the S2 and H4d are complete (closed) systems, with the S2 being somewhat behind (limited choice of lenses but growing with adapters etc.), simply because it one of the newest additions in MF cameras. This isn't to say the IQ or PhaseOne isn't a complete system, but whenever I hear someone mention an IQ back, that's exactly what I think of, and also feel it's one of the advantages as well. Now, that is because I hear a lot of people using it with their techcams for Landscape or architectural photography.

    For myself, I'm first considering going into MF with closed system, although it may not be completely accurate, but will help this discussion and eventually focus my question at the end. I think in GetDPI, we've already established that different people like different brands and use different systems because of their shooting preferences etc. However, I am hearing less and less about PhaseOne with their 645DF/AF camera and how well it performs within it's own system. So rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd expand my question here. I know four new Schneider Kreuznach lenses have been announced, so I guess not so much testing as of yet, but how about the camera?

    Hasselblad has Truefocus, S2 and its crosshair AF and SLR handling, but how is the PhaseOne today and more specifically the 645DF, and are you IQ back photogs simply skipping up on this because of how good the backs are and how you simple want to or prefer to use them on ALPAs and CAMBOs (Okay, ARCA SWISS...okok, I don't want a long list now).

    I just want a clear idea where we are today, because I find myself heavily going siding for the S2 or H4D. Although clearly (my 'feelings' only) the IQ backs (Again I'm thinking back only) is equally as strong if not better for image resolution as far as choice and dynamic range and very importantly it has the best LCD screen! The only reason I am not siding with PhaseOne although I can point out its strengths, because I feel the 645DF/AF is dated and as a whole doesn't live up to its IQ backs or S2 or H4D in handling. Am I wrong and how far off am I?

    Sorry to make you guys sound like broken records, a lot of older comments are simply that, and I know you guys have grown with systems through usage and the manufacturers are making updates, both firmware and hardware!

    Thanks
    Po

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Honestly if you are heavily siding towards the S2 or H4D, I simply would not leave out the Pentax 645D, it has a lot going for it and not just the price. It is at least worth trying out, nothing to lose and perhaps a lot to gain. I too am a M9 user so I know a lot about Leica glass, and now I'm learning about Pentax glass.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by delander View Post
    Honestly if you are heavily siding towards the S2 or H4D, I simply would not leave out the Pentax 645D, it has a lot going for it and not just the price. It is at least worth trying out, nothing to lose and perhaps a lot to gain. I too am a M9 user so I know a lot about Leica glass, and now I'm learning about Pentax glass.

    Jeff
    Jeff,

    I assume you have the M9 and 645D. How are you finding the file differences? Cheers...

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Most definitely, but on top of your photographic gear, who is to assume that you DON'T already have one
    Those days are looooong gone my friend. I've owned three Porches, and as they say, three's a charm.

    Now it's a cavernous Volvo SUV to carry all my lighting and camera gear to locations ... not to mention my wife's steamer trunks full of clothes and accessories for her and her Chihuahua

    Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Jeff,

    I assume you have the M9 and 645D. How are you finding the file differences? Cheers...
    Leaving aside the size, they are quite similar, but the Pentax has more DR and the high iso performance seems better. Of course they both have Kodak sensors and no AA filter. I'm surprised how easy the Pentax is to use handheld. It is a heavy (in comparison to an M9 not when compared to a Hasselblad) camera and has a large (but well damped) mirror). The shutter button is very smooth and even using the 75mm lens, which is of the older mechanical drive type focusing, it is quick enough to focus and then continue to take the photograph in one smooth action.

    I only have two lenses at the moment the 75 just mentioned and the new 55mm both seem sharp to me, for landscape I tend to use them at around F8. I have used both a Leica S2 and a Hassy H4D50. I think I prefer the handling of the Pentax over the Leica. Both the screens on the Pentax are a revelation in clarity.

    But I'm no 'camera/lens tester' I gave that up long ago because of the impossibility of controlling all the variables.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Thanks for the detailed response Jeff. I found the S2 files vs M9 to be in the same boat, better DR, and better resolution, but the difference didnt really knock my socks off. The M9, for its size/convenience is a great piece of kit. Having said this, WB and colour ooc on the S2 was in a different league. I am going to try out the Aptus 12 and IQ tomorrow. Now just need to figure out if I'm going to break the news to the wife over dinner or jewellery

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Sorry I want to drag this old horse back into the race and by old horse I really mean "thread" and by race, I really mean "discussion" :P

    I've been scouting back and forth, reading a lot of the thread and postings about these different MF systems, and eventually when I am ready, I will pony up for one and before that I hope to test some. However, I still trying to get as much info from you seasoned pros as possible!

    To me, so far, the S2 and H4d are complete (closed) systems, with the S2 being somewhat behind (limited choice of lenses but growing with adapters etc.), simply because it one of the newest additions in MF cameras. This isn't to say the IQ or PhaseOne isn't a complete system, but whenever I hear someone mention an IQ back, that's exactly what I think of, and also feel it's one of the advantages as well. Now, that is because I hear a lot of people using it with their techcams for Landscape or architectural photography.

    For myself, I'm first considering going into MF with closed system, although it may not be completely accurate, but will help this discussion and eventually focus my question at the end. I think in GetDPI, we've already established that different people like different brands and use different systems because of their shooting preferences etc. However, I am hearing less and less about PhaseOne with their 645DF/AF camera and how well it performs within it's own system. So rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd expand my question here. I know four new Schneider Kreuznach lenses have been announced, so I guess not so much testing as of yet, but how about the camera?

    Hasselblad has Truefocus, S2 and its crosshair AF and SLR handling, but how is the PhaseOne today and more specifically the 645DF, and are you IQ back photogs simply skipping up on this because of how good the backs are and how you simple want to or prefer to use them on ALPAs and CAMBOs (Okay, ARCA SWISS...okok, I don't want a long list now).

    I just want a clear idea where we are today, because I find myself heavily going siding for the S2 or H4D. Although clearly (my 'feelings' only) the IQ backs (Again I'm thinking back only) is equally as strong if not better for image resolution as far as choice and dynamic range and very importantly it has the best LCD screen! The only reason I am not siding with PhaseOne although I can point out its strengths, because I feel the 645DF/AF is dated and as a whole doesn't live up to its IQ backs or S2 or H4D in handling. Am I wrong and how far off am I?

    Sorry to make you guys sound like broken records, a lot of older comments are simply that, and I know you guys have grown with systems through usage and the manufacturers are making updates, both firmware and hardware!

    Thanks
    Po
    Seriously Po, you have to carefully define your personal applications ...current or projected. All of these systems are competent to some degree, wether $10K or $25K, and owners of each system will tout their own choices based on all sorts of personal criteria ... which may or may not be the same as yours.

    The other important aspect is understanding the ramifications of moving from a 35mm DSLR kit to MFD ... some of which don't reveal themselves until you live with the system for some time.
    There are lot of MFD detractors in the 35mm DSLR ranks who "tried and died" because they never could tell the difference in the first place, or couldn't master the gear's potential. The eye of the beholder, and all that.

    My personal criteria immediately rules out the Pentax, but it may not for you. Others have criteria that crosses off the S2, and would eliminate it even if it was 1/2 the price it is. I ruled out Phase One because I wanted ALL of my lenses to be Leaf Shutter ... (this commitment to the H system was well before Phase begin their relationship with Schneider ... however, my criteria still stands.)

    How a camera handles depends on who's hands it is in. I did not take to the Mamiya 645, but others find it just fine. The S2 fits my hands and the ergonomics are superb, but Guy Mancusio found it difficult to hold in his hands. It is all very personal and requires actual direct handling.

    If you are after absolute, undeniable IQ that is pretty future proof no matter what the 35mm DSLR companies bring out ... then consider skipping the crop frame 40 meg cameras altogether and jump to 60meg FF 645 from Hasselblad, Leaf or Phase One ... or 80 meg from Leaf or Phase One. I wouldn't worry to much about the Phase One camera ... they already have said it is being redesigned, so it is just a matter of time. Being totally modular, one would hope you could just get the new body, and keep the current one as a back-up.

    However, keep in mind that ... with greater resolution comes greater responsibility to learn how to realize that resolution ... patience Grasshopper, patience.

    The only 40ish meg camera I would consider today based on my personal "People Shooting" criteria is the Leica S2 ... not just for the beautiful camera (which I think is typically over-priced), but for the lenses which have already become my favorite MFD optics ever. However, for roughly the same cash, you can get a higher resolution solution.

    My 2 regarding 4,000,000 solutions

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    My personal criteria immediately rules out the Pentax, but it may not for you.

    -Marc

    Hi Marc,
    Does this mean, absence of LS lenses, no tethering, (except eye-fi?) quality of Pentax lenses, no separate DB or other features? I'm working on the assumption that the OP is interested in a camera for landscape. It is true however that I am new to MFD so I accept that my views could be biased. Even saying that the Pentax seems such a great camera, for the price.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Agree with Marc here but need to remember the parts that really count are the glass and the sensor. The body is really just a connection between the two. You buy a system some parts maybe great and some are workable. BTW as one of the owners I could spout off why I like Phase but than I would be tagged bias and the reality is I am not but I don't do that and many owners don't always get into that stuff either on all sides of the fence. This is not a canon/Nikon type war here. We just don't do that here at GetDPI. MF owners here are very smart with lots of experience but we all know very well these are all great systems. Not one of them is a clear winner over the other and that's a good thing.
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    I'm detecting a minor reprimand here. I just feel that Phaseone and Hasseblad and their associated companies and Leica are getting a great deal of coverage here and the new digital boy, the Pentax is not.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    I don't think that at all. The issue really at hand is exactly what you just said the new boy and it's lack of being in the MF market with history and sales,service, repair, parts behind it as compared to the established systems. I said this a bunch of times on the S2 when it came out. It simply needs to mature, it's the same with Pentax. It's new it needs to grow both as a system and with MF shooters. It's got a great start but for many Pros it's missing some things and it needs to grow. There is nothing sinister in that at all. I will not buy it just like I will not buy it until I'm comfortable with it's growth. That's me and others have different criteria as well. Honestly for a lot of people it just comes down to getting to be a mature system , more new lenses made and so on and so forth. But I will say it has a great start and the more folks buy it the more it will get established in the market. For many the price is not a criteria at all and I think many folks think that price alone will get it's foot in the door. Wrong that is not the case but the growth is. For
    Pros these are write off items and cost yes has bearing but more important buying a established system with everything behind it in place simply is more important for many. I say this as a general comment as some Pros have bought in which is great but there criteria maybe different than others.
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by delander View Post
    I'm detecting a minor reprimand here. I just feel that Phaseone and Hasseblad and their associated companies and Leica are getting a great deal of coverage here and the new digital boy, the Pentax is not.

    Jeff
    I guess it depends probably on how many users are present here.

    Also when Pentax came out with the D645 most useres here had allready a MF camera and therefore would not switch systems.

    Personally I was close to buy one but at this time (I even allready bought a used 75mm lens which I still have-any body interested in a used 75mm Pentax 645 AF lens) there were mixed reports out there about lenses. Plus I had the chance to play for a couple of days with a S2 which just made me want the S2.

    Now one year later there are more guys who seem quite happy with the 645d and the lenses and who knows how I would decide today.
    One doubt regarding Pentax would be my experience with 2 K5 bodies-where I did not get the AF accurancy I hoped for. I think the 645D is supposed to have the same AF (however the AF points are smaller in relation to the sensor-so it might behave different).

    The images I saw in the Pentax 645 thread are beautiful, it is besides the S2 the only weather sealer MF camera, and it is the only one with multiple AF points.

  23. #73
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Guy, when the Leica S2 came out you gave that an impressive review, what about doing the same for the Pentax, if they will lend you one of course.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Jeff I would love to do a review on it. It's a great start for many in the MF market especially those coming from 35mm or maybe better said stealing from that market. Which is wonderful for the MF world. I see it as a very important product in our industry and somewhat a game changer. Look at the S2 today it's changed it got better , new firmware more lenses and so on. Let's hope Pentax stays with it and makes it grow. Honestly I love my Phase gear but this is good for the industry which I dearly care about more. We need innovative products for our future growth. Just that simple. I have enjoyed being in digital since the very beginning, I can't even describe how much it has grown from than. I never dreamed of 80mpx backs. And who would have thought of a 10k MF system years ago. Awesome stuff
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by delander View Post
    Honestly if you are heavily siding towards the S2 or H4D, I simply would not leave out the Pentax 645D, it has a lot going for it and not just the price. It is at least worth trying out, nothing to lose and perhaps a lot to gain. I too am a M9 user so I know a lot about Leica glass, and now I'm learning about Pentax glass.

    Jeff
    As shallow as this sounds, I simply do not like the look of it. The costs of going into MF feels no different than buying a car as far as pricing is concerned, with a lot less choice (That's another story!)

    It's not the only reason, but it's the main reason

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Thanks for the detailed response Jeff. I found the S2 files vs M9 to be in the same boat, better DR, and better resolution, but the difference didnt really knock my socks off. The M9, for its size/convenience is a great piece of kit. Having said this, WB and colour ooc on the S2 was in a different league. I am going to try out the Aptus 12 and IQ tomorrow. Now just need to figure out if I'm going to break the news to the wife over dinner or jewellery
    Both ... trust me on this.

    However, when I told my wife I wanted to get a $2P and all four lense$, I was wearing a football helmet and a sports cup, removed all immediate objects that could be used as a weapon. To my shocked suprize, she just replied that I "had worked hard all my life and deserved it." I'd marry this gal all over again

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Both ... trust me on this.

    However, when I told my wife I wanted to get a $2P and all four lense$, I was wearing a football helmet and a sports cup, removed all immediate objects that could be used as a weapon. To my shocked suprize, she just replied that I "had worked hard all my life and deserved it." I'd marry this gal all over again

    -Marc
    Lying bastard than she hit you over the head.

    Love ya bud. I could not resist. BTW I'm on my second helmet
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    As shallow as this sounds, I simply do not like the look of it. The costs of going into MF feels no different than buying a car as far as pricing is concerned, with a lot less choice (That's another story!)

    It's not the only reason, but it's the main reason
    Seriously looks and feel are a factor in buying and nothing wrong with that. Like golf clubs if you hate the looks of it staring down at it most likely you won't play good. Your spending a lot of money and you want it to look nice to your eye.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Both ... trust me on this.

    However, when I told my wife I wanted to get a $2P and all four lense$, I was wearing a football helmet and a sports cup, removed all immediate objects that could be used as a weapon. To my shocked suprize, she just replied that I "had worked hard all my life and deserved it." I'd marry this gal all over again

    -Marc
    Your wife is now driving the Porsche in exchange isn't she? Isn't she, Marc? :P

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by delander View Post
    Hi Marc,
    Does this mean, absence of LS lenses, no tethering, (except eye-fi?) quality of Pentax lenses, no separate DB or other features? I'm working on the assumption that the OP is interested in a camera for landscape. It is true however that I am new to MFD so I accept that my views could be biased. Even saying that the Pentax seems such a great camera, for the price.

    Jeff
    Jeff, I don't think those who bought into the Pentax system have to feel the need to justify anything. It's a great piece of kit for a relatively reasonable price. It needs to mature, and time will tell if it does. However, for some folks it is fine as it is.

    I waited well over a year after first testing the S2 before considering it again. It simply wasn't ready for prime time use for my needs and applications. In that time, and since then, it has continued to develop and get better and better. Hopefully that will continue ... and Leica's service and continued updates leads me to believe it will.

    Just remember, many MFD users here have been in it for a very long time and have built their systems to meet a lot of their diverse needs.

    Best of luck!

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Seriously looks and feel are a factor in buying and nothing wrong with that. Like golf clubs if you hate the looks of it staring down at it most likely you won't play good. Your spending a lot of money and you want it to look nice to your eye.
    It does Guy! In fact, some people have told me about the image MF cameras give the perception of to the clients about how serious the photog is or to separate themselves from others shooting 35mm (nothing wrong with that either). How well we dance in our dance shoes clearly defines us.

    In the true-er sense, what I foresee myself shooting isn't all that clear yet, I learnt this in my current profession, and it's somewhat fruitful to me, I'm just not in love with it. If you ask me what I want to be shooting it's as wide as it is varied. In my dreams I would answer commercial fashion photography and Landscapes. Clearly different enough and Oh sure I may end up with more MF cameras, just like I have FF 34mm. My question is about what to go for first and what makes sense, seriously I love the size and look of the S2, it's sexy!
    The H4D is a Bentley to me. It's bigger and comes with other lush accessories. I can't as of yet define for myself what the IQ backs are yet, because I cannot connect it to it's camera. I feel it's the seductress who has many others and goes behind your back! :P Thus I cannot gauge it clearly yet, and was asking for your help here.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The OP is looking for a landscape/outdoor camera. Tethering is not going to be a problem.

    I doubt the Hasselblad mirror is better, but the mirror "slap" thing is really overstated and stating to reach myth status. The 645D mirror is really well dampened where I can handhold the body at 1/10s. I am sure Leica has a well dampened mirror.
    Most MFDSLR, cameras have substantial slap, it quite pronounced really. Think of Newton's 3rd law of motion regarding action and reaction. With the bigger sensor, this makes it more of an issue. Cameras like the H4D, are actually quite good at hand held, because of the center of gravity. In regards to the S2, The files were a little too punchy, but takes post production very nicely. I did prefer the aspect ratio of the H4D, why crop juicy pixels.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    It does Guy! In fact, some people have told me about the image MF cameras give the perception of to the clients about how serious the photog is or to separate themselves from others shooting 35mm (nothing wrong with that either). How well we dance in our dance shoes clearly defines us.

    In the true-er sense, what I foresee myself shooting isn't all that clear yet, I learnt this in my current profession, and it's somewhat fruitful to me, I'm just not in love with it. If you ask me what I want to be shooting it's as wide as it is varied. In my dreams I would answer commercial fashion photography and Landscapes. Clearly different enough and Oh sure I may end up with more MF cameras, just like I have FF 34mm. My question is about what to go for first and what makes sense, seriously I love the size and look of the S2, it's sexy!
    The H4D is a Bentley to me. It's bigger and comes with other lush accessories. I can't as of yet define for myself what the IQ backs are yet, because I cannot connect it to it's camera. I feel it's the seductress who has many others and goes behind your back! :P Thus I cannot gauge it clearly yet, and was asking for your help here.
    You really need to get this stuff in your hands, you may love something or may hate it. You need a dealer to help let me know.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You really need to get this stuff in your hands, you may love something or may hate it. You need a dealer to help let me know.
    I totally agree here.
    I think you will feel quickly what works for you and what doesnt.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Most MFDSLR, cameras have substantial slap, it quite pronounced really. Think of Newton's 3rd law of motion regarding action and reaction.
    I guess that is the advantage of the Pentax 645D--mirror is light and it does not use a simple hinge. I didn't realize the other cameras were so bad.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    On that note I guess i will sell my DF immediately.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  37. #87
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Well the Pentax may not be the most beautiful looking camera in the world, its body shape is directly descended from their previous film cameras. But in essence it is the same shape as the Hasselblad, without the modular build and aerodynamics. And in the hand it just works. I'm not a pro photographer, just an experienced and still enthusiastic amateur. There was an interesting comparison over on LULA a while ago.

    Jeff

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    It needs to mature, and time will tell if it does.
    It is not like Pentax has never made medium-format cameras. There are 14 lenses available for it--wide, teles, macro, and zooms. 67 lenses can be used with it. There are interchangeable focusing screens and angle finders and viewfinder magnifiers, extension tubes, teleconveters, dedicated flash units, a GPS, and even memory cards. This is more "mature" than say the Phase/Mamiya RZ.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    One thing I find curious, no one has chimed in on the IQ140...


    Do I hear a bong?

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    How much you want me to brag about that sensor. LOL

    I owned the P40+ which is the same sensor , its awesome but no one believes me. LOL

    Frankly the IQ series is the best back you can flat out buy. There I said it. Now waiting for my handcuffs to send me to the crazy house. I own the IQ 160 and I have absolutely not even a glimmer of being dissatisfied and NO I don't make a nickel saying it. And i love the glass, software and my images are kick ***. See I can't go around saying this or i will get shot in the back at 40 paces and no one believes me anyway. See I can't win even on my own forum. ROTFLMAO

    Hope you all realize i am kidding around here but the IQ 140 is a very very good back or I would have never bought the same sensor twice. I just bought the FF size this time.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Guy, do you have a live view with that back and how does it work in the field?

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Actually I do have live view on the IQ 160 yes. Works good I would not call it stellar but it does work very nice inside for sure on a tripod. One thing I noticed outside was i had moving cars going through the frame so it never settled down. Now the real question is do I use it often not outside but inside I do sometimes. One nice thing is you can focus at 100 percent and that was pretty cool but it does like batteries. For me maybe the least used feature but focus mask, 100 percent zoom are my most used features not to mention the ball for leveling. I use a tech cam like a polaroid by 3 shots I got a final. I use no rangefinder and no laser either. I also have not missed yet either. Now i have only got as long as a 43mm too. But I seem to be doing very well with it and quick. I have not hit that slow wall using it. This makes my day as i am not a slow pace shooter. The quality is amazing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    its funny here how to say "my back is the best" without saying it directly

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    its funny here how to say "my back is the best" without saying it directly
    Don't encourage him :P

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Agree Tom. LOL it is a crack up. As a owner here i can't get that far out there and hopefully everyone realizes i was joking around otherwise Jack would be plugging me full of holes. LOL

    I'm all about the format and that is what counts end of day. I would take anyone of these system gladly.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Guy, so I might as well ask it here now: I'm in the US, San Francisco to be exact, so does it matter where my dealer is here in the US?
    I'm sure you can add to the importance of a dealer in your answer you see fit!

    Also, I see now Hasselblad now has their own online store, what are the pros and cons shopping direct and dealer?
    I'm sure most of us are supporters of private/family businesses, that's a given! You can PM, unless you think it's info others can benefit from too.
    Last edited by pophoto; 20th September 2011 at 23:15.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Agree Tom. LOL it is a crack up. As a owner here i can't get that far out there and hopefully everyone realizes i was joking around otherwise Jack would be plugging me full of holes. LOL

    I'm all about the format and that is what counts end of day. I would take anyone of these system gladly.
    I would also take all of them but prefer the S2
    I could take an IQ-back for my Artec, and I would also like to sometimes use some Rollei glass - so a Hy6 or AFI would be usefull as well.
    What for those days when we want multiple AF points? We need a Pentax, and then for the days with strobes and true-focus ...Hassy. What else did I forget?

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    In the US, the best dealer is the good one who is a short drive away, in another state! Do not underestimate how much sales tax can be on a 10-40,000 dollar purchase!

    In any case, I went through these rounds myself, and chose an S2. I bet I would have been happy with a Pentax as well, but I preferred the handling of the S2, as well as the fact that it integrates perfectly with my M9, which is my current primary camera. There is a large benefit in having a single workflow! I only use Lightroom for RAW conversion, and the M9 and S2 files share a family look that makes it easy to deal with them and get the most out of them. I am also on the professional service at Leica already and have contacts there, which means that I am very confident about service and support. I am used to the general "brand ergonomics", so I don't need to learn a new tactile language to be at ease with the camera. All these things are worth considering when getting into a new system...it is certainly not as simple as saying that TODAY (because things change quickly) Brand X has a ___ Megapixel sensor with Awesome View and Super Bokeh Vision™, while Brand Y's camera is only ___-1 Megapixels, no Awesome View and only Great Bokeh Vision™. Ok, maybe that was not so simple, but the point is that sheer technical features alone are not the only thing to consider, though they are certainly among the most important!

    P.S. Super Bokeh Vision™ is pretty awesome...
    P.P.S. Freud would have a field day with some of the sensual descriptions of cameras in this thread...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I would also take all of them but prefer the S2
    I could take an IQ-back for my Artec, and I would also like to sometimes use some Rollei glass - so a Hy6 or AFI would be usefull as well.
    What for those days when we want multiple AF points? We need a Pentax, and then for the days with strobes and true-focus ...Hassy. What else did I forget?
    This forum is like a friendly neighborhood bar located right next to a AA meeting location.

    We don't need more gear sluts here, we need a couple of shrinks ... no wait, they probably have two S2s, an IQ, a Leaf 54, a H4D/200MS and sixty seven Pentax 645Ds ... one for each lens mention above.

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    Guy, so I might as well ask it here now: I'm in the US, San Francisco to be exact, so does it matter where my dealer is here in the US?
    I'm sure you can add to the importance of a dealer in your answer you see fit!

    Also, I see now Hasselblad now has their own online store, what are the pros and cons shopping direct and dealer?
    I'm sure most of us are supporters of private/family businesses, that's a given! You can PM, unless you think it's info others can benefit from too.
    Probably doesn't matter ... the dealer is the interface with the company, and they are as close as the closest phone. I NEVER deal directly with the camera company if I can help it, I leave that to the dealer. My S2 dealer is in NJ, and my Hassey rep is here in Michigan ...

    Buying direct from Hasselblad is probably set up to handle accessories more than systems ... I'd bet an on-line system purchase is attributed to the dealer in your region who does the follow through.

    While I needed a walk through for the H when I first got it, it wasn't really needed for the S2 since it is very similar to any 35mm DSLR only bigger/better.

    -Marc

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