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Thread: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

  1. #101
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    +1 for Graham's comment.

    These responses from CI, has really generated interest in the Hasselblad announcement.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    thanks for the slugfest:::: this really motivates me to turn off my computer and go make photos

    LoweP -

    Sorry we put you through this to get you motivated. I hope your next motivation is more pleasant and constructive.

    Everyone - I am sorry for Marc and I spiraling out of control. Unnecessary, and I think in both cases, we ended up presenting ourselves in a way that doesn't reflect who we really are, and doesn't benefit the greater good of this forum.

    Marc and I have known each other for years in a very positive way, and we will work this out offline and spare everybody so things get back to normal, and everyone's valuable time isn't wasted.

    Back to your normal - and hopefully more relevant - programming.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
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  3. #103
    Senior Member David Schneider's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post

    Everyone - I am sorry for Marc and I spiraling out of control. Unnecessary, and I think in both cases, we ended up presenting ourselves in a way that doesn't reflect who we really are, and doesn't benefit the greater good of this forum.
    Lyndon Johnson said something like "When two people agree on everything only one of them is doing the thinking." So I kind of enjoy the debate. Certainly more entertaining than the Republican debates.

    Just wanted to add that there's certainly a vocal minority of photographers who are quite technically oriented and constantly purchasing gear that gives them the ultimate quality for their images. I have learned from you all because I'm not one of you.

    I'm part of the market segment that just wants better quality images (especially for my clients who want large wall portraits, but also for that inner photographer/craftsman in me) than I can get from a dslr. That means I'm in the "lower" pricing tier of the mf market (meaning my mf gear is worth more than 2 out of the 3 cars in my family). That's a pretty large potential market and we don't really care all that much what brand of camera gets us that better quality because all mf brands will. If this new Hassie X body helps out in the "low" end, I'm for it. If it means some people with an H4d move to it and there's a few well priced used H4d's available, I'm for it. If not, I'm not sure I care too much and only follow to keep up with what's happening in the industry.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    This decison of Hasselblad's has no bearing on me personally (though in the long term, it may help with the resale value of my IQ back) as I sold out of my 20+ year use of Hasselblad and went with a DF and Alpa system a year or so a go.
    However, many of my peers are heavily invested in Blad glass and will be glad for the existence of this option. Hooray to Hasselblad.
    What I don't understand is why existing H3 and H4 customers remain locked out. It would appear that the "unlock" is a firmware tweak, and if this is true, then I'd imagine there's going to be some pretty pissed off H3 and H4 users out there as they get to back upgrade time. I just don't understand why any company would want to leave that bitter taste in the mouth of its existing customers. Kinda like being second-class citizens in the nation of Hasselblad users.
    Siebel
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    What I don't understand is why existing H3 and H4 customers remain locked out. It would appear that the "unlock" is a firmware tweak, and if this is true, then I'd imagine there's going to be some pretty pissed off H3 and H4 users out there as they get to back upgrade time. I just don't understand why any company would want to leave that bitter taste in the mouth of its existing customers. Kinda like being second-class citizens in the nation of Hasselblad users.
    Have they come out and stated this? I didn't think there had been an official announcement yet, has there?

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    This decison of Hasselblad's has no bearing on me personally (though in the long term, it may help with the resale value of my IQ back) as I sold out of my 20+ year use of Hasselblad and went with a DF and Alpa system a year or so a go.
    However, many of my peers are heavily invested in Blad glass and will be glad for the existence of this option. Hooray to Hasselblad.
    What I don't understand is why existing H3 and H4 customers remain locked out. It would appear that the "unlock" is a firmware tweak, and if this is true, then I'd imagine there's going to be some pretty pissed off H3 and H4 users out there as they get to back upgrade time. I just don't understand why any company would want to leave that bitter taste in the mouth of its existing customers. Kinda like being second-class citizens in the nation of Hasselblad users.
    Hey Bryan,

    There is no benefit to an H4D owner wanting to buy an H4x body.

    H4D and H3D owners have always had access to buying a spare body for backup.

    David

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    For David. Please can I just clarify one thing. I have a H3 39 and the one thing I would really like to have is true focus. Can I get a H4X and use my 39 back ?
    I understand that true focus will be available to other non H backs with the H4X body. Best Regards Martin

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hey Bryan,

    There is no benefit to an H4D owner wanting to buy an H4x body.

    H4D and H3D owners have always had access to buying a spare body for backup.

    David
    That fact isn't well known David, and it should also be said that it requires sending in your current kit to do it, at least that's how I understand it. It's not a matter of getting a second body and slapping your current back on it.

    Regarding the H4X, as a Hasselblad Owner, I'm going to have to disagree with you.

    Owners of a H3D or H3D-II have to upgrade the entire kit just to get the benefits of the H4D body ... where any Phase or Leaf user with a H1/2 can now do it. There are a lot of folks out there that are either satisfied with their H3D/H3D-II 31 and 39 backs, or can't hack a total kit upgrade financially, but would like the option to get the H4D benefits like TF.

    Plus, isn't the H3D and H3D-II out of production? Can an owner still purchase a spare H3D/H3D-II, and how much would that cost given that you have to send it in to be matched? Seems it would be prohibitive given that you aren't upgrading anything, just getting a spare older tech body as a back-up.

    Individual H4D owners may well be okay as is, but if a studio uses a couple of brands of backs like a H4D/40 and a H2 with a Phase One P65+ for example, it would seem advantageous to be able to use either back on a H4X ... like if the H4D body went down, or the P65+ went down.

    Personally, I think it's a mistake excluding loyal Hasselblad owners from this offering.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Hi Marc,

    Thanks for the comments. Ill put it back to the management so they are aware.

    As it stands now, the H4x is designed as an upgrade for existing H1/H2 owners to keep their bodies working well for them.

    Yes, you can still purchase additional bodies. Your existing system is sent in so both bodies have the same calibration, this is what you paid for afterall.

    The H3D platform is still a superior integrated system, even without the True Focus feature.

    Website is now live..

    http://www.hasselblad.com/H4x

    Have a look at the Q&A for more answers.

    David

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    David - introducing true focus and not offering H3D11-39 owners the ability to upgrade their body and keep their backs was a seriously poor decision. Now this new policy of friendliness to non Hasselblad back owners just rubs salt into the wounds my friend.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hi Marc,

    Thanks for the comments. Ill put it back to the management so they are aware.

    As it stands now, the H4x is designed as an upgrade for existing H1/H2 owners to keep their bodies working well for them.

    Yes, you can still purchase additional bodies. Your existing system is sent in so both bodies have the same calibration, this is what you paid for afterall.

    The H3D platform is still a superior integrated system, even without the True Focus feature.

    Website is now live..

    http://www.hasselblad.com/H4x

    Have a look at the Q&A for more answers.

    David
    I am irritated that my gently used two-year-old H2F has probably plummeted in resale value due to the H4x announcement. It doesn't appear Hassey is going to continue the CF line, and I don't want to trade in my H2F plus $4-5K to be able to upgrade my digital back one or two years down the road.
    Bob Rosinsky
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    www.topdogimaging.net

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hey Bryan,

    There is no benefit to an H4D owner wanting to buy an H4x body.

    H4D and H3D owners have always had access to buying a spare body for backup.

    David
    That's all very sweet David, but what about those who expect to update and upgrade their backs regularly?
    Since starting with MFDB back in 1995, I've upgraded my back about once every 3.5 years. Each time I do that, I go to the market and see what I consider the best available at the time. I've had LEAF, Phase One and Kodak backs at various points, always on Blads until recently. Many of my peers, who are heavily invested in Blad glass and would like to stay with it, are at the point where they are ready to replace their backs with the one I currently use, but alas, they have H3 and H4 bodies.
    From a business owners perspective, the back and the glass is the biggest factor, both in cost and in impact on image quality.
    Unless you are about to unveil some new backs to directly compete with or surpass the current state-of-the -art backs, this is going to be a bone of contention for some.
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
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  13. #113
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Hey Bryan,

    There is no benefit to an H4D owner wanting to buy an H4x body.
    Of course there is - it means they can run down to the local rental shop to hire a Phase back as a backup, if their Hasselblad back goes down. Or they might want to upgrade to an IQ180 or some other back, or they might appreciate getting more for their camera when they sell it (an open camera should be worth more than a closed one). I will wait for official announcement, but it seems bizarre that existing users would be penalized like this.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    That's all very sweet David, but what about those who expect to update and upgrade their backs regularly?
    Since starting with MFDB back in 1995, I've upgraded my back about once every 3.5 years. Each time I do that, I go to the market and see what I consider the best available at the time. I've had LEAF, Phase One and Kodak backs at various points, always on Blads until recently. Many of my peers, who are heavily invested in Blad glass and would like to stay with it, are at the point where they are ready to replace their backs with the one I currently use, but alas, they have H3 and H4 bodies.
    From a business owners perspective, the back and the glass is the biggest factor, both in cost and in impact on image quality.
    Unless you are about to unveil some new backs to directly compete with or surpass the current state-of-the -art backs, this is going to be a bone of contention for some.
    Bryan,

    There is no such thing as an H3 or H4 body. The H3D and H4D were sold as complete camera systems.

    We can also argue wether we or a competitor already have the "state of the art offering" but that has also been discussed to death already.

    I could of course assume you mean the H4D200MS?

    David

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Of course there is - it means they can run down to the local rental shop to hire a Phase back as a backup, if their Hasselblad back goes down. Or they might want to upgrade to an IQ180 or some other back, or they might appreciate getting more for their camera when they sell it (an open camera should be worth more than a closed one). I will wait for official announcement, but it seems bizarre that existing users would be penalized like this.
    Graham,

    They could also run down to the rental shop and hire an H4D(!) or a Phase 645DF and IQ?

    If they do want to upgrade to IQ180 or shock horror(!) another Hasselblad product the upgrade programs from both our companies would still allow that. It really is not an influence.

    What we are talking about here is an upgrade path for our existing H1/H2 users.

    There are also similar paths for existing H1/2/3/4D users as well.

    David

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobDavid View Post
    I am irritated that my gently used two-year-old H2F has probably plummeted in resale value due to the H4x announcement. It doesn't appear Hassey is going to continue the CF line, and I don't want to trade in my H2F plus $4-5K to be able to upgrade my digital back one or two years down the road.

    Care to comment, David Grover?
    Bob Rosinsky
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    www.topdogimaging.net

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Bryan,

    There is no such thing as an H3 or H4 body. The H3D and H4D were sold as complete camera systems.

    We can also argue wether we or a competitor already have the "state of the art offering" but that has also been discussed to death already.

    I could of course assume you mean the H4D200MS?

    David
    Do you really want to open this can of worms? I had the grace not to mention the name of the back I consider the best for the type of work I do.

    Yes, the H4D200MS is a fabulous back if you are happy to shoot nothing that moves even microscopically. This is an awesome tool for some kinds of imaging. As a general purpose single capture back? No comment.

    I'd say a H4x with an IQ180 on the back looks pretty state-of -the-art though. Good on you Hasselblad.
    But then that's just one measly career photographers view and I've already said I don't count as I use a DF platform and an ALPA. I'm very interested in what the users of those 'complete MF camera systems' think. One of them told me this morning that for him the acronym "MF" in the previous sentence represents two very different words these days.

    There is no such thing as a H3 or H4 body? I'm sure that's cold comfort to all your customers out there running Complete H3 and H4 Camera Systems. Naturally, they were all told about the upgrade ramifications of the Completeness of these systems at the time of purchase, right?
    Siebel
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  18. #118
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    There are also similar paths for existing H1/2/3/4D users as well.
    Perhaps I'm missing something so I'd appreciate if you could clarify this. I assumed (as many have, I think) that the H4x is basically an H4 camera with different firmware which allows the use of third party backs. Is that not the case? If it is the case, then why would any H4 owner trade in his camera for an H4x rather than just updating the firmware?

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    Perhaps I'm missing something so I'd appreciate if you could clarify this. I assumed (as many have, I think) that the H4x is basically an H4 camera with different firmware which allows the use of third party backs. Is that not the case? If it is the case, then why would any H4 owner trade in his camera for an H4x rather than just updating the firmware?
    An H4 Owner would not trade in their H4 Graham.

    The H4x is for H1/2 customers.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Graham,


    There are also similar paths for existing H1/2/3/4D users as well.

    David
    Really David? I'm sure my dear friend Tareq , a member here and an up-and-coming professional in the United Arab Emirates, would love to hear about it. He's passionate about his gear and loves to be up to date.

    He'd love to hear about the upgrade path for his H4D60......

    Please share...
    Siebel
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    I'm sorry Bryan, until the tone becomes friendlier and professional I'm taking myself out of this discussion.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    An H4 Owner would not trade in their H4 Graham.

    The H4x is for H1/2 customers.
    Graham, I think David means to say that a H4 (and H3) owner CANNOT trade in.

    Heaven forbid that they should want a better back as well.

    PANIC!
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Okay folks lets not bite the messenger here. It looks like it is what it is on this announcement but you never know how far the door may open in the future. Companies do need to think about there own protection in the market something we as users don't normally understand.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    I'm sorry Bryan, until the tone becomes friendlier and professional I'm taking myself out of this discussion.
    Please don't sulk, David. You're a bigger man than that, I'm sure. I'll admit I'm being cheeky, but it's just the Australian Larrikin in me.

    I think that these are serious questions, that all ribbing aside, Hasselblad needs to answer. If I don't ask them, sure as I'm wearing green undies right now, somebody will.

    There are many, many users out there who would like to know.

    Please come out and play. I promise I'll be nice.
    Siebel
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Ok, let's play your way.....

    Here's some questions from one professional photographer :

    1. Is the H4x mechanically identical (or as nearly as dammit) to a H4D?

    2. Is the primary difference in the firmware? Note that nearly everyone I have spoken to thinks it is.

    3. If it is merely a firmware update that will allow third party backs to be used, then why are H3 and H4 users denied access to it?

    4. Is it possible that in jurisdictions such as Australia that have legislation such as the Trade Practices Act, this restriction could lead to litigation? (I am not taking the p*ss here. I was asked this exact question by a photographer from a major Brisbane studio)

    5. Will a H4D60 back (for example) work on a H4x?


    Cheers,
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    I was expecting members here would run around the bush with useless talk about H28mm and 35-90mm on IQ180 performance hahaha.. but I guess thats coming



    come on guys.. obviously, worst case scenario is if everyones friend wants/needs to upgrade he can sell their H4D and buy H4x and get back to normal..

    the same goes with H2F etc.. regardless of how many clicks you have on the camera.. there are people using Hy6 still and they love it.. you may ask why, its their own affair.. they know if they want to sell it, they will sell it practically at loss.. but thats their business since they pay the bills..

    what's important here is the fact that 80% of the industry is using H1/H2 cameras.. and who needs the proof let him run the marathon and do it himself..

    if you are happy with what you have or don't have funds, you won't need to change regardless..

    but for our industry with majority of H1/H2 users and others alike with multiple/backup cameras/DBs who like to have the best of all worlds.. H4x comes at perfect time..

    and most importantly, thats where the story begins.. just look at the LEAF/PhaseOne sales numbers a year from today..

  27. #127
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    An H4 Owner would not trade in their H4 Graham.

    The H4x is for H1/2 customers.
    Sorry, I'm still confused. You wrote earlier "There are also similar paths for existing H1/2/3/4D users as well" and then "The H4x is for H1/2 customers". Which is it?

  28. #128
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSK Rangefinder View Post
    if everyones friend wants/needs to upgrade he can sell their H4D and buy H4x and get back to normal..
    I'm not sure they can do that. It seems that the H4x is being offered only with a traded-in H1 or H2. Even if the H4D owner could buy an H4x, why should they pay thousands for what amounts to a firmware upgrade? I'm still waiting for a definitive answer on this.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    May I suggest we give David and Hasselblad just a little break? The company is in transition and it will take a while for management to formulate and understand what it wants to do. The key thing is that it appears there is a strategic decision to open the platform. The tactics are in flux and confusing - at the moment. I expect we will see clarity and sense over the next few months. In the meantime, Hasselblad employees will probably be quite open to constructive suggestions.

    Peter

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    does anyone know if the electrical connections between the bodies and backs varies between H1/2 and H3/4? there may be more than a firmware change.

    in the same vein, can you use a H back on the H4x?
    Last edited by jlm; 27th October 2011 at 13:59.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by cunim View Post
    May I suggest we give David and Hasselblad just a little break? The company is in transition and it will take a while for management to formulate and understand what it wants to do. The key thing is that it appears there is a strategic decision to open the platform. The tactics are in flux and confusing - at the moment. I expect we will see clarity and sense over the next few months. In the meantime, Hasselblad employees will probably be quite open to constructive suggestions.

    Peter
    I tend to agree . It looks like they are figuring out there game plan and this is the start of it but I agree there are some things that may not rub everyone just right at the moment.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I tend to agree . It looks like they are figuring out there game plan and this is the start of it but I agree there are some things that may not rub everyone just right at the moment.
    I agree there are some weird aspects to this program with the H4X, but I can never understand why the most dissatisfaction and, really, venom, about what Hasselblad does and does not do comes from those who don't use, and would not even consider using, their products.
    It's apparent that it was not Hasselblad's intent to make a 180 degree change in position to a "completely open" platform. They want to provide a compelling alternative to two groups of camera owners. Those who have H1/H2s with Phase or Leaf backs that want the best medium format camera platform available today that may otherwise switch to the Phase DF or the forthcoming "new" Phase camera. The other group is photographers who want a Phase back and do NOT want to use a Phase DF, they would prefer the H series, but are also reluctant to buy a used H1/H2 on ebay(even though this is a very seamless path). Smart move so far, except for the trade in thing, which seems crazy to me, but hey, it's no big deal. Plenty of used H1/H2 bodies available.
    So, why not let H3 and H4 owners buy an H4X body that can be used with their Hassy digital back and third party backs? It does not make much sense to me, and I am having trouble figuring it out. I guess they somehow view this as a way of limiting defections from the Hasselblad H3/H4 line to Phase or Leaf product. Perhaps they don't want to make it easy for H3/H4 owners to try Phase backs on their camera bodies. Who knows.

  33. #133
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    +1 for Howard's comment...
    Obviously, Hasselblad will adjust this offering and tweak the final product. From a business perspective, only allowing users of a single model access to the H4X does not seem prudent, and i'm sure Hasselblad will agree, but badgering David for details seems less useful. The rental market is big, and perhaps this is where the H4X is being targeted for now. There's also a large market for H1/H2, users who still shoot film, unwilling to upgrade to a digital only version. I welcome this decision, and look forward to a future purchase.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Are many people still shooting film? Amateurs perhaps but I don't know of any pros in my market doing so. perhaps in fine art?

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Proving that no good deed goes unpunished

    -Marc
    For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

    It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    +1 for Howard's comment...
    Obviously, Hasselblad will adjust this offering and tweak the final product. From a business perspective, only allowing users of a single model access to the H4X does not seem prudent, and i'm sure Hasselblad will agree, but badgering David for details seems less useful. The rental market is big, and perhaps this is where the H4X is being targeted for now. There's also a large market for H1/H2, users who still shoot film, unwilling to upgrade to a digital only version. I welcome this decision, and look forward to a future purchase.
    FYI, the H2F has been out for some time, it allows use of film or a CF/CF-II back and among other things allows use of the HCD lenses which the H1/2 did not. I know, I had one. The H4X expands on that by opening up the choice of backs and adds features like TF, APL.

    While the H4X is a nice camera, it doesn't have all the integrated features of the dedicated H4D camera.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

    It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.
    But they are not releasing a successor. That would imply a product for sale. To the public.

    The decision to offer a closed upgrade path looks very much like the result of internal politics. It rubs people the wrong way when a decision is made that cannot benefit anyone except for an executive trying to save face. What present or potential customer benefits from being unable to purchase an existing product?

    Matt

    Disclaimer: I have no digital Hasselblad cameras.
    Last edited by MGrayson; 27th October 2011 at 14:26.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick-T View Post
    For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

    It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.
    I think you have that slightly backwards. But outside of that I'm frankly a little tired of the BS here folks. Any more of these kinds of stupid comments on either side of the fence you will be looking at me in a whole diffrent light. It ends now this is NOT the GetDPI way and I let this go on from some silly *** comments about even insulting me. I'm done , I'm getting the complaints and I'm holding the buttons. Get the point.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    The H2F works with the HC28, HC35-90, and the HTS. So, my big question is: Shouldn't it be possible to enable the H2F to work with other backs through a firmware solution? True Focus is nice, but not relevant to the work that I do which is generally f/11 to f/16 with lenses ranging from 50mm to 120mm. I would love to hear from Nick T or David Grover on this.
    Bob Rosinsky
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    www.topdogimaging.net

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Okay, I read the announcement including the question and answer section.

    The H4X now provides a path to replace the out of production and aging H1/H2s while also providing some, but not all, of the more recent innovations like True Focus, Absolute Position lock, and use of the HCD lenses (28 and 35-90)

    It's just a simple move to support long time H users even though they use a competitive back.

    Proving that no good deed goes unpunished

    -Marc
    Two question, Marc. What is "Absolute Position Lock"? And, how effectively do the 28 and 35-90 work on an H4D-60? The Hasselblad Q and A is vague on the latter issue.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    I'm not sure they can do that. It seems that the H4x is being offered only with a traded-in H1 or H2. Even if the H4D owner could buy an H4x, why should they pay thousands for what amounts to a firmware upgrade? I'm still waiting for a definitive answer on this.
    Actually, that would be a firmware downgrade. The H4X has a different grip that's like the H1/H2 control configuration because some grip buttons on the H4D camera are for Hasselblad digital back specific integrated features not available on the H4X (for obvious reasons). The H4X also has a few things specific to using film backs if I understand it correctly.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    The 35-90 works just fine on the H4D 60. It gives a slightly clipped version giving about 54 MPs. However, you can elect to have and use the entire 60 MP capture in Phocus. Presumably you could manipulate the image to use the entire image or use the edges for creative effect. I have never had a reason to use the entire image. Not having the 28, I can't comment on it.

    I will leave it to Marc to explaining APL since he is much more eloquent than me.

    Greg

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    does anyone know if the electrical connections between the bodies and backs varies between H1/2 and H3/4? there may be more than a firmware change.

    in the same vein, can you use a H back on the H4x?
    Yes, as I understand it, the H4X grip control configuration is different from the H3D-II/H4. Don't know if the e-contacts are different, but they probably are.

    No, you aren't supposed to be able to interchange HD backs, although I've read where some have done it successfully ... something to do with calibrations between all of the components.

    -Marc

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by siebel View Post
    Ok, let's play your way.....

    Here's some questions from one professional photographer :

    1. Is the H4x mechanically identical (or as nearly as dammit) to a H4D?

    2. Is the primary difference in the firmware? Note that nearly everyone I have spoken to thinks it is.

    3. If it is merely a firmware update that will allow third party backs to be used, then why are H3 and H4 users denied access to it?

    4. Is it possible that in jurisdictions such as Australia that have legislation such as the Trade Practices Act, this restriction could lead to litigation? (I am not taking the p*ss here. I was asked this exact question by a photographer from a major Brisbane studio)

    5. Will a H4D60 back (for example) work on a H4x?


    Cheers,
    Okay, I read the announcement including the question and answer section.

    It isn't that difficult to get.

    There are a good number of H1, H2 and some H2F users out there, many with 3rd party backs, some with Hasselblad CF and CF-II backs (including Multi-Shots like I used to use on a H2F). They also have an investment in HC lenses. The H4X now provides a path to replace the out of production and aging H1/H2s while also providing some, but not all, of the more recent innovations like True Focus, Absolute Position lock, and use of the HCD lenses (28 and 35-90)

    It has nothing to do with upgrading backs or subjective comparisons of backs. It allows current users to continue on their chosen path with the back they currently have, or if they wish, a newer Leaf, Phase One back if they so choose. Most pros I know aren't as interested in changing the back they now have, but are concerned that if there are no more reliable H1/H2s in future that their considerable investment in lenses will have to sold/traded for a completely new system using a camera they don't prefer.

    As a H4D/60 user, David is right, I'm not even remotely interested in dropping another bundle to get a different back, and we'll just leave it at that.

    It's just a simple move to support long time H users even though they use a competitive back.

    Proving that no good deed goes unpunished

    -Marc

    P.S., regarding #5 ... No a H4D/60 back is not supposed to not work on a H4X ... the firmware and grip hardware are different. I do not know if the e-contacts are also different. For a spare body, the H4D/60 user can secure a second matched H4D body calibrated to his/her 60 back.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    One thing is clear to me after reading the many posts on this thread.....not being on the cutting edge of MF digital photography is a blessing in disguise. All I want from Santa this year is a 203FE to go with my CFV-16II.

    Long live those "Fat Pixels".

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 27th October 2011 at 16:31.

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Great post Gary. I miss those fat pixels. My CFV16 gave some spectacular results. We all like our systems and an attack on our judgement on them does raise some hackles.

    Greg Keeton

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mitchell View Post
    I'm not sure they can do that. It seems that the H4x is being offered only with a traded-in H1 or H2. Even if the H4D owner could buy an H4x, why should they pay thousands for what amounts to a firmware upgrade? I'm still waiting for a definitive answer on this.
    I'm sure down the road there will be other alternatives for H4D.. anyways, not sure if majority of H4D owners are or have any immediate attention to upgrade their cameras as much as 80% of industry used H1/H2 LEAF/PhaseOne owners do..

    as far as purchasing options, this is what I read.. (and I wrote this comment in similar thread before..) "The H4X provides a fantastic successor or an upgrade to your H1 or H2/HF body"

    I mean, this is the best MF news so far.. and perfect timing by Hasselblad

  48. #148
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    FYI, the H2F has been out for some time, it allows use of film or a CF/CF-II back and among other things allows use of the HCD lenses which the H1/2 did not. I know, I had one. The H4X expands on that by opening up the choice of backs and adds features like TF, APL.

    While the H4X is a nice camera, it doesn't have all the integrated features of the dedicated H4D camera.

    -Marc
    That's right, thanks Marc...
    I don't know much about the CF/CF-II DB's. I was close to purchasing an H2, but really liked the concept behind TF, and HCD lenses. For me, the H3/H4, is what I thought I needed when starting my MFD quest. You might remember my tirade when I purchased my first H model, now comes the H4x, the perfect solution for me.
    As far as film is concerned, almost every fine art photographer I know, shoots film. Their prints fetch amazing amounts of money, and they never shoot digital, or in color. in fact, they balk at the thought of digital as an art medium. It's the grain vs noise issue I guess. The point is, if there's a Hasselblad model that offers all the current features of the H4D, but can also be used with any DB and film, then that's a good thing.

  49. #149
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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    One thing is clear to me after reading the many posts on this thread.....not being on the cutting edge of MF digital photography is a blessing in disguise. All I want from Santa this year is a 203FE to go with my CFV-16II. Long live those "Fat Pixels".

    Gary
    Here, Here, Fat Pixels! I too am glad that I've taken a reprieve from the intoxicating, often foolish need to upgrade. Every new, "must have" feature that's released every so often, should be enough to realize the vicious cycle of planned obsolescence. Honestly, no matter how long you wait to make a decision, the next day after you commit, the latest and greatest is available for thousands less! The CFV DB's are amazing!

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    Re: Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    I agree there are some weird aspects to this program with the H4X, but I can never understand why the most dissatisfaction and, really, venom, about what Hasselblad does and does not do comes from those who don't use, and would not even consider using, their products.
    +1

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