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Thread: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

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    Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Relevant to the recent Hassy Rumors Thread

    It looks like news is coming sooner than later...

    Hasselblad H4X, Hasselblad Rejoins the Open Platform Community


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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Smart move, and better late than never.
    Jack
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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Thanks for posting that

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Saw that page earlier today.

    Also heard the official Hasselblad announcement is October 27 @ 6:00am EST.

    Will be interesting to see how the lenses that were designed for the H3D/H4D exclusively (28mm, 35-90mm) will work with other brand backs.

    I also wonder if the original HV90x will work since the HVD90x is optimized for the 36x48mm format.

    I guess time will tell.

    Good news is that the IQ-H mounts are shipping and customers seem to be satisfied with them.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    I've always strongly suspected that there was no technical reason the improvements of the H3/H4 required pairing the back to the body nor required actively disabling functionality when a third party back was placed on the body. True Focus, in the limited situations where it is useful, is a great idea, and the HC28mm and HC35-90mm will be welcome additions to the inventory of rental houses and photographers who use their H system with a Phase back. None of that required Hassy to become a closed system.

    The only technical improvement they gained by requiring body-back pairing was a decrease in tolerances for back/viewfinder focus registration. And this is something that is just as easily accomplished by lowering the acceptable tolerances in the body and back and offering free service to anyone who purchases and feels their registration is not spot on.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    This is very good news for those of us using Phase backs with H1/H2 bodies, but I have questions.
    Aside from a new body, are there any advantages of an H4X over an H1 beyond the True Focus technology and the ability to use the 28mm and the 35mm-90mm lenses?
    While the 28mm lens is very very good, the 35-90 zoom is really an exceptional optic. However, will these lenses perform up to their capabilities if you can't run the files through the Phocus software to apply the DAC lens corrections? Will Phase offer "comparable" lens corrections in Capture One? Finally, the 28mm and the 35-90 zoom were designed for the somewhat cropped sensor of the 39mp backs. What is the practical effect of using these lenses with a full frame back with the full frame viewfindwer?

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    This is very good news for those of us using Phase backs with H1/H2 bodies, but I have questions.
    Aside from a new body, are there any advantages of an H4X over an H1 beyond the True Focus technology and the ability to use the 28mm and the 35mm-90mm lenses?
    While the 28mm lens is very very good, the 35-90 zoom is really an exceptional optic. However, will these lenses perform up to their capabilities if you can't run the files through the Phocus software to apply the DAC lens corrections? Will Phase offer "comparable" lens corrections in Capture One? Finally, the 28mm and the 35-90 zoom were designed for the somewhat cropped sensor of the 39mp backs. What is the practical effect of using these lenses with a full frame back with the full frame viewfindwer?
    Note that Phase One already offers lens correction presets in Capture One for most Hassy lenses that were compatible with the H1/H2.

    One place to start to look for answers to those questions is to compare the lens corrections of the Hasselblad HC35mm in Capture One and in Phocus. Tell me if you see a meaningful difference :-).

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    They seem to have pulled the link, but the screen grab is still on our website.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Do you think they will make the H4x black to coordinate with the IQ H Mounts?


    L
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Be nice for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    They seem to have pulled the link, but the screen grab is still on our website.
    This link still works: http://dev.hasselblad.com/promotions/h4x.aspx#

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Hmm, H4X, IQ back, HTS adapter and 28mm & other prime lenses ... That sounds like a decent landscape shooting outfit to me, even when accounting for the HTS crop on the 28mm. It would fill a quality T/S hole that Phase/Mamiya don't have answer for plus maybe a camera that doesn't have occasional hissy fits in the field.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    this is great and big news for sure.. and it will work wonders for Hasselblad not to mention that everyone will benefit... and the end user will finally have the choice to pick the best of all worlds..

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Hmmmm.
    I think this is great news for Blad users, and for MF in general.
    Not seen anything official yet but what I've seen suggests that this is only available as an upgrade for H1 and H2 users. If you have a H3 or H4, I guess this is tough luck.
    The pricing is also quite staggering from what I've heard, so its perhaps not quite Christmas. However, to those heavily invested in Blad glass, this will still be a great solution worth pursuing.
    I am curious to see how the 28 and 35-90 perform on the full frame sensors. Word from Blad is "some image corner quality degradation can be noticed in some
    cases". Yes, we know these lenses were designed to cover smaller sensors, but just how much compromise are we going to see in real terms?
    I guess we'll know soon enough. Exciting times....
    Siebel
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    True Focus, in the limited situations where it is useful
    Really Doug? I mean really?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Really Doug? I mean really?
    He simply can't help himself Ben.

    David

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    that's official in france as well...http://www.lesvictor.com/email/newsletter25102011.html

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    He simply can't help himself Ben.

    David
    Hello David:
    Care to comment on my questions above?
    Thanks.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Film, digital, phase, hts, HCD lenses? Thank you Hasselblad! The debate over whose camera system is better, can now be limited to the camera's themselves. The Hasselblad, is by far superior to the DF, (the introduction of dials would be cool though), and with Phase bringing out a new camera soon, this gives us great choices for MFD.

    David, do you know when production will be available?

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Hello David:
    Care to comment on my questions above?
    Thanks.
    Not before launch date!

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by David Grover / Hasselblad View Post
    Not before launch date!
    Understood!

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    what I've seen suggests that this is only available as an upgrade for H1 and H2 users

    this rumormill stuff always confuses me... does this mean I should start buying up old H1 and H2s for resale to Phase One MFDB users who want to ditch their Phamiya and have enough cash lying around to buy a used H body and the upgrade price to step up to H4X?

    Last edited by lowep; 25th October 2011 at 08:17.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    maybe the perfect time for Phamiya to come out with a Mamiya ZD-X that combines their MF body and DB in one unit...

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    what I've seen suggests that this is only available as an upgrade for H1 and H2 users

    this rumormill stuff always confuses me... does this mean I should start buying up old H1 and H2s for resale to Phase One MFDB users who want to ditch their Phamiya and have enough cash lying around to buy a used H body and the upgrade price to step up to H4X?

    this is what I read.. "The H4X provides a fantastic successor or an upgrade to your H1 or H2/HF body"

    so nothing to worry about.. Win Win situation for all MF Manufacturers and finally complete freedom of choice for the end user to look forward to..

    mind you, 80% of the industry is still using H1/H2 platform regardless of them being closed.. and obviously Hasselblad is aware of it and decided on H4X as H1/H2/H2F replacement..

    I mean great news.. just great!!! far better than if somebody told me you can have tomorrow LEAF/PhaseOne 100MP for 39,999.99 what would that accomplish..

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    maybe the perfect time for Phamiya to come out with a Mamiya ZD-X that combines their MF body and DB in one unit...

    Not sure i want a integrated setup but more important for the moment this
    will hopefully put a fire under someones butt and announce the new body like now. Do us a favor blow our socks off.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ...but more important for the moment this
    will hopefully put a fire under someones butt and announce the new body like now. Do us a favor blow our socks off.
    Patience, patience, Hasselblad will announce the camera of your dreams and blow your socks off in a day or two.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Patience, patience, Hasselblad will announce the camera of your dreams and blow your socks off in a day or two.
    Keith, I think Guy was chanting a prayer to the gods at PhaseOne, not Hasselblad.

    Kind regards,
    Derek

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Hey give us great choices right. That's really what counts.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    What would it take to modify a DF for h mount?
    -bob

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Just found that this is not a pure rumor but actually will be officially announced in a fey days.

    Now here comes the interesting aspects: while I had always argued for such a move of Hasselblad just to be able to use the great Phase backs on the H platform, meanwhile I could not care less. Want to know the reason why?

    Since LR3.5 supports fully Hasselblad RAW and lens corrections, there is no longer need to use Phocus, which was always kind of a game stopper for me. Thus I always had preferred a solution based on C1Pro, actually meaning Phase backs. But this was (and is) the only reason, as IQ wise I find Hasselblad backs at same IQ level as Phase backs. Now also the last limitations of Phocus have gone and I can enjoy full Hasselblad quality with LR3.5, which is at least as good (if not better for me) as C1Pro.

    So why now mount a Phase back on my Hasselblad camera? I don't think that makes sense finally

    But sure there will be number of people who prefer this solution.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by jecxz View Post
    Keith, I think Guy was chanting a prayer to the gods at PhaseOne, not Hasselblad.
    Derek, yes, I know, I was being a tad mischievous.

    Amusing though, all these Phase One users praying to the gods for deliverance from the dreaded DF and when it comes it's from the wrong manufacturer.

    Keith

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    Derek, yes, I know, I was being a tad mischievous.

    Amusing though, all these Phase One users praying to the gods for deliverance from the dreaded DF and when it comes it's from the wrong manufacturer.

    Keith
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    In all honesty the DF is not a game stopper at all but a new body would certainly be helpful with some new and improved features. Glass wise I have no desire to change at all from the LS lenses and some of the Phase name lenses. If Phase owners want anything it would be a refresh on the body. Very few complaints if any from the other parts of the system. I really have no desire to go Hassy on the camera/lens solution but I am glad for the industry and others that a choice is available.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    I, for one, jumped off of the Phase bandwagon to avoid using the DF body (I'm probably in a very small minority, though.) I really like Phase backs, but the body just didn't work for me and how I like to shoot.

    Kurt

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I've always strongly suspected that there was no technical reason the improvements of the H3/H4 required pairing the back to the body nor required actively disabling functionality when a third party back was placed on the body. True Focus, in the limited situations where it is useful, is a great idea, and the HC28mm and HC35-90mm will be welcome additions to the inventory of rental houses and photographers who use their H system with a Phase back. None of that required Hassy to become a closed system.

    The only technical improvement they gained by requiring body-back pairing was a decrease in tolerances for back/viewfinder focus registration. And this is something that is just as easily accomplished by lowering the acceptable tolerances in the body and back and offering free service to anyone who purchases and feels their registration is not spot on.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    "True Focus, in the limited situations where it is useful, is a great idea"

    i find the "limited situations" to be every time i shoot people !! (not so important i agree when shooting things that dont move..) true focus is truely awesome

    Andrew

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    Hasselbald H4X only available as H upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by JSK Rangefinder View Post
    this is what I read.. "The H4X provides a fantastic successor or an upgrade to your H1 or H2/HF body"

    so nothing to worry about..
    this is what I read on the Hasseblad H4X website this morning (my red highlight):

    "Can I buy the new H4X body without a trade in?

    The new H4X camera is designed to upgrade the functionality of the current H1, H2 and H2F camera users only. To exchange the new camera it is required that the old H1/H2/H2F camera is returned to Hasselblad. It will not be possible to buy this camera, but only trade-in. If you are an H3D customer, you can not exchange that camera for a new H4X trade-in camera.
    "

    there goes the neighborhood...
    Last edited by lowep; 27th October 2011 at 04:20.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Have to say that is pretty limiting and can't come up with a good reason why. It really does not bring a ton of revenue in or maybe better said if they actually sold it in a open market it would be a far better revenue maker as it would give 3rd party backs a platform option. Than locking out your own customers is kind of silly let them upgrade. Great idea bad implementation unless I'm reading this wrong.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Start scouring all the buy sells for "user" or "for parts" bodies.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew wuttke View Post
    i find the "limited situations" to be every time i shoot people !! (not so important i agree when shooting things that dont move..) true focus is truely awesome
    Rumour has it that True Focus was specifically designed for Guy Mancuso.

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Heck I don't need to focus its all zen at this point. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Seriously all I want is a 5 point AF system. Not even that just 3 spread out enough
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    "its all zen at this point"

    Crikey, looks like while I was sleeping a new MFDB manufacturer nobody had ever heard of before took over the whole market?

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Don't say that kind of thing to Guy! He'll want to buy it, find out that it doesn't exist, his body will be caught up in a paradox cortex and the result will not be pretty.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: Hasselbald H4X only available as H upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    this is what I read on the Hasseblad H4X website this morning (my red highlight):

    "Can I buy the new H4X body without a trade in?

    The new H4X camera is designed to upgrade the functionality of the current H1, H2 and H2F camera users only. To exchange the new camera it is required that the old H1/H2/H2F camera is returned to Hasselblad. It will not be possible to buy this camera, but only trade-in. If you are an H3D customer, you can not exchange that camera for a new H4X trade-in camera.
    "

    there goes the neighborhood...
    I am not concerned at all.. this proves that the number of H1/H2 Cameras out there is huge compared to what Hasselblad is able to deliver/build for immediate replacement..

    obviously, once they reach production number available for sale this approach will change and it will get back to normal..

  45. #45
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    so, if you need to buy a H4X, then you have to buy an hold H before...

    http://www.objectif-bastille.com/epa...Products/42160

  46. #46
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Any ideas of the cost for the upgrade yet?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    It is on the Hasselblad website under " promotions" :-)

  48. #48
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    So why now mount a Phase back on my Hasselblad camera? I don't think that makes sense finally
    Why? How about long exposures? [PhaseOne backs other than the Dalsa-chipped ones]. Of course you may never shoot like that, but lots of folks do.

    Ray

  49. #49
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    Re: Hasselbald H4X only available as H upgrade?

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post
    "It will not be possible to buy this camera, but only trade-in".
    Someone please explain the logic of this to me. This was a perfect opportunity to actually increase the number of Hasselblad users, drawing in afficionados of PhaseOne, Sinar, Leaf or film backs, attracted by a new no-restrictions camera and lenses package.
    And instead Hasselblad say: "No, f*ck off, we don't want you!"

    Ray

  50. #50
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    Re: Rumormill: Hasselbald H4X

    please explain the logic of this to me

    In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king

    Desiderius Erasmus quotes (Dutch Priest, Humanist and Editor of the New Testament, 1469-1536)

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