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Hassey Rumor: Open Platform H4D.

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Okay folks lets not bite the messenger here. It looks like it is what it is on this announcement but you never know how far the door may open in the future. Companies do need to think about there own protection in the market something we as users don't normally understand.
 

goesbang

Member
I'm sorry Bryan, until the tone becomes friendlier and professional I'm taking myself out of this discussion.
Please don't sulk, David. You're a bigger man than that, I'm sure. I'll admit I'm being cheeky, but it's just the Australian Larrikin in me.

I think that these are serious questions, that all ribbing aside, Hasselblad needs to answer. If I don't ask them, sure as I'm wearing green undies right now, somebody will.

There are many, many users out there who would like to know.

Please come out and play. I promise I'll be nice.
 

goesbang

Member
Ok, let's play your way.....

Here's some questions from one professional photographer :

1. Is the H4x mechanically identical (or as nearly as dammit) to a H4D?

2. Is the primary difference in the firmware? Note that nearly everyone I have spoken to thinks it is.

3. If it is merely a firmware update that will allow third party backs to be used, then why are H3 and H4 users denied access to it?

4. Is it possible that in jurisdictions such as Australia that have legislation such as the Trade Practices Act, this restriction could lead to litigation? (I am not taking the p*ss here. I was asked this exact question by a photographer from a major Brisbane studio)

5. Will a H4D60 back (for example) work on a H4x?


Cheers,
 

JSK Rangefinder

New member
I was expecting members here would run around the bush with useless talk about H28mm and 35-90mm on IQ180 performance hahaha.. :banghead: but I guess thats coming :ROTFL:



come on guys.. obviously, worst case scenario is if everyones friend wants/needs to upgrade he can sell their H4D and buy H4x and get back to normal..

the same goes with H2F etc.. regardless of how many clicks you have on the camera.. there are people using Hy6 still and they love it.. you may ask why, its their own affair.. they know if they want to sell it, they will sell it practically at loss.. but thats their business since they pay the bills..

what's important here is the fact that 80% of the industry is using H1/H2 cameras.. and who needs the proof let him run the marathon and do it himself..

if you are happy with what you have or don't have funds, you won't need to change regardless..

but for our industry with majority of H1/H2 users and others alike with multiple/backup cameras/DBs who like to have the best of all worlds.. H4x comes at perfect time..

and most importantly, thats where the story begins.. just look at the LEAF/PhaseOne sales numbers a year from today..
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
if everyones friend wants/needs to upgrade he can sell their H4D and buy H4x and get back to normal..
I'm not sure they can do that. It seems that the H4x is being offered only with a traded-in H1 or H2. Even if the H4D owner could buy an H4x, why should they pay thousands for what amounts to a firmware upgrade? I'm still waiting for a definitive answer on this.
 

cunim

Well-known member
May I suggest we give David and Hasselblad just a little break? The company is in transition and it will take a while for management to formulate and understand what it wants to do. The key thing is that it appears there is a strategic decision to open the platform. The tactics are in flux and confusing - at the moment. I expect we will see clarity and sense over the next few months. In the meantime, Hasselblad employees will probably be quite open to constructive suggestions.

Peter
 

jlm

Workshop Member
does anyone know if the electrical connections between the bodies and backs varies between H1/2 and H3/4? there may be more than a firmware change.

in the same vein, can you use a H back on the H4x?
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
May I suggest we give David and Hasselblad just a little break? The company is in transition and it will take a while for management to formulate and understand what it wants to do. The key thing is that it appears there is a strategic decision to open the platform. The tactics are in flux and confusing - at the moment. I expect we will see clarity and sense over the next few months. In the meantime, Hasselblad employees will probably be quite open to constructive suggestions.

Peter
I tend to agree . It looks like they are figuring out there game plan and this is the start of it but I agree there are some things that may not rub everyone just right at the moment.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
I tend to agree . It looks like they are figuring out there game plan and this is the start of it but I agree there are some things that may not rub everyone just right at the moment.
I agree there are some weird aspects to this program with the H4X, but I can never understand why the most dissatisfaction and, really, venom, about what Hasselblad does and does not do comes from those who don't use, and would not even consider using, their products.
It's apparent that it was not Hasselblad's intent to make a 180 degree change in position to a "completely open" platform. They want to provide a compelling alternative to two groups of camera owners. Those who have H1/H2s with Phase or Leaf backs that want the best medium format camera platform available today that may otherwise switch to the Phase DF or the forthcoming "new" Phase camera. The other group is photographers who want a Phase back and do NOT want to use a Phase DF, they would prefer the H series, but are also reluctant to buy a used H1/H2 on ebay(even though this is a very seamless path). Smart move so far, except for the trade in thing, which seems crazy to me, but hey, it's no big deal. Plenty of used H1/H2 bodies available.
So, why not let H3 and H4 owners buy an H4X body that can be used with their Hassy digital back and third party backs? It does not make much sense to me, and I am having trouble figuring it out. I guess they somehow view this as a way of limiting defections from the Hasselblad H3/H4 line to Phase or Leaf product. Perhaps they don't want to make it easy for H3/H4 owners to try Phase backs on their camera bodies. Who knows.
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
+1 for Howard's comment...
Obviously, Hasselblad will adjust this offering and tweak the final product. From a business perspective, only allowing users of a single model access to the H4X does not seem prudent, and i'm sure Hasselblad will agree, but badgering David for details seems less useful. The rental market is big, and perhaps this is where the H4X is being targeted for now. There's also a large market for H1/H2, users who still shoot film, unwilling to upgrade to a digital only version. I welcome this decision, and look forward to a future purchase.
 

Nick-T

New member
Are many people still shooting film? Amateurs perhaps but I don't know of any pros in my market doing so. perhaps in fine art?
 

Nick-T

New member
Proving that no good deed goes unpunished :rolleyes:

-Marc
For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
+1 for Howard's comment...
Obviously, Hasselblad will adjust this offering and tweak the final product. From a business perspective, only allowing users of a single model access to the H4X does not seem prudent, and i'm sure Hasselblad will agree, but badgering David for details seems less useful. The rental market is big, and perhaps this is where the H4X is being targeted for now. There's also a large market for H1/H2, users who still shoot film, unwilling to upgrade to a digital only version. I welcome this decision, and look forward to a future purchase.
FYI, the H2F has been out for some time, it allows use of film or a CF/CF-II back and among other things allows use of the HCD lenses which the H1/2 did not. I know, I had one. The H4X expands on that by opening up the choice of backs and adds features like TF, APL.

While the H4X is a nice camera, it doesn't have all the integrated features of the dedicated H4D camera.

-Marc
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.
But they are not releasing a successor. That would imply a product for sale. To the public.

The decision to offer a closed upgrade path looks very much like the result of internal politics. It rubs people the wrong way when a decision is made that cannot benefit anyone except for an executive trying to save face. What present or potential customer benefits from being unable to purchase an existing product?

Matt

Disclaimer: I have no digital Hasselblad cameras.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
For some reason people love to hate Hasselblad, if the same level of vitriol that I see on forums whenever Hasselblad is mentioned, was directed at Phase, those posters would be very quickly banned.

It's ironic to see people who have long lambasted Hasselblad for being a closed system (silly as that label is) now attacking them for releasing an "open" successor to the H2.
I think you have that slightly backwards. But outside of that I'm frankly a little tired of the BS here folks. Any more of these kinds of stupid comments on either side of the fence you will be looking at me in a whole diffrent light. It ends now this is NOT the GetDPI way and I let this go on from some silly *** comments about even insulting me. I'm done , I'm getting the complaints and I'm holding the buttons. Get the point. :deadhorse:
 

BobDavid

New member
The H2F works with the HC28, HC35-90, and the HTS. So, my big question is: Shouldn't it be possible to enable the H2F to work with other backs through a firmware solution? True Focus is nice, but not relevant to the work that I do which is generally f/11 to f/16 with lenses ranging from 50mm to 120mm. I would love to hear from Nick T or David Grover on this.
 

hcubell

Well-known member
Okay, I read the announcement including the question and answer section.

The H4X now provides a path to replace the out of production and aging H1/H2s while also providing some, but not all, of the more recent innovations like True Focus, Absolute Position lock, and use of the HCD lenses (28 and 35-90)

It's just a simple move to support long time H users even though they use a competitive back.

Proving that no good deed goes unpunished :rolleyes:

-Marc
Two question, Marc. What is "Absolute Position Lock"? And, how effectively do the 28 and 35-90 work on an H4D-60? The Hasselblad Q and A is vague on the latter issue.
 
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