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Thread: Media Pro anyone?

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Media Pro anyone?

    I am SO over the way C1 stores files: I just upgraded to Lion and in the process decided to rationalise my Phase One files, and after three hours in C1 (some folders have trash, some don't, but rely on the session trash: some folders are nested and some aren't: I have never understood (and yes I know it's totally obvious but I know it confuses the hell out of most people) the difference between sessions and folders - and now some folders contain files that won't open, despite still existing, and can't be moved.

    Grrr. I accept full responsibility for my failings but after several years of trying to get to grips with C1's habit of littering stuff everywhere and then making it hard to find, delete or sometimes use I give up. BUT I do so value its image rendering. SO, have been thinking of buying Media Pro.

    Does anyone use it? Like it? Rate it? Please share!

    Thanks
    Tim

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I just started using it recently. The cataloging is totally independent of file structure which is quite helpful. It also means you can carry your catalogue with you on a laptop, sort, rate etc., and that will mirror back when you connect to your storage device.

    I also very much like the C1 type interface and integration.

    I used a 30% off coupon off the Capture Integration site.

    Cheers...

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Capture Integration has been evaluating Media Pro for a good while now. The 1.0 and 1.01 versions were pretty buggy (as anyone who has ever used a 1.0 version of anything would expect). 1.1 has just been released that is said to address most of the issues we've encountered. I'm looking forward to testing it in the coming weeks.

    We are hosting a Media Pro Workshop coming up in Atlanta with Peter Krogh. To be honest this is as much for us (Capture Integration) as it is for our users. Peter is the world-leading expert instructor on Media Pro (formerly iView) and while I've become a power user over the last few months I am not as fascile and comfortable with it as I am with Capture One.

    My main gripe (aside from several bugs) I had with the 1.01 version was the slow speed/responsivity when using the Capture One rendering engine. This option is the holy grail of catalog/archiving for Capture One users - you can see the image WITH the adjustments from C1 (without having to process the image). However the slowdown this option caused made it very hard to stomach in real-world use. I'm looking forward to seeing how much, if any, this has improved in version 1.1.

    As of two weeks ago before 1.1 was released I would have told you Media Pro was a GREAT idea which was a GREAT investment for Phase One but was not ready for most end users to jump on board. In the coming weeks our testing/evaluation of 1.1 along with expertise gained from working with Peter will tell us if it's there yet or still needs more time.

    The hardest part of this question is what to tell those who currently don't have a cataloging solution they are happy with. I'm pretty confident that in the near future MP will be my prefered recommendation, even if it wasn't as of version 1.01. Catalogs are truly long-term comittments/investments; you can't make your decision based soley based on what's working best today (though that's obviously a very important factor) but must consider where your needs will be in a few years and what software/company is most likely to be provide for those needs.

    Sorry if this post provides less definitive suggestions than most of my posts. If it comes across as somewhat undecided I think that's an accurate reflection of my current stance.

    Having advised you honestly on where we come down (or dont' come down) on Media Pro I would be retiscent if I didn't link you to our instructions to Buy Media Pro through us at a discount from the normal price.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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  4. #4
    BCMielke
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I had the old Expression Media product and I liked it. It was quite quirky on some things that just didn't work in my workflow so I ended up dropping it. I still have the CD somewhere I think.

    I don't know about the new Capture One product. though.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Doug -

    Much appreciate your straightforward assessment of a difficult topic. Gives one some confidence you are thinking hard about this.

    Thanks,

    Geoff

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Ditto to Geoff - Lord, the world needs more dealers like Doug!

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I just wish I could get it to work - hangs up once it's loaded a hundred or so images. I've reloaded and done all the usual commonsense things but no dice.

    It's not ready yet - at least for me - on any of my computers.

    Bill

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I just wish I could get it to work - hangs up once it's loaded a hundred or so images. I've reloaded and done all the usual commonsense things but no dice.

    It's not ready yet - at least for me - on any of my computers.

    Bill
    Is that with 1.01 or 1.1?

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    This may be an alternative, if you are currently using PhotoMechanic:

    http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/con...=7-11666-12050

    JOhn

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    How about Aperture? I use it for both RAW processing and DAM, but the DAM half is excellent. I used to use C1, but the file management drove me crazy. I had to write scripts to hunt down and delete unwanted files.

    Best,

    Matt

  11. #11
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I'll be honest, a simple file folder import strategy with photomechanic handling the tagging/ingesting works very well for me. It's lean, fast, comprehensive, and does a great job of allowing me to quickly browse/search my images.

    PM is not quite as useable with my MF files for quickly checking focus as they have no embedded jpeg previews (I can't go through quickly and check focus on files), but as far as speed, functionality, and simplicity for importing/tagging... it is great.

    As a Lightroom/Photoshop user, I ingest/tag with photomechanic (which allows me to work in LR at the same time on a separate project). I quickly edit-in artistically in PM by tagging keepers instantly by pressing "1" for keepers. I then create individual catalogs with those keepers for individual shoots in LR and then do major tonal work within LR, then jump to PS if needed for retouching and "hand work". All three work in tandem very nicely and only do what they are best at. They play nicely together and offer a level of efficiently STABLE integration I've not been able to find elsewhere. With the latest ACR/LR version, image quality is right up there with the other converters IMO.

    For bread and butter portrait work... I can be from ingest to online proofs in very little time.

    If your folder storage structure is illustrative enough... finding a particular shoot simply using spotlight in OS X is easy enough.

    We are so spoiled.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    How about Aperture? I use it for both RAW processing and DAM, but the DAM half is excellent. I used to use C1, but the file management drove me crazy. I had to write scripts to hunt down and delete unwanted files.

    Best,

    Matt
    Thanks for the suggestion Matt - I tried Aperture and thought it very good but settled in the end on Lightroom for all cameras apart from Phase. Probably the best option is to import all Phase files into LR for DAM and then roundtrip the ones I want to print to C1... but I am with you on the 'drove me crazy' bit. What I really dislike is the sense that it's all very logical but that one is too think to understand the process. And yet very few people seem to understand it!


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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Is that with 1.01 or 1.1?
    Doug, I have 1.0.1.

    It shows all the files in "List" but won't show the thumbnails - just seems to load a few (it likes JPGS!) then hangs up. It's the same on my Mac Pro and my MacBook Pro. (10.5.8)

    I see from Phase's User Forum that I'm by no means alone. I've gone back to LR for cataloguing but of course it isn't linked to P1 (my favorite!) like MP is - or should be!

    I guess I'm going to have to wait for 1.2.....

    Bill

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Grrr again. I was trying to find out how to apply one rating to several images today: I tried selecting them all then applying a rating, which doesn't work. So I tried copying the rating from one and applying to the others and that doesn't work either. So I thought to check the Help. No dice. So I thought to download the user guide and unbelievably the Phase website doesn't have a user guide for C1 version 6. I mean.... really.

    Does Media One allow space age features such as this I wonder?

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    ... have been thinking of buying Media Pro.
    Does anyone use it? Like it? Rate it? Please share!
    I used what became Microsoft Expressions Media Pro for several years prior to Microsoft acquiring it. It was a good catalog keeper ... but then Microsoft bought it and from that point it wasn't looking as if they were going to enhance it much for Mac OS X.

    Right about then, Adobe released Lightroom and I switched to it as my primary cataloging and image processing workflow tool. It's much more useful for my photo work than Media Pro is.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    If anyone viewing this thread is in the NY area we are holding a RAW Workflow with Capture One & Media Pro event hosted by Peter Krogh as well. There is a two hour evening seminar on Wednesday November 16th from 7:00pm to 9:00pm and then on Thursday, November 17 a full day intensive hands-on workshop.

    More info is available HERE

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Grrr again. I was trying to find out how to apply one rating to several images today: I tried selecting them all then applying a rating, which doesn't work. So I tried copying the rating from one and applying to the others and that doesn't work either. So I thought to check the Help. No dice. So I thought to download the user guide and unbelievably the Phase website doesn't have a user guide for C1 version 6. I mean.... really.

    Does Media One allow space age features such as this I wonder?
    There is an icon of three rectangles stacked on top of each other in the top right that you have currently set to Gray (inactive) meaning only the primary selected image will be rated/moved/deleted/copy/paste. Simply click that box and it will turn to orange. Then when you select a group of images and rate/move/delete/copy/paste it will apply to all selected images.

    Trust me when I say once you get deep in C1 workflow that having that icon there to turn on/off adjust-multiple is EXTREMELY handy. But I realize it's hair-pulling when you don't know it's there!

    The default is for that icon to be active. So at some point you must have clicked it off accidentally/incidentally.

    Capture One 6 User Manual:
    http://www.phaseone.com/en/downloads/captureone.aspx

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Last edited by dougpeterson; 28th October 2011 at 06:11.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Doug, I have 1.0.1.

    It shows all the files in "List" but won't show the thumbnails - just seems to load a few (it likes JPGS!) then hangs up. It's the same on my Mac Pro and my MacBook Pro. (10.5.8)

    I see from Phase's User Forum that I'm by no means alone. I've gone back to LR for cataloguing but of course it isn't linked to P1 (my favorite!) like MP is - or should be!

    I guess I'm going to have to wait for 1.2.....
    Is there a typo here? (lots of 1s and 0s so it would be easy to understand!)

    You say you have 1.0.1. I was asking if you've tried 1.1?

    To be clear I've only just begun testing 1.1 so I can't yet meaningfully comment on stability/bugginess of 1.1 vs. 1.0.1.

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    That was it - thanks Doug, I was tearing my hair out! And thanks for the link to the manual: Phase should really think about putting it at their documentation download page for C1 in the Support area of their site... and I know you have their ear! it's at

    http://www.phaseone.com/en/SupportMa...anuals_CO.aspx

    Best
    Tim


    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    There is an icon of three rectangles stacked on top of each other in the top right that you have currently set to Gray (inactive) meaning only the primary selected image will be rated/moved/deleted/copy/paste. Simply click that box and it will turn to orange. Then when you select a group of images and rate/move/delete/copy/paste it will apply to all selected images.

    Trust me when I say once you get deep in C1 workflow that having that icon there to turn on/off adjust-multiple is EXTREMELY handy. But I realize it's hair-pulling when you don't know it's there!

    The default is for that icon to be active. So at some point you must have clicked it off accidentally/incidentally.

    Capture One 6 User Manual:
    http://www.phaseone.com/en/downloads/captureone.aspx

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I probably should have mentioned that they've switched to using an online wiki-style "manual/help".

    http://help.phaseone.com/en/CO6

    These are much easier to make small updates to than a 200 page PDF and just as (if not more) useful.

    That switch is likely why they've neglected to place their downloadable PDF on the "documentation" page (the reason - not an excuse). I've emailed them to point it out and I assume it will be addressed in the near/mid future.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Doug, thank you for 1.1 - I hadn't seen that it existed. I downloaded it today and so far it works fine!

    Now, and I fear I know the answer to this, is there any way to transfer keywords applied in LR to MP?

    Bill

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Doug, thank you for 1.1 - I hadn't seen that it existed. I downloaded it today and so far it works fine!

    Now, and I fear I know the answer to this, is there any way to transfer keywords applied in LR to MP?
    If you use LR's "Metadata->Save Metadata to file..." command on TIFF, DNG, PSD or JPEG files, Media Pro should pick up the keywords as they are IPTC standard and stored in the image file per the standards based IPTC format.

    Transferring keywords for native format raw files is tricker ... I don't think Media Pro can read the .XMP sidecar files that are generated for native raw formats so even saving the metadata out to disk doesn't give Media Pro access to it.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Thanks Godfrey - at least this transferred most of my keywords to MP so now I just (!) have to apply them to my 1000s of pix!

    MP 1.1 is working very well with C1.

    Bill

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I too bought MP with the 30% discount but haven't got around to using in anger. That is next project for the coming month or so - keywording in most time efficient manner (hints readily accepted).

    Meanwhile I updated to MP1.1 having been away shooting for a week and having sone so, found that the orientation information has been disregarded, with nearly all images (but not all of them) appearing as Landscape in the viewer and same when looked at in media viewer.

    Any idea please how I can get MP to correct this please. Am sure it's a preference or something, but haven't found anything so far on MP help menu.

    Another observation, Phase One's change to Online help is retrograde when shooting in a location with no internet access...

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Grrr again. I was trying to find out how to apply one rating to several images today: I tried selecting them all then applying a rating, which doesn't work. So I tried copying the rating from one and applying to the others and that doesn't work either. So I thought to check the Help. No dice. So I thought to download the user guide and unbelievably the Phase website doesn't have a user guide for C1 version 6. I mean.... really.

    Does Media One allow space age features such as this I wonder?
    The 'manual' and the 'wiki' for C1 are barely OK - just a list of commands and 1,2,3 steps. The videos on U-Tube are better, but of course they are stuck on U-Tube so you need an internet connection to watch them. Capture-U? Give me a break - that's little better than staring at a series of PowerPoint slides. Lu-La guide to C1? Barely scratches the surface...the section on B&W conversion in particular is a joke.

    When there are a-million-and-one books out there on each and every application from 'hacking your toaster oven' to 'building a super computer' it remains one of life's mysteries why no one has written the equivalent of, say, Martin Evening's excellent 'Lightroom' series of books for C1.

    Is it too much to ask for a comprehensive guide to C1 that I can browse away from my computer/ipad/iphone/igiveup, and away from the internet?

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by baxter View Post
    Any idea please how I can get MP to correct this please. Am sure it's a preference or something, but haven't found anything so far on MP help menu.
    You need to turn off the options for using embedded thumbnails. There are two: Preferences->Media Rendering:
    Engine: Phase One
    Use Embedded Previews: OFF

    Edit->Thumbnails and Previews:
    Use Builtin Thumbs: OFF

    Quote Originally Posted by baxter View Post
    Another observation, Phase One's change to Online help is retrograde when shooting in a location with no internet access...
    Yes that sucks. We use Wiki's a lot at work and for safety we use Firefox and ScrapBook to keep a copy of important stuff offline. Sub-optimal.

    Paul

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Thanks Paul - those are the settings I had set, so it must be some other problem.

    It seems inconsistent in how much a folder is affected. Some more than others. Doesn't seem related to file types, jpg, DNG, NEF and IIQ are all affected similarly. I really don't fancy trawling through thousands of images and setting manually. Something definitely changed in the move from MP1.01 to MP1.1

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Ah, if you change the images in COne after the initial import into MPro, MPro won't do anything. You need to manually rebuild. You can do this to a bunch of images at once, but it's confusing.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Thanks again Paul.

    I haven't changed anything in COne, or anything else, some images are from 2007 and haven't been touched since then! Simply upgraded to MP1.1 and used existing catalogue.

    Don't want to Hijack Tim's thread. Think I need to create a support case.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Baxter, hijack away! It's all part of the fun.. And good luck with this.

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    OK, more help please!

    My thumbnails show perfectly in MP, with all the corrections made in CI - EXCEPT any crops. In other words, all the work I do in C1 shows up (such as B&W conversion etc) except the full original uncropped image appears in the MP thumbnail, regardless of thumbnail size.

    Are the thumbnails supposed to be this way, and if not, what am I missing? Please note that this is only the thumbnails - if I switch to "Media" the correct cropping appears.

    Any input gratefully received!

    Bill

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Well I just downloaded and tried the trial version of Media Pro 1.1 and...

    Hmmm.. looks nice, and it's very useful finally to be able to see all my Phase images in one place BUT... as for the 'integration'... it doesn't seem even to run as far as importing my ratings, let alone accurate thumbnails that reflect things such as crop and white balance. It also seems very slow, very not intuitive and the Help is usual Phase One standard. I will continue to try to delve but first impressions are that it'll be genuinely useful in a few versions time...

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I need to get better at rating my pictures. There is no immediate rush however as MP isn't registering those that have received a rating. It does appear to be showing image crop Bill, even if some of them are in the wrong orientation. Latter has now been submitted as a support case. Their first suggestions didn't clear the issue. Will report any positive progress on this matter.

    Maybe I will hang on for another version before investing time in the cataloguing....

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    So, Baxter, I conclude that my thumbnails SHOULD show the crops done in C1.

    Well, I've tried playing with every setting on MP and C1, on both my MacBookPro and MacPro. ALL the C1 settings are transferred to the Media file setting - and all except the crops to the thumbnail.

    It's as if there should be setting "Thumbnail to reflect Media file"!

    Anybody else having this problem?

    Bill

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Yup. But I can't get ratings to make
    it from C1 to MP either... Can you?

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    No problem with ratings coming through. Have you set Preferences->Image->Metadata->Autosync Sidecar = Full Sync? I also have the two check boxes below turned on as that's what was set in the video.

    In MP, my thumbnails also show changes, but not the crops. I can see a few images rotated. Odd!

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    I will give that a try - thank you! It is very Phase like to not have that set of preferences set by default and to not have anything useful about it in the Help. They really need to think hard about what constitutes 'intuitive' and what constitutes a proper Help system methinks...

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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Well, I went through the tutorials again too, and did something right because - finally - I have all 15,000 thumbnails in my first catalogue showing all changes in C1 including crops and proper orientation.

    Trouble is, I'm not sure what I did! But I can send screen shots of the various preference settings in C1 and MP to anyone who wants them. Just PM me.

    Bill

  39. #39
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Hi Bill, thanks for the tips: I am getting there slowly but Lord is this piece of software a pre-beta standard. I certainly won't pay for it when my trial ends (I have, for example, just narrowly missed trashing every Phase image I ever shot on the misunderstanding that I was ditching a catalog file in order to start again!).

    I very, very strongly suggest to anyone thinking of getting this software to
    a)Try before you buy
    b)Make a full backup of your system before you try
    c)Lay in whisky/Valium in large quantities before you start
    d)Realise that nothing about it is intuitive and that if you proceed as if it were, you might do you files or your emotional wellbeing some damage!
    e)Prepare to love the glimpses of what it might one day be able to do whilst marvelling at Phase's ability to raise capital for R&D from its customers.

    It is, IMHO, nothing short of shocking that they put this out there as paid release, without serious health warnings on the packet, and without having 'out of the box' settings that do what the great majority of users probably want, which is to make sense of the files that have been developed in Capture One. It not only crashes itself, but appears to cause C1 to crash and even seems to interfere seriously with Safari.

    But having said all that, I do think it holds great promise but its features really need to be integrated INTO C1, rather than as a separate product. The model set by iPhoto, Aperture and Lightroom is, I think, popular for good reasons....

  40. #40
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    Bill Caulfeild-Browne's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Is that with 1.01 or 1.1?
    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hi Bill, thanks for the tips: I am getting there slowly but Lord is this piece of software a pre-beta standard. I certainly won't pay for it when my trial ends (I have, for example, just narrowly missed trashing every Phase image I ever shot on the misunderstanding that I was ditching a catalog file in order to start again!).

    I very, very strongly suggest to anyone thinking of getting this software to
    a)Try before you buy
    b)Make a full backup of your system before you try
    c)Lay in whisky/Valium in large quantities before you start
    d)Realise that nothing about it is intuitive and that if you proceed as if it were, you might do you files or your emotional wellbeing some damage!
    e)Prepare to love the glimpses of what it might one day be able to do whilst marvelling at Phase's ability to raise capital for R&D from its customers.

    It is, IMHO, nothing short of shocking that they put this out there as paid release, without serious health warnings on the packet, and without having 'out of the box' settings that do what the great majority of users probably want, which is to make sense of the files that have been developed in Capture One. It not only crashes itself, but appears to cause C1 to crash and even seems to interfere seriously with Safari.

    But having said all that, I do think it holds great promise but its features really need to be integrated INTO C1, rather than as a separate product. The model set by iPhoto, Aperture and Lightroom is, I think, popular for good reasons....
    I agree fully with your last comment! (And I like the rest too!)
    Bill

  41. #41
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    When/where available a full-day class wouldn't hurt :-)

    http://www.captureintegration.com/20...nar-media-pro/

  42. #42
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: Media Pro anyone?

    Buddy, it has got to hurt less!

    ;-)

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