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Thread: looking to go technical

  1. #1
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    looking to go technical

    got: a p65+
    want to get into technical camera work on the "cheap" (a very relative adjective here!)
    goal: architectural work at around 23mm range

    saw a linhoff techno at Photo expo today and fell in love.. but the $8k for just the camera is just too much. same with Alpa.
    any options for camera and lens around $3k?

    eric

  2. #2
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Well regardless of body the lenses start around 2600 up and not sure how you will get past that. Maybe the least expensive lenses right now is the older 24XL since it will not work on several backs. Might have trouble with the P65 something that needs confirming but this lens seems to have fallen out of the lime light. The least expensive body with movements will be the Cambo, Arca and Alpa with movement bodies are priced higher. Stay under the 3 k mark is a real challenge. Your only real option will be used
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    I think a used Cambo WDS body can be had for under $1000, the camera plate maybe $600 and a 35mm lens for maybe $2000, or a total of around $3600 give or take -- and that's about the cheapest you can get into tech. Upside to buying into the older Cambo WDS is that the lens panels and camera plates fit the newest WRS body.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  4. #4
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    thanks - what would be minimum I could get away with?
    Eric

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Thanks Jack forgot about the WDS I think CI has them for 1k not sure if that includes a plate though.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    thanks - just saw Jack's response. You two rock. thanks.
    best place to look to buy (I assume here?)
    Eric

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    will check with Doug Peterson.
    Doug you lurking?

    Eric
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thanks Jack forgot about the WDS I think CI has then for 1k not sure if that includes a plate thoug

  8. #8
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    of course now I want liveview..sigh. Was just thinking the P65+ was enough.

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    Re: looking to go technical

    wide <ds with plate ... 990$
    it can't be cheaper !

    http://www.captureintegration.com/st...backs/#openbox

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    Re: looking to go technical

    Me too!

    Before I jump off this cliff, I made the decision to spend the money on a workshop.

    Hmmm ..... one just announced here.

    The chief enabler send me a mail saying that with registration a tech camera and a back in the IQ-60 range + lens for the week will be part of the workshop. ( My lowly P30+ will have corner issues ) I'm not sure if I could rent one for a week and cover the travel for the cost of the workshop, if I were to do it on my own. So I have it justified as a real value.

    When talking about spending in the low to mid 10s of thousands, 5K to check it out for a week seems well worth it to me. I've never done this kind of shooting before, so to even think about doing it well, I would need some classes even if I were to only stick with the Mamiya. My guess is that much like my studio work, seeing the image is more than 1/2 the battle, the other bits are just technical, and can be easily taught. Thus the workshop.

    That's just my thinking though ....

    Dave

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Your a brilliant thinker Dave. Lol

    Honestly it truly is being a way to understand it all, shoot it,learn it and make a informed decision on it. On top of all that you will have a blast.

    We actually have 2 folks signed up in the same position which to me is absolutely wonderfully. I love it and love to teach it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  12. #12
    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: looking to go technical

    Dave

    I am in the exact same position as you and have a good friend locally who is trying to give me all sorts of advice as well. He is a Hassy shooter and has some items he is trying to convince me to buy. He shoots tech too Arca I think and said that each has its own purpose and I need to decide what I primarily will use the camera for.

    His suggestion was to try tech before buying as it is not for everyone and takes some getting used to but if you like it, then you will grow to love it (and spend quite a bit on it too)

    I am looking forward to the workshop as I know I will learn a great deal

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    Re: looking to go technical

    Quote Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
    will check with Doug Peterson.
    Doug you lurking?
    Always. :-)

    But I don't have a clue in the world about pricing. As Head of Technical Services I just learn how to make everything work right; someone else has to pay for it!

    In all seriousness I try to some practical extent to stay price-agnostic. My job is to know exactly how well everything works, how to get the best out of it, and what to do when it doesn't work. Obviously I know which lenses are in what general price categories, but the less I get involved with that the more I can focus on the technicals.

    I'd suggest calling our main office or calling/emailing your preferred salesman (Steve, Chris, Dave, or Jim) if you already know / work with one. They are the ones who spend every day working out trade-in deals, bulk-purchases, upgrades, promotions, currency-flucation, purchasing kits and breaking them up, rotating demo equipment, negotiating to get refurbs and surplus inventory, buying from dealers going out of business, bundling, payment methods and terms, and all the other tricks of the trades to find the most cost effective way to get reliable high-quality equipment to our customers. They are also the ones with more a mind for quality/price "value".

    I can tell technically you the 35XL is a great lens for 6.8 and 9 micron backs and a good lens for 6 micron backs; it's pretty questionable as a main-stay lens for a 5.2 micron back. (cast/angle-of-incidence issues not sharpness issues). It's also very compact, even with the center filter, and provides very good range of movement for it's focal length.

    I can tell you the WDS is a fine entry-level tech camera. It's movements require a lock (they are not self-arresting) which is somewhat slower to work with especially for vertical movements (which are fairly rare) and the lens moves for rise/fall which means stitching shots in a vertical manner (which again is fairly rare) can be problematic (as the perspective of the camera changes); a geared center column on the tripod or software solutionscan largely overcome that but it isn't ideal. It's also larger than an RS in pack size. Otherwise it's just a well-made metal plate like any other tech camera. Any of the cambo tech cameras (Compact, DS, RS, RS-AE) can do tilt-and-swing simultaneously on most lenses (the very widest lenses cannot, though there is a strong argument to be made that you don't need swing/tilt on ultra-wides), and have interchangable lens panels (meaning you could add an RS, or Compact, to your kit in the future and not have to buy new lens panels). You'll want to consider based on your budget and needs if you need the ultra-fine-focusing provided by the Arca (meaning you can focus at exactly 12.3 feet versus just "around 12 ft"). Considering the budget you seem to be on I think you'll find preset-hyperfocal distances and other focusing methods will be ok for 99% of your shots; there is also an option to retrofit an Alpa HPF onto a Cambo lens if you find you need very-fine focusing. But again I don't know much about your needs and personality/aesthetics/preferences play a big role. This is where a workshop hands-on is invaluable!

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Last edited by dougpeterson; 28th October 2011 at 06:10.

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    Re: looking to go technical

    Quote Originally Posted by Body-scenics View Post
    His suggestion was to try tech before buying as it is not for everyone and takes some getting used to but if you like it, then you will grow to love it (and spend quite a bit on it too)
    +1. Not for everyone (just like 4x5 wasn't for everyone) but the technical results and mechanical and tactile experience is truly extraordinary... Once you get past the initial steep learning curve.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Quote Originally Posted by Body-scenics View Post
    His suggestion was to try tech before buying as it is not for everyone and takes some getting used to but if you like it, then you will grow to love it (and spend quite a bit on it too)

    I am looking forward to the workshop as I know I will learn a great deal
    This is good advice. Some people really enjoy using a technical camera with all of the associated considered workflow that goes with it. To start with there are a myriad of things that you can get wrong and having a multi-day workshop with Jack & Guy will definitely put you on the fast track to getting efficient and effective with a technical outfit. I think that this is a great investment in both the workshop and also trying out some of the various options, lenses etc.

    I think that you'll find after the initial learning hump that you can get pretty efficient with a technical camera outfit both in static situations and even handheld for walkabout at times. A DSLR will always be faster and more flexible but I know that personally I enjoy using a technical camera more (but I'm only shooting for me, not on a deadline or with a need for guaranteed results).

    Enjoy the journey!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  16. #16
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Dave and Bryan , Graham will be with us also and other folks on the workshops also add to the value of learning from them and there experiences. This is one great aspect of workshops is the diversity of people and the learning curves they all have gone through or will go through. Makes it a lot of fun together. As Graham said it is a journey
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  17. #17
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: looking to go technical

    Hey Eric,

    I thought I'd mention the Silvestri Bicam, it looks like the Techno, works like the Techno and is way cheaper - there is one for sale here which actually belonged to me and which I enjoyed thoroughly before moving to the Techno. For the price, you cannot beat it, it has all the movements you'll need short of a full-fledged tech camera, works great and it's almost as well made as the Techno. I made all my US portfolio with that camera, you can see it here (all the photo with a white frame are Silvestri). Disclaimer, I have no affiliation whatsoever with NewOldcamera besides being a very happy customer - Ryuichi Watanabe, the owner, is one of the most knowledgeable guys I have ever met on all things photographic, his second-hand shop is full of all sort of goodies and his service is great (he offers one or two years of warranty no questions asked on all used items, which is pretty great if you ask me!). Hope this helps you in the quest for better and better IQ!
    Vieri Bottazzini
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