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Thread: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

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    Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    Hi guys, I happened across this the other day, and couldn't help but wonder if anyone has any experience with it. I know the older Hartblei lenses were a mixed bag, but I've heard the newest models have optics by Zeiss. Does anyone know if that's the case with this lens?
    --
    Gabe

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    That page seems to have been taken down now, or unobatainable, although I know what it was...... If it does not say 'Zeiss' then presumably it's not. Also, Hartblei are a Ukrainian operation and there is 45mm f3.5 Arsat/Volna made originally in the 'Arsenal' in Kiev.

    Hartblei are a good company but there are those who muscle in on their operations so make sure that it IS a Hartblei product and that you are dealing with them and not someone else.

    Also, this product seemed very expensive.......so beware!

    EDIT; the site for Hartblei 'HCam B1' list a 40mm f4 as their wide TS lens.... See also http://www.rickdenney.com/hartblei.htm

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    There's probably no one better to ask about Hartblei than Stefan Steib, who happens to be part of the GetDPI family here....

    ; ) ken

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    Hi Ken

    just back from Karlsruhe working through my stuff here.

    OK - the 45mm is NOT a Zeiss lens, this is the version we did for Phase One with the Arsat /Kiev glass. I never sold this, as I do the Zeiss line (also built in Kiev !) exclusively and Sergeji Naumenko and his son Vitalyi , my ukrainian partners do the sales for the "russian" versions exclusively via the

    http://www.hartblei.kiev.ua

    website (and Ebay), which is now the offical Hartblei factory (UA) website. This is also the address for all people who own russian superrotators and need support and repairs.

    Hartblei.com is SCAM ! It is hold hostage by a former partner- Mr. Pissarenko - they do not have any real Hartblei products anymore and are trying to fool people with cheap adapters , arax TS lenses and so called Hartblei Cameras (old kiev stock which never saw a hartblei technician).
    Very unfortunate situation, but slowly people understand whats going on , I have already posted this to several large fora and keep telling people.

    This is also the reason why I´m in the process of rebranding the Pro line of Hartblei/Zeiss and our HCam all under the name "HCam".

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan

    PS.: Today we had some time with the Nikon staff in Karlsruhe at PPL and we tried several Nikon lenses on the HCam. The 14-24 will definitely work with nearly no vignetting, but the butterfly shape shade has to be sawed off ! The quality is amazing. The old AF Nikon Micro Nikkor 60mm is also working (very well and sharp !) - whereas the new one (with the golden ring) is not covering the P45+. Work in Progress.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugleone View Post
    That page seems to have been taken down now, or unobatainable, although I know what it was...... If it does not say 'Zeiss' then presumably it's not. Also, Hartblei are a Ukrainian operation and there is 45mm f3.5 Arsat/Volna made originally in the 'Arsenal' in Kiev.

    Hartblei are a good company but there are those who muscle in on their operations so make sure that it IS a Hartblei product and that you are dealing with them and not someone else.

    Also, this product seemed very expensive.......so beware!

    EDIT; the site for Hartblei 'HCam B1' list a 40mm f4 as their wide TS lens.... See also http://www.rickdenney.com/hartblei.htm
    I remember when I bought my super-rotator there was a lot of hartblei, vs hartblei-kiew, vs whatever, some group in atlanta, Arsenal vs ukranian vs Czech manufacture of glass.
    The bottom line is that the one Michael Reichman reviewed vs the 30mm Hasselblad fisheye was the one I bought and also have the 30mm
    the one I have seems quite good, and cost I think 600-800?? cant remember.
    There was still a lot of variation and people here have some good copies (I think Jack) and some not so good, but rarely ;poor'

    Yes

    be careful. $2600 seems outrageous for non zeiss glass

    Victor

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    Can the Hartblei 45mm TS medium format version be adapted
    to a Leica S2 perhaps via the pentax adaptor, or is there a
    version for the leica S mount?

    Thanks

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    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    I have one of the non-Phase super rotators built before the phase deal. PM me if you are interested, I paid $1000 for mine and would sell it for that.

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    The Hartblei 45mm lens was made in the Mamiya 645 mount which could adapted to the S2. I'm not aware of a Pentax Mount. Don’t get too excited because the many of the Hartlei, including mine, won’t win any prizes.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    I think the 45mm is a totally misunderstood lens. It is originally something like a first generation (probably constructed in the 70ies) retrofocus superwideangle with an image circle sufficient for 6x9cm (in the 100 degr. range). It´s got a very strong field curvature and will do chromas on the outer parts if strongly shifted on digital backs.
    When we were talking to Phase we always were telling about this, Phase also said this is a creative lens - which- as there does not any other lenskit with such imagecircle and flange focal range exist, is unique anyway. Why do you think Pentax67, Rollei (PCS) and Mamiya (Shortbarrel TS) did not do anything similar ? They all stop at 75mm for their shift lenses. Hasselblad had to build the HTS adapter to get to 40mm focal lenght from their 28 - the complete price for this is triple of what the Hartblei costs now and several times more than what the old 45mm did cost.
    Comparing a flat field corrected lets say 80mm or 110mm with that 45mm is simply like comparing apples and peas. This does not work.

    But there are many people who have done beautiful images with these 45mm lenses. (including the shots that Phase did 2008 for the catalogue and the brochure).It is still the only existing solution in this range.
    If somebody wants to build something similar: go ahead and then we take a look at the pricetag.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 22nd October 2011 at 22:29.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    I had one a few years ago on a P45 back w/AFD body. Did OK for slight tilts around f8. Did terrible with even slight shifts. Lots of CA and softness. Might have had a bad copy but I sold it right away and went to focus stacking.

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    i'm dreaming of having my hassy 50 CFE adapted for tilt and shift on a DF...
    or a digaron 50 W, but i'm not shure there's enough free space between the sensor plane and the rear element of the lens to do it.

    So my RM3D is built for it !

    Iv'e just found a very good copy of the vintage 50 mamiya shift...

  12. #12
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    archivue

    I think the idea to expect a new real wideangle TS lens for a Medium Format Mirror reflex like the H4D or the 645DF has to be buried.
    The devellopment of such a new lens would cost anybody a fortune with comparably low numbers to be sold. Economic harakiri !

    This is the reason why we did it the other way round and have built the HCam, so you can now use your 50mm CFE and all other Hasselblad V and F lenses (with a Mirex or Zoerk adapter), our Hartblei Zeiss lenses and superwideangles down to 14mm, 17 and 24mm with TS movements for all backs.

    I think this is much more clever and economically efficient.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    Quote Originally Posted by smhoer View Post
    I had one a few years ago on a P45 back w/AFD body. Did OK for slight tilts around f8. Did terrible with even slight shifts. Lots of CA and softness. Might have had a bad copy but I sold it right away and went to focus stacking.
    THere is a BUNCH of sample to sample variation in these lenses. I have owned a total of 6, and of those only two were any good shifted more than a few mm. My current one I just received from Tim Ashley -- it is the best one I've seen, and does pretty well shifted to 10mm, corners are definitely softish, but usable. Tilts work as advertised. One interesting thing about these lenses is every one I've tested has one area somewhere in the IC that is a little smeary-soft. My latest one is no exception, doing that on the mid RH side. However it again is still usably sharp.

    The Mamiya 50 shift is a quantum level superior lens optically, but of course has no tilts -- if you do not need tilts, this would be my goto solution for some movement. However, it is labelled a 50 and is probably closer to 53mm actual focal, so is not as wide as the Super Rotator either...

    Bottom line is as Stefan has been saying, there are other superior solutions to be had if you want the ultimate IQ with tilts and shifts -- a tech camera with the latest tech lenses and the HCam are the current goto choices. However, for somebody who already owns a DSLR (other than Hassy H*) and wants a convenient or inexpensive solution to getting some movements with it, finding a decent copy of the Super Rotator is a worthwhile pursuit.

    *Hassy H shooters have the TS adapter which is also a 1.4x teleconverter, and if they already own the H 28, they have that as a net 45mm wide solution. From what I hear, it is quite good, though I have no first-hand experience with it.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Hartblei 45mm TS New Version?

    This was posted today on the Pentax medium format forums. A review of a just purchased Hartblei on the Pentax 645d.
    http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/p...ns-645d-4.html

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