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Thread: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

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    MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    i can read anything and the opposite about this lens...

    How does it perform at f11 ou F16 using full movements on a P45+ or P65+ or similar backs ?

  2. #2
    Garcia
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Very nice lens for the money. Maybe you need to adjust infinity focus though.

    I posted a full pic shot with my Aptus 12 some weeks ago at f16. I think if you nail focus, it's sharper at f11 or even at f8

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26036

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    As Garcia said it is a good lens... For the money!
    But mine is very poor when focusing at infinity (best f:16 1/2). When i use it Focusing <7m it is quite sharp at f:8 or 11. I shift it not so much than 10-12mm. Color rendition is good.
    I'll send a crop tomorow.
    I think the hartblei 45 ts is a better choice even if it's 1000€ more, tilting option can get the extra DOF needed for these non-razors sharp lenses imho.
    Don't you get a Rm3d for those kind of shoots?

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    You might want to read these on this site. I understand some are not great, but speaking for myself, I have owned 5 of them over the years, and all were quite good, but only the last one was used on the P65+. It is the same lens Guy bought from me and wrote about here:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14864

    And here is an overview of several Mamiya lenses, the 50 shift about half way down my first post:

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15710
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    so it lloks like that there is sample variation... i will tried to test it before buying... not that easy with ebay folks !

    What's the best F stop ? F11 ?

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    Garcia
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Here is a 100% crop at f5.6. Electric poles in the background are 4 miles away. Brick wall in the foreground is in the hundred yard range. Hope this helps.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    thanks !

    i will try one...

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Read Guys comments, he said he was using a P40+

    As I understand that has microlenses, and is not recommended for use on a technical camera. Due to the rise/fall r/l shift not working well.

    Now, it seems that with this 50mm shift, the right/left shift bit works.

    Not really shooting either, I'm a bit confused.

    If I put the Mamiya on my ball head, carefully change from portrait to landscape, by rotating the camera, l/r shift now becomes rise/fall. ( I think) Thus this lens could give me the rise/fall that tech camera shooters rave about, with my back.

    Having a P30+, I'm quite interested .......

    Dave

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    Member Jérôme.E's Avatar
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    P40+ doesn't have microlenses...
    Your P30+ is not recommended on a tech cam but it deserves a try with the 50 shift.
    You surely find someone who tested it.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    The P40 does not have micro lenses in the truest sense like a P30 so it is fine for tech cams. Many folks are using it today on tech cams. This sensor is identical to the IQ 140 and also the P65 and IQ 160 just the P40 is a crop sensor . In effect the P40 with the 50 shift will have less corner sharpness softness than it's bigger brothers.

    In all honesty the P40 in a sense is a much more friendly back with lenses. Since some lenses like a 28, 35 and 45 can get soft on the FF sensors but on the crop P40 they perform much nicer in the corners. Truth be told if you want to use lens like this and some of the older style Mamiya glass you are far better off with the P40 and the IQ 140. Frankly the only downside on a P40 is the crop factor in the viewfinder shows and it's a little tough to see those crop lines when working fast and maybe the only reason I moved up to the FF sensor. If the crop was not there I would have gone IQ 140 and did have it order. To me the IQ 140 is maybe the best all around solution going. Since it's a much friendlier back for some of the cheaper lenses. Most of us do not need more than 40 mpx sensors.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Let me add maybe the best 5 to 7 year back you can buy. People overlook it because they are thinking MPX. Believe me this lacks for nothing on IQ. I wish more people would buy this back to get in the MF world than screwing around trying to squeeze every drop out of 35 that simply is just not close to the quality of file. I say that with a grin. I loved this back
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    If the crop was not there I would have gone IQ 140 and did have it order. To me the IQ 140 is maybe the best all around solution going. Since it's a much friendlier back for some of the cheaper lenses. Most of do not need more than 40 mpx sensors.
    +1

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jérôme.E View Post
    P40+ doesn't have microlenses...
    Your P30+ is not recommended on a tech cam but it deserves a try with the 50 shift.
    You surely find someone who tested it.
    Yea you might have some color shift with the p30 plus so you may want to think about shooting LCC to correct any color shift. It could possible fall apart too. This one I have not tested. Time to move up in backs. I'm so bad. Lol

    Actually I did exactly that went p30 plus to P40 plus and it certainly was worth the upgrade. I like the Dalsa sensor better
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    i've just order one with a hight serial number and mint... cross fingers !

    by the way, with a P65+ it's similar to a 46mm on a P45+...

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Yea you might have some color shift with the p30 plus so you may want to think about shooting LCC to correct any color shift. It could possible fall apart too. This one I have not tested.
    Ha! I finally can offer some useful info here, as I have this lens and use it with a P30+ back! That said, note that mine has been modified for use on a Hasselblad V and I use it with an adapter on my Contax 645, so YMMV (although I don't think any of that matters for the purposes of this discussion, so long as the lens elements are in the correct location relative to the sensor, which they clearly are).

    That said, I usually use mine in portrait mode and have found the color shift to be minimal for the first few mm of shift (i.e., no LCC correction is usually required), it starts to become noticeable (but is still correctable) at 5-6mm, and vignetting becomes visible at 7-8mm. At max shift, the image will actually go black for a few mm at the very edge of the frame, but even that isn't usually an issue for me, as most of the time this occurs in the sky and I'm usually shooting at night, when the sky is pretty much black anyway. In landscape mode, exactly the same effects occur except that you can add another mm of two of shift to each of the ranges cited above before they become apparent.

    Bottom-line: For small shifts of a few mm on a single-frame shot, the Mamiya 50mm/f4 will work fine with a P30+ even without an LCC correction. And if you're shooting for an eventual conversion to b&w or in relatively bright light, where the use of the LCC tool gives more than it takes away, then you can easily get away with shifts of 5-6mm as well, but I wouldn't recommend it for stitching images unless you're trying to achieve a slightly wider angle FoV rather than a larger file size.

    As an aside, based upon these results, I'm working on a shift adapter that will allow me to use Hasselblad V lenses on my Contax with a few mm of movement. I had a version successfully working earlier this summer, but accidentally machined it too thin as I was tweaking it and haven't had the time yet to start over on a replacement part. By no means will this be a substitute for a proper tech camera, but it should be a cost-effective solution for my purposes and more importantly, my amateur-level budget.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by archivue View Post
    i've just order one with a hight serial number and mint... cross fingers !

    by the way, with a P65+ it's similar to a 46mm on a P45+...
    P40 than you will be very happy with it and congrats. Both our sponsor dealers do have P40+ on hand used from the trade ins and actually I heard from both of them they each have a 140 on hand rear to ship. Honestly i can't recommend these two backs enough for folks that will be happy to stay on budget and in the 40 mpx range. My only real thing that got to me after time was the damn viewfinder and maybe that will be a non issue with a new body. I mean can't they add a dial me in to my sensor crop in the finder so that is all you see. Come on it can't be that hard. LOL

    This is certainly a great way to get into the door and like the H40 a great start into the MF world. Both OEM's offer nice upgrade paths when your ready to move up if you want. Hell there was no way in the world i could have gone to a IQ 160 without a great trade in value. Once your in folks they make it so you don't leave with great upgrades. Yea its marketing but it helps us users.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    i still can't understand why there's not shift adapter made for hassy V lenses ( 50FLE... 40CFi)... on a mamiya DF...

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    Member Jérôme.E's Avatar
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Here are some crops with my mamiya 50 shift (default accentuation and noise reduction at 80iso - Aptus II 10)

    f16 1/2 infinity (wireless and 6 secs mirror-up) - the best i reach at infinity



    f11 infinity (bad !!)


    F11 at 4 meters - works well



    I wanted to also use this lens handheld for personal architectural work (i know this sound weird ) 'cause it could be boring to use a tripod in Paris (autorization needed if not "police on my back" like the famous Clash sound) and i like to stay "quiet". With my trusty Minolta VI it works ok (with a bit of keystone for sure) but at f 16 1/2, 80-100 iso and a minimum of 2xfocal speed, weather as to be very clear and/or harsh, so it limits the creativity. Even with that it's not razor sharp... waiting now for my Rm3d (or Alpa STC) ... in fact for the money

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    This is why I went and bought a Cambo with a 35 lens on it so I can shift and get much better results.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    C50mm is a retrofocus design, so, not much trouble with color cast.

    Jérôme: you can easily adjust infinity focus in C50. Under the focus ring rubber, there is 3 little screws. Loose them a bit and then you can turn the focus ring while blocking the front element so you can modify actual lens to focal plane distance when you set the focus to infinity-

    Be careful. You may only need offset a couple of millimeters .

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
    Jérôme: you can easily adjust infinity focus in C50. Under the focus ring rubber, there is 3 little screws. Loose them a bit and then you can turn the focus ring while blocking the front element so you can modify actual lens to focal plane distance when you set the focus to infinity-

    Be careful. You may only need offset a couple of millimeters .
    Thanks a lot Garcia, i didn't know. I'll try, carefully

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
    C50mm is a retrofocus design, so, not much trouble with color cast.

    Under the focus ring rubber, there is 3 little screws.
    I haven't found them! The only 3 i found are "under" the rear cap, at the bottom of the lens.

  23. #23
    Garcia
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    They should be there, around the focus ring, 120º apart one from each other, under the rubber.

    In order to remove the focus ring rubber completely, you must take apart the shift mount. But I think you can manage without the hassle.

    Cheers.

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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    I finally got a Mamiya 50mm shift early this year from eBay for $500au shipped from Poland. I find it a very good lens with simple barrel distortion (no moustaches!) which is easy to correct. I have used it both for stitching and for single shots with movement.

    Below is a reduced resolution photo (40%) from Adelaide’s Botanic Garden during winter (2138 x 1603px) followed by some 100% screenshots from C1 showing the crop via the Navigator tool (reason for the differences in brightness is that I set vignetting to zero when processing the full frame).

    Probably f11, with a fair amount of drop front, on 36 x 48mm Aptus 22. No sharpness falloff added. Open in new window or tab to see full size.








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    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Tried adding Sharpness Falloff of 100%—impressed! Extreme bottom-left.


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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    i'm pretty shure that the DF screen isn't good at all for focusing shift lenses... best is to focus unshift, then apply shift... or maybe using the distance scale (after having check it with live view...).

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    You are supposed to meter AND focus BEFORE you apply the shifts.
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Agree with Jack here. Get everything on manual with shutter and aperture, focus and don't touch focus when shifting. No automation here your the steering wheel. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    by the way, any focus shift with that lens ?

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    None that I noticed.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    thanks !

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Hi!
    I'm a long time reader of the forum, but never got the time or need to signup.

    I realize that this is a very old thread, but I need some urgent answers about a Mamiya 50mm f4 shift lens that I recently bought.

    Today I received a Mamiya 50mm f4 Shift lens that I bought on ebay last week. I was planning to use it on my 645DF, but sadly i realized that it has a different mount than Mamiya 645, after a search, it seems that it has been modified for a Hasselblad V system.

    I don't really blame the seller since he's not specialized in photography equipment, and the lens itself was very well priced and the cosmetic and optical condition seems to be excellent. Adapters for using Hasselblad lenses on M645 don't look expensive (although right now I could only find some dubious ebay sellers from Hong Kong). The lens seems maybe 2cm shorter now than the original version, so with an adapter it will regain roughly the original distance from the back element to the mount, maybe a little more.

    So I guess my questions are: Can I use this lens with a Hassy to Mamiya adapter? Will that affect the performance of the lens? Maybe I can focus it at infinity?

    Thanks!

    ps: I've posted a couple of pics and another ebay link with a similar lens to the one I bought.
    Mamiya SHIFT C 1:4 50mm 4/50 Objektiv für Hasselbald z.b. 500 CM | eBay

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    I've never seen that before. My bet is it was a one-off (or give your eBay link a two-off) for a special application like aerial or on a 200 series body (given that a normal 500 body would not be able to use it due to lack of shutter).

    IF it was designed to work (including infinity focus) on a 200 series body than it would work on a Phase/Mamiya body with a V-to-M adapter. Also assuming the remanufacturing was done carefully and did not result in any mechanical alignment issues then the quality would not be degraded simply by putting it on a Phase/Mamiya body with a mechanical adpater. But since I've never seen anything like this, and I strongly suspect no one here has either, then we can't tell you for sure if either of these suppositions are correct.

    This just highlights the downsides of using eBay rather than a specialized medium format dealer or a more photo-dedicated site like KEH.com.

    If you have a good relationship to a specialized Phase or Mamiya Leaf dealer it should be very easy to borrow a V-to-M adapter and test this lens out. If not, I guess I'd suggest either returning the lens, or buying a V-to-M adapter and hope that it's in good optical condition and was remounted in a way that maintained infinity focus.

    There is always some chance that someone here has seen this before and will have the specific answer, but I would not hold your breath for that - I haven't seen everything, but usually I've at least heard of something.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    I've never seen that before. My bet is it was a one-off (or give your eBay link a two-off) for a special application like aerial or on a 200 series body (given that a normal 500 body would not be able to use it due to lack of shutter).

    IF it was designed to work (including infinity focus) on a 200 series body than it would work on a Phase/Mamiya body with a V-to-M adapter. Also assuming the remanufacturing was done carefully and did not result in any mechanical alignment issues then the quality would not be degraded simply by putting it on a Phase/Mamiya body with a mechanical adpater. But since I've never seen anything like this, and I strongly suspect no one here has either, then we can't tell you for sure if either of these suppositions are correct.

    This just highlights the downsides of using eBay rather than a specialized medium format dealer or a more photo-dedicated site like KEH.com.

    If you have a good relationship to a specialized Phase or Mamiya Leaf dealer it should be very easy to borrow a V-to-M adapter and test this lens out. If not, I guess I'd suggest either returning the lens, or buying a V-to-M adapter and hope that it's in good optical condition and was remounted in a way that maintained infinity focus.

    There is always some chance that someone here has seen this before and will have the specific answer, but I would not hold your breath for that - I haven't seen everything, but usually I've at least heard of something.
    thanks for throwing some light on the matter! I think I will return it after all, the modification seems very well crafted but I rather get one with the Mamiya mount than using an adapter.

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    A client of mine just picked up a Mamiya 50mm f/4 shift lens for under $600 on KEH.
    Working with a place like KEH on a older used lens is a better alternative than Ebay as they stand behind what they sell and usually have more than one of the item.
    This is important so if you get a piece of equipment from them and ir does not work, they are able to replace it usually.
    So if your looking for a lens to replace this one try them.

    Lance
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Further to lance's comment about KEH, I've always found their quality definitions conservative. I will buy EX/VG and even bargain from them because there is no risk (you can return anything). Their excellent is darn near new condition in my experience.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    A client of mine just picked up a Mamiya 50mm f/4 shift lens for under $600 on KEH.
    Working with a place like KEH on a older used lens is a better alternative than Ebay as they stand behind what they sell and usually have more than one of the item.
    This is important so if you get a piece of equipment from them and ir does not work, they are able to replace it usually.
    So if your looking for a lens to replace this one try them.

    Lance
    I just check on KEH but it seems that they don't have this lens listed right now.
    thanks for the suggestion.

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    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    They have one here:
    http://www.keh.com/camera/Mamiya-645...00700296N?r=FE

    Peter

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul82 View Post
    I just check on KEH but it seems that they don't have this lens listed right now.
    thanks for the suggestion.
    Peter
    My website

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    Re: MAMIYA 50 shift lens... differenst opinions...

    The lens sharpness is decent shifted and the distortion is not too strong. Enclosed a pic fully shifted 15 mm on a IQ180 back. Feel free to draw you own conclusions.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-upperhalf.jpg
    On the FPS + IQ back I use the Zeiss Hasselblad CF 50f4 FLE with a Mirex TS adapter (Hasselblad V to Canon EF) which also gives 15mm shift movement in any direction (easier and more precise to do +15mm/-15mm shifted pics for stitching than shifting one side and turning 180° with the Mamiya 50f4 PC lens) and shifted corner sharpness is better but that is not an option for Mamiya 645/Phase One camera users because the flange distance difference between Hasselblad V and Mamiya 645 is not enough for a shift adapter.

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