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LCC with Capture One Questions

timwier

Member
A few quick questions on using a LCC. I have a Cambo WRS and use a variety of Digital and Rodie lenses.

Does it make any difference if you use the shinny or matte side?

When using a polarizer filter, should you keep the polarizer on or remove it before taking the LCC reading?

When using a graduated Neutral Density filter, I am assuming you remove it before taking the LCC reading?

In Capture One in the lens correction tool, what is the "analyze (technical wideangle) dropdown for?

Thanks,

Tim
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Does it make any difference if you use the shinny or matte side?
The matte side is meant to face towards the digital back. It is meant to reduce the chance of reflection of the lens itself in the LCC panel. I've only seen it make a difference in real life once. Generally speaking you can simply not worry about it.

When using a polarizer filter, should you keep the polarizer on or remove it before taking the LCC reading?
I don't have enough hands-on experience to fully/confidently answer question. However, my strong inclination is to capture the LCC with the polarizer in place.

When using a graduated Neutral Density filter, I am assuming you remove it before taking the LCC reading?
Definitely remove the grad. ND filter prior to capturing the LCC. Otherwise the LCC will fight against the very effect the ND filter is being used for.

In Capture One in the lens correction tool, what is the "analyze (technical wideangle) dropdown for?
The Schneider wide angles which seat the rear lens element extremely very close to the sensor can generate a ripple effect when combined with digital backs with very small pixel sizes. Generally speaking this means the 24XL, 28XL, 35XL, 43XL, and 47XL when used with the IQ140/160/180 P40/65+, Mamiya DM40/56/80, and Leaf Aptus II 8/10/12. The widest lenses (24/28/35) and the smallest pixel sizes (DM80, IQ180, Aptus II 12) are the most extreme examples.

The "wide angle" drop down option is specific to those combinations and will lead to better results and allow using parts of the image circle which would otherwise not be acceptable with a traditional LCC.

When in doubt select "wide angle" as I've not seen any negative effects when using it on images that don't neccessarily need it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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yatlee

Member
LCC = Lens Cast Correction which used to correct color cast on lens shift or light fall off on wide angle lens.
 

rupho

New member
You mentioned " definitely Remote the grad before applying the LCC. But how about the Centre Filter which technically is a grad Filter . I Would assume it should be used in conjunction with the LCC so not so much work is needed to correct fall off once the CF is used.
I tested it recently please see post # 5 here:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29887
Thanks
Grischa

The matte side is meant to face towards the digital back. It is meant to reduce the chance of reflection of the lens itself in the LCC panel. I've only seen it make a difference in real life once. Generally speaking you can simply not worry about it.



I don't have enough hands-on experience to fully/confidently answer question. However, my strong inclination is to capture the LCC with the polarizer in place.



Definitely remove the grad. ND filter prior to capturing the LCC. Otherwise the LCC will fight against the very effect the ND filter is being used for.



The Schneider wide angles which seat the rear lens element extremely very close to the sensor can generate a ripple effect when combined with digital backs with very small pixel sizes. Generally speaking this means the 24XL, 28XL, 35XL, 43XL, and 47XL when used with the IQ140/160/180 P40/65+, Mamiya DM40/56/80, and Leaf Aptus II 8/10/12. The widest lenses (24/28/35) and the smallest pixel sizes (DM80, IQ180, Aptus II 12) are the most extreme examples.

The "wide angle" drop down option is specific to those combinations and will lead to better results and allow using parts of the image circle which would otherwise not be acceptable with a traditional LCC.

When in doubt select "wide angle" as I've not seen any negative effects when using it on images that don't neccessarily need it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

Masters Series Workshop:
New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
You mentioned "definitely Remote the grad before applying the LCC". But how about the Centre Filter which technically is a grad Filter . I Would assume it should be used in conjunction with the LCC so not so much work is needed to correct fall off once the CF is used.
Yes, sorry for not being clear. You are absolutely right that technically a CF is a graduated filter (specifically a radially graduated density filter). My comments were specific to the top-to-bottom grad filters used most often in landscape to reduce the brightness difference between the sky and ground.

Leave any CF in place. As you state it reduces (or eliminates) the fall-off of the lens and thereby reduces the amount of "work" the LCC routine has to do.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

Masters Series Workshop:
New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)
 

jlm

Workshop Member
I could use some advice about LCC workflow. Typically, I'll set up an image, maybe a test shot or two, then using the diffuser and a couple of stops more exposure with the shutter, shoot the LCC frame.

when processing, the LCC is conveniently next to the appropriate image, but i may not remember the details of the shot, like shift, tilt, which way, even the lens fl. I select the LCC frame, choose "analyse" with or without dust removal, maybe the wide angle option, then i have to give the file a name...like "43mm 5mm shift down"

when processing the image, i select that name from the pulldown list.

can these LCC files be stored with the session? I have already started to generate a pretty sloppy list and it seems like there is going to be a pile of redundancy

my camera is the cambo, so there is no auto metadata recording lens type, for example
 

gazwas

Active member
can these LCC files be stored with the session? I have already started to generate a pretty sloppy list and it seems like there is going to be a pile of redundancy
I'm glad someone else finds LCC file storage in Capture One sloppy.

Some months ago, I posted this on the C1 forums and it didn't seem to generate much of a reaction, possibly because most don't shoot tech cameras. I then decided to open a support ticket for a feature request that LCC files should be made session independent and we get an extra folder along with the capture, trash etc folders for LCC. That way, the LCC's remain with the session and the options available under the LCC tab doesn't just grow and grow and grow like at present.

The response from Phase was the standard, "We'll pass my suggestion on for a possible future version on C1"

I suggest anyone who also feels strongly about LCC file storage in C1 to also open a support ticket feature request at Phase for LCC session independence and if enough of us request it, possibly Phase will listen and prioritise this feature implementation. :poke:
 

cly

Member
I then decided to open a support ticket for a feature request that LCC files should be made session independent and we get an extra folder along with the capture, trash etc folders for LCC. That way, the LCC's remain with the session and the options available under the LCC tab doesn't just grow and grow and grow like at present.

The response from Phase was the standard, "We'll pass my suggestion on for a possible future version on C1"
I did the same and they came up with the, excuse me, extremely stupid response that I can manually move or delete my LCC profiles. It seems to me that they have no idea what it means to have a white shot for each and every exposure.

Chris
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Hmm, someone at Phase One just didn't get it did they? That's a very ill informed reply from them by someone who has no clue about technical camera shooting.
 

rupho

New member
+1
I could not agree more
Why can't LCCs stay within the capture folder?
It will make the absolute clutter of LCCs obsolete but also make it easier to move a capture folder from let's say laptop to desktop

And the worst of all is the fact that C1 does not allow for batch processing of LCCs , which IMHO is the most furstrating aspect and a big time waster.


I'm glad someone else finds LCC file storage in Capture One sloppy.

Some months ago, I posted this on the C1 forums and it didn't seem to generate much of a reaction, possibly because most don't shoot tech cameras. I then decided to open a support ticket for a feature request that LCC files should be made session independent and we get an extra folder along with the capture, trash etc folders for LCC. That way, the LCC's remain with the session and the options available under the LCC tab doesn't just grow and grow and grow like at present.

The response from Phase was the standard, "We'll pass my suggestion on for a possible future version on C1"

I suggest anyone who also feels strongly about LCC file storage in C1 to also open a support ticket feature request at Phase for LCC session independence and if enough of us request it, possibly Phase will listen and prioritise this feature implementation. :poke:
 

cly

Member
And the worst of all is the fact that C1 does not allow for batch processing of LCCs , which IMHO is the most furstrating aspect and a big time waster.
I had opened a support case for this as well - I have been told it's being considered for a future version of C1.

But as Gareth wrote above: Perhaps it helps if more people ask for this feature via support case. The lack of batch processing demonstrates that the PhaseOne software engineers never actually used LCCs. Half a day with a tech cam and LCCs should be enough to show them that the current work flow is a nuisance. (Having said this, I really appreciate the recent improvements in the LCC analysis.)

Chris
 

gazwas

Active member
But as Gareth wrote above: Perhaps it helps if more people ask for this feature via support case.
Yes, so PLEASE all who read this thread and feel the same pains about LCC in C1, go to the Phase One website and in the support section open a support ticket as a feature request. The Phase dev team may then realise how many of us feel and we might get something done about it. Phase do listen to users but the occasional eccentric tech camera user just doesn't have a voice amongst all those Phmamiya users.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Agreed, as it sits the LCC storage protocol is borderline stupid. there is no good reason it should not be inside the sessions. Then we should have an option to store a GENERIC LCC library in the existing fashion.

It is absurd to open up the LCC you want to apply and have a list of several hundred to sort through. My current workaround is I leave the image name as the LCC name, and in this way, my most recent LCC is always at the bottom of the list.
 

gazwas

Active member
Not a total solution for all of the concerns aired here but the EIP format does go a long way to dealing with moving LCCs along with the raw files.
Valid point Doug if you need to move images but it doesn't address the ever swelling list of LCC files and as presently implemented goes totally against the "Sessions" ethos. (did we all get our latest image professor email from Phase?)

And I quote from the blog:

"Create a new Session for every new event, trip or job. This will help you keep all relevant images, image corrections and processed images within one physical folder."

........ well not if you're a tech/LCC shooter Phase. ;)

So Doug, could you please have a word with the Phase dev guys for us would you.
 

rga

Member
The matte side is meant to face towards the digital back. It is meant to reduce the chance of reflection of the lens itself in the LCC panel. I've only seen it make a difference in real life once. Generally speaking you can simply not worry about it.



I don't have enough hands-on experience to fully/confidently answer question. However, my strong inclination is to capture the LCC with the polarizer in place.



Definitely remove the grad. ND filter prior to capturing the LCC. Otherwise the LCC will fight against the very effect the ND filter is being used for.



The Schneider wide angles which seat the rear lens element extremely very close to the sensor can generate a ripple effect when combined with digital backs with very small pixel sizes. Generally speaking this means the 24XL, 28XL, 35XL, 43XL, and 47XL when used with the IQ140/160/180 P40/65+, Mamiya DM40/56/80, and Leaf Aptus II 8/10/12. The widest lenses (24/28/35) and the smallest pixel sizes (DM80, IQ180, Aptus II 12) are the most extreme examples.

The "wide angle" drop down option is specific to those combinations and will lead to better results and allow using parts of the image circle which would otherwise not be acceptable with a traditional LCC.

When in doubt select "wide angle" as I've not seen any negative effects when using it on images that don't neccessarily need it.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

Masters Series Workshop:
New England Landscape - Fall Color (Oct 5-8)
I keep the polarizing filter attached when taking my LCC shot...
 
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