Graham Mitchell
New member
I'll give you the opposite advice to Guy 
I've never needed more than 1/1000 but then again I don't have the hot Arizona sun.
I've never needed more than 1/1000 but then again I don't have the hot Arizona sun.The GetDPI Photography Forum
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I mirror that experience ... I just set ISO 50 on my H3D-II/39 and rarely need over 1/800th ... and on the rare occassion I do, I use a ND filter or my Polarizer.I'll give you the opposite advice to Guy
What I far more frequently need in bright sunny conditions is fill flash for light balancing the subject with the ambient lighting conditions to fill the deep shadow areas, and eliminate "Racoon Eye."
I do not want to be boxed in with 1/125th top sync speed that forces a smaller aperture ... or makes it difficult to hand hold my HC 150, 210 or even the 350/4. It's another reason I swapped out from a Contax 645 to a Leaf Shutter 645 camera.
As usual, your mileage may vary based on what you shoot most frequently.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
I know but we are not shooting speeding boats either.
Seriously for his shooting he needs to look at the Exif data on his Canon files and see. I would like a leaf shutter too but my need falls more on the focal plane. I still like shooting wide open and in this environment with no clouds sometimes it is a real hard task but fill flash is tougher to do also.
Seriously for his shooting he needs to look at the Exif data on his Canon files and see. I would like a leaf shutter too but my need falls more on the focal plane. I still like shooting wide open and in this environment with no clouds sometimes it is a real hard task but fill flash is tougher to do also.
dougpeterson
Workshop Member
Call me biased, which I am, but I think it is unlikely Hasselblad will introduce a focal plane shutter in a modern design. Moreover if they did it seems very likely they would force you to upgrade to their latest back to use it, so taking it into consideration now would be a moot point. For instance when they released the 28mm lens they locked out all previous Hasselblad backs and all competitors backs.
In contrast Phase has promised a line of leaf shutter lenses will ship this year and made them compatible with the existing Phase One body which is in turn compatible with just about anything you can physically fit on the rear.
Comparing Hassy and P1 there is not really any debate which will have an open future and both fast shutter speed (1/4000th) and fast sync speed (likely 1/500th or faster).
Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
In contrast Phase has promised a line of leaf shutter lenses will ship this year and made them compatible with the existing Phase One body which is in turn compatible with just about anything you can physically fit on the rear.
Comparing Hassy and P1 there is not really any debate which will have an open future and both fast shutter speed (1/4000th) and fast sync speed (likely 1/500th or faster).
Doug Peterson
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
lance_schad
Workshop Member
Carlos,
If you are leaning towards the H body, PhaseOne still makes backs that are compatible with the H2 (and we have new H2 bodies available). Also CaptureOne 4.1.2 supports lens corrections for the HC and V series lenses now.
Also in about two weeks Phase One should be releasing their Leaf Shutter Lenses (yes i know they have been quiet, but they have a lot going on, yeah?)for the PhaseOne AF camera system and then you will have the best of both worlds.
You mention you like having one battery control the camera and digital back. Just remember if you want to use the Hassy back on a technical camera, you will need to purchase and use their image bank which is around 2K.
Also the PhaseOne AF body runs on off the shelf AA batteries or rechargeable and the P+ runs off a standard Canon BP-911 type battery ($70 for Phase about $35 for third party) vs the Hasselblad rechargeable grip is $218 + $156 for charger (if you need to replace or spare) also the grip that takes the CR123a batteries is $156+.
Also if you are in the field and the something happens to the body, on the Phase you can take any off the shelf AFD/II/III and pop your back on it and your off and running. With the Hassy you need to have a matched spare purchased up front.
Another thing that has made the PhaseOne AF/Mamiya AFD platform popular is the wide variety of lenses available new and on the used market. You can have a complete set of lenses pretty much for the price of one HC lens. We usually recommend that you purchase the most commonly used lenses new and fill in your kit with used ones, which can be manual or AF versions.
Anyway come one by and take the 45+/30+ out for a spin on both platforms and we'll go through the work-flow again and answer any additional questions.
L
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
[email protected]
If you are leaning towards the H body, PhaseOne still makes backs that are compatible with the H2 (and we have new H2 bodies available). Also CaptureOne 4.1.2 supports lens corrections for the HC and V series lenses now.
Also in about two weeks Phase One should be releasing their Leaf Shutter Lenses (yes i know they have been quiet, but they have a lot going on, yeah?)for the PhaseOne AF camera system and then you will have the best of both worlds.
You mention you like having one battery control the camera and digital back. Just remember if you want to use the Hassy back on a technical camera, you will need to purchase and use their image bank which is around 2K.
Also the PhaseOne AF body runs on off the shelf AA batteries or rechargeable and the P+ runs off a standard Canon BP-911 type battery ($70 for Phase about $35 for third party) vs the Hasselblad rechargeable grip is $218 + $156 for charger (if you need to replace or spare) also the grip that takes the CR123a batteries is $156+.
Also if you are in the field and the something happens to the body, on the Phase you can take any off the shelf AFD/II/III and pop your back on it and your off and running. With the Hassy you need to have a matched spare purchased up front.
Another thing that has made the PhaseOne AF/Mamiya AFD platform popular is the wide variety of lenses available new and on the used market. You can have a complete set of lenses pretty much for the price of one HC lens. We usually recommend that you purchase the most commonly used lenses new and fill in your kit with used ones, which can be manual or AF versions.
Anyway come one by and take the 45+/30+ out for a spin on both platforms and we'll go through the work-flow again and answer any additional questions.
L
Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
[email protected]
T
TMARK
Guest
And remember you can also slap and AFd mount back on an RZ for 1/400 sync. when you need it.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Just testing something folks having a tech issue
Maybe this is the wrong thread to bring this up, but maybe not. There seems to be this somewhat spirited/competitive debate about which camera/system is "better", and it usually devolves to discussions, sometimes passionate, about leaf versus focal plane shutter and lenses, then drifts off into a bit less nice discussion about closed systems (Hasselblad) against the rest of the world.
The fact is that there are needs for both focal plane and leaf shutter systems. Not an easy task to achieve in any one camera or system.....so far. Phase, touting the always coming leaf shutter lenses, and folks dumping on Hasselblad for constant forward motion (progress?) in their designs and offerings. Personally, if your work is as diverse and demanding as expressed, then both systems may be the ticket. If, on the other hand, like a lot of us, you are seeking a one camera/system solution, well, that really does not yet exist.
I find it hard to believe that lenses designed several years ago, before newer technology requirements, are best solutions to possible design changes. While most companies try to promote loyalty and compatibility of older things from their system, it may be an Achille's Heel of sorts. True the new Hassy 28 does not work on older Hasselblads. It was designed for the new capabilities of the newer system. While none of us like the thought of replacing glass, we sometimes fail to see some of the shortcomings of older system designs that were never built with some of the newer technology in mind. This causes the camera makers to constantly hamstring themselves with some design issues for compatibility that may actually be not so great.
Bottom line from my perspective is that nearly all cameras/systems today can more than get the job done. Some of those jobs do require focal plane shutters, while others are better handled with leaf shutters. While I too have been waiting, wishing, hoping for a single camera solution, I am beginning to think that is a ways off, and everything today is more of a compromise to accommodate older designs for compatibility. My thoughts are go with the camera/system/lenses that best serves your primary needs. Add a different camera/system/lens to meet the other needs as they demand. No one system is perfect at this point. I keep leaning toward Hasselblad myself, but also think about having a Phase for the other needs. I remain unconvinced that Phase/Mamiya will produce a lot of the dual use lenses, and I do not see them being all that cheap either. Hope I am wrong. You can either wait for that line-up to eventually be designed and released, or you can start in one system now and change/add as your needs dictate. If high shutter speeds are more important the higher sync speeds, go that route. If you shoot a lot of flash and studio stuff, the leaf shutter may be the better choice. Getting it all in one package is still not there, despite what Phase keeps promising. And Hasselblad probably still has a lot of new tricks coming ahead also, but not there now without multiple bodies coming into play.
The ONE camera does not yet exist in any line.
LJ
The fact is that there are needs for both focal plane and leaf shutter systems. Not an easy task to achieve in any one camera or system.....so far. Phase, touting the always coming leaf shutter lenses, and folks dumping on Hasselblad for constant forward motion (progress?) in their designs and offerings. Personally, if your work is as diverse and demanding as expressed, then both systems may be the ticket. If, on the other hand, like a lot of us, you are seeking a one camera/system solution, well, that really does not yet exist.
I find it hard to believe that lenses designed several years ago, before newer technology requirements, are best solutions to possible design changes. While most companies try to promote loyalty and compatibility of older things from their system, it may be an Achille's Heel of sorts. True the new Hassy 28 does not work on older Hasselblads. It was designed for the new capabilities of the newer system. While none of us like the thought of replacing glass, we sometimes fail to see some of the shortcomings of older system designs that were never built with some of the newer technology in mind. This causes the camera makers to constantly hamstring themselves with some design issues for compatibility that may actually be not so great.
Bottom line from my perspective is that nearly all cameras/systems today can more than get the job done. Some of those jobs do require focal plane shutters, while others are better handled with leaf shutters. While I too have been waiting, wishing, hoping for a single camera solution, I am beginning to think that is a ways off, and everything today is more of a compromise to accommodate older designs for compatibility. My thoughts are go with the camera/system/lenses that best serves your primary needs. Add a different camera/system/lens to meet the other needs as they demand. No one system is perfect at this point. I keep leaning toward Hasselblad myself, but also think about having a Phase for the other needs. I remain unconvinced that Phase/Mamiya will produce a lot of the dual use lenses, and I do not see them being all that cheap either. Hope I am wrong. You can either wait for that line-up to eventually be designed and released, or you can start in one system now and change/add as your needs dictate. If high shutter speeds are more important the higher sync speeds, go that route. If you shoot a lot of flash and studio stuff, the leaf shutter may be the better choice. Getting it all in one package is still not there, despite what Phase keeps promising. And Hasselblad probably still has a lot of new tricks coming ahead also, but not there now without multiple bodies coming into play.
The ONE camera does not yet exist in any line.
LJ
It sure doesn't...
And at present, the cheapest 2-camera solution is a Mamyia AFD and an RZD with AFD adapter plate. HOWEVER, that cheapest solution may also be the best for now.
With the above RZ/AFD combo you get WLF in both orientations just like the Rollei/Sinar/Leaf AFi. Here the Hassy H is horizontal only with WLF which is all but useless for studio portraiture IMO. So bottom line is you really get a three-fer system with the two Mamiya bodies.
The ONLY limitations are the RZ is larger and heavier than the Rollei, but still totally hand-holdable; the max shutter speeds are limited to 1/400th instead of 1/1000th, which is not really a serious limitation for studio or even mixed outdoor strobe lighting; and the RZ is totally manual focus -- this may be the one deal breaker for some if they have to have WLF or high flash synch with AF...
Cheers,
You're probably right Doug ... but we can dream on for a Focal plane H body ... after all, they did it before with the V series.
Personally at this point of my lens line-up, I'd rather get a second focal plane shutter body than duplicate all my lenses with leaf shutters ... because in my work I need ALL the lenses to Leaf shutter, not just some. I also need a camera with a W/L finder.
BTW, Hasselblad didn't make me buy a whole camera, or a digital back, to purchase the H2F. Don't see why they would do that IF they came out with a Focal Plane body.
Graham Mitchell
New member
There's a significant difference between 1/400 and 1/1000: about 1 1/3 stops. The Canon with 1/250 is only 2/3 stops behind the RZ. Still it's a big improvement over the 645AF.
Btw, there is one other real limitation of the RZ: 50mm is the widest rectilinear lens.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Phasinhas. Yea just announced at Photokinia. Get one today:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
Sorry Jack, but I'll never carry a RZ around at an event or wedding, or many of the commercial location shoots I do ... love the camera ... in the studio, on a tripod.
I just want a focal plane shutter H camera and I'm a deliriously happy guy :thumbs:
But just like a lot of this speculative stuff ... it's vaporware.
There's just nothing out there to solve the dual need problem ... C645 focuses to slowly ... been there, done that. Didn't like the Mamiya AFD-II, been there, done that.
So for now it's the H camera as it is, which is more than fine. And for the few times I want that focal plane, super fast lenses gig, I just use the 203FE ... and wish they'd make a bigger sensor CFV.
If Sinar/Leaf/Rollei landed with a Focal Plane Hy6 body that also worked with their Leaf shutter AF lenses like the 203FE does with CF/CFi and CFE lenses set on F ... I'd swap out from Hasselblad so fast Linda Blair's head would spin
T
TMARK
Guest
If you are buying all new PQS lenses you get 1/1000 sync, but then you would be dropping $16k USD on three lenses. Most of the used lenses that are reasonably priced are PQ lenses which sync at 1/500. In reality, unless you drop alot of money or rent lenses, you will be working with the PQ lenses at 1/500, which is better than teh RZ's 1/400, but not by much.
I love the Hy6 and the 6008, but the scarcity of used lenses and the price of the new lenses put me off.
Yes, but remember this is a 2-body kit, and the widest rectilinear lens for the AFD is a 28.
Also just curious since you mentioned it, what is the widest rectilinear AF lens for the Rollei?
David Klepacki
New member
I agree with Guy's assessment. I also find the focal plane shutter to be more than adequate. Lenses without leaf shutters tend to be somewhat smaller and lighter in weight, a little faster, and can allow significantly closer focusing distances. In addition, if a lens shutter fails you immediately lose the use of the lens; any shutter failures on a focal pane body would allow you to swap out the body and keep using the lens.
As for flash sync, in the studio you may find it more convenient to not use any strobes and use only hot lighting. In other cases with strong ambient light (e.g., outdoor fill flash) and where you would need a 1/500 flash sync, you can use a 2-stop ND filter to bring down the sync speed to 1/125.
As for flash sync, in the studio you may find it more convenient to not use any strobes and use only hot lighting. In other cases with strong ambient light (e.g., outdoor fill flash) and where you would need a 1/500 flash sync, you can use a 2-stop ND filter to bring down the sync speed to 1/125.
Graham Mitchell
New member
The problem with that idea is that you are normally shooting people with this mixed light setup, and so you need to constantly focus and use the viewfinder. An ND filter makes that difficult or could even stop AF from working completely.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
His bigger issue is stopping action even in bright light with boats and cars i think it was .He is going to need a fast shutter 1/500 is going to be a real test on him to stop motion. Reason I said look at his EXIF data and see where he is at. I am looking specifically at his situation and not in general terms. We good argue all day between leaf and focal plane granted but looking at what he has to deal with than i think we need to look more at the speed factor even though some of his other work may need to be adjusted differently. Like pick the poison that is less deadly to you.
David Klepacki
New member
Yes, I can see that. If you are more dependent on AF, then this might prove difficult for you. I have never had any problems though, and I use this technique with wide aperture outdoor portraits with plenty of light still coming through the viewfinder, at least for me. Everyone is different, so the best is to test things out and go with what works best for you.