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Thread: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

  1. #101
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Hasselblad (in Denmark) will not deal with end-users at all, something I found to my dismay in trying to sort out X5 problems, which took nearly a year. You can only deal with their agents in the country you are in...fine if you are in the US, bad news if you are in a small country that does not have as much depth of experience in these highly specialized items. It was one of the biggest reasons why I ruled them out entirely for any digital back purchase (and to be honest, pretty much any major purchase).
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    This forum is like a friendly neighborhood bar located right next to a AA meeting location.
    -Marc
    Perfect analogy Marc...and everyone in the AA meeting is looking at their watches to see when the meeting is over so they can go next door

  3. #103
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Perfect analogy Marc...and everyone in the AA meeting is looking at their watches to see when the meeting is over so they can go next door
    Ha,
    I agree but I still have hope that one day I will be healed.
    One good reason besides money would be that the more gear one owns and the more often one exchanges the worse one can learn and optimized the gear and workflow one has.

    By the way the advantage I have experienced with the S2 is that there is quite an overlap with digital 35mm SLRs so I really havent felt much need for my Nikon gear and therefore will reduce or maybe totally sell the DSLR stuff. (of course this would be different if I was a sports photographer).

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    You can only deal with their agents in the country you are in...fine if you are in the US, bad news if you are in a small country that does not have as much depth of experience in these highly specialized items.
    Stuart, I think that, in some ways, I get better service in Australia than I would in the US. It works very well with easy access to the people who support the products. As a long term user, it suits my needs well.
    Cheers,
    Jeff
    www.jeff-grant.com

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Try living on a small island in the south Pacific! Called the Linhof service and sales centre the other day and they couldn't remember if they sold Linhof products or not. Someone had to call me back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Hasselblad (in Denmark) will not deal with end-users at all, something I found to my dismay in trying to sort out X5 problems, which took nearly a year. You can only deal with their agents in the country you are in...fine if you are in the US, bad news if you are in a small country that does not have as much depth of experience in these highly specialized items. It was one of the biggest reasons why I ruled them out entirely for any digital back purchase (and to be honest, pretty much any major purchase).

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Exactly. You are in NZ, right? There are only 300,000 people in Iceland, and I believe I have the only X5. There are a handful more Imacon and Hasselblad scanners. The number of medium format digital cameras can probably counted on one or two hands. In my situation, relying on a "national distributor" means relying on what amounts to a small (albeit very good!) local camera store. In dealing with the X5, after months of trying to get the local dealer to acknowledge a problem, they eventually just told me to deal with sending in the scanner for repair myself. This was for a product that retails for 20,000 USD that I bought brand new from them, less than a year before. Even then, Hasselblad in Denmark would not communicate with me and would not send the scanner back to me, only the dealer. This is after the dealer themselves asked me to take care of it! Some service... I have had great service from Hasselblad USA, but as I said, Hasselblad's policy of not dealing with customers directly under any circumstances prevented me from considering them in buying a digital back. I am not trying to derail the thread with this, it was only my intention to indicate that the buying criteria for these systems goes way way beyond features alone, and you need to make certain you know what you are getting into.
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    ...the buying criteria for these systems goes way way beyond features alone, and you need to make certain you know what you are getting into.
    Indeed…
    I made it clear to the reps in my country that I was very interested in the S2 on several different occasions (in personal conversations during conventions in 2009 and 2010, after that in 2011 2x by telephone and 3x by e-mail) Still waiting for a response…
    I gave up in may this year.
    I figured if it takes so much effort when I want buy into the system, what'll I have to do to get their attention if I need them to help me out when the camera/lenses need service?
    I decided to wait and see what Photokina '12 brings, either an S3 I can't resist or a Sony FF that will suit my needs with a system I already own and work with.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Usually this policy of dealing through the rep works perfectly ... if the rep knows what they are doing. I've rarely had to deal with Hasselblad directly, my local rep did it all. He knew who to call for questions he couldn't immediately answer. He came and set up my 949, and returned later to perform routine maintenance. When I had focus issues with a 120 Schneider macro on Rollei Xact2 using a 'blad back, he came and used Phocus with audio feedback to shim the lens to perfection.

    My Leica S2 experience has been similar. Stellar after sale service. Oddly, they keep trying to deal with me directly for any issue, but my Leica dealer insists on being the contact point, and has taken Leica to task for contacting me directly. He simply goes directly to the top if there is an unresolved issue.

    So, I prefer the dealer do all the leg work, I don't have the time to weave my way through the maze of contact points and internal horse crap.

    Glad I don't live where you do Stuart, They shouldn't be so rigid with their policy for smaller areas ... or don't sell their damned stuff there.

    - Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Well, there are some fringe benefits to being here! For example, I found this about a 20 minutes drive out of town on Wednesday:


    I don't mean to give the dealer a bad rap either. They are very nice people, they just don't have the breadth of experience that they might in a larger market, combined with not really having the typical American attitude of the customer always being right. That's just a cultural issue. But anyway, for me it meant finding a company where I could build up a direct relationship. So I bought the S2 from my long-time dealer in the US (who is my first point of contact if there is a problem), but if there needs to be any service, I know I can talk directly to Leica and get things solved quickly.
    For the X5, I have been learning how to use the debugging software that is hidden in FlexColor to diagnose any problems myself (such as using the monitor window to see any dust problems etc). Hasselblad USA has also been very responsive to questions sent to their tech support team.

    As for the original question of the thread, however, I think you really need to balance all the factors -- the relationship with the manufacturer and dealer, the blend of features, the ergonomics, workflow, the flexibility of the system and the cost. That particular equation is going to be different for everyone, and really requires you to know what you are doing. If you cannot solve that equation for yourself, you are probably not ready for one of these cameras, even if you have the money to set down for one!
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    ...combined with not really having the typical American attitude of the customer always being right...
    You have obviously never dealt with HP Marketing and a host of NYC and NJ places.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Stuart is a Brooklyn boy, so he has

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Well, there are some fringe benefits to being here! For example, I found this about a 20 minutes drive out of town on Wednesday:
    Where are the people? I can't see the people. Need to shoot people.

    I prefer to shoot the human landscape ... like this I found 20 minutes from my house.

    -Marc

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    As for the original question of the thread, however, I think you really need to balance all the factors -- the relationship with the manufacturer and dealer, the blend of features, the ergonomics, workflow, the flexibility of the system and the cost. That particular equation is going to be different for everyone, and really requires you to know what you are doing. If you cannot solve that equation for yourself, you are probably not ready for one of these cameras, even if you have the money to set down for one!
    Excellent.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Thanks Jono! It's always nice when people agree with you...especially dealers. And yes, I am used to the Brooklyn and NYC dealers, which is why I bought mine from a dealer in California! (Just kidding...there are some great dealers in NYC.)
    Marc -- there are some sheep in that photo, but sometimes the people find their way in...

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Beautiful landscapes Stuart.

    As an aside - the whole issue of scale is interesting when it comes to landscape photography - at least for me. I 'need' some reference point as to how big this scene is to understand an image better - so it was interesting to see you point out a spec of dust above as a person!

    I guess the print large size is important for landscape presentation s well - sa teh viewer in a gallery being provided with a more realistic perspective ( courtesy of the size of teh print) can better guage 'scale'.

    So there are good reasons (all jokes aside) for 'elephant guns' - when shooting large scenes and wishing to have (at least) the option of printing large.

    I am jealous of your easy at hand landscape access Stuart - but not jealous at all of the weather conditions you must live in fo rtoo much of the year - middle aged bones.

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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Thank you very much Peter. I agree with you, scale is very important in landscapes, especially in ones such as Iceland, which are not otherwise relatable. There are no trees for example to let you know how big things are. So I also try to put relatable things or people into the landscape if I can. It was one of the themes of a small exhibition I did during the summer. That second photo was part of that show...the other two are here:





    As for the weather here, it suits me well! I cannot stand the heat in summer...I will take 10C over 30C any day of the week...I can always put on more layers, but there is a point at which decency prevents me to removing another...
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    Re: leica S2 vs. hasselblad H4D-40 vs. IQ140

    Don't forget the Leaf.
    Mamiya 645 df Aptus 8 Kit - $17,500

    Don't understand why the Leaf doesnt get mentioned more often. It's a great solution.

    Craig it was great seeing you on Saturday and thanks for bringing the prints. Also thanks for starting this thread.

    Lee


    Quote Originally Posted by pipzz View Post
    Leica S2 kit - $29k
    Phase IQ140 kit - $26k
    H4D-40 kit - $20k

    What's your budget? Ones you answer it to yourself, you'll find the right kit.

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