The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

fotografz

Well-known member
Hmmm ... it is now rumored that Hasselblad may announce (as soon as next week) an alteration that will allow use of Phase One backs on the H4 Camera.

Sounds odd to me, but stranger things have happened.

Well see :confused:

-Marc
 

BANKER1

Member
Marc,

Yes, I heard that too. If true it sounds like a very bad strategy. Hassy goes back to becoming a camera maker (and a patsy for Phase) and gives up the responsibility to calibrate each back to the camera for optimum results. Phase is obviously working on a camera to compete with Hassy, in order to overcome the woefully inadequately camera (my opinion only) they currently use. But, who knows, maybe the new camera Phase will announce sometime in the near future prompted this decision (if true).

Greg
 

gme2815

Well-known member
Makes sense in so far as in the professional world is more or less ruled by H1s and H2s with Phase backs. Some rental houses I've talked to recently are thinking of replacing their aging Hassy's with Phase because the old Hassy's are costing them a bundle in repairs to keep going. This would let the rental houses keep all their glass and backs and just replace bodies, which is a much cheaper proposition...and, one would think, commercially viable. It would also give the rental world access to the 28mm lens...and keep them in the Hassy fold.
 

BANKER1

Member
Are you kidding me! Who says "the professional world is more or less ruled by H1s and H2s with Phase backs" Before I'd believe that I would have to see "accurate" sales figures for Phase and Hasselblad. David Grover will probably have a good laugh on that one. It always amazes me to see such statements bandied about on discussion forums. And the statement that "some rental houses I've talked to recently are thinking of replacing their aging Hassy's with Phase because the old Hassy's are costing them a bundle in repairs" seems rather odd to me. Having an aging H3D and lenses without one penny of repair cost makes that statement suspect. They are simply work horses.

Greg
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I have written 3 responses and deleted each one. Seriously think about this one it's actually not very good news for continued product development of Hassy backs. There maybe many sidebars to this good and bad. Also may depend on who's doing the talking here too. Granted I am a Phase shooter but care very much about the industry, this actually does not sound good. Its basically saying we give up trying to compete on the back level so we will continue as a camera and lens company open it up for Phase backs so we can still make revenue on camera's and lenses Sorry but that is how I read it. Or they are buying time until they come out with a new back that competes better to the IQ. It does open up a question mark here and I have to be honest this is how I am reading it and certainly could be completely wrong.

I should probably delete this one too but I'll take the heat.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
interesting - remember all the negative comments about Hassy being a closed system when they gave up to be open for other backs?
 

gme2815

Well-known member
Are you kidding me! Who says "the professional world is more or less ruled by H1s and H2s with Phase backs" Before I'd believe that I would have to see "accurate" sales figures for Phase and Hasselblad. David Grover will probably have a good laugh on that one. It always amazes me to see such statements bandied about on discussion forums. And the statement that "some rental houses I've talked to recently are thinking of replacing their aging Hassy's with Phase because the old Hassy's are costing them a bundle in repairs" seems rather odd to me. Having an aging H3D and lenses without one penny of repair cost makes that statement suspect. They are simply work horses.

Greg
You got me, Greg. I am totally kidding. :-]

I work in the film business in Los Angeles, on commercials mostly, so we often have stills going on at the same time. Phase backs and H1s and 2s are what usually show up. I have only seen a Phase One body and back used once and that was recently when a DP wanted to try out a IQ180 back and had the Phase rep out here swing by with one. Everyone was blown away, unbelievably good camera, but like I say, call any pro rental house and ask what gets rented most in medium format. It was at one of these rental houses out here in LA recently--researching my personal desire to jump to medium format--that they told me of their desire to switch to Phase One bodies for the reasons stated. Very tellingly, this particular house only had one Phase DF body for rental, but they had a slew of aging H1s and 2s. You could also ask someone like Calumet what they sell the most of and by how much.

So this is the way it is in Los Angeles in my end of the progressional world, Hasselblad rules the body and glass world, Phase is back king. So from my point of view, it makes sense that Hasselblad would open their system up again, but it's also a little scary because it also implies they might be getting out of producing digital backs which would shrink the market even more. It's also interesting that this rumor is floating around just after they open up to Lightroom...thus paving the way for, perhaps, exiting the software business, too. Just speculating, of course.
 

lance_schad

Workshop Member
I see it as a positive for the Medium Format Digital marketplace. It will give people more options on which to put a digital back on.

Phase One and Leaf(Mamiya) still make digital backs in the H mount and recently it has been a challenge to find bodies in good condition to place new systems on. In NY market the H mount is still very popular especially in the rental houses, although many are getting aggravated with repair costs, a good number of them are sticking on that platform because of their huge investment in the H platform (and have accumulated quite a few backups over the years) . Quite a few have started to add the DF platform to their rental pools and rental requests are increasing. There is another hurdle though beyond the investment to move to the DF platform it is getting the photographers to switch, there is a comfort factor on the H platform, it is the beast they know.

I guess Hasselblad may see this as not only a way to sell more hardware, but to keep the brand out there in the marketplace. Perhaps people will then be open to trying other Hasselblad products , such as backs in the future when it comes time to upgrade that part of the system.


Lance
 

fotografz

Well-known member
It's just a rumor, albeit from a reasonable source. Then again, maybe it's a ruse to stir the pot :rolleyes:

It does conjure up some interesting speculation depending on one's perspective.

Technically, I don't see it making a ton of sense, which is why it seems dubious. The H4 camera is so integrated to the back for many features I wonder how it would work in the same manner with other backs other than dumbing it down. To keep it fully viable, doesn't Phase have to cooperate and reverse engineer a H mount that works with the H4D? If Phase has a new camera on the horizon, why would they want to do that?

Let's push the speculation right over the top ... :ROTFL: Maybe Hasselblad has a totally new kit pending, and their new money bags owners want to maximize profits from the existing production capability?

Lets face it, the boundaries of MFD based on old tech are being reached requiring more and more technical band-aids, and the world of photography is changing rapidly. Old think is ripe for revolution. Just look at the landscape ... it's littered with the bones of once proud MF brands. Who would have thought that die-in-the-wool 35mm Leica would be in a larger format business? That Sony would be blazing the path toward the future of photography? Not Canon. Not Nikon. Sony! :wtf:

Apparently, the way to win the game is to change the game. How that plays out remains to be seen.

-Marc
 

pophoto

New member
It could ultimately be that Hasselblad wanting to remove that negativity to it being a closed system or at least coined that way. 'I think' a lot of people going to Hass will be using it with Hass back as a complete system, but then there's always that possibility to mix it up if people want to use a current back with Hass and its lenses, definitely more sales.

It's surely as Marc says, that how it plays out remains to be seen.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Now i can't speak but yes something is going on its not bad per say but helpful for some. End of day it makes sense and good for everyone in the industry. To me that is good. Let them make what announcements they need to make, Im zipping my mouth effective immediately.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Now i can't speak but yes something is going on its not bad per say but helpful for some. End of day it makes sense and good for everyone in the industry. To me that is good. Let them make what announcements they need to make, Im zipping my mouth effective immediately.
Guy, I assume you are not under an NDA, so why would you not pass along whatever speculation you have heard, with appropriate caveats about its reliability?
 

BANKER1

Member
Guy, Marc, and Graham each have valid points, and in the future we may find that all have a grain of truth in each prediction.

Greg
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Guy, I assume you are not under an NDA, so why would you not pass along whatever speculation you have heard, with appropriate caveats about its reliability?
Very simple as co owner of this forum it is simply not appropriate in my mind and certainly don't want to interfere in any way with their announcements. Also many companies are tied to this forum in the way we get press releases and information and don't share them until the time they want. Simply a matter of trust and respect. We all will speculate on rumors but when I get get credible information than I just shut up.

I have no NDA with anyone but I do respect the privacy of vital information from these companies if I get wind of something.
 

gme2815

Well-known member
Are you kidding me! Who says "the professional world is more or less ruled by H1s and H2s with Phase backs" Before I'd believe that I would have to see "accurate" sales figures for Phase and Hasselblad. David Grover will probably have a good laugh on that one. It always amazes me to see such statements bandied about on discussion forums. And the statement that "some rental houses I've talked to recently are thinking of replacing their aging Hassy's with Phase because the old Hassy's are costing them a bundle in repairs" seems rather odd to me. Having an aging H3D and lenses without one penny of repair cost makes that statement suspect. They are simply work horses.

Greg
Greg, I work in the business. Nothing about what I said is even remotely controversial. Read Lance's post, he backs up what you seem to find "odd." You're response to me, without knowing who I am or even giving me the benefit of the doubt, was both rude and uncalled for. I thought GetDPI was better than that.
 

BANKER1

Member
My bluntness is definitely one of my negative attributes, and maybe the printed version of my remarks could not express my tone and did seem rude. Sorry. That was not my intention. However, a lot of people do come to me if they want the straight unvarnished truth. But your statement about the professional world being ruled by Hassy bodies sporting Phase backs deserves at least some kind of actual data to support the claim. Every one has an opinion, and I respect yours (as an opinion) if you are in the industry. However, at times, one finds himself in sort of a bubble in terms of knowing what is happening outside their sphere of influence. In certain parts of the US Phase may dominate and other parts maybe another manufacturer. That also goes for certain parts of the world. My concern was only that a statement like yours deserves some kind of factual numbers to support it, or at the very least your position in the industry that gives you privy to such information.

I also apologize to the moderators if they feel my post was rude. In the future I will try to be more aware of the politeness of my responses.

Again, sorry.

Greg
 

gme2815

Well-known member
My bluntness is definitely one of my negative attributes, and maybe the printed version of my remarks could not express my tone and did seem rude. Sorry. That was not my intention. However, a lot of people do come to me if they want the straight unvarnished truth. But your statement about the professional world being ruled by Hassy bodies sporting Phase backs deserves at least some kind of actual data to support the claim. Every one has an opinion, and I respect yours (as an opinion) if you are in the industry. However, at times, one finds himself in sort of a bubble in terms of knowing what is happening outside their sphere of influence. In certain parts of the US Phase may dominate and other parts maybe another manufacturer. That also goes for certain parts of the world. My concern was only that a statement like yours deserves some kind of factual numbers to support it, or at the very least your position in the industry that gives you privy to such information.

I also apologize to the moderators if they feel my post was rude. In the future I will try to be more aware of the politeness of my responses.

Again, sorry.

Greg
Thanks, Greg. Appreciated.

My particular bubble is TV commercial production in Los Angeles. When we shoot stills, or when stills guys and gals tag along, or when I work on a stills shoot, it’s almost always with an H body, a Phase back, and Capture One on cart. At the rental houses, there are far more H1 and H2s and Phase backs in the racks than anything else. I’d suspect this is true in New York, in London, all the major markets, but I could be wrong about that.

Cheers...
 

cng

New member
Regarding the ubiquity of H1/H2's in rental houses and repair costs etc., it may be worth remembering that the original H1/H2's were very well-received by individual pros and rental houses. Considering these systems' age and amount of use (abuse?) they are subjected to when being rented out, it would be very conceivable that repair costs have been increasing with time.

Short version: It is conceivable that Greg and gme2815 are both right.

I hate commenting on rumours, but if it is true, then Hasseblad may be attempting to circumvent a move by rental houses to consider buying into other camera systems as their older H1/H2 bodies become uneconomical to maintain. Think about it: If the H1/H2's are becoming too expensive to hold and need to replaced, but they are being predominantly used with P1 digital backs, then the options (at the moment) will depend on what digital backs the rental houses will decide to stick with.
 
Top