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Thread: Landscape Lenses

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    Landscape Lenses

    I have been an avid voyeur of this forum for a while, whilst saving and saving and selling and selling... so I can build a pot of money to buy an Arca Swiss Rm3di... and I am nearly there!

    Selecting a tech camera is difficult although I am happy with this aspect of the choice, but I'm struggling with which lens or lenses to get.

    I shoot almost exclusively B&W landscapes, and in my 35mm set up enjoy my 24, 28 and 35mm lenses the most.

    I would really value your opinion on what lenses you think are best - I hope over time to build a 3 lens set up, and in the first instance will get 1 or two lenses. I think my first choice will be a 24-26mm equivalent... after that I am stuck, and would value your thoughts, if it's okay to ask after not contributing much to this forum!

    Thank you in Advance.

    P.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    If I had to pick only one lens for landscape with a technical camera it would be the 43-47mm range (which would be comparable to a 28-32mm in a 35mm format).

    I have a CAMBO WRS with an Aptus 12 back - and with the 47mm you can shift about 19 mm left and right to produce a 3 panel stitched image with a 13 x 6 ratio. The 3 panel stitch has almost no distortion and is sharp(er) than a tack. To me, this works better than shooting with a 35mm and cropping the center out of it.

    That being said, the 35mm, 72mm and 90mm are GREAT lens too.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I was going to suggest the 40 HR as a starting point. It is basically a 26, so splits the 24 and 28 in 35mm terms.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Okay given what you like for glass in 35 mm land 24, 28, 35

    One a Full Frame sensor

    A tech 35 lens is a 22mm in 35 mm world. So that is a starting point but it would help to know what back first. For instance a IQ 180 is not good with a SK 35 lens but it is with the IQ 160. That's just one example.

    This is also going to depend on your budget as well. Some of these lenses are very expensive 6 k or more.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Damn lost a post. Anyway Jacks suggestion on the Rodie 40 is a good one as it works on all the sensors for one including the IQ 180 and is the widest lens at the 4 k range. Anything wider outside the SK 35 which won't work well on the 180 gets into the expensive range. So if your on a budget it's a great choice. Also the SK 43 is excellent but slightly longer. There is a SK 24 lens but pick your sensor before getting one as it may not work with several out there. It won't work on my IQ 160 for instance and frankly I did not like my results even on a P40 crop sensor. It's a mix and match but I would suggest think hard first on budget and sensor. Than compare notes on what lenses will work effectively with it.
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    Senior Member dchew's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I agree with Jack, although it somewhat hinges on your comment of "1 or 2 lenses."

    If it is only one, the the Rodi 40 (or SK 43xl depending on your interests). If you are starting off with two lenses, then maybe 1) The Rodi 35 and 2) The SK47, Rodi 50 or 55.

    Dave

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I'd agree with Guy that it really is somewhat dependent upon which size and pixel pitch back you choose. The preference for Rodenstock here i think is somewhat driven by those affected by the "curse" of the 5.2 micron sensors. At 6 microns the world is just fine with Schneider wide glass such as the 28, 35, 43, 47XL's ... Personally I'm much happier with my 35XL & 47XL by choosing to use a centre filter on them full time. For landscape shooting why not?

    In the limited time I shot the 24XL on my P40+ I had no issues in particular with LCC's although there was effectively no room for movements. I suspect that the more recent C1 LCC correction algorithms contributed to my acceptance of the same 24mm lens as Guy used.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    My 3-lens kit for my Cambo WRS/P65 is 35, 72, and 120 mm which equate (using Capture Integration's link here) 22, 46 and 77mm.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I'd agree with Guy that it really is somewhat dependent upon which size and pixel pitch back you choose. The preference for Rodenstock here i think is somewhat driven by those affected by the "curse" of the 5.2 micron sensors. At 6 microns the world is just fine with Schneider wide glass such as the 28, 35, 43, 47XL's ... Personally I'm much happier with my 35XL & 47XL by choosing to use a centre filter on them full time. For landscape shooting why not?

    In the limited time I shot the 24XL on my P40+ I had no issues in particular with LCC's although there was effectively no room for movements. I suspect that the more recent C1 LCC correction algorithms contributed to my acceptance of the same 24mm lens as Guy used.
    Yes I did not have the latest LCC corrections at the time.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Gosh, thank you all for the replies, they are greatly appreciated.

    I'm not sure about the back, but my budget is a tad stretched and I have a good offer on a Leaf Aptus-II 7 33mp 48x36... is this okay as a landscape back?

    Lens wise I think that a 40mm sounds good. My budget for a lens or lenses is enough for one expensive lens or alternatively two cheaper lenses; but I'd be happy to live with one and build a kit over the longer term.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Apologies - more research, and it's looking like I might stretch tro two lenses...

    - Rodenstock Apo-Sironar digital HR 35mm f/4 OR Schneider 5,6/35mm Digitar
    - Schneider Super Angulon XL 5.6/47 Copal OR Schneider Apo-Digitar XL 5.6/47 Copal.

    What do you think?

    Again, all feedback is very welcome!

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    My kit is 28 Rode (sold & replaced with 35 Rode on its way), 47, 90 & 180 all Schneider. My kit is more spread out than what you need, but as far as your conundrum I can say that:
    - The Schneider 47 XL is a great lens, corrects real easy as far as LCC goes (I also use a center filter on it to put less strain on the file's corners); so is probably the Rode 40, though I should say I tried and returned a sample due to very poor performance in the lower right corner; the Rode is much bigger & heavier, but offers better performance on the IQ 180;
    - I wouldn't go for a lens that "split the difference" if you are really bound on getting the focals you are used to on 35mm terms; you would end up selling it to replace it with your desired focals, and the market for these specialty lenses is not as good as you are used with your 35mm stuff; I'd suggest starting building the kit you really want a lens or two at a time.
    - One more thing: as far as coverage, remember that with the help of rise/fall & horizontal shift you will be able to use the whole image circle of a lens resulting in wider coverage than the lens equivalence in 35mm would; what I mean is, by using horizontal & vertical shifts you effectively use a larger image area than what your sensor is, so your lens ends up covering a wider angle than you would without movements. The basic principle for this is the same which makes a 50 mm lens a "normal" focal on 35mm but an extreme wide angle on 8x10 - so, you might be able to do without having to buy 24, 28 & 35mm equivalent lenses but just with something in the 28/35 and 47/70 ranges. Hence my choice of 35 (with a very large IC), 47 (with a pretty large one), 90 (very large), 180 (pretty large) to cover much of what I need.

    Hope this helps, and good luck with whatever you choose
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by supernewtent View Post

    What do you think?
    The SK35 and 47 APO digitars are good choices if the focals suit you. Note they are slightly older designs and of course why they can be had a little more economically than newer Rodie or SK versions. In their case, the main deficit is smaller usable IC's and more falloff than newer designs; they are good lenses though. Because of the falloff, you will probably want to use a CF 100% of the time with both, so be sure to factor the cost of the dedicated CF for each into your purchase equation.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Yes I use a CF all the time on the 35XL . Just is much better all around with my LCC and such.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I would point out that I PREFER to use the CF filter on the 47 XL Digitar but it is by no means required, particularly if using a non-full frame back or extreme movements. For the 35XL, it's better all around as Guy mentioned as less clean up is required.

    Don't get the SK Super Angulon 47XL as it's really optimized for film use, not MFDBs.

    Before making a decision you might also want to compare the size/weight of the various offerings too.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    If you are going to use the whole IC, you will most definitely want the center filter.

    The tolerance on the SK CF for the 35 is so tight that you can't add a filter without getting into your IC. Even with an upsize ring and larger filter the upsize ring digs into the IC. Of course that is moot point if you don't plan to use the whole IC. I rarely used it because it was just too soft on mine.

    Even though the SK35 is an older design, with the exception of the extreme edges of the IC the lens is a stellar performer, especially on the P45+ or crop sensors. Very sharp with very good clarity.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Gosh, I think I'm confused!!

    This advice is excellent, and I wonder if I should just ask what are the best 2 lenses that I could get - a first and a second choice, bearing in mind I like the wide to standard range of lens, and a wide lens would be my first choice? Then, if the lenses are much more expensive I might just get one for now!

    Sorry to be a pest but it feels like you guys are a mine of information, and you all seem to know more than my dealer! I hope he's not reading this :-)

    I told you that selecting a lens was proving tricky!!

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by supernewtent; 27th September 2011 at 12:07.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay given what you like for glass in 35 mm land 24, 28, 35

    One a Full Frame sensor

    A tech 35 lens is a 22mm in 35 mm world. So that is a starting point but it would help to know what back first. For instance a IQ 180 is not good with a SK 35 lens but it is with the IQ 160. That's just one example.

    This is also going to depend on your budget as well. Some of these lenses are very expensive 6 k or more.
    I'm actually getting good results with my SK 35 on my IQ 180, but shifts are out of the question.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Campbell View Post
    I'm actually getting good results with my SK 35 on my IQ 180, but shifts are out of the question.
    That reminds me of when I tried the 24mm great lens just couldn't do any movements...
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by supernewtent View Post
    Gosh, I think I'm confused!!
    Welcome to the world of tech cams and lens choices

    This advice is excellent, and I wonder if I should just ask what are the best 2 lenses that I could get - a first and a second choice, bearing in mind I like the wide to standard range of lens, and a wide lens would be my first choice? Then, if the lenses are much more expensive I might just get one for now!
    Depends first on HOW wide for your wide, and we can't say until we know which sensor you buy!!! If you go full frame, my choices would be in this order:

    1) Rodie 40 HR-W; 1a) SK 43; but I would not argue against the 32HR-W if you want really wide.

    2) Rodie 70 HR-W 2a) SK 72. Both great "normal" options. But again, if you like a loose normal, I would not argue against the new SK60.

    Of course if you go with a crop sensor cam, you basically throw all this out and start over -- probably then a 23HR for your wide and a 40 - 50 anything for your normal.

    Sorry to be a pest but it feels like you guys are a mine of information, and you all seem to know more than my dealer!
    It's not an easy decision as there are a lot of variables to consider. But first and foremost is what back -- that decision is going to drive everything else. And herein lies another pitfall --- if you do go with a crop back, your lens choices may go out the door if you decide to move to a larger back in the future...
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I think that the back will be the Leaf Aptus-II 7 33mp 48mmx36mm - budget driven as the next step up is way too far to me!

    I think I'd like quite wide in between the 32 and 43.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Welcome to the world of tech cams and lens choices

    And herein lies another pitfall --- if you do go with a crop back, your lens choices may go out the door if you decide to move to a larger back in the future...
    Very true on both counts!

    While I knew I was cropping w/my P45+ I never realised just how much until I traded it for the P65+.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    And, to make things one notch more confusing: I'm another recent entrant from the 35mm world to the MFDB world, and I didn't realise how much the change in sensor aspect ratio affects your perception of focal-length-equivalence. I also have a 48x36 Aptus sensor, which works out to a 4:3 aspect ratio - my full-frame Canon is 2:3. So, simply duplicating your favourite focal lengths may not give the results you expect.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I feel less knowledgable than I did 24 hours ago, but I know quite a bit more - if this makes any sense at all!! I guess the gap in terms of what I need to learn is larger than I thought!!

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by supernewtent View Post
    I think that the back will be the Leaf Aptus-II 7 33mp 48mmx36mm - budget driven as the next step up is way too far to me!

    I think I'd like quite wide in between the 32 and 43.
    The only things between 32 and 43 are the 35's and the 40 HR. With your slight crop back, I'd probably go wider -- but then the delta in cost for the 32HR over a 35 or even the 40HR is almost enough to pay for the full-frame sensor!
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post

    1) Rodie 40 HR-W; 1a) SK 43; but I would not argue against the 32HR-W if you want really wide.

    2) Rodie 70 HR-W 2a) SK 72. Both great "normal" options. But again, if you like a loose normal, I would not argue against the new SK60.

    Is there anything wider that suppors full-frame and movements?

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Is there anything wider that suppors full-frame and movements?
    This will be dependent on the back you are using. The biggest ones that will be problematic are obviously the Full Frame sensors and to a lessor degree of the crop sensor backs. As noted here on this forum the IQ 180 will have more restrictions here than say the IQ 160. I think it's kind of noted now for the IQ 180 that the Rodie 23,32,40 will do a good amount of movements but the 23 will of course be very little movements. As the focal length goes up more shifting is possible. For the SK lens the 43 works well. My SK 35 will have very little movement on the IQ 180 but more on the IQ 160 for example.
    So best to let us know what back you have and be easy to steer you in the right direction. Now for example the IQ 140 with it's crop factor can use just about any lens with a fair amount of shift. It's a good idea to pay attention to what users are using for each back and if they are reporting certain limitations. Many threads here on a lot of this.

    Also pay attention to rise and fall as well not just shifting which in many cases will be used less than rise and fall. I use rise and fall on almost every shot but shift very little. Obviously this will depend on situation. Now shift will show up faster these restrictions than rise and fall but you should still be aware of the total movements. Some shots may require a 10mm of rise than shift on top of that. Hope that helps
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I know you guys are responding with regards to techcams, but what would you guys use on the PhaseOne 645DF? Are the 28mm and 35mm any good, any wider or other choices without going techcam?

    Thanks
    Po

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    I know you guys are responding with regards to techcams, but what would you guys use on the PhaseOne 645DF? Are the 28mm and 35mm any good, any wider or other choices without going techcam?
    The quality of the 28/35 depend on what you're comparing them to and whether you are using a full frame or cropped sensor.

    The 28D vs a Rodenstock 28mm on an IQ160 - there is no comparison.
    The 28D vs a Rodenstock 28mm on an IQ140 - much closer.

    Some basic information on the technical reasons behind why the lenses on a tech camera are better on the wide end:
    http://www.captureintegration.com/te...l-view-camera/

    Notably the ability for the optical designs on a tech camera to position the lens elements anywhere they want, without having to worry about a mirror box. The same reasons (among other design/quality issues) that wide angle lenses made for the M9 which has no mirror box are generally superior to Canon Wide angle lens made for a camera with a mirror box.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Hey Doug,

    Thank you for your reply! In general terms, would you say the IQ180 would be pushing the optics in wide angles for the 645DF unless going techcam then?

    Thanks
    Po

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Is there anything wider that suppors full-frame and movements?
    ALL of the lenses I listed in your quote will support generous movements on the IQ180 back.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Thanks Jack and Guy for your detailed responses. I am still debating an IQ160 or Aptus 12. Reading all this stuff is making my head spin to the point I thinking I should just get an S2 and get it over with )

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Thanks Jack and Guy for your detailed responses. I am still debating an IQ160 or Aptus 12. Reading all this stuff is making my head spin to the point I thinking I should just get an S2 and get it over with )
    My head is going through the same thing, got to the S2 part and then I thought some more...doh! :P

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Na just decide what back first. BTW I love my 160 if that helps and almost everything will work. Couple limitations and we all can certainly help you decide.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    IQ160 is awesome - literally. You'd now have to prise mine from my cold dead fingers ... However, if I were JUST shooting technical cameras I'd very very seriously look at the IQ140 because all of the same UI wonderlust applies to the smaller sensor and you gain basically unlimited lens choices. I loved the flexibility of my P40+ in this respect but it was hampered by the UI for technical camera use (image review). The Leaf backs are much better in this area too and a great option. I still have a lot of love for my Aptus 65 and the newer backs have a brighter and clearer UI.

    The newer 5.2 micron sensors seem to be outstanding based on the feedback of those using them but you do seem to need to be hyper careful about what lenses and overall workflow you use with them. That would apply to both the IQ180 & Aptus II 12. I could have stepped up to the IQ180 but decided to play it safe with the IQ160 (I know I'm not alone in that choice btw). That was in part because of the need to basically dump my technical camera lens collection if I'd gone that way - something that would have cost much more than the IQ160--> IQ180 price difference.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 28th September 2011 at 21:20.
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    If you folks are looking for IQ 140's two of our sponsor dealers each have one ready to ship which is pretty rare. Brand new

    Let me know
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by supernewtent View Post
    I think that the back will be the Leaf Aptus-II 7 33mp 48mmx36mm - budget driven as the next step up is way too far to me!

    I think I'd like quite wide in between the 32 and 43.
    The Rodie HR 40 and SK43 are both excellent on this back. Puts you at about 28mm equivalent on a 35mm camera.

    The comments on being confused, from practical experience ... a good dealer will help more than anything else. Try things out. Absolutely do not rush into this.

  38. #38
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Thank you all for those suggestions, very much appreciated - is there a lens you would recommend that is slightly wider, around the 24mm equivalent?

    I'm a bit stuck dealer wide as very few sell the arca kit, and my dealer is 200 miles away - I spent over 2 hours in the store a few days ago, but I genuinely think you folk have more knowledge.. but I'm slightly aware that I don't want to abuse you all with questions for help....

  39. #39
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    The 40 is a 26/27 on full frame and will set you back about $4000. The 32HR is the gold standard in that arena right now (about a 20 on FF), and it will set you back about $8,000. The 35 is a 22 equivalent for full-frame MF, but they are older designs -- not bad, just older and so have more falloff. In 35's, the SK is the one I would pick, but as mentioned earlier, you'll want to add the Center Filter and leave it on for most shots. You can probably find a used one for under $3,000, but add $400 or so for the CF.

    If you go with a crop sensor, then you need to look at a SK 28 for your 24 equivalent. The downside is a really small IC so not much movement (a little on the crop sensor). But mostly that if you ever upgrade your back (and you will) it will just barely cover full-frame, and has heavy lens cast even on the P65+/IQ160, and so much cast on the IQ180 it won't correct.

    The 28 is the current "no man's land" of tech lenses. Many of us (ME) really want a good 28 solution and there simply isn't one. The 32 HR is a phenomenal lens, but not quite wide enough for my needs. It appears I am going to have to settle for going more wide than I really want and get the 23, OR do what I do now and save $8 grand by stitching the 40...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    The 40 is a 26/27 on full frame and will set you back about $4000. The 32HR is the gold standard in that arena right now (about a 20 on FF), and it will set you back about $8,000. The 35 is a 22 equivalent for full-frame MF, but they are older designs -- not bad, just older and so have more falloff. In 35's, the SK is the one I would pick, but as mentioned earlier, you'll want to add the Center Filter and leave it on for most shots. You can probably find a used one for under $3,000, but add $400 or so for the CF.

    If you go with a crop sensor, then you need to look at a SK 28 for your 24 equivalent. The downside is a really small IC so not much movement (a little on the crop sensor). But mostly that if you ever upgrade your back (and you will) it will just barely cover full-frame, and has heavy lens cast even on the P65+/IQ160, and so much cast on the IQ180 it won't correct.

    The 28 is the current "no man's land" of tech lenses. Many of us (ME) really
    want a good 28 solution and there simply isn't one. The 32 HR is a phenomenal lens, but not quite wide enough for my needs. It appears I am going to have to settle for going more wide than I really want and get the 23, OR do what I do now and save $8 grand by stitching the 40...
    And this is exactly where some of us sit for the IQ 160 and IQ 180 users. Now the SK 28 is a guess on the 160 and will try it next week myself. See if I can get some movements out of it but like Jack said it could be a no go.
    The 160 we get a little more leeway but still a challenge.

    Well said Jack pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly. I shot the Rodie 32 and it was very nice and you can get away without the CF but it is big, heavy and expensive.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #41
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If you go with a crop sensor, then you need to look at a SK 28 for your 24 equivalent. The downside is a really small IC so not much movement (a little on the crop sensor). But mostly that if you ever upgrade your back (and you will) it will just barely cover full-frame, and has heavy lens cast even on the P65+/IQ160, and so much cast on the IQ180 it won't correct.
    The SK 28 has an IC of 90mm which is quite a lot for a lens as wide as this one. (The Rodenstock 23 is a problem when it comes to movements - not sure if you had the Rodenstock in mind).

    Chris

  42. #42
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    My thoughts with a 28mm is rise and fall. Can't imagine stitching much with it. But thats me
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  43. #43
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    My thoughts with a 28mm is rise and fall. Can't imagine stitching much with it. But thats me
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member kuau's Avatar
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    Re: Landscape Lenses

    I'm using a sinar artec with a lesf aptus ii 7 33mp with a 35, 72, and 135mm sinar lenses and I am quite happy and I I get over 15mm of shift
    Steven Kornreich
    www.kuau.com

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