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Thread: a few H3D questions ?

  1. #1
    JackieS
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    a few H3D questions ?

    hiya

    This seems to be a great place for MF digital so here goes... stumbled upon it through a google search, hope you can help.

    A bit of background first. At work I shoot with a Leica M8 system (mainly car photography). I love the results I get and don't intend getting rid of this one system. BUT, I do require a backup camera and although I was initally going to go straight for a 2nd M8 my first thoughts were to instead get a DSLR to give myself a broader bag of tools and ultimately more power and flexibility. When I looked at DSLRs it seemed to me silly not to go for the 1ds MKiii. I don't need super speed but the large sensor and resolution appeals greatly. I was hoping for a larger resolution M8 at photokina but that does not look like its happening.

    Then my thinking was, well, if you are going for an 1ds MKiii, why not size down the leica gear a little by selling one or two lenses (I have too many really) to fund the H3D 31 which is at such a great price at the moment.

    One day I hope to make the jump from editorial to comercial so the H3D would cover that when I come to it and in the meantime it will provide superior quality for double page hero shots that I work on and potentially more of a lure for future clients. Also, I actually really dislike the 35mm aspect ratio and I get on with 654 or 6x6 much better and feel my compositions excel at these sizes. And generally, I just don't like large DSLRs and am not a canon fan either.

    So the question is.... for 18x12 prints would I notice any difference with the H3D 31 over an M8 or indeed the 1ds MKiii ? Will my clients be happier ? I also sometimes do a lot of post on my pictures, so thats multilayered compositing, some extreme grades, blurring and all sorts of stuff and often the M8 files start to show the cracks and I end up having to degrain and clean the picture up a bit. My thinking is that the H3D files would have far greater dynamic latitude and could be graded and altered with far less risk of introducing noise or artefacts.

    Finally, how much does the crop factor affect the framing on the 31 ? Is the amount of picture you lose quite noticeable. I actually really dislike the mismatch of perspective to coverage on sensor crop cameras and it was one thing I was also hoping to eradicate with my backup or 2nd system. I was therefore a bit miffed when I learnt that the H3D 31 has a crop but financially I could not stretch to a 39MP.

    would apreciate any help

    regards

  2. #2
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    I have the H3DII-31 and the M8. I print using Epson R2400 (A3). But we differ in the type of photos. I try to documentate ancient historical places in Turkey also museum shots, and do also a lot of landscape photographs. I end up printing about 50 photos per week average.

    M8 was my favorite camera until I bought the Hasselblad. Although nothing can replace my D300+28 F1.4 in the dim museum shots. (Figurines etc).

    Hasselblad made a lot of difference. Theoretically, you think there will be no difference in a A3 print, but there is a lot.

    1. DR makes a lot of difference. No highlight or shadow detail is lost to start with. So you can postprocess the photo as you like, with quite large margins on both side. (unless wrongly exposed of course).

    2. Hasselblad colors are much much more precise (IMO). I used to love M8 for its colors, but now I just can't compare the two.

    3. As with Leica, MF just has its own character, difficult to describe, but at least like more analog than digital. Extra pixels help a lot in this regard too. I can't say that lenses are better than the best lenses in 35mm (like comparing apples with oranges, while I can say I prefer oranges), but I can say that the results with the new HC lenses shine. (As well as my old Tessar lenses when used with the "quite expensive" adaptor.)

    Coming to the crop factor. Both M8 and H3DII-31 have the same multiplier of 1.3. The 39 DB has only 1.1, and that may make a difference also in confined areas.

    On the other hand the MF noise is far less than the M8 noise. I can shoot at 400 ISO with good DR and noise. At 800, in this size of prints, it may still be used. With M8, noise, although better than many DSLR's, is just not like the MF noise.

    For candid shots, street shots, for taking pictures in holy areas like Church/mosque internal shots Leica is still my favorite camera. With a small lens, black body, no one even notices you. With Hasselblad and 180mm Tessar, I was even questioned briefly by security when photographing the Marina.

    Image quality= H3DII
    Convenience= M8

    Seyhun

    P.S. MF also has some problems, especially some firmware problems IMO. If we had half of it in Nikon D300, all the forums would have gone wild. In the MF forums, things are dealt in a better way.



    Quote Originally Posted by JackieS View Post
    hiya

    This seems to be a great place for MF digital so here goes... stumbled upon it through a google search, hope you can help.

    A bit of background first. At work I shoot with a Leica M8 system (mainly car photography). I love the results I get and don't intend getting rid of this one system. BUT, I do require a backup camera and although I was initally going to go straight for a 2nd M8 my first thoughts were to instead get a DSLR to give myself a broader bag of tools and ultimately more power and flexibility. When I looked at DSLRs it seemed to me silly not to go for the 1ds MKiii. I don't need super speed but the large sensor and resolution appeals greatly. I was hoping for a larger resolution M8 at photokina but that does not look like its happening.

    Then my thinking was, well, if you are going for an 1ds MKiii, why not size down the leica gear a little by selling one or two lenses (I have too many really) to fund the H3D 31 which is at such a great price at the moment.

    One day I hope to make the jump from editorial to comercial so the H3D would cover that when I come to it and in the meantime it will provide superior quality for double page hero shots that I work on and potentially more of a lure for future clients. Also, I actually really dislike the 35mm aspect ratio and I get on with 654 or 6x6 much better and feel my compositions excel at these sizes. And generally, I just don't like large DSLRs and am not a canon fan either.

    So the question is.... for 18x12 prints would I notice any difference with the H3D 31 over an M8 or indeed the 1ds MKiii ? Will my clients be happier ? I also sometimes do a lot of post on my pictures, so thats multilayered compositing, some extreme grades, blurring and all sorts of stuff and often the M8 files start to show the cracks and I end up having to degrain and clean the picture up a bit. My thinking is that the H3D files would have far greater dynamic latitude and could be graded and altered with far less risk of introducing noise or artefacts.

    Finally, how much does the crop factor affect the framing on the 31 ? Is the amount of picture you lose quite noticeable. I actually really dislike the mismatch of perspective to coverage on sensor crop cameras and it was one thing I was also hoping to eradicate with my backup or 2nd system. I was therefore a bit miffed when I learnt that the H3D 31 has a crop but financially I could not stretch to a 39MP.

    would apreciate any help

    regards
    H3DII-31, 5DII, M8, NEX-3 and Camera collection
    http://seyhun.com
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  3. #3
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    I have the Hasselblad H3DII-31 and canon 1DsmkIII and 5D with a whole variety of lenses. I find I use my canon gear much less often and have considered selling much of it from time to time. I agree with Seyhun. The Canon offers much quicker AF where needed as in fast action or high end telephoto work, it is hard to beat. However, since it sounds like your cars are not moving should not be an issue. The canon 1DsmkIII with all lenses and accessories ends up being similar in weight. I prefer to use a tripod with my hasselblad but easily handheld.THe high iso images are incredibly clean with incredible detail.

    I will say that I did compare my 1DsmkIII and Hassy H3DII-31 for resolution/detail and did not see huge differences when using the best lenses for the canon that included the leica 100mm apo macro. The dynamic range, smooth tonal transitions obtained with the hassy is clearly a reason why I like the system so much.

    THe 28mm HC lens is outstanding with little distortion and great edge to edge sharpness. I shoot primarily with the 28mm and 50 to 110mm zoom, and 120mm macro. My other favorite is the 210mm HC. The 100mm prime is also an outstanding lens and with the 1.7x TC is as good and fast as their 150mm prime. Anyway, good luck in deciding. Mark

  4. #4
    Super Duper
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    Jackie, you are spot on ... the aspect ratio is far more important than the crop factor. The H3D-II/31 retains the same "more useful" crop ratio as a 22 and 39 meg versons compared to 35mm ... so it isn't quite the same as the M8's 1.3X, which gets trimmed off even more whan making standard sized prints.

    I have a M8, but sold the second one and a lens, and just sold an entire Canon 1DsMKIII system ... there is NO comparison in IQ from these choices compared to the H3D-II/31.

    I also have a H3D-II/39 ... and its digital back is now religated to ISO 50 use on a Rollei Xact view camera with Digitar lenses since getting the H3D-II/31.

    The drawback of the 31 is that wides are not quite as wide with the 1.3X lens factor, but that's pretty much not an issue with the 28/4 unless you need really, really wide angle capture. Frankly, the difference between the 31 and 39 are hard to detect ... and the 31 provides ISO to 800 (and supposedly 1600 soon with pending software/firmware upgrades.) Capture is also faster with the 31.

    I would not feel pressured concerning the "current promotional pricing." I believe that has been extended to Dec. 31st ... and I doubt that price will go up even then (depending on exchange rates and competitive response.)

    Hope this helps.

    -Marc

  5. #5
    JackieS
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    Thank you very much for all your responses. Lots to think about.

    I shoot car to car (H3d could just be handhled for this) but apart from that most of it is still (can be tripod) or with the camera on a dolly or a rig that only moves a few mph and very slowly.

    I think I will wait till photokina. The other natural pathway for me would be a 20+MP Leica R10 but there are only rumours at the moment and I also doubt such a system would materialise for quite some time even if Leica did announce such a thing.

    The rumours about Canon working on a 40-50mp sensor also sound interesting. I wonder how that would affect the market if a near future 1ds camera had 40+MP ? Mind you, I am sure that the price wouldn't be far off MFDBs by the time Canon released it onto the market.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    Quote Originally Posted by JackieS View Post
    Thank you very much for all your responses. Lots to think about.

    I shoot car to car (H3d could just be handhled for this) but apart from that most of it is still (can be tripod) or with the camera on a dolly or a rig that only moves a few mph and very slowly.

    I think I will wait till photokina. The other natural pathway for me would be a 20+MP Leica R10 but there are only rumours at the moment and I also doubt such a system would materialise for quite some time even if Leica did announce such a thing.

    The rumours about Canon working on a 40-50mp sensor also sound interesting. I wonder how that would affect the market if a near future 1ds camera had 40+MP ? Mind you, I am sure that the price wouldn't be far off MFDBs by the time Canon released it onto the market.
    Well, unless they come out with a MF camera, it doesn't matter what they try to stuff into a 35mm frame ... it'll aways be trumped by a MF back IMHO.

    I have done that IQ comparison many times already ... a 16 meg 1DsMKII verses a 16 meg Digital back ... Canon lost by a wide margin.

    Canon 22 meg 1DsMKIII lost even worse to a 22 meg back. IMO, having owned both the MKII and MKIII Canons, the MKII was the better camera as far as IQ was concerned ... so more megs stuffed into a small sensor isn't necessarily a good thing.

    Size matters.

    Waiting for Photokina is a good idea.

  7. #7
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    Re: a few H3D questions ?

    I agree with Marc on the camera front wait for Photokinia to see what comes out and also what prices may go down on some camera's. Anything else like lighting and such i would not wait but there is some promise on the camera front. More coming from the MF folks and I would like to see what Leica announces and I am a beta tester for them and have no idea what is coming. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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